English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:01 AM

Hahaha

> I wrote this script and I gave it to a guy who reads scripts. He said he really liked it, but he told me I need to rewrite it. I said, "Fuck that, I'll just make a copy."

More Mitch Hedberg.

KitFox

I'm feeling kind of cruddy. I'm trying to decide between watching TV and playing video games.

Want to drink together?

Robusto

Sure. Come on over, I'll pour you some scotch.

KitFox

Great idea.

goes for scotch

Robusto

> I'm a heroin addict. I need to have sex with women who saved someone's life.

That one is better when you hear it. Because you don't have to decide between heroin and heroine.

tchrist

12:14 AM

Ayup.

KitFox

So...

Cerberus

> Backdoors are among the easiest ways to bypass encryption, and they can take many forms. Most often, they're considered to be hidden code that allows an outsider surreptitious access to privileged information or functions without a password or other official credential. But backdoors can just as easily be vulnerabilities that are inserted into source code or designs, or are allowed to remain there after being discovered.

I don't understand this.

> What's the difference between these two?:
> 1. hidden code that allows an outsider surreptitious access to privileged information or functions without a password or other official credential
> 2. vulnerabilities that are inserted into source code or designs, or are allowed to remain there after being discovered

arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/…

user87637

12:38 AM

I could not sleep the whole night.

Cerberus

Oh, dear. Why not?

Cerberus

1:19 AM

Al-Jajeera has a complete timeline of the Snowden revelations, with links to articles:

america.aljazeera.com/articles/multimedia/…

Mitch

1:33 AM

@Cerberus I don't know how AJ can expect to get a non-niche readership in the US. The name will -always- be exotic. No one reads the Guardian, is (mostly!) in English, and has a lot (mostly all) about the US.

Cerberus

@Mitch Luckily, the rest of the world does read foreign publications!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Robusto I decided to work on Blue Train.

It's working so far.

Cerberus

Because that timeline is pretty nifty.

Mitch

@Cerberus Sure, but wouldn't they already be reading AJ non-America?

Look, man, I barely have enough time after you tube to read -actual- things.

Cerberus

1:49 AM

@Mitch Hmm what do you mean?

Mitch

I mean those non-americans, who happen to actually listen to news, why would they switch to AJ-America when they would already have been listening to it in the non-American Dubai produced version.

Cerberus

I don't know?

The timeline happens to be on the American version.

I don't understand why they have it anyway, if that's what you meant.

I hadn't noticed my link was to the American website.

tchrist

2:35 AM

@Cerb This one’s for you, wherever you are. . . .

-2

A: What would you call a person who doesn't like questions being asked of them?

Ok, I had a friend..See they are not my friend anymore...They did not want to answer my question as to why they were bothered by something I did. I believe they thought it was confruntational. I try to know why people treat me the way they do by asking them questions but they see it as being conf...

Cerberus

@tchrist What answer?

I see no answer.

I see only a bar whose pinkish colour makes it too hard to read the text.

tchrist

I just find it interesting that Gretchen has chosen to distance herself from her ex-friend so much that she won’t even accord them a definite pronoun.

Her friend is become a them, not a him or a her any longer. They’re too far removed for such definiteness by now.

And thanks for taking out the trash.

The news did a very strange thing today. It covered Hillary Clinton’s remarks about the current Syrian situation.

And they would have one believe that ladies in waiting are no longer prominent courtiers in this day and age!

Cerberus

Oh?

Which lady is this?

tchrist

Hill.

The once and future president.

Cerberus

"Once"?

tchrist

2:46 AM

Quondam

It has a nice ring to it.

Cerberus

She was president before Bush junior?

tchrist

You don’t remember the Twofer?

They claimed they were getting two for the price of one.

Cerberus

I guess she might have influenced her husband?

tchrist

Hah.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Cerberus

And I have no doubt that she will run for office once Obama's out.

tchrist

2:48 AM

She works harder, he is better at schmoozing.

Cerberus

Speaking of which, sack that guy already!

tchrist

Sack?

Sack whom?

O’Bama?

He has miles to go before he sleeps.

Little late for the promises though.

Cerberus

Too bad.

> Germany election ad uses viral video to comic effect - video

tchrist

Thus spake Britannica: During the 1992 campaign, Bill Clinton sometimes spoke of a “twofer” (“two for the price of one”) presidency, implying that Hillary would play an important role in his administration. Early indications from the Clinton White House supported this interpretation. She appointed an experienced staff and set up her own office in the West Wing, an unprecedented move.

Cerberus

Again, the offender is British. Germany is even longer than German. theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2013/sep/05/…

tchrist

2:51 AM

We don’t “sack” presidents. This is not a wishy washy parliamentary system.

Cerberus

Too bad. Would have been nice.

tchrist

@Cerberus That just sucks.

Cerberus

Yeah.

But I trust style books to inveigh against this calamity for the next century and a half, until it has either disappeared or obliterated all memory of geography adjectives.

[sic]

tchrist

sickens

Or inveigle.

The connection between inveigh and inveigle is purely typographic.

I’m unhappy (and a little sad) about Obama, but I don’t think anyone else would make a substantial difference in the job. I think the entire system is rotten to the core and unfixable under the current constraints, and so all who sit upon the Iron Throne shall prick themselves and despair.

Or rather, make a prick of themselves and cause us to despair.

Cerberus

3:17 AM

@tchrist Yeah I didn't think they were related.

Inveigh is no doubt from invehor.

Inveigle...hmm, I don't know. Maybe also from invehor, through another route?

Nah.

@tchrist I suppose.

tchrist

@Cerberus blind

In 15-16th c. envegle (rarely enveugle), app. a corruption of an earlier *avegle, aveugle, a. Fr. aveugler to blind, f. aveugle, OFr. also avuegle:-late pop.L. aboculum, f. ab- away from, without + ocul-us eye. The word appears to have been analysed as a-vegle, and this by exchange of prefixes, made en-vegle, as in some other words: cf. enbraid = abraid, enorn = aorn, adorn; cf. esp. L. exemplum, OFr. essample, ME. *esaumple, asaumple, corruptly ensample.
It is probable that some analogy suggested the prefix en-, whence the Latinized in-. The stem-vowel ē is normal: cf. people = Fr. peuple,…

Cerberus

During the elections, I though, whatever, they've pushed forward another random guy. Afterwards, everyone was so enthusiastic that I thought, hmm, have I missed anything? But then I thought, nah.

@tchrist Ah I see, that kind of makes sense...thought it doesn't explain the semantic changes.

tchrist

Does Dutch have a direct cognate to inveigle? I presume it has one for inveigh.

Cerberus

Uhh...

tchrist

Or was ours just a random lone French acquisition?

Cerberus

3:22 AM

You know we have far fewer Latin and French borrowings.

We have invectief, the noun, but it will be rare and very formal.

tchrist

Yes, but sometimes you have French ones I wouldn’t have expected.

Cerberus

Only (early) modern French.

tchrist

Invective, then.

Cerberus

Yes.

But the English word is commoner.

tchrist

It’s a blithering tirade hurled at someone verbally.

Cerberus

3:24 AM

I can't think of anything related to enveigle/aveugle.

I know what it means.

tchrist

Not sure how common it is. Not too uncommon, perhaps, but not something that the post-literate class would know.

Cerberus

It was in my first list of difficult English words, I started it as a teen.

It's at the top of the list, along with exhort, and a couple of synonyms I didn't know.

tchrist

I wish I could rise to a disinvective joke.

Cerberus

So are inveigle, coax, cajole, etc. I used to look up related words and make themed sub-lists.

tchrist

Yeah.

You know, I think I rather like blithering.

Cerberus

3:26 AM

@tchrist But we don't know those people.

tchrist

Clearly.

Cerberus

I am more familiar with blathering...

tchrist

Is it the same, something applied to idiots?

I thought so.

Cerberus

I would have recognised blither in context, but not without.

tchrist

I used blithering because it made me think of withering.

Cerberus

3:28 AM

What about it?

tchrist

A blithering tirade for a withering tirade, but with spittle. :)

Cerberus

Let me post an excerpt from the top of EngWo.txt.

tchrist

Be my guest.

Cerberus

cudgel knuppel

obtuse dom, stomp

pewter piauter [legering lood-tin]

torpor loomheid
-languor
-lassitude
-listlessness

alack-a-day
(lackadaisical) sentimenteel

The top.

tchrist

Apparently blither is from blether, which I knew not.

Curious.

Cerberus

3:29 AM

(I guess my Latin was not very good, or I would certainly have known torpor and languor.)

tchrist

Yeah.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah, I would just have read that as equivalent to blather if it fit the context.

tchrist

At first I didn’t realize it was meant to be bilingual.

So I was trying to figure how why the hell I didn’t know what a knuppel was.

Cerberus

Haha.

I do apologise.

Do you want to see the "disapprove" section?

tchrist

k

Cerberus

3:31 AM

rant hoogdravend uitvaren

rail heftig uitvaren
-inveigh
-fulminate (donderen, exploderen)

peal donderen, klinken

harangue donderpreek

bluster snoeverij; geraas, gedonder; uitvaren

lambast iemand op zijn donder geven

lambent glinsterend

hector donderend intimideren

exhort vermanen, aansporen

entreat dringend smeken
-beseech
-implore

chide mild berispen, plagen

reprehend terechtwijzen
-reprove
-berate
-objurgate
-rebuke

upbraid hevig berispen, bekritiseren

cavil haarklovend, onnodig vitten

tchrist

fulminate is good.

hector is marvellous.

Cerberus

Words that had the same translation I put together with dashes.

tchrist

peal?

Cerberus

"thunder, sound"

tchrist

Like noise?

ok

Cerberus

3:32 AM

Yes.

tchrist

Well, I got that from the Dutch, but I didn’t think of it for the English.

Odd.

The peal of the bells, maybe.

Cerberus

How do you mean you didn't think of it?

I must say I hardly ever see peal.

tchrist

I saw the lone word and couldn’t think of what you might mean.

Yes, that’s just it.

Speaking of thunder, I’m having a lot of it right now. Rather . . . exciting.

peal [n.1]
peal [n.2]
peal [v.1]
peal [v.2]
peal [v.3]
peal [v.4]
pea-lamp ← pea
pea leaf weevil ← pea [n.2]
pealer [n.2]
pealer [n.1]
pealing [n.1]
pealing [ppl. adj.2] ← peal
pealing [vbl. n. and ppl. adj.1] ← peal
pealite [n.]

So many peals!

Cerberus

Oh, dear!

tchrist

I need to go collapse.

Went to bed at 8 but the thunder got me up.

Too noisy.

Cerberus

3:36 AM

Yes, it was probably in my list because of its connection to thunder. It doesn't seem to fit the theme very well. Or perhaps I read it in a book (I wrote most of those words down while reading) where it was used metaphorically, a woman pealing against her husband or whatever.

tchrist

Back I go.

Cerberus

> †2. trans. To storm, din, or assail (the ears, or a person) with (loud noise, clamour, etc.). Obs.
Perh. with admixture of sense of peal v.1 to batter.

OK sleep well!

tchrist

Din, there’s another one.

Awful din.

Night.

Cerberus

Bai.

I'm sure I have din in my list somewhere.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@tchrist please send it here when you're finished with it.

Cerberus

3:43 AM

> The War on Security.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I thought only bells pealed.

Cerberus

That is what Cory Doctorow calls what the NSA is doing.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Oh wait, peals of laughter.

Cerberus

theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/09/…

Hello.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Hullo!

Cerberus

3:44 AM

And can't a baby peal too?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Sure.

And John Peel.

And then I went to bed.

Cerberus

Good night!

Jason Marsh

3:57 AM

I wonder how it was like to join Olympic when Nazi German held it. Do you think some of them were scared?

Cerberus

Hmm probably not.

Just as people won't be scared to attend the next games in Russia.

Don't forget that the world had not seen how bad Hitler was in 1936.

Jason Marsh

oh

Cerberus

Other countries threatened to boycott the games if he wouldn't allow Jews, so he did. There was even a German half-Jewish athlete, says Wikipedia.

The world knew he was a kind of dictator, and that he discriminated against Jews and other people.

And they had seen the Kristallnacht.

But maybe he was not recognised as worse than Putin yet.

Jason Marsh

4:53 AM

Haha.. cute North Korea wants to co-host winter olympic

newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/13/…

Very cute move but no

Cerberus

Haha.

Well, it might not be such a bad idea.

And the South Korean government is actually considering it...

Noah

5:55 AM

Hi

@Cerberus

Have the following to edit:

"He went after him to pick him up from the hospital"

The after him sounds a bit bizzare?

Is it standard?

Common? Or am I splitting hair?

"Are you going after him?" Would mean completely different to my ear.

Theta30

6:24 AM

@Noah what's wrong with "he went to pick him up from the hospital"?

Noah

Nothing.

I got that in a text that I am editing.

So if we say "are you going after him to the hospital?"

What would it mean to you?

Theta30

@Noah I let others to answer, but the dictionaries I consulted show other meanings

interesting question

Matt Эллен

7:20 AM

hullaballoo

@Noah "you are going after him to the hospital" means that after he has gone to the hospital, then you will go. The question is asking whether that is true.

"He went after him to pick him up from the hospital" means (if we sub in X for him) he followed X so that he could pick up X from the hospital.

Noah

7:57 AM

But it never means that he went there to get him or pick him up?

Matt Эллен

The question? I suppose it could mean that, depending on context

Noah

Yeah.

Here's a context.

A is in hospital. B asks X if he(x) would go there to pick A up.

So B asks: Are you(X) going after him?

Matt Эллен

It's unlikely one would use after there. After is used to mean get in the context where someone is still thought to be in the process of getting somewhere else. Since A is already in hospital, B wouldn't say "go after him" because he's already there.

The only way I think you can use after like that, but when the person is stationary, is when you mean them harm

if A is in the hospital and B wants X to harm A, for example

harm or capture

B: We need to bring A in for questionning
X: He's in the hospital
B: Then we'll go after him there.

because after in that context gives the undertones of hunting

So if your motives are benign or pleasant then you can only use after when involving interception

B: A's left his keys, where's he going?

X: he's on his way to hospital

B: Can you go after him and give them to him?

Noah

8:18 AM

What do you mean by interception? Because X in this context is not intercepting him, or is he?

Matt Эллен

in that context (with the keys) B hopes that X will reach A before A gets to hospital, i.e. X will intercept A

Jez

8:56 AM

hello

Jason Marsh

God damn

I want to find some fresh new musics

Do you know any places that I can go? Such as Grooveshark? (Grooveshark only has same old songs)

RegDwighт

9:54 AM

Last.fm.

tchrist

12:11 PM

17

Q: Why are usernames allowed to be composed entirely of non-visible Unicode characters?

This user on Ask Different appears to have no name due to invisible Unicode characters: he's the #2 user on the site: Why is that allowed? I think it is confusing for users, e.g. when they will see at the bottom of an answer: It's not clear who answered, not clear what the rep numbers an...

Matt Эллен

the real anonymous

tchrist

really

Mitch

@Cerberus This may already have been covered (I don't know because I don't read!) but in the past month AJ launched an American version. Not just English language but all reporting all the time like CNN or MSNBC. About the US. In the US. Ads all over the place. News stories all over the place.

RegDwighт

WTF.

And he got to 23k without anybody doing anything about it.

Is it Jeff Atwood?

Matt Эллен

Well, is it so important?

I guess it makes them unpingable in chat

and comments

RegDwighт

12:19 PM

... as the question says.

The real kicker, of course, is that F'x himself, the asker of that question, is unpingable in chat.

Not sure about main sites.

Matt Эллен

I don't think most users care who answers

@RegDwighт hahaha :D yes!

RegDwighт

Unless it's Jon Skeet.

Matt Эллен

Yes, except then

I guess the only way to find out who it is is to brute force the md5 hash of the email address and hope you've not hit one of the collisions

unless they're using the SE avatar storage

Mitch

@MattЭллен A. It's A. You spooked him, threatening to visit his hospital bed for questioning.

Matt Эллен

damn. how did he find out? there must be a vole in our outfit

RegDwighт

12:24 PM

Funny how of all people this question had to be asked by someone who himself is unpingable in chat. Jealousy? Alter ego? BRB posting on Skeptics. — ЯegDwight 38 secs ago

My job there is done.

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwighт

Johnny Bones, East Coast, USA

1k 2 16

discussion support feature-request reputation stackoverflow badges deleted-answers

Mitch

@MattЭллен When we find him, we'll make a coat out of his pelt. A tiny, tiny coat.

Matt Эллен

and find another vole and make it wear the coat

RegDwighт

Is it just me or have we been drowning in awful questions for three days now?

Matt Эллен

12:29 PM

I have downvoted more this month than normal

RegDwighт

I don't remember the last time I had to outright delete easily half a dozen questions a day right off the front page.

It's almost like we don't even pretend to have a topic to be on.

Matt Эллен

maybe people have been confusing the main site with chat

tchrist

@RegDwighт “Almost”? Welcome to September.

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен Well in that case they still have a long way to go. I can still tell some questions from answers sometimes. That's a level of comprehensibility unheard of here.

@tchrist yeah no shit.

MετάEd

@tchrist Did you notice our resident troll's latest identity?

Mitch

12:48 PM

@MετάEd Yeah. It's A. He's a vole. We're on our way to the hospital to interrogate him at his bedside.

Matt Эллен

lol

Mitch

@MattЭллен shudders

then imagines that that might be quite comfortable

Matt Эллен

we've got to be strict on these voles. show them who's boss

RegDwighт

I think we jumped the shark (that would be me) when that guy yesterday said that one can't count sheep.

I will never stop not getting past that one.

Mitch

looks up sheep

Matt Эллен

12:49 PM

RegDwighт

> I understand you cannot count bread, coffee, sheep and things like that.

I understand he does not understand the word understand.

Oh well.

Matt Эллен

I saw that comment you made :D

RegDwighт

Someone post an answer already.

Or close it for good.

Matt Эллен

about sheep?

RegDwighт

About I dunno.

There is nothing to say there.

yesterday, by RegDwighт

I want NARQ back.

Matt Эллен

12:52 PM

The sheep question's gone to ELL

Mitch

@RegDwighт The sheep have something to say. But they won't. They're too polite. Kinda sheep-like as it were.

RegDwighт

Now I understand why the sheeple will never wake up. They count themselves.

Mitch

@RegDwighт He's an NNS, so everything is rule based for hem.

RegDwighт

And that is something I do not understand.

There is no such rule in their own language.

Aug 7 at 20:41, by RegDwighт

The world is full of people who think that in whatever foreign language they are learning there's a rule stating how to use every preposition ever in every situation ever, even though no such rule exists in their own mother tongue.

Matt Эллен

maybe they think there is such a rule in their mother tongue

Mitch

12:54 PM

@MattЭллен holy crap. from here I thought at first that that was a picture of a sheep being given medication, the vet holding its head between her legs. I looked closer and discovered I was wrong.

Matt Эллен

lol

RegDwighт

"Sure, my stupid Russian was obviously invented by drunkards, but clearly every other language ever was set up by mathematicians!"

Matt Эллен

lol

RegDwighт

Now give me the three axioms kthxbai.

Mitch

@RegDwighт sure, but they don't know their own language by conscious rules, they just do it right without thinking and (for a certain level of) an NNS the foreign language is -only- rules.

@RegDwighт a = a; a = b -> b = a; a = b and b = c -> a = c.

RegDwighт

12:57 PM

@Mitch Well yes, and why would that be. Why do we teach languages that way. Why do we pay people to pretend dumb shit, and then call them teachers.

Matt Эллен

1 + 1 -> more 1

Mitch

I didn't lol, but I almost snarfed my tea out my nose.

RegDwighт

Mitch doesn't always lol, but when he doesn't, it is almost out of his nose.

2

Mitch

sniggering + drinking -> out of one's nose + out of one's head

Matt Эллен

lol

RegDwighт

1:00 PM

@Mitch I still do not understand what I'm looking at.

Looks like a Shemale with a ferret member, straight out of Austin Powers.

Mitch

...with a cup on her head and some medical instrument threatening to impale her uncomfortably. The vole that is, not the vet.

RegDwighт

Vole-are. Oh-oh. Cunt-are. Oh-oh-oh-oh.

tchrist

1:22 PM

@MετάEd dunno

MετάEd

@tchrist "antichrist". Apparently NS has developed a sense of humor.

tchrist

Scent of a Woman (1992 film)

Scent of a Woman is a 1992 American drama directed and produced by Martin Brest that tells the story of a preparatory school student who takes a job as an assistant to an irascible, blind, medically retired Army officer. It stars Al Pacino, Chris O'Donnell, James Rebhorn, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and Gabrielle Anwar. It is a remake of Dino Risi's 1974 Italian film Profumo di donna. The film was adapted by Bo Goldman from the novel Il buio e il miele () by Giovanni Arpino and from the 1974 screenplay by Ruggero Maccari and Dino Risi. It was directed by Martin Brest. Pacino won the Academy ...

RegDwighт

Scent of a Woman (1974 film)

Scent of a Woman () is a 1974 Commedia all'italiana film directed by Dino Risi, based on Il buio e il miele, a story by Giovanni Arpino. Both Risi and the leading actor Vittorio Gassman won important Italian and French awards. There is also an American remake, Scent of a Woman. Plot A blind Italian captain, accompanied by his aide Ciccio, who has been assigned to him by the army, is on his way from Turin to Naples to meet with an old comrade who was also disfigured in the same military incident. Unknown to his aide, the Captain means to fulfill a suicide pact there. While they journey, t...

Two strange films but in very different ways.

RegDwighт

1:38 PM

0

Q: Please help me find this Adjective

adjective for someone who learns from others' mistakes or experiences. the word has escaped me for a while now. I keep having this blur memory that it ends with '...rous'. words like 'insightful' and 'observant' came up but they don't they don't quite cut it. I still feel it is a 4 syllable wor...

adjectives

He's asked this before.

Matt Эллен

not a good memory

even I remember what I was doing on Saturday

RegDwighт

Hm. Yesterday the Reopen Votes review queue was 90-strong all of a sudden. So I clicked through it all (though it turned out to be more like 30-strong in the end), bringing it down to 0.

Just now, the queue has jumped to 89 again.

And it's the exact same questions I already reviewed yesterday.

Matt Эллен

yeah, when I saw it it there were about 15 in it or something. I was surprised

RegDwighт

Well, with the exception of the ones I deleted.

And there we go. It's nowhere near 89 again. I'm done after like 30.

Matt Эллен

I got through about 7 and the queue told me there were no more left

RegDwighт

1:45 PM

Still, I'll be getting a free silver badge out of this. And if they turn this into a daily exercise, I'll be gold in no time.

Matt Эллен

true, true

RegDwighт

The stats show 6 for you, 64 for myself. I don't think I did anywhere as many. Looks more like yesterday's and today's stats added up.

I need Reopen Votes, Suggested Edits, and Late Answers. Then I can retire.

Matt Эллен

:D

Mitch

things I wish I had said:

Didn't you ask exactly this same question a few days ago? Ohhhh... clever! Great setup. Wait, did I learn from that or was it supposed to be you? — Mitch 37 secs ago

Matt Эллен

cutting

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…