@MrHen Wow, 6 hours ago? I'm very inobservant

@simchona , thank you! Of course I did not mean namely you....

one moment! I shall get the required quotes...

if we know what ))) and )) mean, can we recursively infer what ) means?

(Unobservant? Nonobservant? Blindlyblind?)

@trg: What do you mean, not namely me?

oh sorry, I misread you, @Jasper

@Fx — Those are varying degrees of Lisping.

Ignore my last two quotes

@Robusto See, I'd try a cute response to this but you've trounced me hundred fold every time I try them.

@simchona , I mean that I could say the words to any woman

@trg: Which words?

@trg787 @simchona we were at a good place a few minutes ago... let's not get this started again

Which were offensive :)

Yeah... let's please avoid digging the hole back up. Please.

@trg: I think you need to avoid saying things like that. Please don't now apply your misogyny to all females, everywhere.

@JasperLoy At a guess, I'd say it's a smiley, similar to ))), but less emphatic

@simchona OK I'll do my best

@trg: Take out the wink. I feel like you're leering at me. Or being sarcastic.

@GraceNote — You can't win if you don't play.

@Robusto While this is my approach to a lot of things, I don't use trout as artillery against a wild bear.

@trg: Thank you. Just don't mention your feelings of where women should be, and we'll be fine. I'm not the only person who found your remarks a bit jarring.

EL&U can be a great community.

@GraceNote — Ha. "Please do not feed the animals." I hate that sign.

english.stackexchange.com/users/11387/lauren?tab=activity

If you pick your weapons wrong, then you'll only feed your opponent and make your death all that much swifter.

@GraceNote — One of the best strategies for dealing with bears is to give them so much to eat that they're too full to eat you.

@MrDisappointment she's gonna beat me and Kit to the copy editor badge

twice

@simchona , I simply can't understand next thing: in Russian community the words of these kind are abs allowable

@Robusto That seems to be the core of the "You only need to outrun your friend" strategy.

@JasperLoy: @RegDwight, @waiwai933, and @nohat becoming obsolete, I think?

@trg787 that is a big difference between russia and america

in the first place, the connotation of what you said is different in english than in russian

in the second place, the concept itself, regardless of how phrased, is bothersome to many/most american women

@MrDisappointment I don't think so. They're moderators, so they do a hell of a lot more than edit questions

Aye to that

@JSBangs not just women

@MrDisappointment Those three are the only ones who can quickly tell us the edit count, though.

@MattEllen american people, then

@MattEllen Well, that was the strongest way I could put it, I agree.

@JSBangs — Yes. You have to be really good in a language to make jokes in it. Even then, some people will inevitably take it wrong, however well-intentioned.

@MrDisappointment oh. Fair enough

@trg: As @JS said, you can't say the things you might say in Russia, to an American. You might have meant well, but in English your words are highly offensive.

@trg: Also, saying that you can say it to any woman isn't acceptable. You recognize that you were being a misogynist. Most women I know of don't want to hear misogynist comments.

@Jasper: Obstructive feminism

Misanthropy doesn't mean the exact opposite of misogyny.

Misanthropy refers to someone who doesn't like people in general.

misandry

Misandry.

@simchona — I have never heard that term.

Jinx.

dangit, you got me

have a coke

@Robusto: I made it up.

peeplz, can't you just go on ELU w/ a single-word-request ?

@simchona , what's wrong with 3K? How can it offend?

@JSBangs — I thought everybody just hated single-word-request questions.

@trg787 what is this "3K"? am i missing part of the context?

That^.

@JSBangs — 3K is 2 letters after 3I. If we're counting.

@JSBangs It's essentially some sort of staying in the kitchen and taking care of the kids mantra, from what I could parse from the transcript.

ah! something german

That's how it roughly got translated

Kinder, Küche, Kirche

Children, Kitchen, Church

@JSBangs: Yes. He told me that was the formula I should follow

@JSBangs — Children (plural).

aha

As well as asking "wtf" I was doing on English.SE

Well, if you can explain to @trg why some of us can find that offensive, @JSBangs, that'd be a wise thing to do.

Now I show my photo with me from my kindergarten

@JasperLoy He asked "wtf" I was doing on English.SE. Joke or not, I felt offended by his comments

@trg a lot of american women take it badly if you tell them they should stick to the kitchen. they see it as degrading, and they consider their right to work and be respected outside of the home as a major achievement

@trg787 — Yeah, I think we're playing way past childhood photos at this point.

A male chauvinist joke.

@trg now it's possible you were trying to make a joke, but if that's the case it came off badly

Very badly

@trg but you did the right thing by apologizing.

@trg787 how is this relevant?

@JSBangs Then of course, he dug a hole by saying he could say that to any woman

@JSBangs He's been posting pictures of himself for a while

@simchona The thing is, he can.

i saw that, but i'm trying to figure out why

CHAOS ambush?

@trg787 — This is not buying you as much love as you might suppose.

That doesn't make it right, I don't mean to come off as supportive of the words there, but where he can say that to anyone is different.

I don't know :) I'm the second from the right, in white shirt, blonde

I thought they were super heros. if they're ambushing us, are we villains?

@MrDisappointment Anyone is implied to be anywhere as well. I certainly wouldn't like to hear those words either.

@Jasper: Hard times, yes. Misogyny, no.

@JasperLoy — Feels like manipulation to me. I'm just saying.

Anyway, I'm outta here. TTYL.

Enjoi, @Robusto

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

au revoir @Robusto

Bye @Robusto

@GraceNote Yes, and though a possible risk, I didn't intend to be exclusively supportive of ones right to speak (to somebody directly, and with language considered offensive); obviously, the rule applies to the other parties, too.

@MrDisappointment good clarification. i was going to say that one's right to a dissenting opinion does not extend to the right to be insulting and abusive

@MrD @JSB: He is entitled to his opinions about women. To say them in an offensive way is different.

@simchona precisely what i was trying to say

Very much so.

I think the more valuable point is that you should pay heed that what is acceptable changes based on your audience, so you shouldn't assume that what is safe in some circumstances will always be safe. Word choice and care is always of import.

Then we're on the same page here. I just wanted to clarify why I take issue with this

@Trg: What is genetics? Where a woman's place should be?

PLEASE can we make this whole argument off-topic?

Yes

this is even more maddening than the atheism discussions

Mods are here and watching. Please tread carefully.

Oh, yay @waiwai returns

im scared

@Trg: I understand that we differ in our opinions about where women should be.

@simchona that was diplomatic

@Trg: However, do not take this as an opportunity to violently defend exactly why my view is wrong, and yours is right.

Me.

I take issue with it too, @simchona. The point I was coming around to, really, was to look further into the where clause: because just as smoking can be banned from a private area (including town council public service properties, etc. as private), so can offensive language and other behaviour, therefore, the where in this case, which is here, should not allow it as policy.

The story behind my name is lengthy. I use it everywhere for consistency.

Yay! kittens.

It is. @Jasper

Awww, thems so cutes

As I say, long story. Heh.

Look how happy and cute those widdle kitties is!

general reference

@waiwai933 I'm always just a mouthful away from drowning, anyway; I'm constantly treading just as best I can.

@MrD: I think I understand you -- offensive language, like smoking, is something that people do. But where you do it can be controlled?

@trg: You're really not helping yourself right now.

@trg please stop digging

@simchona the idea is that private spheres (and this is not a public space, legally speaking) are not obliged to tolerate everything that might be tolerated in public spaces

@Trg: I'm trying to be understanding, and diplomatic, and not lose my cool. But please don't keep saying why women are supposed to be in a certain place in this world.

@simchona Absolutely. But, that doesn't mean to imply that where you can get away with it without constraint makes it any more right.

@MrD: Gotcha.

@JSB: I understand what you're saying too

so we're free to take a harder line on offensive language if we want to

@Jasper today.

but i don't think that trg is actually being offensive today

I look about a decade younger than I am.

however, i have to get going very soon, so i'll pick up on this conversation tomorrow

In the long run: who was THE FIRST PROGRAMMER in the world? It was Ada Lovelace

Travel safe, @JSBangs

@JSBangs No, this conversation, and all of its trollable traits should be dead in the water now.

I could show you my birth certificate if it matters.

But I rather doubt that.

@JSB: He's saying that women are still subject to 3K, and that any woman who doesn't do those things is an exception to the rule

@trg: Yes, but you still call it an exception. Your opinions are not changing, and neither are mine.

Since we're at an impasse, can we please drop the subject?

@Jasper t'is a curse. I never get taken seriously at interviews until I open my mouth.

@trg787 Actually, wasn't it Charles Babbage?

That's all I ask. Just no further on the subject.

@GraceNote I'm willing

@MrDisappointment only if you count programmes that were never finished ;)

@Jasper Not exactly, but I like to think I don't sound like a petulant 10 year old. Ha.

@MattEllen So many modern programmers write such programs for a living.

@MrDisappointment I know I do

I believe their products fall into the category of vapourware.

I only remember Charles Babbage as the inventor of the cow catcher.

He was an enabler to Ada, and computing.

@JasperLoy but also programme in the UK. I will defend this version until my dying day

@MattEllen On what grounds?

@MattEllen Then we shall expedite the approach of that date!

@JasperLoy Either / or.

@MrDisappointment That it's the better version

But it means something else. :/

@GraceNote :O runs away

What means something else?

@MrDisappointment I don't understand your argument

My argument was weak, yes.

a sequence of letters can have more than one meaning

Of course.

@MrDisappointment What a disappointment

@GraceNote Ever more so does my name becoming increasingly apt.

I believe programme refers to a television or radio broadcast in British English. A piece of software is program in both AE and BE. I could be wrong.

(Is the fighting over now?)

This^^.

Fortunately I didn't capitalise, hopefully conveying my intended meaning appropriately.

@Wanda Though, there is another I'd add to that...

@MrDisappointment Oh?

At sports events and concerts and such and so, you have the privilege of buying a programme.

It's a magazine.

AH! Of course

@JasperLoy Splendid.

@Wanda A programme (BrE) is a sequence of instructions. A computer programme is a sequence of instructions for a computer.

I shall not break!