English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2013-01-09 (page 5 of 6)

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7:00 PM

@DavidWallace Cute.

Yesterday, it occurred to me that in the phrase "count yourself lucky", nothing is actually being counted.

Unless counting to one counts.

user19161

@DavidWallace There is, you count yourself.

OK, nothing is being enumerated. This is an entirely different sort of count.

Vun David! I count vun David. Vun! Vun!

(sorry, requires fangs and a cloak)

user19161

7:14 PM

Hello @hugo, welcome to this chat!

@JasonBourne Hello! Thanks!

@Cerberus Yes, but the scale of influence is very imbalanced (there are some but few cases where written language affects spoken: e.g. some people pronounce 'often' with the 't', a spelling pronunciation. Those kinds of influences are just not that common.

@DavidWallace I counted on you to bring this up.

@Mitch I have to disagree.

I don't know about the proportions, but there is considerable influence.

@Cerberus in what way?

In many ways.

For example, the speak-as-you-spell movement, as mentioned by Fowler.

7:25 PM

examples? give an indication of scale.

@Cerberus ??

Nowadays, many people read many complicated words before ever hearing them.

Another site scraping ELU content: english.seeore.com Looks like they have about a quarter of ELU posted (5,047 posts there/21,304 questions here).

And they will accordingly be more likely to pronounce them in a more regular way, if the conventional pronunciation is less regular.

@Hugo Probably all of the not closed questions.

I don't see any attribution or linking, other than "Copyright © 2011 English Language and Usage", but that just looks like a name scrape, and it just links back to their site

7:26 PM

Scale is very hard to measure.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes. There are lots of cases of this happening.

nods

Yes I see that. people saying 'com PAIR able' instead of 'COM pra bull'

Also "Powered by Blogger". shall I post to meta? We got that last Blogger scraper shut.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I can think of a few words I've been surprised to discover weren't said the way I inferred.

7:27 PM

@Mitch Yes, like that.

@Cerberus yes. that scale is very tiny.

@KitFox True. Still looks a lot.

And eventually many of these writing-based words become standard in speech.

Like...waistcoat.

I would pronounce it weskit.

??

Or something.

7:28 PM

how are you supposed to pronounce that?

@Hugo Yes. Good idea. Link to the other Meta question too, if you don't mind.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

or expert sex change dot com

@KitFox OK, coming up.

But I think it has all but evolved into wayst-cote.

Wainscoating

7:29 PM

Bosun

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

scones

foxhole

Yes, yes.

mmm scones.

Foxhole?

7:29 PM

focsle

obviously

I do rather feeling like having tea, now you mention it.

Oh.

has tea

wow. really?

tries to remember how to get hot water

@Mitch So anyway, this is just one of the many ways in which writing influences speech. Think also of composition, syntax, etc.

user19161

7:30 PM

How does the number of deletion votes vary?

user19161

It seems the more rep I get, the more delete votes I have...

@KitFox I know, right!

@KitFox Get a Quooker! My parents had one installed, and it is so extremely convenient, nouveau-riche though it be.

brb

@Mitch Then there is initialisms.

7:32 PM

@KitFox I think the oven is involved, but I don't remember.

@Cerberus Yeah, my point and what I think linguists points is is that it's not that big of an influence. in fact quite small.

Initialisms are usually created in writing, and for writing.

Because people want to save space and typing effort.

@Cerberus and acronyms then make them spoken, taking it entirely away from the written word.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I think the influence of writing may not have reached its peak yet. historically most people were not literate, now most people are. At least in many places.

I don't think the Greeks had any initialisms at all.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:33 PM

@Cerberus The Chinese didn't either. So backwards!

@Mahnax I'm at work. I haven't any oven.

@Mitch But the initialism/acronym was created in writing, so speech is influenced by writing here.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, they should be easy enough to create in Chinese!

Take a vertical line from this character, a scribbly bit from that...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus There are no scribbly bits! </stern-voice>

My apologies.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

oh, except for the grassy style. That's all scribbly bits.

7:35 PM

Noble Scratchy Bits, then.

@KitFox A coven, then.

Just because spoken language came first, that doesn't mean written language is somehow false.

@Cerberus very small influence.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus have you SEEN chinese writing? It's pretty false. FALSE.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ok...that's on to something.

7:38 PM

@Mitch How is it small? We use initialisms and acronyms all the time in speech.

but again what does 'is/influence' mean?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wai?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch I'm really only speculating. But that's my intuition. The influence of writing is growing through ubiquity. Like how people say "sigh" or "lawl" because they're used to writing that stuff down.

@Mitch Influence means certain things in speech would have been different had writing not existed. I think there are plenty such things.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus nvm, just being grouchy about chinese writing, which is frickin hard

7:39 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This is correct.

But most of the animus against thinking of language as speech is already based in the way we're talking about it. Rules about writing are very different from rules about spoken language.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Tru that.

@Mitch Very different? I don't know. I think Dutch has changed a huge deal between the Middle Ages and now: among other things, it has becomes far more regular, as in syntax.

Many of these rules are more obvious in writing, because you have an overview of the text.

sure our spoken language gets influenced by writing (textspeak being used by speakers), but what -is- language-? It is the spoken part not the written part, don't confuse the transcription medium for the thing itself.

So they only come up if you read and write a lot.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch well, speech is the primary aspect of language for most people. That's how they learn it, by speaking, and that's where lots of innovations still arise. But the rise of writing: blogs, email, texting, etc, have led to more written innovations too lately.

7:42 PM

And then you will later also apply these rules to your speech, to some extent.

What with the increase in literacy and all.

Really, what the hell does @KitFox know about this? Nothing.

@Mitch More than you.

@Mitch Uhh why "is" it the spoken part? Now you seem to be supporting the position you attacked in the beginning of this discussion.

@Cerberus but the amount of rules that about spoken language are infinite in comparison to the few that are influenced by writing.

@KitFox Nothing more than nothing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:43 PM

@Mitch Infinite? please. Learn math!

Matt Эллен

@Mitch given that the written part doesn't sound like the spoken part, you can comfortably call them two separate things

user19161

Language is boring. Close down ELU!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

THEN talk to us about infinite!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you don't know shit about math.

user19161

Just speak whatever you want! Who cares about grammar!

7:43 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I will. and then you'll want to never have heard about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Pfft. I know more about math than Kit knows about language!

Matt Эллен

grammar you about car

@JasonBourne I do, because I wnat you to understand what I"m saying.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 At least I can write Chinese.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, the influence of speech on writing is probably greater—however you measure that—, but there is significant influence both ways. As to which is "primary", that depends on your definition, but a strong case can be made for speech of course.

7:44 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah. Exactly. A boat load of nothing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Ha, as if. Not even the Chinese can write Chinese.

@MattЭллен that made sense.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch At least my boat's not sinking!

Now you are just being nonsensical.

@Cerberus That's different again.

7:44 PM

@MattЭллен I am confortable with that and expect to take a nap about it pretty soon.

@Mitch Is that so? These influences are many and subtle. Like using a certain word after another word slightly less than you used to, after reading a certain novel.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I could drive my empty boat right through the gaps in your understandings!

Etc. etc.

Kit can write Chinese. Not even the Chinese can write Chinese. Therefore, Kit is not even Chinese.

Could all the ignorant people please just shut up now?

Thank you.

7:45 PM

QED

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox starting with you?

@Cerberus I think literacy itself has had an impact as someone who I have conveniently forgotten had just said. But language is not the written form.

Matt Эллен

pardon? I couldn't hear you over your misunderstanding

2

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No obscene metaphors in this room.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm sorry; I can't hear you over all this bitching.

7:46 PM

@Mitch Yes, literacy has had an impact. That's all I'm saying.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Listen, pup. Go have some scones then come talk to me about metaphors. My metaphors are metametaphors

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Did you hear that they're making all sorts of writing mistakes (misplaced/ missing strokes) because everybody is using text intry IME's nowadays on their phones?

Text intry, eh?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch No. But I read it. Because I'm literate.

gods, this room today

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ooh. that stings.

Not

Matt Эллен

7:47 PM

@Mitch sinks

oh dear. your written language isn't very good

As to what "language" (not "a language"? how about languages that exist only in writing?) is, and what "is" is...the favourite statement of linguists that "written language does not exists" is a bit silly, if not unclear.

@Cerberus influence..sure (slight, but yes, influence). but writing is not language.

user19161

@MattЭллен You should let the OED folks know that Jason Bourne is waiting for an answer. =)

You know what? You can all go to hell. I'm going to go eat scones and drink tea and laugh at your pathetic pedantry.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So the grossness of your metaphor stands for certain aspects of yourself? I see.

7:48 PM

@KitFox shutting the front door right now. in your face

Matt Эллен

@JasonBourne that might shake them up, or make them think I'm crazy

user19161

Scones are very delicious, I should get some soon.

@Mitch You think that's funny? I ought to suspend you, you twit.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 your metaphor. my metaphor is already a metaphor.

so Ha!

user19161

@MattЭллен You can direct them to ELU to see that Jason Bourne exists.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:49 PM

@KitFox what, you're suspending people now? Getting a bit drunk on power?

Is that what you think?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 too shay

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's too noisy in here to think

Now you're going to tell me how to do my job?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox as if I haven't been doing that for years already

7:50 PM

You already have the means to do your job, so you told us.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. apparently I said I'd be somewhere else an hour ago.

Oops!

@Cerberus OK for that, that is a load of horse shit, it's not a language. it's simply a code.

user19161

I finally discovered that the Chrome settings on Linux are stored in ~/.config

@MattЭллен Someplace fun?

@Mitch Why?

7:50 PM

HTML is not a language. it doesn't have variables (and frankly doesn't compute anything anyway.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You are such a dick.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch You'd better stop now. Your confusion is showing.

How do you define a language?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus possibly. i'm going to go and find out. CU!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox s/are/have/.

7:51 PM

And do you distinguish between "language" and "a language"?

@MattЭллен Have it!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Like that means anything. I have four at home.

Four!?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox counts four?

Oh, right. Six.

No need to disclose such private medical information about other people on the Internet.

user19161

7:53 PM

I wanna ask the pros here about flash. There is this Shumway project by Mozilla. If successful, does it mean we can play all flash videos without installing flash?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox six then. Still can't find a good one?

@JasonBourne Shh! The grownups are talking

@JasonBourne Flash is dead.

Steve Jobs killed it.

user19161

@Robusto Says Robusto. QED.

@JasonBourne Oh, that's very interesting!

@KitFox Oh. Well. I'm biting my tongue then.

7:54 PM

@Robusto It killed itself.

By sucking.

Or rather...

that hurts a bit.

@Cerberus Again, wrong.

so just imagine what I'm thinking and flag that.

Hey, if you like Flash, be my guest and suck it!

@Mitch imaginary flag I saw that!

Or, rather, I imagined that.

Shouldn't I flag myself?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 you don't have lines to read through.

7:56 PM

@Cerberus You're telling me to suck it? Go lick your balls like a good little doggy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch lines of what? you're making less sense than usual!

user19161

I wonder if it is spelled doggy or doggie...

@JasonBourne falsh sucks and is dying. but use it if your boss tells you to.

What do you think I'm doing?

@Mitch That is falsh, as in not tru.

user19161

7:57 PM

Also, should it be smily or smilie? Hmm...

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I usually don't make sense so I guess it's wrapping around and making a lot of sense now. Which tells me I should stop listening to your gibberish.

goddamn mouth-speaker.

@JasonBourne both, but -y preferred.

0

Q: http://english.seeore.com/ scraping EL&U content

The site http://english.seeore.com/ appears to be reposing a lot of EL&U content plastered with ads (5,047 posts at time of writing). I can't see any proper attribution, other than this footer which is probably just scraped and points back to them anyway: Welcome to http://english.seeore....

discussion copyrights

@JasonBourne the second one doesn't exist.

user19161

@Mitch How about the plural then? Smilies?

yes.

8:00 PM

Smiley?

user19161

Oh yes smiley, I forgot how to spell.

Oh. Right. Thanks.

for nothing.

Butt in your own place.

Fuck, I'm not getting my car back after all today. I've been over a month with this stupid rental.

@Mitch Kiss mine.

@Robusto Sweet. Come visit, I'll make lasagna.

again, thanks for nothing.

8:03 PM

@KitFox Sweet? How is not having my car sweet?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ok wtf?

user image

@Robusto Because it's not wear and tear on your vehicle. You can be aggressive.

@KitFox yeah, really, try to stop making sense because what you're doing now is failing miserably.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that's not a wtf it's totally deserved.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You got some kind of problem with that?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox uh... no ma'am.

8:04 PM

@KitFox I hate the piece of shit Dodge they rented me. It's an affront to my appreciation of automobiles. Also, it smells like cigarette smoke.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 kind of insulting to douchebags everywhere.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 ... douchbag.

@Robusto Oh well. That does suck. At least they won't smell the crack.

@Robusto depends on the kind o cigarette.

@KitFox you'd know. what does crack smell like?

wait.

don't go there.

stop.

points and laughs @Mitch

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

How is it that I'm still here?

8:07 PM

Fuck it, I'm going for a walk.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto You should walk it, and go for a fuck instead

2

Sounds good to me.

I don't think that came out the way I meant it.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 so limber!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch That's what your mom said

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 said the bishop to... you!

8:08 PM

No, that's what I said to his mom.

@KitFox My mom is dead you assholes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch That's why it's so surprising

I know. That's why she was so limber.

Go to hell.

Screw you. I'm outta here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:11 PM

no, screw you first, you power-mad bitch!

I assume all this is in jest.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Doesn't it trouble you to think that the N4 has only 720ishp, while many new phones have 1080p?

If you buy a N4 this month, it will be outdated already.

They also have larger screens, as in 5–6".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus 5-6" screens are too big for my pocket. I don't consider those "improvements".

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am in doubt.

An extra 0.3 inches?

I read a report by this guy who used a Nexus 7 as his "phone" for a week.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you doubt the size of my pockets, and what I find comfortable in there? I find the GN is already too big.

Carried it around in his pocket.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am in doubt as to what to think of these larger screens and my pockets.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think we have had similar conversations. What is your main problem with the size of the GN again?

It feels a bit large when I'm riding my bike.

Otherwise, I don't notice it.

How about if the screen were curved? Might that help?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:19 PM

@Cerberus I find it too large. When it's in my pocket, and I sit down, sometimes it is uncomfortable. However, I like the screen size when I'm using it. So I think it is at the upper limit of screen size that I would buy for a phone. It's past the fully-comfortable limit already. Any larger is only going to be worse.

@Cerberus I doubt it.

You know a major reason why the Iphone can't get any bigger? Poor design. They put their Back button at the top-left, the hardest corner to reach. They would need to change their entire OS + all IOS applications to accommodate larger screens, or suffer additional inconvenience (greater inconvenience than Android).

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm how come it is uncomfortable for you, but not for me? How tight are your trousers?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Flexible?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The "back button", or lack of it, in iphone is one of the things I hate most about iphones.

Lack of it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I guess it would depend on how flexible it was.

Because it is not always consistently there throughout all applications?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:22 PM

@Cerberus yeah, there's no back button. There's just in-app navigation to other parts of the app.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Let's say fairly flexible.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 astounded

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Example: You're in one app, and something causes a second app to appear. There is no way to leave that app and go back to your first app in one press.

I actually never realised this.

I thought it was just in the upper left corner in the OS.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, that's where most apps, by convention, put a "back" button. But it's just in-app back.

So you need to use Home all the time?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:23 PM

You can't back out of the browser back into the email back into the previous app.

@Cerberus as far as I can tell. I try to avoid doing anything on the iphone.

As do I.

It must be said, however, that the Android back button often does unpredictable things.

You need to learn what it does for every application.

Experiment and memorise.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Example: I unlock the phone, and go into email. Then in an email I click a link which starts the browser. I see no way to get back to the email app.

Really?

So you have to use the task-switcher?

Is that convenient?

Quick?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

task switcher?

Oh, dear. They have no such thing?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:26 PM

If there is a task switcher, I haven't found it. Maybe my version of iOS is too old.

Surely there is one?

I have seen this ehm window where you have to press little red crosses on application icons.

Could there be a Back button in IOS 6?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

no idea. All I know is that I barely use the iphone and the navigation bugs me because as soon as I try to use TWO apps I get lost and annoyed. Whereas on Android I rarely do. There are a few apps that do it wrong, but most good apps get it right.

Facebook gets it pretty wrong though. Even their new, native app is annoying. You click on a notification and it puts you in a facebook page that you can't back out of, or else it closes facebook. I'm always surprised when that happens.

(for me: surprised = they're getting it wrong)

(The problem isn't me)

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Which version of IOS?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 You're using the Facebook application on Android?

I thought it was problematic?

Performance issues, battery drain, privacy drain, cumbersome interface...

I just use Facebook in the browser.

Works fine.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus 4.2.1, that's the latest this iphone supports

I don't need more notifications. Facebook is a low-priority thing.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm that's two versions out of date, not entirely fair.

Although Android 2 was probably better already.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:36 PM

@Cerberus yes, I use the facebook app. It wasn't all that bad. There have been some versions that drained the battery but usually it wasn't a big deal. It's no worse for privacy than using facebook. Better, in fact, if your browser isn't logged into facebook.

@Cerberus Well, it's the 4th version of the OS. Anyway there may be a task switcher now, but there still isn't a proper back-button.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Well, doesn't it want access your contacts and such? And how about your location?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Apple should consider fixing its software.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, it has access to your contacts, but facebook isn't stealing your contacts. It has that permission so that they can implement the "find friends" feature. Similarly with location. You can attach location to posts, it doesn't do that unless you tell it to.

@Cerberus Why? they're the most profitable phone maker around.

People who care about quality software use android.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do you know it doesn't, unless you use LBE or Pdroid?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Not in the long term.

Well, I went for a walk and it started to rain. I should have gone for the fuck like Mrs. Hiny recommended.

Whither?

8:46 PM

Out.

As in outside. Not much good walking around inside my house. Too boring.

Although, to be fair, it doesn't rain in here.

I didn't know straights used parks and woods like that.

I thought there were only for homosexuals married to women.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus well, I don't. But if I trusted Facebook so little, I certainly wouldn't be a member.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What makes you think they won't store some of the info from your contact list somewhere?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus First of all, Facebook already has lots of my contact list on their website, because my contacts are facebook users. Second of all, I trust that facebook isn't rifling through my contact list and surreptitiously stealing data. Other companies have been caught doing that and there has been an uproar. People pay attention to every little thing Facebook does.

Who says it's surreptitious?

8:51 PM

@Cerberus Who said anything about parks and woods?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If the do access my contact list, they do it with my permission, and sure, they probably store what info they collect. But I know that, and if I activate the "find friends from my contact list" feature, then I must be okay with that.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I think the whole privacy ship sailed once you signed on to Facebook.

And my question is, why are you okay with that?

@Robusto Depends on what you put out there.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto The privacy ship sailed once any one of my friends signed on to facebook.

@Cerberus Anything you put out there is, well, out there.

8:52 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 True.

Or once one of your friends decided to share his contact list with an application.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Who says I am? Did I say I used that feature?

@Cerberus yeah, exactly

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Did you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No.

How do you know?

Is it not automatically enabled by Facebook?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Facebook says "Do you want us to go through your contacts and see who's a member?" and I clicked "no"

8:54 PM

All right.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The irritating thing about Facebook was that when I signed up it showed me a link that said "Import friends from contacts list ..." Note the "..." It is important. It is a UI convention that "..." means further dialogue will ensue, and you will get to make choices. Instead, this thing goes right to my contact list and starts dumping EVERYBODY, including chimney repairmen, plumbers, people I no longer worked with and didn't want to see anymore, etc.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

anyway it hardly matters. When I first joined facebook, enough people had invited me, or let facebook go through their contact lists, that facebook already knew my friends.

@Robusto Did you ever click "yes" there and actually give Facebook your e-mail password?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Well, also some of them might have had YOU in THEIR lists and that's why FB makes the suggestion.

The FB in Facebook ought to stand for "freeballing" ... because that's how exposed you are.

8:56 PM

I don't want my e-mail password to be at more than one company in the world.

One opportunity for a security breach is enough.

@Cerberus No. I was using a Mac at the time and it went for the Contacts app. I managed to kill the process once I realized what was happening, but some damage had already been done.

@Robusto Exposed...depends on what you put on your pages.

@Robusto Oh wow, how is that possible? How can it access your contacts app from the browser?

Or did you install some Facebook programme?

Only Google can haz all my sensitive infos.

If Google turns evil, it has me by the everything.

@Cerberus I don't need complete strangers as "friends" ... period.

@Cerberus Didn't you hear? They've made a slight change in their motto: ~~Don't~~ Be Evil.

Really? But then how will you get the nice and flashy number "2000" next to "Friends"?

@Robusto The Windows Phone / Google Maps affair was pretty bad, yes.

And they may sell some data on you.

What else?

@Cerberus I have no desire for 2,000 "friends"; I have enough trouble keeping up with the couple dozen real friends I do want to keep up with.

8:59 PM

Oh, and they are patent-trolling a bit, also bad.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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