English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

8:01 PM

@JohanLarsson that 'g' is totally wrong.

"I've attached the sketches i've came up with" -- is the grammar right? my gut feeling says no. "came up" vs "come up", I'm not sure which should i use.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Your gut is correct.

Pennf0lio

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者, I'll be using come up, right?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Pennf0lio Yes, sorry.

Or, you could say I came up with.

Just not I have came up with.

Because I've contracts I have.

Pennf0lio

ah, i see. thank you for explaining that.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

8:06 PM

You're welcome!

RegDwighт

Addendum @robusto. I cross-checked with The TV Critic, or should I say checked my sanity, and am sort of relieved he is seeing the same issues I saw. I was worried I was losing my mind, but I'm not after all. So have a look, he really puts my thoughts to paper very clearly, and runs the list down much better than I could in the space here. It will only take three minutes of your time. Thank you.

Everyone else: stay the hell away from that link. It will spoil absolutely everything.

Johan Larsson

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I don't want you to be right

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

:x

But maybe they use that other one for stuff.

Johan Larsson

in Lounge<California> on Stack Overflow Chat, yesterday, by Rapptz

Just saw that yesterday, don't know what it is about really

Kosmonaut

8:27 PM

@RegDwighт: I was reading something on Reddit about long German words and I ran across a comment where I thought "finally, this guy knows what he is talking about", and realized it was you

5

I was amused

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: There once was a man with no chin Which meant that he could never grin The skin flapped...

posted on September 10, 2013 by sgdi

There once was a man with no chin Which meant that he could never grin The skin flapped about Whenever he’d shout So he kept it in place with a pin

Robusto

@RegDwighт I thought the same thing in the first part. There were some very weak moments. And the cliffhanger felt forced. I dunno. I thought Jesse was going to be smarter. But I guess the point is, forces are now at work that are beyond Walt's (and Jesse's) control.

@Kosmonaut You were amused to find that @Reg knows what he is talking about sometimes? I totally get that.

@JohanLarsson Beveled letters are, like, so 2003.

Johan Larsson

yeah I said 2005

yasar11732

is "**** is becoming more boring by each day" correct english use?

It kind of looks OK to me, but feels strange too.

Johan Larsson

I would skip by but i don't know the language. "**** is becoming more boring each day" is my guess

yasar11732

8:39 PM

ok, thanks.

Robusto

@RegDwighт This pretty much sums up my feelings. Especially the part about Huell. And the "brains" shot on Hank's phone was so amateurish I couldn't believe anyone could fall for it.

Johan Larsson

@yasar11732 you want a second opinion

Robusto

@yasar11732 Possible text-editor error. Someone started to type "day by day" and decided to switch to "each day" and missed the first "by"—or something like that.

yasar11732

@Robusto Except "by", is it ok?

Robusto

I wouldn't use it that way.

yasar11732

8:44 PM

Any suggestions?

Robusto

"**** is becoming more boring every day."
"**** becomes more boring every day."

Johan Larsson

^ he knows the language

yasar11732

Thanks a lot :)

Robusto

Sure. You could use "each" instead of "every" in either of those as well.

But "every" has a more dramatic feel to it: "Every fuckin' day she gives me shit about that." Wouldn't be the same with "each" as the first word.

yasar11732

Ok. I have been using this language for years now, but still I don't feel very comfortable using it from time to time.

Do you guys think it is possible to learn a second language like a mother tounge?

Robusto

8:53 PM

Sometimes I feel the same way. Usually it means my inner fussbudget has taken control of my brain and I need to step back, maybe have a drink, and then start over. Let it flow.

Johan Larsson

I feel that way often, usually just press enter any way.

yasar11732

fussbudget :) I like that word.

Robusto

@yasar11732 Ask @RegDwighт. I personally think it's possible if you start young, but I can't imagine having the same thorough facility with, say, Japanese that I have with English.

But that's only because I'm really good at English.

I would have to live a lifetime in Japanese, in a literate environment, to get comparably good.

Johan Larsson

Chatting in English hurts my Swedish

Robusto

amazon.com/The-Japanese-Jack-Seward/dp/0844283932

This guy was probably as good at Japanese as he was at English. And he was very good at English.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:59 PM

hey, @Robusto, have you ever read "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle"?

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have not.

@JohanLarsson What's the Swedish word for whiner?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hm. I was hoping you had, because maybe you could explain it to me. Let's just say that as a white guy who knows not much about Japan, this story made no sense. But it was quite entertaining.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto gnällspik, gnällkärring not formal

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You expect Japan to make sense? That's your first mistake.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah probably.

Robusto

9:04 PM

I mean, my wife is of Japanese ancestry, I've studied the language and the culture for decades, and it still blows my mind how absolutely bonkers those people are (at least by Western standards).

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Look at Yoichi's question about the boredom room. I got to thinking about that one, and I realized that such a practice might cause one of its victims to commit suicide, and that this would probably have been considered a good outcome by many (if not most) of the parties involved.

Suicide is the leading cause of death in men aged 20-44.

Suicide in Japan

Suicide in Japan has become a significant national social-issue. Japan has one of the world's highest suicide rates, and the Japanese government reported the rate for 2006 as being the ninth highest in the world. 71% of suicides in Japan were male, and it is the leading cause of death in men aged 20–44. Factors in suicide include unemployment (due to the economic recession in the 1990s), depression, and social pressures. In 2007, the National Police Agency revised the categorization of motives for suicide into a division of 50 reasons with up to three reasons listed for each suicide...

Johan Larsson

men succeed with them, women plan to fail their attempts I read

Robusto

@JohanLarsson That's maybe because men get the job done. ^)^

Johan Larsson

I feel I'm close to getting the joke but no cigar

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Hm. I guess a heartless company might view the suicide of an unwanted employee as a benefit. If they don't have to pay insurance or something. And in Japan, isn't suicide considered some kind of honourable thing? But even here, "constructive dismissal" is a thing

Robusto

> Japanese society's attitude toward suicide has been termed "tolerant," and in many occasions suicide is seen as a morally responsible action.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 From the Wikipedia article ^

Johan Larsson

9:16 PM

Is it seppuku?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson No.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I can imagine that in north america, if labour laws prevented firing people (and they discourage it to some degree), companies would resort to constructive dismissal. At least here, we have laws that explicitly equate such constructive dismissal with actual dismissal, so it's harder to get away with it. (not impossible though)

well, time for me to go

Johan Larsson

> The Way of the Samurai is found in death. Meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily. Every day, when one's body and mind are at peace, one should meditate upon being ripped apart by arrows, rifles, spears, and swords, being carried away by surging waves, being thrown into the midst of a great fire, being struck by lightning, being shaken to death by a great earthquake, falling from thousand-foot cliffs, dying of disease or committing seppuku at the death of one's master.

> And every day, without fail, one should consider himself as dead. This is the substance of the Way of the Samurai.

From Ghost dog

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Seppuku and hara kiri both mean "belly cutting" and pertain to ritual disembowelment.

@JohanLarsson This is true.

@JohanLarsson amazon.com/Hagakure-Book-Samurai-Yamamoto-Tsunetomo/dp/…

Is this the book?

Johan Larsson

Don't remember. Two books are featured in the film but can't remember any of them

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

9:24 PM

Doesn't that film refer to Rashomon?

Robusto

Which film?

Ghost Dog?

Oh, yeah. I need to see that.

imdb.com/title/tt0165798/?ref_=sr_1

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto yes.

Johan Larsson

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 correct!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@JohanLarsson I would have also accepted that's not how I remember it!

Johan Larsson

Did you like the film ninja?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

9:26 PM

I did.

Johan Larsson

so did I, a lot actually, should re-watch it some time soon

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Don't think I've seen it since about 2000.

Robusto

Jul 29 at 21:53, by Robusto

Oh! Forest Whitaker is one of my favorite actors.

I forgot you told me about it.

I need to get on that.

Must . . . feed . . . cats.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Commute.

Johan Larsson

I have a two minute walk to work, it is nice

Mitch

10:00 PM

@JohanLarsson I know! My Swedish has been bothering me for days!

Johan Larsson

what shall we do?

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 A post-advertisement world sounds good.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson It's about someone winning a multi-year-long bikeshedding argument. presumably won simply by stamina.

Johan Larsson

I meet guys every now and then who are completely fluent in Corporate Speak, scary persons

Mitch

@JohanLarsson Probably see a doctor to have it removed. Or use a pen knife (I'll probably just pick at it until it falls off by itself)

Johan Larsson

10:04 PM

I trust you, grabbing silver kitchen knife

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Gross.

Mitch

You first.

Cerberus

I keep having to ask "but what does that mean?", and "can you say that other words?".

Mitch

@Cerberus I'll try "Did you mean X?" hoping for a yes or no answer, and I just get a continuation of the in prior in all new words.

Cerberus

@Mitch Haha EXACTLY!!

That is exactly what they do.

My theory is that precise language helps precise thinking and vice versa.

Mitch

10:08 PM

@Robusto When they stare you down for food, I get nervous. Are they waiting for you to get dinner or just sizing you up?

Johan Larsson

I can stand this song, not proud of it.

Mitch

@Cerberus I think the whole point is to avoid transfer of information.

Cerberus

@Mitch It can be...but the friendly people you meet at parties really think they're transferring information.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus that sounds familiar, there is a very similar quote which I will not be able to find.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson make it up.

Cerberus

10:12 PM

@JohanLarsson nods

Johan Larsson

@Mitch ok Nietzche said it!

Cerberus

@Mitch In business speak!

@JohanLarsson German business speak from 1900?

Johan Larsson

Corporate speak is the opposite of precise no?

Corporate speak and politician speak are probably closely related, could be that they are siblings and their parents are also siblings.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson Nice! or Ausgezeichnet!

@JohanLarsson that sounds cozy. a very close family.

@JohanLarsson Wait..did you make that up?

Johan Larsson

@Mitch yes, family tree looking like a DNA-spiral

@Mitch yes, you told me to. Can still be correct but I have no quote

Mitch

10:18 PM

@JohanLarsson Did you hear the latest science news? That Tasmanian Devils have such a small population and are so interbred that their immune systems have a hard time telling one individual from another so that one individual that had a cancerous tumor on his nose, has spread the nose tumor thing around the population almost like an infection.

@JohanLarsson well, it worked. I believed you. even though you didn't say anything.

@Cerberus I had a thought about that but forgot.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Absolutely, they are incestuous.

@Mitch I was going to answer you, but I forgot.

Johan Larsson

@Cerberus pretty good Swedish punk about it

Cerberus

It's funny: because of the instruments, the singing is less clear than normal talking, and so it sounds like I'm listening to either English or Dutch, but it's just too far away to hear it well enough to understand what he's saying.

Johan Larsson

lyrics are more relevant than most songs

@Mitch you made it up?

Mitch

No, not made up. I did hear it. My transfer may be unreliable, but what I think I said is in my head a faithful representation of what I think I heard. I could be crazy or hard of hearing or the source may be lying. Other than that you can trust everything.

MετάEd

10:33 PM

What's this thing on my nose.

Johan Larsson

@MετάEd behind it?

@Mitch ok, good enough internet source!

yasar11732

10:47 PM

Hi again.

Cerberus

10:59 PM

Hi!

Johan Larsson

hej

@Cerberus getting late right?

Cerberus

Nahh.

TRiG

Tutbury - n. An ancient git who glares with barely contained rage at a perfectly well-behaved child in a cinema or on a bus.

Cerberus

Congratulations on your coming-out!

TRiG

Source: Afterliff.

RegDwighт

11:37 PM

@Kosmonaut I am amused as well, as I used to post to the Grammar subreddit quite regularly (until it became completely unbearable, to the point of me unsubscribing), but never ran into you there. These days you could only find me in rather obscure subreddits, but lo and behold find me there you did.

And yeah, for my Reddit posts I typically butcher my ELU posts. Or your ELU posts. Or outright link to nohat's answers, complete with my ELU user ID in the link. So I'm not exactly hard to make out.

KitFox

11:50 PM

I missed Kosmo again. Drat.

Robusto

Your first statement is at best a stretch. Your second leaps into the void. — Robusto 15 secs ago

And you wonder why I wearied of ELU?

KitFox

I've been deleting heated commentary. Now just waiting for someone to comment about how I've removed something really important and interesting.

RegDwighт

Drat Kit's around I can't discuss BB.

Robusto

She doesn't have to listen.

RegDwighт

I am reading some funny comments right now.

> It is regrettable that the Nazis, after getting to the desert in record time, suddenly developed Nameless Henchmen Syndrome and couldn't land a single shot.

Robusto

11:53 PM

I know, right?

KitFox

OK, I'll go.

Robusto

I've shot an AR-15 from a lot farther away than that, and let me tell you, it would be hard to miss at that range.

RegDwighт

I must say I'm a bit relieved, wait to hell with it, extremely relieved that you didn't find the episode to be Teh Greatest Evah.

KitFox

Have a nice night, see you in the am.

RegDwighт

> The biggest problem I have with the episode now and last night is that the Nazis are nothing more than anthropomorphic guns. The Twins were much the same way but they were at least connected to more interesting characters like Tuco and Tio. The Nazis are connected to Todd... who is Todd.

CU @Kit! I am sorry!

Robusto

11:55 PM

No. My "holy shit" remark was about my feeling of unease.

@KitFox Fine, be a martyr.

RegDwighт

@Robusto Right, but that is not quite the one I had in mind. Or not the only one.

I mean, remember when you said how the show was smarter than you? Well yes. Except then this happens.

Robusto

yesterday, by Robusto

@RegDwig: About this week's episode, all I can say is holy shit. Which is giving nothing away. But damn.

@RegDwighт What I wanted to say, desperately, was that I feared I'd jinxed the damn show. Me and my big mouth!

RegDwighт

Right.

I support that condemning notion.

Robusto

Let's hope it recovers.

I think it can.

RegDwighт

I fear for the worst at this point. What with the MG.

Robusto

11:58 PM

Well, I take heart that the next episode is titled Ozymandias. We're getting literary again, not pushing through the action.

RegDwighт

> Hank cuffing Walt. For me, a person who has been waiting for this moment or a moment like it for years, it should have been a cathartic and emotional sequence. I should have felt happy, relieved, and maybe a little suspicious. What did I feel instead? I guess mostly nothing. Curiosity over how Walt walks away from this, since I know he has to. The moment came and went and I hardly had a reaction at all.

Robusto

I'm clutching at straws. Throw me a bone here, please!

RegDwighт

> Now, I realize this is a very personal reaction and many likely disagree with what I'm saying. But after that decidedly inert moment (in comparison to what it could have been), Walt vs. Hank turned into Hank vs. minor characters from Season 5.1 and he's likely dead. What an anti climactic 180 degree finish to the wonderful Walt/Hank story.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…