English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

rest_day

00:00

many stuff i didn't know i didn't know

MrHen

@Shog9 It isn't. Jez is talking about something different than what Jeff was mentioning.

Jez

i'm trying to propose a solution for the 'embarrassment' issue that doesnt involve becoming extremely aggressive in closing questions

MrHen

@rest_day I don't think "newbie" is the real issue

@Jez I think the embarrassment point was an example of what was embarrassing, not so much the be all end all reason of embarrassment

rest_day

@MrHen re: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/1348163#1348163

MrHen

Er, that didn't come out right

@rest_day Ah, oops.

rest_day

00:03

and if some questions are getting excessive upvotes due to their 'tee-hee' nature, cant they be protected?

Jez

not as easy as killing them with fire which is Jeff's preferred option

rest_day

but then that will not help others...i have personally been assisted by a lot of 'newbie' questions here
many stuff i didn't know i didn't know

Mr. Disappointment

I think the idea is ...well, yes, kill them with fire before that happens.

MrHen

@rest_day I think that is part of what Jeff is suggesting, so yes.

@rest_day Still, I don't think "newbies" are the problem here.

Shog9

@rest_day What sort of questions are you talking about here? Folks trying to translate stuff, or general "explain English idioms"?

rest_day

00:05

@Shog9 i have found explain English idioms very helpful

@Shog9 translate stuff, not so much... may be because I don't follow any other european languages, which is the language in which they are asked often

Martha

Apropos nothing, just looking at the unanswered questions list... could someone please give this the coup de grace?

MrHen

Well, I'm out.

Martha

-3

Q: Is it correct to say "Fate forge"?

Is it correct to say "Fate forge", if I mean "forge of fate"? What the difference?

MrHen

Take care all.

Mr. Disappointment

Night @MrHen

Martha

00:07

Dammit, @MrHen, you inbetweened me!

MrHen

Already voted. :P

rest_day

Good Night @MrHen

Mr. Disappointment

More cake stuffs up there? Hm.

MrHen

@Martha It happens? :)

Spare Oom

bye @MrHen

Mr. Disappointment

00:09

@Robusto It's too late in the evening to be watching videos that may well surprise me to the point of hyperventilation.

Jez

-2

Q: How do I politely ask if all orders has been delivered at a restaurant?

Scenario. We ordered 5-6 dishes in a resturant (Italian, for the matter, and of course they speak English.) and after a while a dish we have ordered haven't been coming. How do I ask the waiter/waitress, politely, to check if everything has been delivered (or if an order has not been placed cor...

politeness

That's the kind of Q I would've have explicitly allowed. :-(

screw the rest of the network, stop broadcasting ELU to the rest of the network

who cares?

Martha

@Jez I see that as on-topic (sorta), but "not constructive": it's too open-ended, with no way to select one best answer from the long list of possible answers.

Mr. Disappointment

Best get some sleep, catch you guys tomorrow. And play nice.

Spare Oom

@Jez Perhaps the question should be rewritten more specifically asking if a particular example of answer is polite in order to narrow the answers.

Bye @MrDisappointment

@Martha I have a politeness type question I'd like to ask as well. I already wasn't sure it would be on-topic, but I think I'm scared off now. XP

trg787

I'd say: "Miss, please, my order.... what's with him?"

haha ....... with "it" of course .....

Spare Oom

00:19

"What's with it?" doesn't actually sound polite to me.

Martha

@SpareOom See, I don't think the problem with this one (or the one @OghmaOsiris linked to earlier) has anything to do with it being a politeness question, and everything to do with it being an open-ended question.

Spare Oom

@Martha Yes, @MrHen actually made a good point.

Martha

@trg787 You know you can edit your posts here? Within a fairly short time limit, but still: if it's the last thing you posted, just press the up arrow. Otherwise, click the down arrow on the left side of the post and choose "edit" from the menu.

Spare Oom

@Martha I'll have to phrase my question more specifically, or I could just ask in chat here. :)

trg787

Then just: "Miss, please, my order..." It's enough

c

Martha

00:22

@SpareOom Yes, chat is a good place for questions you're not sure belong on the site.

Adel

Greetings kind folk

trg787

@Martha, you know.. I keep pics turned off I don't know to where to click

Martha

@trg787 Try clicking the left end of the post until you get a menu.

trg787

OK (wink)

Spare Oom

@Martha, I'm not sure about how politeness works in to EL&U compared to merely a manners question.

Adel

00:31

hmm, I'm thinking politeness in EL&U is literary and more focused on the printed meaning.. it's fuzzy though. But let's draw the line at in-laws

Spare Oom

In-laws aren't expected to be polite? Or people aren't expected to be polite with in-laws?

Adel

lol, not really. Especially if they become out-laws

Spare Oom

I'd think the out-laws wouldn't be a continuing problem. :)

Adel

Yeah, that's true. But sometimes they can be :)

I've seen it personally that's why , maybe i'm biased

Spare Oom

I like most of my in-laws, they're all far away.

Martha

00:35

@SpareOom If it's a question of register or formality, it's almost certainly on-topic for ELU. ("Is [x] appropriate usage in [y] context?")

Adel

:) The farther away, the nicer they are.

Spare Oom

@Martha Thanks.

Martha

@Adel That's how I feel about my own parents.

Adel

hmmm I'm wondering if I should consider mail-order brides then

@Martha - uhoh but they're your blood!

Martha

My problem is, my parents live with me. (Or I live with them, depending on how you look at it. I pay the bills, but they bought the house originally.)

Spare Oom

00:37

Is there some sort of separation in the home at least?

Adel

hmm I see, well you're definitely a major contributor ! Paying bills is serious

Martha

@SpareOom No. The only reason I'm still semi-sane (debatable point, I know) is that they spend part of the year on a different continent.

Spare Oom

I love my mom, but I can only take visits for so long, yet I've invited her to stay if ever she needs to move in (for health issues for example).

Adel

Well I'm guessing they're quite old.. after 70-ish everyone gets a bit cranky/crazy

Martha

(My mom just came home on Monday, so I'm still getting re-accustomed to the old conflicts.)

Well, dad is mid-70s, but mom is mid-to-late 60s still.

Spare Oom

00:40

I don't have conflicts with my mom, but I just have to adjust my life to fit.

Adel

So that's a manageable age still, hmm my parents are getting there (68 and 60)

I like to think of it this way - as children, we're the only ones who can truly be understanding and empathetic

Spare Oom

:1348301, I bet when you're 70-ish you'll be sorry you said that. ; )

Adel

.. i.e, others would quickly get impatient with things we wouldn't blink at\

Martha

@Adel They both show occasional lapses of judgment that I'm not sure what to blame on: age, or just general stupidity.

Adel

lol yeah I know. My goal is to stay healthy

Spare Oom

00:43

@Adel Good luck with that.

Martha

@Adel I dunno, I get much more impatient with my parents than I ever would with a stranger.

Adel

@Martha, yes I know what you mean! It's the crowded noggin! and memory-loss

trg787

Adel is abs right. My mom ask me : where the girl? I ask: what the girl? She: that slept with me. ......... OMG........... Then she asked: where is Masha? (her grand-daughter)

Adel

@Spare - :) I know it'll be quite tough! But I'll stick to basketball at least

Spare Oom

@Martha If they're in the house, yeah, but farther away, not so much.

Martha

00:44

Ok folks, I need to finish a few more things here at work, and then I'm outta here. Have fun!

Spare Oom

@Martha Ok, bye.

Adel

thanks a lot Martha! goodbye

@trg787 - LOL , yep and sometimes you catch awesome hilarity

I just read Martha's 2nd-to-lst comment - Yep, I also get pretty impatient sometimes. usually if I've been annoyed by the same thing 10 times already

alright friends I gotta run :) Thank You,

good bye:)

Spare Oom

bye

:)

Kit

@Martha I just missed you! Catch you tomorrow, I hope.

JSBangs

hey, are we talking about something other than the Current Unpleasantness?

that's a good sign, i guess

Spare Oom

00:53

They were talking about some drama earlier, but I'm out of touch.

JSBangs

well anyway, i was hoping to just get @Kit's attention

you there @Kit?

ah, @psmears just showed up

that's two people, which is enough of an audience for my announcement of brief sabbatical

the stress of this place has been spilling over into my Real Life, the one where I don't just answer questions on the internet for fun. plus i have family visiting, and i really ought to be hanging out with them rather than wrestling with EL&U and the supermods

so i'll probably be out for the next week or two. i hope to come back after that

and i hope that by that time we have a constructive direction

thanks, everyone

trg787

You know, guys and girls..... She's very old = 85 y.o. And I 'm scaring to the guts when she 'll inevitebly die. Don't know what to do then. I'm a very late baby in our family (the 3rd). She over lived WWII , they ate clover because nouthing was to eat. Then she vomited this clover

Spare Oom

@trg787 You're talking about your mother? Wow.

trg787

Yes, abt my mom

Spare Oom

Are your siblings able to help? Are any of them near?

trg787

01:08

My older brother died. My sister lives in Minsk (she's a bank manager) But poor as a church mouse. Of course, all expanses will lie on her

Spare Oom

@trg787 You mean expenses. What is expected of you?

My folks had already bought a plot in a cemetery. People here plan ahead sometimes so that the relatives left won't have to deal with everything when the time comes. Of course, that wouldn't happen if someone died very young.

What are customs there?

@trg787 Where are you from? Belarus?

trg787

Aha..... I was born in Gomel, it's SE Belarus and I live here at the time, in parents home

My father till 1949 was demining Baltic sea, on mine trawlers

Spare Oom

01:24

@trg787 My mother is older too, but she's halfway across the country, and one of my sisters lives fairly close.

She checks on her regularly and of course we talk on the phone.

trg787

Customs are very simple: the ritual car goes to under village, local men already dug a tomb ...... that's all

Spare Oom

There's no cost for you? That's good.

Kit

@JSBangs I hope you have a pleasant respite! And I hope cooler heads have prevailed by the time you return.

trg787

I admire my sister..... She gave me so much

Spare Oom

@Kit What's all the drama about?

I've been away, and was way behind with the transcript anyway. Or should I just stay ignorant?

trg787

01:32

If I'd drop a paper or a wrapper from ice-cream on the earth - she fourced me to lift it and to drop it to a dust-bin

Spare Oom

How much older is your sister than you? She sounds like she's a good example. Some countries don't tolerate litter. dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1192496/…

trg787

We 3 children in the family: brother (late, 1951), sister (1955) and me (1964/06/01)

trg787

01:52

Once occurred a occassion: I called her neiboring dog as "he". In Belorussian a dog is "he", in Russian its "she". She (my sister) attacted me: fool, why did you say like that? Don't know till now why it's so irritated her.

Spare Oom

@trg787 I'm sorry she attacked you. Older sisters can be inexplicable.

How long have you been learning English?

trg787

I started to learn English only in my institute - it was a req- - in general frankly I have no abilities to foreagh lans

We were divided into 2 groups: begginers and continuoers. Not all in Soviet schoul learned Engglish. Learned Spanish, French, German

Spare Oom

02:09

@trg787 I learned a little German, but haven't kept up with it. It's been nice talking with you. I have to go now. Bye.

trg787

Have a nice day, brother!

OghmaOsiris

02:43

Dear god, if the question I just asked is a duplicate I'm got to **** bricks.

What is the pun behind "The Beatles"?

MrHen

@JSBangs Gotcha. Get some rest! Have fun! I'll let others know as I see them.

@OghmaOsiris "Beat" as in drum beats

OghmaOsiris

Ah. I thought it was more complicated than that lol.

MrHen

Also possibly the Beat poets

Beat Generation

The Beat Generation is a group of American post-WWII writers who came to prominence in the 1950s, as well as the cultural phenomena that they both documented and inspired. Central elements of "Beat" culture included experimentation with drugs and alternative forms of sexuality, an interest in Eastern religion, a rejection of materialism, and the idealizing of exuberant, unexpurgated means of expression and being. Allen Ginsberg's Howl (1956), William S. Burroughs's Naked Lunch (1959) and Jack Kerouac's On the Road (1957) are among the best known examples of Beat literature. Both Howl an...

OghmaOsiris

How dost thou linketh things like that.

?

MrHen

The second one there links more aptly

@OghmaOsiris Most links from StackExchange and Wikipedia will automatically expand like that

12

Q: Is EL&U succeeding?

What with all of the hubbub lately, I want to focus on asking one specific question that I think is at the core of the problem/drama: Is EL&U succeeding? This is fairly open-ended and I think that is fine. The intent is to try and start locating things for us to work on or, at the very least...

discussion featured experts success audience

For instance

OghmaOsiris

02:52

Indeed.

I hope my comments in that question don't get skipped over.

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris In the meta question? I upvoted a few of them, I think

Ah, yeah, the first one

OghmaOsiris

I commented on Jeff's answer.

I really want that specific question answered lol

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris I haven't read all those comments yet

OghmaOsiris

Because depending on what the answer is will determine if I keep coming back to this site or not.

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris I'd get it a bit of time; I know that your question happens to be one of the big ones floating around right now

I'd stick around for a bit

This next week or so will be a bit stressful for everyone but I think they have the people to sort it out

But I agree with your question: I think we need to be more clear in that regard

OghmaOsiris

02:56

I think that if this site is voted as being for professionals only, then I think a less professional site should be created. Like Mathoverflow is to Math.se

Or Math.se is to Mathoverflow.

However that comparison is supposed to work

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris Sure. I don't think most of us think of EL&U is really "for professionals only"

Dori

@OghmaOsiris Has anyone seriously talked about the site being for professionals only? Because I know I keep hearing that as a rumor, and nobody is actually thinking about it.

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris That sentiment is being blown out of proportion right now because of all the stuff happening

OghmaOsiris

@MrHen But it seems that 'beginner' questions are not kosher, which is what would define the professionals from the non.

Rebecca Chernoff

8 hours ago, by Rebecca Chernoff

We name for the professionals. You can ask a professional question without being a professional. (Does that make sense? |:)

MrHen

02:57

@OghmaOsiris I think the focus was more, "This site needs to be good enough for professionals"

Dori

yesterday, by Dori

Wait: attractive to experts and professionals does not mean only for experts and professionals

MrHen

They aren't about to kick off all non-professionals

Right, yeah, exactly what Rebecca and Dori just said

Rebecca Chernoff

On math.se, people aren't asking how to solve 2+2.

MrHen

(BTW, your little |: face doesn't do so well in parens |:)

Rebecca Chernoff

(;

Dori

02:59

|:) looks like a monkey face to me…

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris Actually, "beginner" questions aren't in and of themselves bad; I think this is the part where we need a lot more clarity

Or a people with a hat

OghmaOsiris

It looks like a man with a unibrow smiling.

Rebecca Chernoff

So I'm a male monkey with a hat and a unibrow? wtf q:

MrHen

@OghmaOsiris: There is a big difference between a beginner asking a question and someone who is most certainly not a beginner asking a beginner question just to get rep

OghmaOsiris

@MrHen Would my most recent question be considered 'beginner'?

MrHen

03:01

@OghmaOsiris I'd have to go read it

1

Q: "Listen to them not"

One of my favorite movies is Hocus Pocus with Bette Midler. One of the lines in the movie is "Listen to them not!" Said by one of the townsfolk in the beginning when they were being hanged. Is this an example of an anastrophe? The terms aren't inverted from "Do not listen to them" in fact, 'do...

phrases terminology

This one?

OghmaOsiris

Yes'm

MrHen

No, I wouldn't consider that a beginner question

Dori

Off the top of my head, I'd say that questions that contain the term "anastrophe" are not beginner questions.

Rebecca Chernoff

lmao, that's what I was just typing >_<

OghmaOsiris

I only know the word because Robusto used it in a recent question, lol

Dori

03:04

@OghmaOsiris And that is what the site is for.

Sharing something you know: good. Learning something new: better. Learning something new and then sharing it: best of all.

MrHen

Heh, I just got a weird downvote... :P Sometimes I have no idea why people do what they do.

OghmaOsiris

@MrHen where?

MrHen

Okay, here is a tricky topical borderline:

0

Q: If someone is an expert in written (rather than spoken) language, can they still be called a "linguist"?

When I think of “linguistics”, I typically think of the study of spoken languages, particularly phonetics. Compared to “language”, which of course is used of writing systems, it carries to me a stronger association to the original literal meaning of “lingua” be...

meaning linguistics

@OghmaOsiris No worries about it. I just think some people vote strangely.

OghmaOsiris

@MrHen I was just thinking that

MrHen

03:23

Ack, is this still open?

-4

Q: Is it correct to say "Fate forge"?

Is it correct to say "Fate forge", if I mean "forge of fate"? What the difference?

grammaticality compounds

Dori

@MrHen Not now.

MrHen

03:52

Thanks

Jez

08:07

Hello peeps.

Mr. Disappointment

08:30

@Jez Mornin'

psmears

08:56

Morning all.

Mr. Disappointment

Howdy.

BTW...

8 hours ago, by JSBangs

that's two people, which is enough of an audience for my announcement of brief sabbatical

Jez

Hmm.

What a shame that that 'lint/Lent' joke is offtopic

this site is going to have less traffic, and less in the way of fun, interesting questions

in short: a less 'awesome' (isn't that word fucking overused?) place to be

salut @RegDwight

Jez

09:24

Hey guys what's a good word for the act of eliding? An elision?

psmears

I have read the latest from Jeff and I am :-( right now

Jez

which latest? there are several comments

psmears

His answer to @MrHen's question and the comments on it

5

A: Is EL&U succeeding?

First, I want to be clear that I have what I hope is a shared common goal with everyone on the English.se community: I want English.se to be great. Unfortunately, the current reality is kind of...far from that. Almost every time I peek my head into the site, it's filled with puerile stuff like:...

Jez

what's your disappointment with specifically?

RegDwight

O hai. Sorry, I am still catching up on the transcript.

And I have yet to read that answer of Jeff's.

Jez

09:33

hmm. he pointed me to this

36

Q: What is your favorite “programmer” cartoon?

favorite fun humor pop-culture

... as an example of their overriding the community all the time.

that's as shitty a closure as the one here. Jeff comes across as a bit of a miserable person.

I think he'd be a good lawyer.

psmears

@Jez Actually in fairness I see why that one was closed. It's a lot of fun, sure, but the answers don't really help programmers do their jobs (apart from the fact that it might cheer them up a bit and thus make the drudgery more bearable!)

Jez

programmers.SE isn't really about 'doing their jobs', though, is it?

look at the logo; it's a cup of coffee

a lot of it is exactly about humour and relaxing

psmears

Well, to be fair I've never been there, so I can't say for sure, but it does say it's for "professional discussions on software development", and I can see why this fails on that criterion.

Jez

12

Humor

Proposed Q&A site for comedians, non-comedians sharing jokes, people interested in the history of comedy, people into cultural humor, anybody interested in anything about humorous things

Currently in definition.

psmears

Jez

09:42

What would Jeff do if that succeeded, then? Everything on-topic would be 'embarrassing' for him. :-)

(everyone follow that proposal, btw, i like it)

psmears

@RegDwight, how are you bearing up?

RegDwight

Couldn't sleep very well at all.

psmears

Eeee, that's not good.

Please make sure to take care of yourself. EL&U is teh winn0rz, but not worth ruining your health over!

Jez

there's that word again.....

English is a rich language, must awesome become punctuation?

psmears

@Jez "Eeee"?

@Jez fixed

Jez

09:56

:-)

RegDwight

10:21

Having an exchange with Jeff in the comments on his answer on meta right now.

Jez

"Thank you for hearing me out"

hmm... a little presumptuous? ;-)

psmears

@Jez No, I don't think so. I think that's a fair way to put it.

RegDwight

I actually meant it in the most humble way humanly possible. Cause this is the first time that I get to speak to him directly. But if thanking him for just that comes off as arrogant, then I have no business posting comments at all.

God knows I have abstained all this time.

psmears

@RegDwight I think that's all very well put - and well done on concentrating on the core issues, and steering away from so many other things he's said that you must have found infuriating

@RegDwight I read it the way you intended it

Jez

@RegDwight i meant presumptuous in the sense that you're presuming he'll read it

RegDwight

10:30

@Jez That actually crossed my mind, what's with you being a native speaker of French.

Jez

?

I'm a native English speaker

RegDwight

Oh.

Wow.

Jez

what's so wow about it

RegDwight

I have misunderestimated you.

It's always a wow to find out how my assessment of something was wrong.

Anyways.

Disregard that.

psmears

"Treat the disease, not the symptoms". That's ironic to me - as far as I see it, to a great extent the disease is "the supercollider has a propensity for drawing in the wrong sorts of user"

RegDwight

10:32

@psmears I had written some bits and pieces on the bus this morning. These are the ones I tried to keep polite and to the point, but there was also another one that was more stern. Remember that I still hadn't read Jeff's answer at that point. So I was preparing for everything.

@psmears Yes, I am puzzled by that response.

psmears

@RegDwight Especially as it doesn't seem to relate to anything you've actually said!

Jez

ugh; mental note: next job I get, make sure it's not based in a converted barnhouse where there are constant machine noises all day

RegDwight

@psmears But at this point, that should be picked up by the community. And don't take that as a not-so-subtle hint to go do it yourself, that's not what I mean. What I mean is that any further message of mine will just water things down.

Alenanno

Hello everyone

psmears

@RegDwight Yep, I agree - wasn't suggesting you should do anything more/differently, just expressing my puzzlement to the world - and doing it here, rather than there, again to avoid diluting your message...

RegDwight

10:37

I've already left too many messages there. I wish there wasn't a 600-char limit for such exceptional cases.

Mr. Disappointment

@psmears The get the doctor to fix you, not tide you over is used soooo incorrectly here - it's actually applied in the most Irish fashion ever.

I was actually enlightened to see that there was a directive though:

The bottom line is that English.se needs to be stricter in what questions it will accept.

leadership flows from the top down.

RegDwight

Well, that's what we've been doing all along.

Mr. Disappointment

That said, regardless of how vague or abstract someone might say it is, is, in fact, something to go by.

Which is what was kind of wanted.

Though, it seems to have degenerated again into a bunch of justifications: but, but, but...

Jez

curious, that 'breasts' question was even approved by Robert and jcolebrand

ONLY Jeff had a problem with it. and some prudes who flagged.

Mr. Disappointment

@RegDwight I'm not saying people haven't been, just that at least, after all this time, and insults of how wrong this site is, one of those people has actually said something about how they think it could be made, ... right.

Alenanno

10:46

I didn't know the FAQ section was already changing

Well, it looks like so at least

psmears

@MrDisappointment Yes... but to me it doesn't amount to concrete guidance. It just says "close more stuff"...

Mr. Disappointment

@Jez Tee-hee-hee, you said 'breasts' giggle, giggle, giggle ...

I mean, who is really that immature?

@psmears Agreed.

psmears

@MrDisappointment Most of the internet? ;)

Jez

heh

but not the oh-so-professional ppl on SEN

Mr. Disappointment

@psmears The worrying thing is that you might be right; either way, it's those people that don't belong here, the individuals who find a single word or phrase amusing without context, or even regardless of relevant context (such as Peter Griffin, of Family Guy (for some reason I'm reminded of him here)), or even offensive. Not necessarily the people asking legitimate questions about such a word or phrase.

psmears

10:52

@MrDisappointment For sure.

RegDwight

Well I see that Jez is working on it already.

1

Q: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

A big issue seems to be that, owing to the nature of the kinds of questions that get asked on EL&U, questions that may be interpreted as 'unprofessional' or 'embarrassing' may appear as 'hot questions' on the StackExchange multicollider (dropdown in the top-left corner of the screen), as well...

discussion

Mr. Disappointment

And HI! @RegDwight, BTW.

RegDwight

Yeah right. Hi MrD.

Busy fighting a war elsewhere.

Mr. Disappointment

Where?

RegDwight

WMT.

Mr. Disappointment

10:56

Ohhh. Lucky duck - I'm stuck at work.

RegDwight

Happens to the best of us.

Mr. Disappointment

I'm actually proud of my deck winning in my absence a little, though. Wooot!

Alenanno

WMT?

RegDwight

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/info/748/war-metal-tyrant

Alenanno

page not found but thanks

RegDwight

11:03

Wow. It's that secret?

Alenanno

Ahaha

I suppose

RegDwight

Jun 25 at 23:11, by RegDwight

War Metal Tyrant.

Alenanno

this is a tyrant for me

RegDwight

This should be @Vitaly. Also, @GraceNote.

Alenanno

I kind of miss that game

RegDwight

11:07

The game being?..

Turok 2?

Alenanno

uhm Tremulous

tremulous.net

RegDwight

First time I hear that name.

Alenanno

only online, 2 teams

aliens vs humans

:D

Well

I'll go, catch ya later

RegDwight

CU.

Grace Note

Nyeh? Someone summoned?

Also that thing's not cute. I have no guise of bemusement about it.

RegDwight

11:18

Grace Note

That is cute.

You could make that in polygons and it'd probably still be cute, too.

RegDwight

Like this?

Grace Note

@RegDwight Well, Wigglers are cute, but for different reasons.

RegDwight

Reasons-shmeasons. That's secondary stuff. I'm about figuring out cuteness.

Grace Note

Mantoids are cute. Cicadas are cute. Centipedes are cute. Millipedes and pillbugs are cute. Most beetles, ants, and apoidea are cute.

RegDwight

11:24

This is why this site is leading. We're ahead of OED with our definitions by several decades at least.

Grace Note

Not to stir up worms, or whatever the common idioms go these days, but... how is the situation now?

RegDwight

1 hour ago, by RegDwight

Having an exchange with Jeff in the comments on his answer on meta right now.

It is getting better. Then again, it couldn't have possibly gotten worse.

Grace Note

Ahha. Is it... more amiable a bit? I mean, I know things can't just reset back to what they were, but are the scales tipping favorably now?

RegDwight

Well, how should I put it...

Those who haven't left demand an apology. I don't think I ever did. No amount of apologies will cut it for me. I need a guarantee that that won't happen again. Jeff is a smart guy. He knows he has screwed this up big time. But I am not here to tell him that, let alone demand that he admits it. I merely want stuff not to happen again. Ever.

Grace Note

I know what you mean, if only because I had to watch that very same sentiment go full throttle on Mathematics.

Admittedly, theirs was... less charged... but all the same of Jeff stepping in because of the burden being on too few shoulders. And so I do understand why you very much want to hope this will not happen again.

Well, no, you don't want to hope this will not happen again. You want this to never happen again, period. No hoping. Just... not happening.

RegDwight

11:32

Yup.

The thing is, behind the scenes community coorinators tell me that yes, they know they have screwed this up. At the same time, on our meta, those same people are either remarkably silent or openly compare us to the Urban Dictionary.

This discrepancy is killing me.

Grace Note

@RegDwight To wit, there is an interpretation of two separate issues on their end, which can account for some level of the discrepancy.

RegDwight

Oh, make no mistake, I try real hard to understand all parties to this massacre. After all, that's my effing (unpaid) job here.

Grace Note

I can't say I speak for any of them, seeing as I'm not a Community Coordinator. But to my understanding, the comparison to Urban Dictionary is meant as a sort of insult-fear-rally. It's a very non-standard tactic. They dropped the ball, but "backing out" isn't really in the playbook, so to speak.

@RegDwight As rational as I've always known you to be. That's what makes you excellent at this job.

RegDwight

I'm only here for the people. The people leave, I will leave. It's that simple. This site is not the questions. This site is the community. You kill the community, you kill the site.

Joel had a nice write-up about recruiting where he mentioned something similar.

Grace Note

The site is very indeed the people.

RegDwight

11:43

Can't find it for the life of me.

Grace Note

@RegDwight Is this "joelonsoftware" Joel, or "blog.stackoverflow" Joel?

RegDwight

Joel on Software.

I think the article was about Google.

Grace Note

Oh. Then I don't stand a ghost of a chance of finding it. I've read... 2 such articles. Maybe 3 if you count the one I skimmed at the behest of drachole.

RegDwight

How they recruit only A-class people, because those will bring other A-class people on board. While B-class people will only attract C-class people.

But googling for any combination of keywords I remember from that article returns nada.

If neither GraceNote nor RegDwight can find it, it might just as well not exist.

Grace Note

I'm not exactly an expert finder. I can find things in Stack Exchange, or more accurately Meta Stack Overflow. I can't even find some of my dress attire in my own closet.

RegDwight

11:53

Well, then just remove yourself from the sentence. I am comfortable with that. :P

Grace Note

But doing so would entail removing a "neither-nor" construct, and it's one of my favorite linguistic constructs, so I'm averse to doing so.

RegDwight

In that case, replace yourself with RegDwight in that sentence. I would be all the more comfortable with that, and it would be logically impeccable.

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