English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Kitḫ

14:00

Jun 30 '11 at 15:18, by JSBangs

2 days ago, by aedia

@Kosmonaut "The effectiveness of tin foil hats is disputable [CITATION NEEDED]"

And two days later, another hysterical conversation ensued.

user19161

@Kitḫ Deja vu.

Kitḫ

That was Rhodri. I miss Rhodri too!

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting, good point, I'll participate in conversations in my free times

thanks.

Kitḫ

Jun 30 '11 at 15:18, by Kit

@JSBangs Get out of my head! pauses to rummage through drawer for copper foil

I guess it was JSB, actually.

But Rhodri was in on the conversation.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri We usually say free time instead of free times.

Matt Эллен

14:01

@Kitḫ indeed

Saeed Amiri

Oh right

Kitḫ

Also, @Saeed, keep in mind that we make very little sense most of the time.

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting, Do you know some interesting articles to improve my writing?

user19161

@SaeedAmiri And if you really want to practise you should capitalize and punctuate properly too.

Kitḫ

Aug 9 '11 at 0:51, by random

This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; the topic of this room is "aka The Incomprehensible Room" - conversation should be limited to that topic.

Saeed Amiri

14:03

@WillHunting, I'll try this.

Kitḫ

I will stop searching the transcript now.

Matt Эллен

oh will you?

Kitḫ

I should be w-rking.

Matt Эллен

me too

Kitḫ

Man, we've had some good times.

Matt Эллен

14:04

I spent a good portion of the morning searching for duplicates

Saeed Amiri

@Kit, what's the meaning of "w-rking"?

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Do you know you can click on the arrow on the right of the message you want to reply to to reply?

Matt Эллен

@SaeedAmiri Work is a dirty word here :)

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri "Working." We joke that it is a swear word.

user19161

Interesting how I wrote to reply to to reply.

Saeed Amiri

14:05

@WillHunting Seems great

user19161

@SaeedAmiri They intentionally bowdlerized work to achieve a comical effect.

Kitḫ

Or you could say that ^

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting what is "bowdlerized "?

user19161

@SaeedAmiri And clicking on the arrow on the left of the message links you back to the message that was replied to.

Kitḫ

"Bowdlerize" is a word that means "censor."

Saeed Amiri

14:06

I think I don't know too many things here :)

Matt Эллен

you'll get the hang of it in no time!

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Soon you will know our ways here.

Kitḫ

It is the proper name of a man (Bowdler) who was made infamous for censoring classical works.

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ Yeah, This is new word which uses here? Or is common among people?

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri Not new, but not common, except for educated people.

Saeed Amiri

14:07

@Kitḫ would you describe "Bowdler" more?

user19161

@SaeedAmiri dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/…

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri And here is the word history.

user19161

Thomas Bowdler

Thomas Bowdler (; 11 July 1754 – 24 February 1825) was an English physician and philanthropist, best known for publishing The Family Shakspeare, an expurgated edition of William Shakespeare's work, edited by his sister Henrietta Maria Bowdler, intended to be more appropriate for 19th century women and children than the original. Although early editions of the work were published with the spelling "Shakspeare", after Bowdler's death, later editions (from 1847) adopted the spelling "Shakespeare". The verb bowdlerise (or bowdlerize), has associated his name with the censorship not o...

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting Oh, I don't know too many vocabularies.

Kitḫ

He published Shakespeare with all the "naughty" bits taken out.

user19161

14:08

@SaeedAmiri You would say I don't have a large vocabulary.

Kitḫ

Or There are many words I don't know.

> "nothing is added to the original text; but those words and expressions omitted which cannot with propriety be read aloud in a family."

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ :)) Seems he was muslim :)

user19161

I use very simple words only myself. I learnt bowdlerize only in this room.

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting Thanks

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Muslim should be capitalized.

Kitḫ

14:10

@WillHunting Not necessarily.

Matt Эллен

Puritan, more likely

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting Yeah, I think by chatting here I can learn too many words and I can have a better writing with your hints.

Kitḫ

"omitted which cannot with propriety be read aloud" <— This means that he took out all the parts that might be too shocking for women and children.

user19161

@Kitḫ Though I usually do not capitalize hell.

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ I didn't read Shakespeare books, I just read some few poem of him.

user19161

14:13

@saeed I think you should just read anything you can to improve your English. Just borrow books from the library for example.

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting Yes I should do so. In fact I don't like learn language in academic way.

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri He wrote plays, but they are difficult even for native speakers to understand.

We study them in school.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri like learning language in an academic way

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting It's boring.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri You should not read Shakespeare to improve your English!

Kitḫ

14:15

Or I don't like to learn languages in an academic way.

@SaeedAmiri It can be. I agree.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri I was correcting your sentence in case you misunderstood.

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting Oh thanks Will. I didn't understand it in first glance.

Kitḫ

Are my programmers here?

Just you, @Matt?

user19161

@saeed Maybe read Charles Dickens if you want to expand your vocabulary as well.

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ Who are your programmers?

user19161

14:18

@SaeedAmiri Programmers who help her with her problems.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ I was thinking probably Thomas Bowdler :p

I'm hardly puritan. :D

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri Some of us in chat are coders. I need help with something.

user19161

I only know The Da Vinci Code.

Matt Эллен

oh! yes, I 'm here

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Um. What?

user19161

14:19

Witness the greatest coverup in human history!

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting good offer, but isn't that a little old? In fact in this days did you talk in a same way as Dickens ?

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ oh, sorry, I thought you were replying to my last message

Kitḫ

@WillHunting You should try Foucault's Pendulum.

user19161

Perhaps human is divine.

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Oh, I see. Haha.

Do you think you can help me with something?

Saeed Amiri

14:20

@Kitḫ I'm also programmer, But why you are not in SO to ask your questions there?

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ I can try

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Yes a bit old!

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri Because I am in this chat room right now.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Because they could be closed as general reference!

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting My question was true?

@Kitḫ Yeah you are right :)

user19161

14:21

@SaeedAmiri Well, his style is a bit old but still useful. His novels are very interesting.

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен So I have a query that I bind to a listview. The listview is filterable. I want to generate summary data based on the selection of data in the listview. Why can't I figure out how to do this?

@SaeedAmiri His style is old, but not as old as Shakespeare, and it is a lot more understandable to modern native speakers.

Matt Эллен

hmmm, well you could bind your query to a separate summary listview, and make it look like its part of the other one.

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен I could, but I can't figure out how to run the summary stats. I would need to pass the selected keys to the summary query...

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ So if it's reference I'll read it.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ do you have two queries?

Kitḫ

14:23

@SaeedAmiri I actually wouldn't recommend starting with Dickens, although he is quite a good writer. I'd start with something more modern.

@MattЭллен Wouldn't I need two queries?

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Yes, start with something else. I mentioned him because I thought of him first.

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ What is your modern references?

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri Let me think about it.

What do you like to read?

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ Philosophical books.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ Probably. so you execute one query and put it into a listview, then execute a second query and put it into a different listview?

user19161

14:25

@SaeedAmiri You can also read things like Reader's Digest for example. I think that's good.

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri Hmm. That's tougher. Let me think a moment.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri But those are probably not too good for improving English!

Kitḫ

I can't think of any good philosophy books for beginners. What about fiction?

@MattЭллен So I bind the first listview, get the keys from it, then bind the second listview?

That might work...

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting How about George Orwell books? They are philosophical novels.

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri That's a good choice.

Matt Эллен

14:28

@Kitḫ ah, I see the problem now. sorry I was a bit slow. You could get the keys from the query (using a sqldatareader or something) and then bind the query to the list view after

Kitḫ

@SaeedAmiri Also, Brave New World by Aldus Huxley.

You might like Sea of Glass.

Matt Эллен

Aldous*

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ What's the topic of this book?

and what is "Sea of Glass"

Kitḫ

They are both similar to Orwell's 1984.

Saeed Amiri

Nice

Kitḫ

14:30

Dystopian societies.

Saeed Amiri

Also Ferdinand Céline books should be nice.

@Kitḫ Is writer native English?

In the books you offered?

Kitḫ

I think so.

Saeed Amiri

I see french novelist has some ambiguous sentences in their books.

Robusto

@SaeedAmiri — You could try Bertrand Russell's A History of Western Philosophy.

amazon.com/History-Western-Philosophy-Bertrand-Russell/dp/…

Kitḫ

Oh yeah. That's a nice choice.

I am a fan of Russell. Very accessible.

Saeed Amiri

14:33

@Robusto, Thanks I think it should be nice.

@Robusto But how large is book?

Also is it very hard or no?

Robusto

You can see the page count in the details section on Amazon.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Morning everyone

Read your blog post, Kit

Kitḫ

Morning.

Matt Эллен

hello @MrShinyandNew

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You did? Already?

Robusto

14:35

@SaeedAmiri It is not as difficult as your average philosophical treatise. It's written in a formal but conversational style. I don't know your level, but I read it in high school and didn't have any problem.

Kitḫ

I hadn't even told anyone...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Once in a while, my babies do have a snooze button. But I like that sentence

@Kitḫ Yeah, I subscribed to your blog's RSS feed, it showed up in Google Reader just now

Kitḫ

blushes

I feel so famous.

Saeed Amiri

@Robusto Thanks, Are you native english?

Robusto

I grew up speaking American English. Bertrand Russell writes British English.

Kitḫ

14:38

He is very educated and literate. You would do well to emulate his style.

:-P

user19161

@mahnax You must be eating breakfast soon.

Robusto

@Kitḫ — Was. He's been dead for some time.

user19161

@Robusto Perhaps he is the same in heaven.

Kitḫ

@Robusto You are dead? Amazing.

Robusto

@Kitḫ — Pretty neat trick, huh? Actually, I thought you were talking about Russell.

Kitḫ

14:40

A shocking bit of modesty from you, @Robusto.

user19161

@Robusto Same. But maybe Robusto=Russell.

Robusto

@Kitḫ — I am probably the most modest person on ELU. Perhaps in the whole world.

And I say that with the utmost humility.

Kitḫ

@Robusto Indeed. I think not even Mother Theresa is more modest than you.

coughs hubris coughs

:D

Robusto

@Kitḫ Also dead.

user19161

@Kitḫ I read her biography. What she did is amazing.

Saeed Amiri

14:43

@Robusto Ok guys, by difficulty I mean reading difficulty, by hard vocab and hard structure of sentences.

Kitḫ

@Robusto I see a pattern forming here.

@SaeedAmiri The Russell book should be a good read for you, depending on your reading level.

It is pretty clearly written.

As I recall.

user19161

Considering that the human race has been in existence for very long, most people are dead.

Robusto

@SaeedAmiri — Go to Amazon and do the "Look Inside" business. Get to the preface and see if you can navigate his writing style easily.

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ Ok So I think it's not hard and it's interesting.

Kitḫ

@WillHunting More people are alive now than have died throughout history.

Matt Эллен

14:44

Nov 24 '11 at 14:09, by Robusto

@Jasper: November 23 to July 15. If you can find someone else who goes from 0 to Legendary in < 8 months, then they can brag. Everyone else ... not so much.

user19161

@Robusto There is even the search in this book business.

Matt Эллен

the height of modesty!

Kitḫ

giggles

Saeed Amiri

@Kitḫ What's the meaning of "giggles"?

user19161

@SaeedAmiri It means she is giggling, or pretending to.

Kitḫ

14:46

@SaeedAmiri It means I am giggling. It is a kind of silly laughter.

user19161

@SaeedAmiri Writing the supposed action as one would in a play.

Robusto

I find him not only easy to read, but witty and engaging.

Saeed Amiri

@WillHunting Thanks, Very nice chat.

user19161

@Robusto His writing is easy to read but he is hard to read.

Robusto

@WillHunting — YMMV. Caveat lector.

user19161

14:48

@SaeedAmiri You should thank Jeff Atwood.

Saeed Amiri

@Robusto Thanks Robusto, I'll try it,.

@WillHunting Yeah, Also Jeff:)

Have a good day.

user19161

-2

Q: What is "atom" in "hydrogen atom"?

What is the type (adjective, noun etc) of the word atom in "hydrogen atom"? I am trying to say that "atom" here does not qualify "hydrogen" in any way and we can use it or not use it and the meaning of the word "hydrogen" will not change. So, "hydrogen atom" and "hydrogen" are equivalent. Sorry i...

user19161

General reference, or whatever.

Robusto

@WillHunting — No, it's actually an interesting question.

@SaeedAmiri You too.

Anonymous

Hello

Matt Эллен

14:55

hello

user19161

Hello. All of you omitted the period.

Anonymous

I have a question about English class. I learned spoken English with 3 teachers but all of them taught me by phonics or give me an article and let me read it. They will correct me when I speak not correctly. I tried to ask them and they told me that this will work.

Is it true?

Matt Эллен

It is a viable method

Robusto

The only way to learn fluency is to read a lot and live among native speakers. What your teachers can do is give you a foundation, but that is no substitute for immersion.

user19161

@Anonymous If it works it is true. If it does not work it is not true. QED. :-)

Anonymous

15:02

Thank you all of your answer but not includes Will Hunting, lol.

user19161

@Anonymous My answer is the same as Matt's answer on closer inspection.

Anonymous

Let my brain process for a sec :)

Matt Эллен

of the three of us, Robusto's answer is most useful

Kitḫ

Naturally.

Matt Эллен

:D

user19161

15:05

@Kitḫ Flatterer.

Kitḫ

It's not flattery if it's true.

Matt Эллен

why not?

Kitḫ

Flattery: excessive, insincere praise.

Truth is neither excessive nor insincere.

user19161

@Kitḫ Good thinking!

Anonymous

I also speak stuttering when I talk with native speaker. I am kind of nervous.

Matt Эллен

15:08

I think the phrase "honest to excess" is not unheard of

user19161

@Anonymous That is more of a psychological issue than a linguistic one.

Matt Эллен

hmm, well maybe it is

Kitḫ

@Anonymous Also, it is perfectly natural to be nervous when speaking with a native speaker.

Matt Эллен

books.google.com/ngrams/…

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен raises eyebrow

looks dubious

user19161

15:10

makes notes

Anonymous

All of my teachers suggest me to speak with native speaker more until I feel comfortable.

Kitḫ

That would likely help.

user19161

@Anonymous Good thinking!

Kitḫ

finishes giving user a RTFM smackdown

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ sounds like fun :)

Kitḫ

15:12

Oh shit.

user19161

reminded of ctfd

Kitḫ

Goddamned email is in my goddamned inbox.

And I replied to it the day she sent it to me.

Matt Эллен

:O

Kitḫ

punches self in face

user19161

@MattЭллен Beware of the bee.

Matt Эллен

15:13

:|

user19161

@Kitḫ No self-directed violence allowed.

Kitḫ

Well, I feel much less smug now.

Matt Эллен

bums

Kitḫ

I actually feel kind of bad.

Matt Эллен

well, I'm sure it'll come out in the wash

you'll laugh about it together over coffee and crumpets

Kitḫ

15:16

I'm a jerk.

I hate being a jerk.

scowls

Stoopid usr makin me a jurk!

Matt Эллен

yeah, wut wuz she finkin?

she shud no betta van vat.

Kitḫ

Argh. Why can't I just get paid for being awesome?

Then I could go home and sleep.

Matt Эллен

I ask myself this everyday, although I replace awesome with asleep

Kitḫ

Well, you can get paid for that. Just sign up for some sleep studies.

Matt Эллен

oh, you'd like me to do that, wouldn't you? But I mean normal sleep :D

Robusto

15:20

@Kitḫ — Do they have a drive-thru?

user19161

@Robusto You can't sleep there. It's only for driving through.

user19161

@MattЭллен Sleep studies usually involve normal sleep, or the study is no good.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting only in the control group. others will have some kind of abnormal sleeping pattern

user19161

@Kitḫ This shows you have a conscience, so it is a good thing.

Matt Эллен

I'm not willing to risk going mad!

user19161

15:29

@MattЭллен I should sign up for the abnormal sleep group then. It might reverse my madness.

user19161

Now I only see Will and not Hunting on my laptop.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto You will have to sell that question to me real hard, cause right now I am not sold at all.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 An atom is an atom. Hydrogen is an element or a gas. A hydrogen atom is a specific type of atom. QED.

user19161

Hydrogen atom is a compound noun, with atom modified by hydrogen.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

My point is that Rob's question to Kosmo was the exact opposite of this one.

Robusto

15:35

@RegDwightѬſ道 — It is the inversion of this, but no less applicable. In any case, the question itself is at least ambiguous.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I.e., whether or not hydrogen in hydrogen atom is a noun or an adjective, is an interesting question. But the OP here is asking what part of speech atom is. Well, duh.

user19161

In Soviet Russia, things become opposite!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

He's got it all backwards. Atom is not modifying hydrogen. We are not speaking French.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 — My job is not to sell. It's merely to annoy you. I see that I am succeeding satisfactorily.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And even if we were, we would be saying atom hydrogen.

@Robusto Nah, you are not annoying me.

You wish.

Robusto

15:37

@RegDwightѬſ道 — Liar. I am annoying the hell out of you.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's just that I am exactly one click away from closing that question, and only asking here as a courtesy to you.

Matt Эллен

this is general reference:

0

Q: "…that enriches people's everyday life" or "…that enrich people's everyday life"

What is correct: "…that enriches people's everyday life" or "…that enrich people's everyday life" Thanks!

grammar

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Not too sure what he is asking too, so it can also be closed as not a real question.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 — Well, either you are going to close it or you aren't. I don't see how asking here extends me any courtesy. A real courtesy would be to give me the benefit of the doubt.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting I think the asker wants to know if hydrogen is redundant

user19161

15:39

@Robusto In any case you get to keep your rep.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto You've got your answer in. How is that not courtesy? I could have closed it right away.

@MattЭллен Actually he is asking whether atom is redundant.

Robusto

@WillHunting — I am so not concerned about that. I am trying really hard to get interested in ELU again, and responding to questions that I see may have a hope of being interesting.

user19161

@MattЭллен Certainly not. Atom, hydrogen and hydrogen atom are three different things.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 right you are

@WillHunting well I know that. I'm not asking the question.

user19161

@Robusto Yes I noticed your mention of not being concerned about rep even in your meta question.

user19161

15:41

@MattЭллен Good thinking!

MaX

Hey guys!

Matt Эллен

hi MaX

MaX

Hi Matt :-)

Kitḫ

Look out! Math geek in da hizzy!

:-)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Who who in da who?

user19161

15:43

@MaX Hi min!

Kitḫ

@RegDwightѬſ道 MaX is apparently a math geek.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@WillHunting You misspelled Hochi minh.

MaX

haha :D

RegDwight Ѭſ道

TO THE MaX!!

Robusto

Well, fuck it.

"There is nothing in the world that I loathe more than group activity, that communal bath where the hairy and slippery mix in a multiplication of mediocrity." — Vladimir Nabokov

5

Kitḫ

15:45

@RegDwightѬſ道 I was just thinking that.

MaX

I am trying to find a suitable word for this blanks: "The _____ campaign launched by the opposition and the intense media scrutiny during the investigation into charges of corruption eventually led to his ________ exit"

user19161

@MaX Why are you here? Did you just discover that this room is more interesting than the math one?

MaX

For the first one, I think smear is appropriate word

but what about the second?

Kitḫ

@MaX OK. How about "hairy" and "slippery"?

@MaX Depends on what you are trying to say.

Reluctant? Forced? Shameful? Fiery?

MaX

forced seems right ?

Matt Эллен

15:47

incredibly long winded and ostracising

Kitḫ

How about just "ouster" instead of "___ exit"?

MaX

Kith you are some kind of English wizard ? :D

Kitḫ

Yes, yes I am.

user19161

@MaX More of a witch.

Kitḫ

Oi!

MaX

15:49

haha :D

Matt Эллен

disgruntled

happy

charming

fearful

MaX

The channel sacked the Kith since most of his views were ___________, offering no expert insight.

:P

Kitḫ

amateur?

user19161

@MaX You left out a space in your profile.

Kitḫ

nondescript?

mundane?

MaX

15:51

space ?

@will

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Ooh, mad libs!

Kitḫ

No, "space" doesn't fit there at all.

user19161

@MaX There should be a space after the period.

MaX

amateur seems apt here.

Kitḫ

And what do you mean "no expert insight"? I happen to have a badge in single-word-requests.

Mathematicians. I have a word for mathematicians.

MaX

15:54

and what is it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ please share it

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Matt 1 once misspelled Bangkok as Bangcock.

Kitḫ

@MaX Limited.

MaX

@Will, I have a habit of missing that always.

aedia λ

@Robusto Hey, I put some bubbles in the bath!

It was just too little, too late.

Kitḫ

15:55

And "mundane" is such a better word than "amateur."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Math joke: What do you get when you cross a mountain climber and a goat? Nothing, you can't cross a scalar.

MaX

The Limt for Mathematicians DNE

user19161

@MaX That's a weird habit. It's almost unheard of.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 thwack

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ It's been a while since THAT happened

MaX

15:56

It's only when I type.

user19161

@MaX What is DNE?

MaX

Does not exist.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I've got one, but it's a story. Wanna hear it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ sure

user19161

@MaX That is certainly a nonstandard abbreviation even on the internet!

user19161

15:57

Well, I don't know many.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting I've seen it before

MaX

spikedmath.com

Kitḫ

So a mechanical engineer, a civil engineer, and a mathematician are each given a can of beans and a can opener and locked in three separate rooms for a week.

MaX

They featured a recent cartoon based on that.

Kitḫ

After the week is up, they open the door to the mechanical engineer's room. His can opener is dusty, since he figured the stress points on the can and applied the appropriate amount of force to open it using just his fingers.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…