English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

14:00

@MattЭллен I already have the headline if Germany loses the final: "Klose, but no cigar!"

But they're not going to lose.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto rimshot

Robusto

OK, this is weird.

1

Q: Single word for thing which will never repeat in life

Consider: Childhood never comes again in life. What might be single word that means never come again in life?

single-word-requests

I voted to close this because it's a dupe. I have a gold badge in single-word-requests. Why didn't that close it?

Matt Эллен

curious

@Shog9 do you know why a gold badge holder wouldn't get to dupe-close a question?

Caleb

@MattЭллен was the tag they hold the gold in added after the question was posted?

Shog9

@MattЭллен original tag was "synonyms"

Matt Эллен

14:10

ah

thanks!

Robusto

Well, but it wasn't synonyms when I voted to close.

Also, I didn't edit the post.

But tchrist was right: synonyms was decidedly not the tag to use there.

Matt Эллен

Apparently the rule is:

> If a question has a tag where you have a gold badge, and it was part of the original set of tags applied to the question, you can mark it as a duplicate with a single vote.

tag-edited questions don't count

Robusto

Well, but someone could game the system easily by simply making up a tag to ensure that it could never be one-vote-closed.

i-made-it-up

Matt Эллен

true

Robusto

Nobody has gold in that one.

I suppose it would be worse to allow people to edit to include a gold-badge tag just so that they could one-vote close it.

Caleb

14:15

@Robusto The only people with enough rep to make up tags ought to know better that to game the system to avoid duplicate closures.

Robusto

@Caleb Ah, but man's reach exceeds his grasp—especially on the Intertoobz.

Matt Эллен

but, by the same token, you should be able to trust someone with a gold badge in a tag to know how to tag a question with that tag

that's why they've got the binding vote, after all

Robusto

All I'm saying is, I was promised god-like powers and I have yet to take delivery. WTF?

Matt Эллен

lol

Robusto

Meanwhile FumbleFingers is god-voting all over the frickin' place.

Not bloody fair.

Andrew Leach

14:18

@MattЭллен It might be improved if the gold hammer worked on tags you hadn't edited in yourself.

Matt Эллен

yes

Robusto

@AndrewLeach I concur.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Are we having a tag-sale?

user116848

Hello people :)

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 They're all 99¢

Hello

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:25

@MattЭллен I'll take five!

user116848

I have a grammar question

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 it's only $10 for ten!

user116848

May I?

Matt Эллен

yes, please do

Andrew Leach

@MattЭллен Don't forget the handling fee.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:26

balks

user116848

"I knew we shouldn’t have involved with that guy"-------> Here why not "I knew we shouldn’t involve with that guy"

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Neither of those are correct.

Matt Эллен

I'm not sure whether you mean "got/been involved with" or just "involved"

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I knew we shouldn't have involved that guy or I knew we shouldn't have been involved with that guy are correct.

user116848

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 So what would be the correct form?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:28

@Arrowfar The first one minus with is correct if you mean to say that he shouldn't have been a part of it.

The second one would be better stated as "I knew we shouldn't have involved that guy"

user116848

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Right. So in first one can I say------------> "I knew we shouldn’t involve that guy"

KitFox

Wy are you making such long arrows?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

You need "have" in there.

Don't begrudge a man his arrow length.

His name is Arrowfar, after all.

user116848

@KitFox I can't?

user116848

:)

KitFox

14:30

You can say "I knew we shouldn't involve that guy."

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Fair enough.

user116848

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You are a good ninja too yourself haha

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@KitFox You don't think have is necessary?

KitFox

thinks

user116848

@KitFox Yeah so "have " isn't necessary?

Matt Эллен

I agree with Kit

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

14:32

I know we shouldn't involve that guy.

I knew we shouldn't have involved that guy.

I told you we shouldn't have involved that guy.

Ima go do some work and eat some blueberry biscuits.

user116848

@MattЭллен So guys there are two opinions here now. So which is it?

KitFox

"Who are we going to involve?"
"Matt, Andrew, Kit, and Reg."
"No, I think Matt is out."
"He's fine. ... Oh, actually, he's in prison."
"See? I knew we shouldn't involve that guy in our activities."

Matt Эллен

I knew we shouldn't involve that guy -> that guy is currently causing a problem
I know we shouldn't involve that guy -> that guy will cause a problem

KitFox

Oh yeah. That's better.

Matt Эллен

I knew we shouldn't have involved that guy -> that guy caused the problem

user116848

14:34

I see. So both Kitfox and ninja are correct.

Robusto

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Nice work if you can get it.

Matt Эллен

although the "knew + involve" and "knew + have involved" are pretty close in meaning and could probably be interchanged in some cases

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto Indeed.

user116848

okay...

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

user116848

14:39

@MattЭллен And here: "How did you know I was with Kenny?" Can I say "How did you know I am with Kenny?"

user116848

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You eat that? :D

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Arrowfar They are tasty.

user116848

I see haha

KitFox

@Arrowfar Are you with Kenny now or not?

user116848

@KitFox If yes, then can I say "am"?

KitFox

14:41

If you say "How did you know I am with Kenny?" and he is not physically in your presence, you will give the impression that you are dating Kenny.

user116848

Oh, I see.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

NTTAWWT

KitFox

It is more natural to use "How did you know that I was with Kenny?" even though he might still be with you.

Unless maybe you are talking on the phone.

user116848

Yeah, if on the phone. Then?

KitFox

"Hey, Mom. Uh. How did you know I am with Kenny? Oh. OK. Yeah. I'll put him on." hands phone to Kenny

Even then, was works fine there.

user116848

14:44

I see :) Now I get the picture.

KitFox

"I'm with the Connor group." "I'm with the senator."

Come to think of it, the present tense tends to imply some kind of affiliation.

user116848

So to be with someone doesn't necessarily mean dating, right? I could be sitting with the person, playing tennis etc. Yes?

KitFox

That's right.

Existing near someone else.

user116848

Yeah

Alraxite

also works if you're a ghost and are near someone else.

in this case, you do not exist.

Matt Эллен

14:49

sorry gotta concentrate on w**k

user116848

What's wrong with saying "work"? :)

Alraxite

You're assuming he did mean work.

user116848

So he didn't?

Alraxite

Only he knows.

user116848

I can't find the right word here.

Alraxite

14:51

for the time being, it's left to our imaginations.

KitFox

W-rk is a bad word here.

user116848

So Matty which word is it?

user116848

@KitFox "Work"?

Andrew Leach

Aah! You said it!

KitFox

@Arrowfar Yes.

It's a joke.

user116848

14:53

So it's people's pass time here. I see :D

KitFox

Pastime.

Pastime?

Great, now that looks weird.

!!define pastime

Jarvis the Bot

@KitFox pastime That which amuses, and serves to make time pass agreeably; sport; amusement; diversion; games.

user116848

So what would be the perfect word here?

KitFox

I think pastime works. Doesn't it? I don't know.

user116848

Leisure? Free-time? chit-chat time?

Mitch

14:58

the time has passed, the time has past.

KitFox

I think I want pizza and soda for lunch.

Mitch

pizza time

KitFox

Oh, oh, people pass the time here.

user116848

Pizza sounds nice.

Mitch

@Arrowfar It's a four-letter word.

user116848

14:59

@Mitch Which is?

KitFox

I'm supposed to be doing this 'clean eating' thing this week, but even though the food is nice, it's ...

Not pizza.

user116848

@KitFox By 'clean eating' you mean Organic eating? :)

KitFox

@Arrowfar Work. Also, what and with.

@Arrowfar It's supposed to get the "toxins" out. rolls eyes So organic, but also, anti-oxidants, complete proteins, etc, etc.

user116848

@KitFox I didn't get your reply (Work. Also, what and with.)?

KitFox

@Arrowfar Four letter words.

user116848

15:05

I see :D

user116848

@KitFox I see Jason isn't here. He was being a real 'something' the other day.

Matt Эллен

haha. I had rolled back into a branch that wasn't functional

so I rolled all the way forwards and now the system is only as bad as I found it, but not worse

KitFox

Yay!

For uh, stagnation!

Matt Эллен

:D yeah!

KitFox

@Arrowfar Yes.

Johan Larsson

15:13

May 16 '13 at 22:04, by Mitch

@Cerberus I know this is perverse, but I like it to be sunny, and then I sit in the shade because, you know, it's so sunny.

@Mitch So true, so nice!

Matt Эллен

he said that over a year ago?! it feels like just yesterday

Johan Larsson

in a good way

Mitch

16:00

@KitFox Pizza is totally clean eating, if you drop it crust -down-. The other way is gross.

@Arrowfar Follow the links. "Work" is a four letter word, and the humor is that a 'four letter' word is a 'bad' (taboo, dirty) word. ha ha ha.

@KitFox I always think of oxidants as -good-, you know all oxygeny and breathy and fresh and stuff. "Our new laundry detergent oxidizes your sheets so they smell sunny!"

KitFox

I think I'm just going to have tomato, mozz, basil on English muffin.

And have juice instead of soda.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Have water!

You need water to live.

You need life to moderate.

KitFox

Water is boring.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

This place needs moderation. QED.

user58869

is there a single word that specifically describes "search for meaning when there is no meaning"

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

16:06

Existential futility.

user58869

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 oh yes... but what i mean is, if I were to say it in one word without setting it up first. i want to use it as a verb. for example "bob is Futilitying" doesn't make sense at all.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Bob is performing an exercise in futility.

user58869

that certainly makes sense, but it doesn't say anything about what bob is actually doing, nor is it a single word

Alraxite

Bob is failing.

user58869

that is pretty much the same... for example "bob is drowning" tells me something about what bob is doing but only that he might be in water

user58869

16:11

though he might not be

user58869

how can i say that bob is searching for meaning where there is no meaning, in the form of "bob is ..." where ... is just one word

user58869

is this a valid question for the english language and usage site?

user58869

on topic at all?

user58869

i would have thought so...

user58869

might make it into a question later

Alraxite

16:16

Is a single word necessary?

user58869

perhaps if i start by trying to find a single word that accurately equates to searching for meaning, and from there find another word that equates to searching for meaning that is not there

KitFox

Why is a single word necessary?

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You need moderation to ... um ... keep regular.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mitch Oh yes.

!!afk nomtiem

Jarvis the Bot

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Can you pick up some milk on your way back?

KitFox

16:17

You could use floundering or pondering.

Alraxite

Bob is looking for headlight fluid.

Mitch

@KitFox drink fizzy water. it bites back.

KitFox

Frittering or puttering or masturbating.

user58869

@KitFox i was trying to think of a way to say that in a single word, so yes, but part of the question is whether it exists or not

KitFox

Why a single word though?

Mitch

16:19

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Bob should get more exercise.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 !!om nom nom or nummy

Jarvis the Bot

@Mitch nummy

user58869

@KitFox no reason as such, but if not a single word then you might as well say "search for meaning where there is no meaning"

KitFox

@Alex Right. So why isn't that sufficient?

user58869

@KitFox because I want know if there is a single word that says that

Mitch

@Alex um.. yeah?

@Alex The French have a word for that.

user58869

16:21

@Mitch oooh, what is it?

KitFox

@Alex That is not a compelling reason.

Mitch

Or is it the Germans?

KitFox

Are you thinking of angst?

user58869

@KitFox really? simply wanting to know is not enough?

Mitch

Cripes, I'm sure the Russians have a drinking toast for it.

KitFox

16:22

@Alex Is there a single word that describes the feeling you get when a foreign stranger arrives at your door during the day?

user58869

@KitFox searching for meaning where there is no meaning can most likely cause angst

Mitch

@KitFox "That dude in college was always angsting, when he should have been doing his chem lab notes."

Alraxite

Grasping at straws probably won't do it...

user58869

@KitFox there might be

KitFox

What is it?

Mitch

16:23

@KitFox Yeah... "dammit"

user58869

@KitFox i dont know, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist

KitFox

@Mitch No, it needs to specifically capture foreign, stranger, my door, and daytime.

Mitch

@Alraxite Yeah, if you already have a straw that makes sense. and maybe you don't even have a drink.

KitFox

Also feeling.

Mitch

Unless it's fizzy. That makes the difference.

KitFox

16:24

In one word.

Mitch

@KitFox That's the only time I ever use that word.

KitFox

Because I want just one word. Because.

user58869

@KitFox perhas someone could invent a word that means that or use an existing word to describe that, and if enough people use it for that meaning, then it means that

Mitch

@KitFox also 'the'.

KitFox

But that is why it is uncompelling.

user58869

16:25

fecundity

KitFox

Pardon?

Mitch

@Alex Dampfschifffahrtsausdehnungslehrerkapitan.

@Alex Same to you pal! You know there are ladies present.

KitFox

You know Alex is a lady?

Mitch

@KitFox I do? Is that one of my unknown knowns?

KitFox

I don't know.

user58869

16:27

@KitFox there are words like that, that mean something that isn't at all simple, and also have several meanings, so i was wondering if there is a word that can be used to describe "searching for meaning when there is no meaning"

Mitch

@KitFox I'm waiting for

@KitFox !!rimshot

Jarvis the Bot

@Mitch Hey, diggy diggy

KitFox

@Alex I gave a list up there.

You could also add descriptive qualifiers, like "fruitless search for meaning" etc

Johan Larsson

@Alex Maybe Apophenia

KitFox

It needs to be a verb.

user58869

16:30

@JohanLarsson yes, i think that might be it or is in the right area

Johan Larsson

I'm so English!

KitFox

headdesk

Johan Larsson

don't be sore Fox, you are Americanlish

KitFox

Finding patterns where there are none is not the same thing. And it was supposed to be a verb.

Johan Larsson

ok sry

KitFox

16:31

grumbles

Johan Larsson

is there a way to verb it?

KitFox

No.

Not without sounding dumb or using more than one word.

Johan Larsson

rewrite the sentence so it fits then

..., is a clear case of apophenia.

KitFox

That's more than one word.

user58869

bob was apophenising all day

KitFox

16:34

That sounds dumb.

Glad you both just illustrated my options there.

Ima get lunch.

Johan Larsson

what was your suggestion?

user58869

doesn't quite sound right

KitFox

@JohanLarsson Don't ask for one word.

Because there is no point in having one word.

user58869

agenticity

user58869

bos is agenticicating

Alraxite

16:36

chasing rainbows?

Does that work?

It's not a single word.

But it fits well.

Johan Larsson

Chimär is another similar word, still no verb. Pretty sure there is an English version.

Alraxite

Chimeric

There is chimerize.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson I love The Who!

Johan Larsson

I fail to connect them dots

Mitch

@JohanLarsson (Quadrophenia)

Johan Larsson

16:44

tricky

KitFox

Cogitate

That's a good word.

Also, so is this thing I'm eating.

Alraxite

Don't put words in your mouth.

2

Johan Larsson

:)

KitFox

Chimera? I don't see how that fits.

KitFox

17:08

And by a long winding rabbit hole, I am returned to the subject of the pissflaps question.

Alraxite

On another note, does anyone use a StackExchange OpenID to log in here?

KitFox

I do sometimes.

Alraxite

You have multiple logins?

KitFox

Yes.

Well. Two.

I use SE and Gmail.

Or GoogleID or whatever that is called.

Alraxite

Does logging in through your SE account log you in openid.stackexchange.com?

Well, you probably don't know.

Are you logged in on that page right now?

KitFox

17:13

Um.

I have the option to Log In. Does that mean I am not?

Alraxite

Yes.

OK.

Then I am not the only one.

So that's not unintended.

Good. One weird thing less with my account.

@KitFox When you log in to SE through your Google account, do you get logged into Google as well?

KitFox

I can't remember. I know if I log out of Google, I am still logged into SE.

Alraxite

OK.

Matt said he does get logged into Google when logging in to SE.

KitFox

Are you on Chrome?

Alraxite

Yes. Right now.

So, I don't understand why we don't automatically get logged into openid.SE whenever we log in to SE with our Stack OpenID account.

If it works that way with Google, why not here?

KitFox

17:21

OK. Yes. It did log me into Google.

Alraxite

Right.

KitFox

@Alraxite Because it's not set up that way.

Alraxite

@KitFox Ooh, so that's why.

Now why isn't it set up that way? aka the same question I asked earlier.

Mitch

@KitFox anomie

KitFox

Not a verb.

Mitch

17:24

Example: "Dude, don't anomie the whole joint"

KitFox

Dude.

Remember the piss-flaps question?

Mitch

I remember feeling slightly uncomfortable with that entire conversation.

I'm feeling that now again. Or maybe I'm anomizing it.

KitFox

The various questions then the whole Meta thing.

Mitch

That was years ago.

I need a name to blame.

KitFox

You won't remember.

Mitch

17:26

JB? Gigili?

KitFox

I didn't.

anna

Mitch

Oh you're right. I don't remember.

KitFox

aka the infamous troll named 'gamahucher'.

Mitch

I would remember that. And I don't. Searching is not helping.

KitFox

I think it was around the time of the Persian Cat.

@Mitch I can't remember how we knew the gamahucher thing.

It's all deleted stuff now.

Mitch

17:28

NOt so long ago (Feb 12)

KitFox

I just came across it when I was looking for something else.

@Mitch Really? Seems like ancient history.

Mitch

rabbit hole, pissflaps, sure.

Ancient history is Jan '12. That's the cutoff.

KitFox

Oh. Feb 2012.

I thought you meant Feb 12, 2014.

Alraxite

Hmm, I wish I could make Keepass autotype entries based on the URL of the currently opened page.

I can only do it for titles.

And page titles can sometimes be something like "Login".

That's unhelpful.

Mitch

@KitFox If I had meant that I would have.. oh right, I didn't say it right.

user116848

17:40

izismile.com/2013/09/30/stunning_cheerleading_skills.html

user116848

Video seemed nice.

user116848

Thought I should share.

KitFox

18:00

Neat.

KitFox

18:12

Here's my joke.

This proves php developers can make money...

gofundme.com/b9dfcg

Mitch

Shakespeare was dumb. — Mitch 36 secs ago

KitFox

What the shit? Why is that question still open? Must be a dupe.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mitch It was nummy.

Jarvis the Bot

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Where's the milk?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@JarvistheBot In your tits.

Mitch

18:24

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Snap!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

:D

Mitch

"What is word for collection of diaries?" A collection of effing diaries! Now shut the front door for cheese and rice sake.

KitFox

What they want me to do: sign in to read the article. What I do: close the tab in my browser and sigh.

Tweeted by wilw on June 4, 2014 at 5:57 PM

@Mitch I think they mean the word for the activity, like philaleo- phil- like whatever they call stamp collecting.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Philately.

Philately

Philately ( ) is the study of stamps and postal history and other related items. Philately involves more than just stamp collecting, which does not necessarily involve the study of stamps. It is possible to be a philatelist without owning any stamps. For instance, the stamps being studied may be very rare, or reside only in museums. Etymology The word "philately" is the English version of the French word "philatélie", coined by Georges Herpin in 1864. Herpin stated that stamps had been collected and studied for the previous six or seven years and a better name was required for the n...

KitFox

That sounds dirty.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

18:32

Ha!

BBS

KitFox

"Always start with new search - REFINE should not be the default - NEW Search should be the default" This seems counter-intuitive.

Tasty.

user116848

What's nummy?

KitFox

It's a silly word for saying something tastes good.

user116848

Yeah very silly

user116848

So I guess someone should take Kitfox to take a bite haha

KitFox

18:38

I'm sorry, I don't get what you are trying to say.

user116848

To take a bite means--> To eat something, right?

KitFox

yes

You mean, take me to get something to eat?

user116848

It was a joke. You know with all the talk of pizza and drinks etc. earlier. I didn't offend you or anything, right. I know you are very older than me. :)

KitFox

Because that would be take Kit to get a bite.

If you mean to convince me to eat something, it would be "get Kit to take a bite".

user116848

So my sentence structure was not grammatical?

Johan Larsson

18:41

@Rob I think most sports are an acquired taste. Prolly trivial to reduce them all to 'chasing a ball' or equivalent.

KitFox

@Arrowfar I'm not offended. I understood you were joking, I just didn't get it.

@Arrowfar Grammatical, I just didn't understand it.

user116848

I see. ha

KitFox

Take me to take a bite would imply that someone would bring me somewhere so I could literally take a bite out of some food.

So one of those "take" should be a "get", and I think it's the second.

user116848

Yeah that's what I meant

KitFox

OK. hahaha

I have eaten already though, now.

user116848

18:43

Good

Johan Larsson

Pasta can be replaced with broccoli and cauliflower, tastes better and looks better. If it is healthier depends on the amount of bs sprayed on it I guess.

KitFox

I can't be that much older than you.

user116848

Me?

KitFox

Yes.

Hello, IPU!

user116848

I think you are. :) But don't mind that though. haha

user116848

18:56

I am in mid twenties.

user116848

How old do I look then?

KitFox

I was going to guess 25.

user116848

Yeah 26.

aedia λ

Afternoon!

Johan Larsson

hej

user116848

18:59

@aediaλ Hi

Andrew Leach

Evening.

user116848

Hi

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…