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12:00 AM
no, it's scary. it would be funny if it were a parody.
Livingstone honestly wants people to be watched - everywhere.
that is what you vote for if you vote for him.
@Jez Supposedly there is a department here which can hear what you are saying even if your mobile is off.
Boris is a member of the elite whose mates are bankers, financiers politicians. He doesn't give a crap about ordinary people.
@z7sg yeah, he's crap. but Livingstone is 100x worse.
@z7sgѪ Sure, the Turks here are also more peace-loving and industrious than the Moroccans, on average. I will be happy with a breakdown into several groups like whites, Turks, Pakistanis, etc. But some characteristics of these rioters will help us understand them.
Livingstone was going to extend the congestion charge to basically all of Greater London.
every business opposed it but he doesn't give a damn.
12:02 AM
@JasperLoy How?
he opposed a desalination plant at a time when London was talking about needing standpipes in the street
the guy is an utter scumbag
You want a desalination plant? That is insane.
Ridiculously wasteful use of energy.
there IS one. and it's perfectly sane.
@Cerberus There's something already in your phone which makes it work. I'm not a technology expert.
a) nuclear gives us plenty of energy
12:03 AM
@Jez The most we can do is ban him from EL&U.
b) do you have any idea how many people in the Greater London area need clean water in dry conditions?
We have plenty of water in the UK we don't need to use electricity to desalinate water!
@JasperLoy Haha, really? I seriously doubt that. Besides, don't people buy their phones abroad?
'in the UK' - yeah, try moving it around
in the greater london area, it's tough given that there are 10 million people
Yes, with pipes. For example it moves from Wales to Liverpool.
12:04 AM
not easily it doesnt. and how much energy does that pumping take?
besides, i go back to my point a)
We used to have to buy water from Malaysia but we have made desalination plants in recent years to be self-sufficient.
if morons (like Livingstone) didn't oppose safe nuclear we would have plenty of energy for this stuff, like the French.
@Cerberus I don't know it's hard to say now who they are but this certainly started with black people in North London who are predominantly descended from West Indians who came here in the 50s and 60s.
Tottenham and Hackney have never been nice places to hang out at least in my lifetime. I used to live in Haringey where the Turks and Greeks live and that was a relatively safe area though not affluent. I had a scary experience in Tottenham once and in Hackney. There are some places there you wouldn't want to linger at night time.
@z7sgѪ OK thanks, that is clear information.
I hope the government will do something to improve those neighbourhoods and the people living there after these turmoils.
These places in South London are also very poor, same sort of thing I guess. Bad schools, lots of people in the community involved in crime, bad housing, violent estates and no hope. Of course London also has plenty of wealthy inhabitants and many of them are also recent immigrants.
12:12 AM
Of course. But they won't be rioting. It is always the poor that riot; it is just interesting to know which groups of the poor it is this time.
Incidentally, Livingstone is a working class guy who used to be a left-winger in the past but is more centrist now. Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is a posh Eton-educated boy who was in the Bullingdon Club with his bessie mate Dave Cameron.
yep :-)
@Jez Careful...
12:12 AM
@z7sgI don't know what you're smoking, but he is FAR from centrist.
De Pfeffel Johnson sounds pretty old money.
I doubt that.
it's funny cos the Bullingdon Club basically was a 'dining society' that went out getting wrecked and smashing places up.
Of course being as moneyed as they were they would simply pay the owners off for the damage afterwards.
So if you hear Boris and Dave condemning the senseless violence, well...
@z7sgѪ Yeah that's pretty common. Students vandalize here too.
12:16 AM
how can anyone still think he's a fecking valid candidate? i would honestly rather see Griffin as mayor.
Livingstone is a trainwreck waiting to happen. If he gets back in, Anjem Choudary et al. will be celebrating.
There are no riots here. People are really scared to get into trouble with the authorities.
I like Peter Tatchell, he's a very principled man. Since he was beaten in the head by the Russian OMOH he hasn't been able to campaign as vigorously as in the past. I do have a lot of respect for the guy.
Or indeed, any sort of trouble at all.
@Jez That sounds pretty bad, if it is all true. Inviting that guy was a grave error in judgement. But he probably regrets his invitation and just tries to defend himself by wildly lashing around. I doubt whether he is in favour of suicide bombers.
@z7sgѪ Russian OMOH?
Hello @kit. I have not had a Kit Kat for years I must say.
12:20 AM
Maybe chocolate will help me feel better.
@JasperLoy Yeah. I know. You are even fined for dropping gum on the street, aren't you?
@Cerberus For littering. And I think chewing gum is not sold here.
@Cerberus Here they are beating up gays:
Unfortunately OMOH in reverse = HOMO
@z7sgѪ I hate that because I love gays.
12:22 AM
@z7sgѪ Huh I don't get it.
Who are those guys?
@Cerberus "But he probably regrets his invitation and just tries to defend himself by wildly lashing around" - even if I buy this (which I don't), this isn't someone who should be running London.
They are the Russian special police force, they beat up protestors and so on.
he should not be in any position of authority, he is a lunatic at best
The riot squas.
@Jez Probably not. But it doesn't mean that he truly supports Muslim extremism, which would be absurd.
@z7sgѪ Ah, OK, and they were breaking up a gay rally in Russia on that picture? And that guy you praised was there, in Russia, and got beaten?
12:24 AM
Sometimes I really doubt if Osama really exists.
@Jez That is not quite the same.
@JasperLoy He doesn't. He's dead.
@Cerberus Well, you know what I mean.
@Cerberus Yeah he is a human rights campaigner, a really good organiser and principled guy and the head injuries he received there have caused permanent damage. :(
@Jez We have talked about this before. I really don't think you should equate the admittedly disgusting parts of the Quran and the Bible to those who call themselves Christians and Muslims. It is simplistic and frankly sounds uneducated.
@z7sgѪ That is terrible. The Russian government sucks big time, in several respects. It is basically a Mafia state.
@Cerberus Right. Christian, Muslim, Christianity, Islam are not well defined.
12:27 AM
I equate followers of the Quran to Muslims. I equate moderates to pseudo-Muslims. I've said this before.
I don't see what's uneducated about that.
@Jez But the text is subject to different interpretations...
I'm atheist but I have to accept that other people's religious views exist, however irrational I believe them to be.
@Jez Yes, and I strongly disagree, so you shouldn't disregard that so casually.
@z7sgѪ Agreed. And I will not judge all of them by the tiny percentage of them that are extremists.
12:29 AM
And if I wanted to represent them in politics, together with the views of atheists and others then I couldn't dismiss or ridicule it.
..."and will go into eternal damnation"
@Cerberus what's so extreme about doing what the Quran says?
that's fundamentalist, sure
but extreme? no, not really.
@Jez But I would not say that until I have read the entire Quran once through, which I have not. And same for the Bible.
I am confused about this cos I've got a few muslim friends, not close friends but... they are all pretty accepting and open about it, it's just what they believe it's not a problem.
So? There are many groups of people I don't like, for various reasons. As long as I don't insult them or inconvenience them, you should let me be, however crazy you may think my views.
They certainly don't try to convert people or say they are heretics and that and obviously they don't try to blow people up. One of them is an immigration officer!
12:31 AM
@JasperLoy rather foolish, then. what do you think, there's going to be a line at the end that makes it all better? "PS. this is all a joke, don't pay any attention"
Religion is used to justify a lot of things. Sex is used in the opposite way.
hint: there isn't
@Jez It is, because most people who are commonly called Muslims (but not according to your definition) do not follow most of the Quran, just as most Christians do not follow the Bible. It has always been this way throughout history; no reason to suddenly change our definitions.
Kit is very quiet.
@z7sgѪ Yeah, there are plenty of fine Muslims. Though it is true that some who won't hurt a fly will still think less of women; but, hey, our ancestors used to think the same way. So if they do not force their misogyny upon others, I don't necessarily have to like them, but I will leave them be.
@Jez I disagree, for the reasons mentioned.
12:33 AM
This is turning into a religion discussion. You guys may want to join the corresponding SE sites.
@Cerberus what, that you haven't read the whole Quran?
@Jez That is unfair. Judge them by their acts. You cannot demand that people be consistent in their views, acts, and statements: most people just aren't.
@JasperLoy I'm still having fun in this discussion. I will stop if nobody else is.
@Cerberus most aren't so vocal about their statements.
@Jez I don't need to read it to know that it sucks, just as the Bible.
@Jez Most? Who?
@Cerberus so we're getting somewhere.
12:35 AM
@Cerberus Yeah I think 'tolerance' can go too far. There are limits to it. In practice it's actually quite hard to stand up for things... outside of an internet chat room.
most people who can't be judged to be consistent in their statements and acts
I have nothing against Muslims - I don't simply meet them :)
@z7sgѪ Right, unless you are prepared to be killed, jailed, bankrupted, etc.
@trg787 simply don't you mean.
@z7sgѪ Yeah it is the classical paradox of liberalism, nothing new there. There is a fine line, and it is basically arbitrary how much intolerance we will tolerate. Just not too much, and not too little.
@Jez Absolutely, most people cannot. I don't think you and I can be perfectly consistent either.
12:37 AM
I wanted to change a lot of things in this world too, but I realised I will never succeed, so now I just want to change my own life.
I mean that I'd like to stop some of the mistreatment of women that happens in the muslim community here, that I've heard about. And I've been to the middle east and seen things.. but what can i do? In reality it's tough to make change without causing harm.
@Jasper, try to find Muslims in Bela-Rus
@JasperLoy A wise decision.
@JasperLoy A good place to start!
@z7sgѪ Exactly. But those who profess such opinions shouldn't be invited by the mayor.
@Jez They do, and yet they aren't consistent at all. What do you expect? On the one hand you say they are irrational fools, on the other you expect consistency in their rationality.
12:39 AM
@Cerberus No I agree, it was a bad mistake of judgement.
@z7sgѪ Haha, yes, corrected.
@Jez Some Muslims say their book is perfect. Some Christians say that the Bible is perfect.
@Jez But why expect that? You already know they will not admit that.
@simchona That is true, though the perfection of the Quran, as a simple statement "the Quran is the word of God" is a bit more ingrained in Muslim culture.
@Jez I could.. but find yourself one! Just, please, don't be provocative when you're doing it!
@Jez We could, but your definition would exclude that person as a Muslim, so that is circular reasoning.
12:41 AM
Search youtube for zakir naik. He preaches very powerfully. He memorised the whole Bible Koran and a few more books I think and can quote offhand in a speech which usually has hundreds of them.
I think both are rubbish (both books)
@Jez Embracing is an ambiguous term. We have already agreed that he shouldn't have invited that cleric.
@trg787 which two?
@Cerberus I think it depends on the branch of Christianity. It is perhaps a bit more diverse but then it's older. The same is true for Judaism.
@Jez Who is "they"?
@z7sgѪ True.
12:42 AM
@Cerberus Muslims who won't admit the Quran isn't perfect.
I am not an expert in Islam or Christianity, but if you guys talk about Buddhism then I might have more to say.
@trg787 Yes they are rubbish. Das Kapital, now that is a book!!
But there are still various branches of extremely moderate Muslims. I have a friend who used to do Ramadan, and perhaps went to a mosque once a year with his father (an Egyptian scientist who lived here), but doesn't believe most of what's in the Quran.
@z7sgѪ Don't forget the Little Red Book and Mein Kampf!
You know in some sense you are right Marx & Lenin
I think people believe whatever they want to believe and then interpret the texts to suit that belief and justify themselves and the texts.
12:45 AM
@Cerberus The Little Red Book is the most heinous work of heresy in history! Mein Kampf... meh
I object to this religious intolerance that you are expressing.
Will someone please ping me when it is over?
@Jez I know, but those pseudo-Muslims still call themselves Muslims, and they feel insulted by the things you say that are not intended for them.
@z7sgѪ Heresy, really?
I suppose Das Kapital is more original...
I see a diamond. Did sb flag sth as offensive because of this religion thing?
@Jez And yet he may feel addressed.
@simchona Sure I'll ping you.
@Cerberus well at the end of the day, tough. If I call myself a Nazi, but one that doesn't really accept the nasty bits of Naziism, then I don't expect myself to be taken seriously. It's a similar thing.
12:48 AM
@simchona I'm not really following either. It's too fast.
Don't call yourself a Muslim who thinks the Quran is perfect, or I WILL think that you mean it.
@Cerberus Well, you know, I'm trying to emulate the religious tendency to despise most those views that deviate the least from your own. ;)
@JasperLoy I object to religious intolerance.
There are like 7 flags in here from multiple people; I don't know what you guys are talking about, but you should consider not talking about it
While of course pretending to be a religious follower of Marx, which I am not. Although, he had good a point or two.
12:49 AM
@Jez But if someone knowingly insults "Nazis" even though most who call themselves "Nazi" are in fact friendly people, then the former is in the wrong.
A diamond has spoken.
@MichaelMrozek you should consider that people are uptight and this is meant to be a casual chat.
@Jez It is not "casual" when you are bashing an entire people.
and people, stop flagging stuff. why do you feel the need to censor others?
I cannot stand religious intolerance.
12:50 AM
@Jez Casual doesn't mean "say whatever you want". I'm just hoping this can go away peacefully so I don't have to wade through the whole conversation deleting stuff, because that takes longer
@MichaelMrozek I feared this might happen. Perhaps indeed this is not the place to discuss such contentious issues.
@simchona I am making a rational argument.
There are some topics which, as Reg has said before, should not be here
@z7sgѪ Ah, yes, understandable. I hope you will catch all those ex-atheists and punish them hard!
@Reg has backed me up when we were arguing about feminism. Some topics should not be here. It is a private sphere that can be guarded at will.
12:51 AM
Why only owns billions? My father undermined Baltic Sea till 1949. What he had? Nothing.
This room was placed in timeout for 2 minutes; the topic of this room is "aka The Incomprehensible Room" - conversation should be limited to that topic.
> the topic of this room is "aka The Incomprehensible Room" - conversation should be limited to that topic
classic ;-)
OK let's cool off now ya?
@Jez I agree that the taboo on religion etc. can sometimes be a bit too strong; but our discussion was perhaps not the pleasantest for everyone, so perhaps we should call it a day. I was just getting warmed up...
Well I definitely won that one. G'night all! :D
12:54 AM
And I hope I haven't said anything religiously offensive. Tell me if I did.
Goodnight everyone! See you all later!
@sim I think you can return now.
@z7sgѪ Night, you won!
@JasperLoy Thank you
Is everyone going?
12:56 AM
We just gained...yoda
Hi @Yoda!
You see, so many diamonds people...
@random Yeah that one was pretty brilliant.
I told all of you to be careful, didn't I?
i sense a great disturbance in the force here
Well, let's talk about something happy. Not religion (unless its tolerant), not feminism (I am a good female, thank you).
12:57 AM
@yoda I sense a green creature with a stick...
@MichaelMrozek I like kittens. Good call.
We're saving the kitten. I'm saving the kitten.
Jez and I, the opposing parties, were all friendly towards each other, and yet we had a heated discussion.
12:59 AM
@Cerberus I didn't appreciate the undertone of religious intolerance, though.
@Cerberus It's not the opposition, it's the potentially offensive content.
I am not offended but I'm just saying this will attract attention.
@simchona But it is remarkable that neither party in the discussion was offended, even though we held opposing views. That doesn't happen often.
Religion itself is not offensive. Intolerance--that all people of a group must be a certain way--is
Now. Kittens.
Jez was thinking of certain passages in both holy scriptures that many people find offensive, about killing and intolerance.
1:01 AM
He was saying that all "real" Muslims are a certain way. Not every person is a fundamentalist.
Now. Kittens. I don't want to rehash the previous 10 minutes
@Cerberus True, but I would not discuss passages until I have read them in context.
@simchona OK kittens then.
@simchona Yeah, that was exactly what I disagreed with in the discussion, though I wasn't offended.
How about you and I just make out @simchona?
@Kit A splendid idea.
1:02 AM
@JasperLoy Even in the historical context, those passages taken literally are pretty shocking.
You don't mind boys, do you?
What? Sex? I am offended!
@Cerberus Not sex, just making out.
One things lead to another. I know your game.
@simchona But I thought you were a girl. pouts
1:03 AM
I sense many diamonds...
@KitΘδς That's why I edited :p
@KitΘδς I think she forgot a comma.
, boys,
@Cerberus You think you do, but you don't. That's part of the fun.
1:04 AM
@Cerberus Oh! I see.
Just dropped in to say "Get a room!" to Cerberus, but that discussion's over... So, uh, Get a room! @kit, @sim!
Another diamond @shog9 has appeared.
@Shog9 But..but...
@KitΘδς I fold. Female sexuality is one of the last remaining mysteries of the 21st century.
sigh OK.
1:05 AM
@Shog9 Yeah it is over.
@JasperLoy My ruse has worked! CZ all the way baby
@KitΘδς No buts you hear me?
@Shog9 Not even diamonique? Cheap.
As Lenin put it: religion is an opium for ppl
@JasperLoy It's like pokemon!
1:06 AM
Religion is like Pokemon?
Of course.
No, "A wild diamond appeared!"
The mods are like Pokemon. They pop up when you're in wild grass of conversation.
Why does @dori avatar hop to the front when she's not posting?
I see.
Can you catch them and sell them?
@JasperLoy She's magical
1:07 AM
@JasperLoy bom bom bom...
@Cerberus I'm not sure what the market on mods is
@JasperLoy I'm just special that way ;-)
How much are you worth?
A spam ad just posted to the "information porn" question
@Cerberus who?
1:09 AM
Those mods.
@simchona And that question has Jeff's name on it. Yay!
@simchona Oh, which question is that again?
I need some sand boots. I have other boots, but none for sand.
Q: What does "information porn" mean?

Peter Of The CornOn several occasions while browsing Meta Stack Overflow, I have encountered the phrase information porn, typically used by Jeff Atwood. What does it mean?

I flagged My First Spam Post!
Can you imagine : Lenin in his exile lived better than me
1:10 AM
@Shog9 I only have my military boots from 10 years ago, still the same pair!
@JasperLoy Oh right, you're from SG
@trg787 Then look forward to your next life, like me!
@JasperLoy But were they any good in the sand?
@Shog9 Normal sand, yes. Quicksand, no idea.
@simchona Kongrats! We rarely see those at all.
1:11 AM
Yoda has left after he sensed the true master here.
How about chestnuts? Were they any good in chestnuts?
@simchona gone now.
@Dori Thank you ^^
Now you'll never be able to buy a pair of boots that work in chestnuts.
@Shog9 Now I have no idea what you are talking about. Although my grammar is OK, my vocab is pretty bad.
1:13 AM
The spam was advertising sand boots and chestnut boots. I have no idea what either one are, as I don't tend to click through spam links... But that doesn't mean I'm not curious!
@dori Why is your avatar always in the chat room? It seems you never off your computer!
@Shog9 Ya I'm not too familiar with language used this way either!
@JasperLoy You turn computers off?
@Dori Of course, don't you?
@Dori What? Don't mention this heresy.
I don't believe it.
1:14 AM
What about
A: "Toilet", "lavatory" or "loo" for polite society

SAND BOOTSfind your boots here! pink boots grey boots

My computer is off sometimes, when I need to reboot.
boots that work in pink or grey?
I don't believe in hibernate, suspend, etc.
@simchona Opportunity missed for advertising loo boots.
@simchona now gone
@JasperLoy I don't see the point, personally.
1:17 AM
Now Jez wins us all in number of removed messages!
A badge for him!
I won't lie. I flagged.
@simchona That's fine. No big deal?
But I would really like to know who flagged my p***y and D**k that day, just for fun.
They might have flagged Matt's f**k reply but not mine, but both got deleted since they were connected.
1:21 AM
@Dori I have calculated that my PC costs about € 15 a month if I leaved it powered on 24/7.
Eliminate microcurrents. Save the planet.
Yay, I have a starred msg.
Now who starred that one? Must be Kit.
And sim and cerb. crazy.
1:26 AM
@Cerberus Keep in mind that restarting it takes a lot of power.
@Dori Does it? How much, would you think?
And how much of that cost is just to power the display?
@Dori Ya that's the main reason, but if we don't use it that often it might save power to off it, but I don't know, just using my common sense.
@Dori I have calculated it with display off.
@simchona You are very honest. Good!
1:28 AM
It was 120 watt, I think; 200 with display on.
I remember a study done about letting laptops run 24/7 (including sleeping) versus turning them off and restarting the following day, but my google-fu has failed me.
You need kungfu panda then, or ubuntufu.
I know at some point the popular opinion shifted from "shut down your computer every night" to "leave it on all the time", but I don't know what data was involved
Hmm, I suppose the figure for laptops will be very different from desktops, because they need much less energy to keep them running.
And because Dori is always in this room I have a feeling she reads everything...
1:31 AM
@Cerberus I haven't owned a desktop machine in about ten years.
@JasperLoy Oh gawd no—not even remotely!
For my desktop, it is 0.120kW * 24h * 30 days * €0.22/kWh = € 19 / month.
@Dori Yeah that makes a huge difference.
And electricity is probably much cheaper elsewhere anyway.
@cerb In case you did not know, Grace is now staff of SE. I just found out myself.
@JasperLoy Yeah she announced it here last week.
Now loo, porn and ass appear on the main site - interesting. Jeff is probably having a headache!
1:48 AM
The spammer posted again
@simchona Jinx.
@simchona Spammer? What spammer? ;-)
Oh silly me, @Dori! It's just the community mod bot going around.
Can we get one more to close?
Q: Question mark(s) when asking about a quoted query

FumbleFingersAlthough some might say you can't say a question, only ask it, I assume I can say (write)... He said "What's happening, man?". so if I want to check if that statement is true, logically, shouldn't I write... Did he just say "What's happening, man?"? My gut instinct is I can't have two que...

@simchona done
Thank you!
2:39 AM
@simchona Wasn't that the spammer? I think I saw it too.
Oh I get it. I think it was removed and you were joking about it being not there.
10:07 AM
There will be no here. None at all!
2 hours later…
12:25 PM
hey, everybody! today my EL&U rep surpassed my SO rep! time for a party!
@JSBᾶngs Whoo! I don't have a party hat so I'll just put an empty paper coffee cup on my head.
12:58 PM
3 hours ago, by Matt Ellen Д
There will be no here. None at all!
So, so long as I don't enjoy the partying, this can continue
@JSBᾶngs Congrats! :D

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