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3:00 PM
@KitZ.Fox As a forensic move, you have won. Rhetorically however, I can surely think up weirder things. "Friends Romans Countrymen, bla h blah blah. I come to bury placenta, not to praise it"
 
well, I did bury the placenta.
both times. I did not eat it.
 
@KitZ.Fox Good to know.
updates notes
 
Just that would have made the quotation funnier.
 
@tchrist Thanks for clearing that up. Here's a link from googling Ortolans: <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/11101187/Ortolans-coul‌​d-Frances-cruellest-food-be-back-on-the-menu.html>.
And on that rather tasteless note, I'm out, with apologies for the choice of food discussed. Nice chatting, everyone, and thanks @Wrzlprmft for dropping by ELU. See you all in the transcripts!
 
"I come to bury the placenta, not to eat it." See?
 
3:02 PM
@KitZ.Fox Everything is up for repeating and editing
 
@Lawrence see you
 
@KitZ.Fox I actually had that at first, but didn't want to go that far.
 
Oh.
I see.
 
@KitZ.Fox Hey, that’s also my favourite topic to end any conversation: Three weird things people do with placentas.
 
The second one will shock you!
 
3:03 PM
@Wrzlprmft um...three?
What is # 3?
 
I'd like to take a brief moment to mention that the existing moderators have no ability to affect the outcome of the election, so you needn't try bribery or cozening up to us with chat stars or anything like that.
 
@Mitch Drying, pulversing, diluting repeatedly in water until nothing is left, and drinking it.
 
@Mitch ... and before the light had changed to green, swarms of people started coming out of the local bars
 
And it was the world cup!
 
not even a trickle at first, just a steady swarm all over the street, ahead behind and to the sides.
and people were happy and shouting and running through the streets
 
3:06 PM
@KitZ.Fox have no ability to affect the outcome of the election – well, you can vote, can’t you?
 
and they even started rocking the car back and forth almost like they were going to tip it (we were slightly concerned).
So what color was the bear?
 
Golden!
 
@Mitch That’s why it’s very important to know the timetable, even if you do not care about the game at all.
 
@KitZ.Fox hah a yes exactly. world cup, they had won. scariest time of my life.
But strangely scarier than the time when I almost died.
 
Tell us about the time you almost died.
Or not, if you don't want to.
 
3:10 PM
@Wrzlprmft I do get a little anxious in late February at the grocery store thinking vaguely "Should I go now? I feel like it's going to be packed this Saturday for some unknown reason. Sunday? I don't know!"
@KitZ.Fox Oh there was this time I almost died. But strangely it was not as scary as this time I was in a car in the middle of a World Cup victory celebration. Man I thought they were going to tip the car and set it on fire. Can't blame them really. At least they were happy.
 
@KitZ.Fox that sounds about right. I can't find any hard stats.
 
There was this one time I almost died, but I ended up in the bushes in a park like a day later so it worked out OK.
Hi @MattE.Эллен!
 
@Wrzlprmft So is that what the manufacturing process is for all the supplements at a vitamin store?
 
We're trying to guess what issues the community will raise as concerns for the site once the election cycle begins.
 
3:13 PM
@KitZ.Fox It's always best to wait for the outcome before you judge.
@KitZ.Fox gah! it's the review cue. It's so depressing seeing it at above 200. But also how to balance that with not scaring away people who have something to contribute, but just don't know the rules?
To be honest, and honesty is needed, closing and deleting does give some satisfaction.
LIke you've done something.
 
@KitZ.Fox question and answer quality and people being rude are the biggest things, I think
 
like making a snarky comment about mispelling
 
Oh. But moderators don't really impact the review queue, do they?
 
@MattE.Эллен oops I think I touched on the rude one inadvertently
 
OK. That's something that moderators help set the tone for, I think.
 
3:17 PM
@KitZ.Fox well, ya know, actually, it's not so transparent (which would account for a lot of people's ire about the situation)
no names.
I have names though
resists urge to name names
 
Um, so what's the impression people have?
 
so there's a review queue and an entirely separate mod queue?
 
That we put all that work in there?
@Mitch Yes.
 
I don't know. I guess there must be some impact, because we can delete VLQ/NAA flagged posts, which are also in the review queues
 
how different are they?
 
3:18 PM
@Mitch Review queue has channels.
 
@MattE.Эллен so much of all this is so questionable.
 
Mod queue has filters, but is basically one big lump.
 
like some VLQ's are actually almost identical to highly upvoted ones. "Here's the single word you wanted" and it's obvious it is right.
@KitZ.Fox how long is that nowadays?
 
VLQ/NAA show up to us if they are disputed. I think they go to the review queue first and show up to us disputed or not if they are not handled within a certain time frame.
@Mitch How big is our queue?
 
It's all from flags right? not from single close notes, right?
@KitZ.Fox yeah
 
3:20 PM
@Mitch We don't see close votes.
Or delete votes. Unless they are on a flagged question.
 
close votes only show up on the review queue?
 
yes
we don't get the edit reviews either
 
so the mod queue is just flags?
 
@Mitch Around 70 right at the moment. It's a bellwether for needing moderators.
 
3:21 PM
@MattE.Эллен there are very few if ever edits
almost entirely suggestions to close
 
many of the flags are generated by Community◆
 
Hey @MattE it's probably OK to talk about what flags we have in the mod queue, do you think?
 
how do items get on the close queue? a single closevote from any user?
 
@KitZ.Fox in general, yes.
 
@Mitch I think so.
 
3:22 PM
@KitZ.Fox not what, but how many. so we non-mods have an idea of how much work you do ( so that people who want to nominate themselves can gauge properly)
 
there are more than enough flags for me to handle 20 per day every day
 
We see flags for posts and comments and also Community auto flags, like too many comments, lots of recent answers, disputed flags, which are indicators that we probably need to intervene.
I would want someone who felt they could handle 20-30 flags per day with thoughtfulness, which could range from 30 minutes to maybe 2 hours, depending on the flags.
 
Also, it's not always possible to handle (i.e. mark as done) any particular flag at the time it occurs. investigation can take time, and it's necessary to wait to see results of intervention (e.g. commenting on a low quality SWR answer)
 
Also someone who was decisive and kind and who would be good at warning and suspending users.
Because composing a single mod message can take considerable time.
And also someone who likes to monitor and respond to questions on Meta.
Oh, and someone who has time to float in moderator chat to keep up with what's happening stackwide.
And also, who can make time to have private chats with users as needed.
 
If they're on good terms with ELL, that would be a bonus
 
3:29 PM
And also other moderators, for if you need help or they need advice.
Actually, if they are already a mod, that could be an advantage -- except that EL&U is one of the larger stacks, so most of the non-trio mods would have less experience with large queues and working with other mods. Hmm.
But then they'd probably have a good idea of what the work is.
And the time commitment.
 
but if they're already a mod, they probably realize that being a second 'full'-time mod is kind of a lot.
 
Likewise, a person who is already a strong reviewer and involved daily with reading and editing, etc, would probably already being committing the necessary time.
The adjustment there is 1. binding effort and 2. changing tasks.
 
but committing that to review queue type work, which is not the same as mod work.
 
Right.
It's still queue work, and there are similarities, but there are differences too.
 
mod work seems more a bout being a facilitator, consigliere, argument dissipator...what's that legal role.. arbitrator.
 
3:33 PM
Well.
 
...than plain editing and close voting.
 
It's about being a moderator.
 
which are for quality of the text rather than quality of people attitudes/feelings.
 
But editing and leaving comments is part of the work, and that is review queue work. Meta activity is something anyone can participate in as well, and that's also moderator work. Chat room networking, etc, are shared things.
 
imagine if school janitors could give detentions
 
3:35 PM
@Mitch And to set an example.
 
@KitZ.Fox but that's what I'm trying to pull out, how it's kinda (a lot) different from handling the review queue
 
@Mitch I was joking, because you listed a bunch of words that are related roles.
 
@MattE.Эллен but mod powers aren't fancy janitor powers, they're just fancy school VP powers.
@KitZ.Fox ok but which powers then go with which role names?
yes, we've listed them.
 
You don't arbitrate so much as moderate.
 
though they're both 'meta' powers, they're not that similar.
 
3:37 PM
Keep it steady.
 
Steady?
checks blood sugar
notices lack of blood sugar checker
checks clock
 
That's what a mod does. Keeps things from going off the rails.
 
Wow...later than I thought.
@KitZ.Fox yes. So mods have an entirely separate queue of items that they can visit, and the actions they can take there/encouraged to take there are of a slightly different sort than actions on the review queue.
so if you really like doing the review queue...
 
@Mitch right.
guide and nuture.
 
well yes you probably will like doing the mod queue too, but they may be more involved and involve more direct communication with individuals, rather than the anonymous feel of the review queue.
 
3:41 PM
or as I like to do it: delete and discipline.
 
@KitZ.Fox Ban that guy!
He's getting uppity!
 
It's harder than it sounds.
 
In the nicest way possible.
 
It's probably the number one thing we discuss in the supersekrit room.
 
niceness fatigue.
 
3:42 PM
Because yes, we have one and yes, we talk about all of you in it.
 
@KitZ.Fox augh... you mentioned it again!
 
@Mitch No, there's two.
 
@KitZ.Fox cams down quickly
rethinks everything ever said
@KitZ.Fox Two places to talk about us?
places handcuffs on self
 
We can talk about you right here if you want.
 
attached to radiator
 
3:44 PM
There's a local EL&U mod room and then there is The Teacher's Lounge.
 
Don't torture Mitch. It's what he wants.
 
next to dog bowl of water and box of twinkies
 
See I know what really turns on a masochist.
 
#NotAllMasochists
 
I was going more for a briar patch thing.
#NotAllMascots
@MετάEd Hm...never would have thought it was Twinkies
maybe Oreos
 
3:46 PM
Oreos don't hurt anybody. They're vegan.
 
No, they aren't.
I couldn't eat them when I wasn't allowed to have dairy.
 
not since they changed the recipe to leave out the gerbils.
 
but the self aware oreos are vegan.
 
The other oreos? They're such neanderthals.
 
@KitZ.Fox According to the maker they are not made with dairy but are made in factories where other products are made with dairy, so there can be cross contamination.
 
3:49 PM
Oh. That must be it then.
 
To me that makes them vegan but not safe for a person with a dairy allergy. But there is no consensus about what makes something vegan so it's only my opinion.
 
Bee honey
 
Right, and yeast.
 
Yeast?
Wait...you're not kidding.
 
3:51 PM
bacteria too, for some, so no yogurt.
 
@MattE.Эллен Waht?
 
Yes, some vegans do not eat yeast.
 
And keep lions from eating gazelles
 
@Mitch I think I just Poed you.
 
@KitZ.Fox but... bacteria are literally everywhere. it must be impossible to avoid bacteria
@Mitch in some dialects
 
3:52 PM
@MετάEd hahaha I don't know what that means!
 
Gut bacteria are part of the eating process. It doesn't have to make sense, though. It's a matter of opinion.
 
@MετάEd true
 
@MattE.Эллен "I just clapped my hands...and destroyed millions"
 
@Mitch Genocidal maniac!
 
@MετάEd Antibiotics are literally against life!
 
3:53 PM
@Mitch It's just a bug. God will fix it eventually.
 
I've stopped lions from eating lots of animals... I ate the animals first. I'm doing them a favour
 
4:05 PM
You're an altruist and a scholar
 
tips fedora
m'lion
 
4:26 PM
rawr
 
4:39 PM
@TIPS This seems like an unlikely exploit to me. The issue at hand here is that these people want their messages to be seen, and unbumped posts won't get much attention from anybody, rather than just the mods.
Which isn't to say I'm ignoring the fact that it was used once...
But how much is fixing the problem worth?
 
5:33 PM
@Tonepoet No.
You're right that the spammer wants their content seen.
But when a smart spammer sees that their or their bot's post is deleted in seconds in sites like AU, their primary mission will be to ensure it remains there for longer.
@Tonepoet Potentially, much. Practically, not much since there haven't been such smart spammers.
The fix isn't an expensive one though.
And it doesn't take much dev time.
 
Is there a reason we don't bump deleted posts as is?
 
@Tonepoet Bumping and deleted posts do not lead the same way.
Most users are <10k.
(WTF, where is the activity that caused the bump?)
Also, the main purpose of the active page is to give people stuff to answer, and make them aware of new answers.
Nowhere of this is a mention of deleted (or moderated in any way) content.
 
So I have a question: Supposing that we implement that fix, and users can still undelete their posts, does that mean questioners will be able to undelete their otherwise legitimate questions to artificially bump them?
 
@Tonepoet My FR doesn't include bumping questions, Gilles's answer does.
And that, if implemented, would be abused way less than you think.
The only bumping users abuse is bumping caused by edits.
 
I must have missed your F.R.
 
5:48 PM
No one says "hey, let's get some rep by deleting this post and then undeleting it again".
But people like to make excuses like "I fix my typos all the time."
Furthermore, questions with upvoted answers can't be deleted by their author.
 
I just had an Uber ride with a young man from Chicago, and it got me wondering, what are the defining features of a Midwestern accent?
 
Slow, but not as slow as Southern.
 
@Tonepoet My FR is for the undeleted to appear in SE.com's real-time tab, where Smokey watches them.
 
Ah, I see.
 
@ktm5124 I must need coffee... that sentence rang in my head as the beginning of a limerick.
 
5:59 PM
That's a lot of syllables for the beginning of a limerick
 
@KitZ.Fox How about the intonation? American English has a narrower range of pitch than British English... I know that... but what about Midwestern accents?
 
Oct 3 '12 at 14:29, by MετάEd
May 23 at 14:44, by Mitch
There once was a man from Japan
whose limericks just wouldn't scan.
When asked why this was,
he answered, "Because
I always cram as many syllables into the last line as I possibly can.
 
Do Chicago accents have less pitch variation than New England accents?
 
That I cannot tell you.
Probably more pitch variation. I don't think we have much.
The vowels are I dunno, sloppier. Less British.
More rising?
 
@KitZ.Fox Somehow I filtered it down to Had a ride with a man from Chicago. Once that happened, it wouldn't go away :|
 
6:02 PM
Rounder sounds with no clicks in the stops?
@oerkelens I could see that.
 
Well I definitely know that British English has more ups and downs in intonation.
But this guy in the car had a very restricted register. Like he was talking in the same pitch the whole time.
I wonder what that's called? nasal speech?
 
@ktm5124 Aren't southern accents most often described as having a sort of drawl?
 
@Tonepoet I think I've heard that before.
Do Midwestern accents have a nasal quality?
 
I can believe that midwestern is nasal. I think of New York as nasal.
I can't really bring up Midwestern, aside from something like "Da Bearts" and Fargo.
Mike Ditka. No idea how typical or not that is.
 
What rhymes with Chicago?
 
6:12 PM
My kind of town
 
@MετάEd No idea
@KitZ.Fox Do you like Chicago?
 
@MετάEd go, Iago, fandango?
 
@ktm5124 Eh. It's OK. I didn't spend much time there. Evanston mostly.
 
@ktm5124 "No idea" doesn't rhyme
 
Iago, good one. And "lago" would work, except nobody would know it.
 
6:16 PM
impetigo?
 
Iago is a good one.
 
Need two rhymes to finish a limerick. Somehow gotta make "Iago" and "Doctor Zhivago" funny.
 
Well, Iago isn't really a good one.
 
@MετάEd You can totally do that.
archipel-ago.
 
Oooh.
 
6:17 PM
The emphasis is weird for rhyming that one though.
 
Except if you can make it part of the joke.
 
Key Largo?
 
Now how you can you make it part of the joke?
 
Non-rhotic Key Largo.
 
oops, my dialect is showing.
 
6:18 PM
@MετάEd What does rhotic mean?
 
Not swallowing your _r_s :P
 
I say 'Key Lahgo'. Non-rhotic.
 
@ktm5124 Rhotic is AmE and non-rhotic is BrE.
 
Hey. I take exception to that.
 
6:20 PM
Roughly.
I meant roughly.
 
Not all AmE is rhotic.
 
Of course not all AmE is . . . jinx
And not all BrE is non-rhotic.
 
And to be fair, I'm semi-rhotic. I think.
My dialect is not as strong as some folks 'round these parts.
I think.
 
And to be rhotic, I'm fairrr?
 
Imaging @Kit say "berserker"
 
6:21 PM
Because I will never hear my own idiolect.
 
@oerkelens everyoune knouws British is far superiour.
 
behsehrkeh
hmm. I get an r in before the k.
 
O_o
 
@TIPS It's the nice thing to do, letting them believe that :P
 
I bet it has to do with the um...whatever you call the thing with the k sound.
 
6:23 PM
I don't phonetic terminology
 
the ah?
 
Now I shall do an entire video of me whispering 'berserker' over and over.
 
No, it must be something like velar non-velar eccentric something.
 
I think maybe I hear the voicing of the k sound and my brain says it's an r.
 
Somethingicative
 
6:24 PM
not fricative, through.
 
@KitZ.Fox That somehow sounds more e-rhotic than (non-)rhotic
 
Uh. O-k.
Anything else you want to hear in my dialect?
Great, now it sounds like I'm trying to make an erotic video. That's not what I meant.
I do like the idea of whispering berserker though.
maybe with some crinkly paper.
 
Thinking now of the stuff the crown wanted Pilate to say in Life of Brian... though that was a different pronunciation of the r.
 
I am not saying Biggus Dickus.
OK, well, I gotta go. If you think of some words you like, just ping me.
 
I see, so a rhotic accent is one that pronounces 'r' wherever it appears.
What are some examples in BrE where the letter 'r' is not pronounced?
 
6:29 PM
Think Scottish, you'll get the idea :)
@ktm5124 See the beer can cartoon I posted.
 
@ktm5124 At the end of any syllable.
tur-tle
far-ther
there
scores
At the beginning of a syllable, it is always pronounced.
 
I see.
 
It's interesting how the r is extremely prone to variations in pronunciation, in many languages.
 
So in BrE, the word "fair" might be pronounced "fey"?
 
Yes, sort of.
 
6:33 PM
But with the slightest 'r' at the end, right?
 
Not an r, but a certain change in the preceding vowel
 
Or, something at the end that makes it distinct from "fey"
I see.
 
Yes.
 
And also in BrE, "berserker" might be pronounced without the r's?
 
ber-ser-ker
All at the end.
But I suspect Americans will often drop the first r, too?
 
6:35 PM
WHOA
 
@ktm5124 It's pronounced more like "fey-uh." Or "feh-uh." But squished in one syllable, not two. It's not a homophone to the words "fay" and "fey."
 
The British wouldn't pronounce ANY r's in the word berserker?
@Cerberus Is it more or less a rule of thumb, that in BrE, none of the r's at the end of a syllable are pronounced?
 
@ktm5124 They wouldn't pronounce any consonantal "r"s. British people perceive an "r" there, but the only phonetic realization is an alteration of the preceding vowel.
 
@ktm5124 Yes, in Received Pronunciation.
In other British accents, it is often pronounced.
Somehow, berserk works, but berserker does not.
But you can look up worker for comparison.
 
Also, if an "r" at the end of a syllable comes before a syllable that starts with a vowel, it can move to the start of the next syllable. And then it is pronounced. "Linking r."
 
6:41 PM
@Cerberus I see, thanks!
 
@sumelic Yup, so it is no longer at the end of a syllable.
Even across spaces.
And sometimes also...hypercorrectly? As in draring room.
 
@Cerberus It sounds like the British use r's differently than we do. For them, it changes the preceding vowel. For us, we just simply pronounce it.
 
haha
 
@ktm5124 Exactly. But only at the end of a syllable.
 
They would say the same.
 
6:43 PM
Nah.
 
@Cerberus Right, I should have qualified that point.
 
The Brits will agree that the American pronunciation would be more...logical.
 
@Cerberus And Americans would say, that the British are nearly as offensive as the French.
 
Just as I agree that the the rolling r is the ultimate r, the Platonic r, so to speak.
Even though I don't use it.
@ktm5124 Offensive?
 
Offensive in being illogical.
 
6:45 PM
I know Americans like to call things offensive.
 
I was joking.
 
Haha...I think.
 
I gave a bad delivery.
 
I was saying that the American r is more logical in this case, and that the Brits will admit this.
 
I was a little too excited to tell that joke, that I deliberated too much on how I would say it, and then butchered it.
Yeah, the American r is definitely more logical.
The British r is more artistic...
 
6:47 PM
Haha.
You tried.
That's what counts.
 
The reason we fall flat sometimes is to learn how to tell jokes properly.
Stupid reference to Batman: The Dark Knight. "We fall down so that we can learn to pick ourselves back up."
 
@Cerberus If you mean the Scots, they certainly shall.
 
@ktm5124 ?? There's a Chicago accent? It's as midwestern as anything which is really general American English.
?? Was it you driving or him? Or were you sharing the ride?
@oerkelens so so hungry
@KitZ.Fox But that's pretty rare. No one in the south is non-rhotic except some Gone with the Wind/Ashley Wilkes wannabe
 
7:13 PM
6
Q: Should "Why can we use inadequate but not 'inspecific'?" be reopened?

TonepoetI've been considering asking this question here on Meta-English Language & Usage for the past few days pursuant to help-center guidelines and after just having asked several users about it, have been encouraged to do so. So a question regarding the spelling (or more accurately the lack thereof) ...

Well done.
 
@Mitch How would you characterize the Midwestern accent?
 
Also @tips Thanks for the compliment.
 
Earned.
 
7:31 PM
I may have unfairly blamed Star Trek. I think the Vulcans say insufficient often and that's what I was remembering at the time. They're somewhat similar words, particularly with the ins and ci portions.
 
@tchrist And the others.
 
@Cerberus Well, the Scots are rhotic, with a vengeance some of them even.
 
I mean, no Dutchman would say it is logical not to pronounce the n at end of a word.
@tchrist The arrhotics will admit it too.
(We usually don't pronounce the n at the end of a word if the syllable is unstressed.)
(Many Dutchmen don't even realise this.)
 
Why? I find it extremely logical! And if I don't, my wife must think so!
 
Hah!
You're spoiling my argument!
 
7:45 PM
My wife is Dutch. Your argument is invalid?
 
It needed to be spoiled :P
 
You sound like...the French, who also refuse to pronounce several letters.
@TIPS I suspect they're both Dutch.
 
The French treat letters horribly.
@Cerberus IIRC @Oer is half-Dutch half-American now, however that may be possible.
 
Oh?
 
Half-American? Are you referring to the part of my brain that suffered from my alcohol abuse?
The French seem horrified at the idea of pronouncing any letters, however they miserably fail at being silent somehow...
 
7:47 PM
Fair enough.
 
Our general criteria for moderators is as follows:
And that for EL&U?
 
You be illin
 
A man is on his first visit to Boston, and he wants to try some of that delicious New England seafood that he'd long heard about. So he gets into a cab, and asks the driver, "Can you take me to where I can get scrod?" The driver replies, "I've heard that question a thousand times, but never in the pluperfect subjunctive."
 
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 white. The bear is white.
Was that the answer?
I have a similar one. The punchline is "Who do you think you are, Kant?"
 

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