English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

4:00 PM

indeed

Then again, Western prices are mostly made up of transport, marketing, middle-men...the raw material probably makes up 5 % of the price or less.

So you will hardly notice. Unless supermarkets are unfair (...).

Matt Эллен

yeah, but farmers can't make enough for the market

so they can't make enough money

so they will go out of business and beans will disappear

they're all subsistence farmers anyway

plus wild arabica plants are almost extinct

@RegDwighт where did it rain chutney?

RegDwighт

Hopefully nowhere.

0

Q: Proper tense and form of questions

Would next questions demonstrate a proper English usage? Please, write rigorous explanations. Do you start understanding something? Are you starting to understand something?

Please, write rigorous explanations.

Matt Эллен

oh. I am indeed lucky that something that hasn't happened didn't happen to me

Cerberus

@MattЭллен If supply is reduced, they can demand higher prices.

Matt Эллен

4:07 PM

is it rigorous if i hit the keys really hard?

@Cerberus true, but that will not make more beans grow. eventually the beans will disappear when the places they can grow disappear sometime in the next 100 years

oh, not, that's vigourous

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Only if no beans can grow at all.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus exactly. no beans will be able to grow at all.

user19161

@MattЭллен vigorous

Matt Эллен

this is the prediction of coffee scientists, anyway

user19161

I have a Chrome question for you computer gurus.

RegDwighт

4:10 PM

0

Q: Tongue twister - Which one is correct?

How the below two sentences differs in the meaning? She sells sea shells by the sea shore. She sells sea shells on the sea shore.

grammaticality

Oh come on.

Matt Эллен

/pacefarm

user19161

Can anyone tell me what Chrome Native Client plugin is? I googled but don't get it. Should I enable or disable it?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен But is that really true?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasonBourne you don't need it.

Cerberus

@JasonBourne extremetech.com/computing/…

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:12 PM

Unless you already know that you need it.

user19161

@reg How is sea shells GR?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I'm not a coffee growing scientist, so I can only tell you what I read. Although part of me thinks what they really mean is that the beans that do grow will be of sufficiently inferior quality that noöne will buy the coffee

RegDwighт

@JasonBourne how is the difference between "by" and "on" not GR?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I rather think it means harvests will be significantly worse.

MετάEd

@JasonBourne He's got you there.

RegDwighт

4:13 PM

Not to mention that the title asks which one is grammatical, while the body assumes both are.

Cerberus

That is the problem with certain environmentalists: I kind of support their ulterior purpose, but they are scaremongers and doomsayers.

user19161

@Cerberus Yes dear, I have read that already but it's too complicated for me.

Cerberus

Hmm OK.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus maybe.

Cerberus

If it is too complicated for you, then it will be for me.

user19161

4:15 PM

@RegDwighт However, in this case, the sea shore complicates matters.

RegDwighт

@JasonBourne on the shore means on the shore. By the shore means by the shore.

Plus, you are not supposed to do the leg work for the OP.

user19161

If a shore is beside the sea, is being beside the shore also beside the sea so that by the shore is on the shore?

user19161

This might be a better fit for Geography SE.

Matt Эллен

@JasonBourne you won't need it unless you intend to buy apps for chrome that use it.

user19161

What is a shore? That is the question.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

4:17 PM

@JasonBourne NaCl is a kind of protected sandbox mode where you can run programs that come from the internet. Unlike, say, Java, which uses a virtual machine, NaCl just restricts the kinds of operations that the code can do. The code is x86 machine code. Therefore, any suitably compiled program that avoids forbidden operations could be NaCl, and could run with the same performance as a native app, because it is a native app.

RegDwighт

@JasonBourne no, that is your question. The question is "Tongue twister - Which one is correct?"

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Would you participate in ELL?

user19161

@RegDwighт The answer to that is: The one that twists your tongue more.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I have commited to ELL and in fact proposed it.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Native as in native to Windows?

RegDwighт

4:18 PM

AFK xeroxing stuff.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Native as in Native to x86

Cerberus

@RegDwighт So yes? And what would you do with this question on ELL?

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So.

Cerberus

What does that mean in practice?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus native to the processor architecture not the OS

Cerberus

4:20 PM

Yeah okay I get that, but what effect does that have?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus It depends.

Matt Эллен

c is faster than javascript, so more interesting things are achievable

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Reading the wikipedia page, it seems that NaCl has its own "system calls", so no, it does not directly expose the Windows API. But it does expose OpenGL.

user19161

Also, I don't think I need to install Java anymore. None of the sites I visit use it.

Matt Эллен

good plan.

user19161

4:23 PM

And Java seems to have many security issues too.

Cerberus

Oh OK.

So isn't this native client vulnerable?

I have Java disabled, but I enable it by hand when I need it.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus possibly. it is meant to be double sandboxed, so things can't get out.

user19161

Also, I don't think I need Silverlight either. In fact, there is no Silverlight for Linux except the very primitive Moonlight which doesn't work.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus The whole idea of NaCl is that Google put some smart people on building a secure way of running native code. Unlike Microsoft, who put smart people on building a flexible way of running native code, and punted security to the user.

Anyway I have a meeting, so cya later

Matt Эллен

cu

user19161

4:25 PM

But the one thing that everyone still needs is ... Flash!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Meant to be...

Robusto

I don't use NaCl because too much salt contributes to high blood pressure.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Later!

user19161

@Robusto This is too scientific for this room.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I would have answered it.

Matt Эллен

4:25 PM

@Cerberus well I mean I don't know, I've not looked at the source, but that's what they say, so it's probably true.

Cerberus

@Robusto How insipid.

@RegDwighт Okay.

Robusto

@Cerberus NO UR.

Cerberus

I eat salt.

@MattЭллен Uh-huh...

Matt Эллен

eat salt and die

user19161

I don't think Flash is dead yet. It will continue to flourish the next decade...

Matt Эллен

4:27 PM

all browsers will deactivate flash tomorrow

Robusto

Flash is dead as disco. I only use it now for YouTube. I turn it off everywhere else.

Matt Эллен

oops! I still have my future predicting hat on

user19161

And youtube is alive.

RegDwighт

I thought YouTube was HTML5 now.

Matt Эллен

still alive

Cerberus

4:28 PM

@JasonBourne You mean Flash will continue to rot the next decade...

user19161

Also, dailymotion.

Cerberus

I have to use Flash all the time, unfortunately.

Robusto

@RegDwighт Last time I went there it told me I needed Flash. Hmm, maybe that was something else.

Cerberus

YT has an opt-in HTML5 player.

But it sucked the last time I tried it.

Even more so than the Flash player.

user19161

@Cerberus It plays a small fraction of all the videos currently.

Robusto

4:30 PM

What I don't like about Flash is that it permits a much higher degree of individual identification, because it is able to poll the fonts you have installed on your system. This helps provide a signature that can identify you within seven digits of accuracy.

Jez

HTML5-based video makes it impossible to impose DRM and forced advertising

RegDwighт

No idea what YouTube uses or how it works. For me it mostly doesn't work anyway.

I only know that Flash crashes on startup in this latest and greatest FF under this latest and greatest Ubuntu.

So I guess I can do without.

Cerberus

@JasonBourne Oh, right. Well, I used it for a while, and this fraction was not quite small.

user19161

@RegDwighт Yes, it is so on DeadFlashland.

RegDwighт

Come to think of it, YouTube crashes all the time as well. So I guess they do still use Flash.

Cerberus

4:32 PM

@Robusto That, too. But the fact that it steals keyboard input added to the fact that it is insecure and buggy make me want to punch it even more.

user19161

@RegDwighт Might be the browser.

Cerberus

@Jez Still, they are working towards the switch to HTML5...

@RegDwighт Really? It rarely crashes for me.

RegDwighт

@JasonBourne no, it's YouTube. They show me the 30-second commercials before the videos just fine. But as soon as the actual video starts, Flash crashes.

Cerberus

What does happen a lot is that Flash shows a black screen in full-screen.

Matt Эллен

Cerberus

4:33 PM

Sp I have to restart the browser.

user19161

@RegDwighт They want you to watch the ad again!

Jez

those enforced ads... it's like going back to crappy TV all over again

Cerberus

Ah! Your program again!

@Jez Uhh why not use Adblock?

Matt Эллен

yeah, I was feeling bored

RegDwighт

@JasonBourne I know all their ads by heart now. They also run on TV.

Jez

4:33 PM

@Cerberus if that works at the moment, it's only because youtube lets it

they could easily refuse to serve videos unless you viewed ads

Cerberus

It has always worked.

RegDwighт

And here's the real kicker: I can fast-forward through the stupid commercials on my TV now, but no longer on YouTube. This is perverse.

user19161

The /about still doesn't appear on main.

Jez

so the youtube player just gives up and skips to the main vid if the advert vid is unavailable?

Cerberus

@Jez They don't like to do that, because it makes their entire website depend on the reliability and availability of ad networks and ad servers.

RegDwighт

4:34 PM

0

Q: Conjunction and Prepsoition

What is the difference between a conjunction and a preposition? I went through the following two pages, but still I am not clear. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_(grammar) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interjection

part-of-speech

Is this some sort of practical joke?

Cerberus

@Jez I wouldn't know: the last time I saw an ad or anything but the video is ten years ago. Or never.

Robusto

@Cerberus I would like to see you punch Flash. Please post a video on YouTube when you do.

Matt Эллен

Jez

@Cerberus if their website is serving ad vids as well as normal vids, it will be the same servers

RegDwighт

I want to know the difference between conjunction and prepsoition, so I looked up conjunction and interjection, but that didn't help.

user19161

4:35 PM

The about says that good answers are voted up and rise to the top. They forgot to say that bad answers rise even more.

RegDwighт

Where's @Rob's WTF closing reason?

Robusto

@RegDwighт Rookie move. You need to look up conjunction and injunction.

Cerberus

RegDwighт

@Cerberus what a pointless waste of pixels that image is.

Cerberus

@Jez But that's never how it works, I believe? Advertisers need to be able to automatically serve their stuff and change it, or something.

Robusto

4:37 PM

May 14 '12 at 14:36, by Robusto

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I know. I couldn't find anything.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт he's changed it to conjunction and preposition (and postposition, which is the same page)

RegDwighт

I mean, it's not even a stock image. It's pure, distilled uselessness.

Jez

@Cerberus if I were an advertiser putting ads on youtube i'd probably want youtube to host it

user19161

@Cerberus Are you trying to get me excited?

Robusto

4:37 PM

@Cerberus YouBoobs.

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен okay, then I will go with the TL;DR reason.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Nice, huh? And don't you like the utterly non-working visual mataphor of Youtube's being on a flat surface inside her glove?

I mean, why would Youtube be in some girl's glove?

user19161

So the about appears at the bottom and not at the top, interesting.

Cerberus

@Jez And yet that's usually not how it works, is it?

user19161

But the faq appears in both places.

Matt Эллен

4:38 PM

@JasonBourne something SE should consider changing IMO

user19161

@MattЭллен But do we really need both faq and about?

user19161

I think we should merge them.

Matt Эллен

yes, they explain different things

user19161

They can all be merged.

user19161

Also, in case you haven't heard, I announce for the third time the Mozilla Shumway project which will play flash if successful.

Robusto

4:41 PM

Are you going to stop at three?

user19161

Yes. It's just too important yet unknown though...

Matt Эллен

It's already twenty to five. to late to stop at three

see you boobs later

user19161

@MattЭллен too

RegDwighт

Gotta run.

You handle the prepsoition guy.

Robusto

Read the part of the prepositions article where it talks about overlaps with other parts of speech. — Robusto 27 secs ago

Already did.

@MattЭллен Why would you want to see Jasper's boobs?

David Wallace

4:51 PM

@Cerberus Sorry, dude!

Cerberus

@DavidWallace It's OK. But please just leave me out of this OK?

David Wallace

I'm trying. And I don't think I ever put you in it. But sorry, anyway.

I know I've said this before, but I think I'm leaving now.

Cerberus

Doesn't it irk you how even the best newspapers often make terrible grammar mistakes?

And spelling.

I could be a letter-sender!!

The "best" newspaper in my country is NRC Handelsblad.

I sent the editor of an article an e-mail explaining to her how one properly edits a quotation, removing typos and fixing grammar if the exact spelling is not important.

Without replying to me, she did indeed edit it, but now she significantly reworded the entire quotation.

At least she saw that what she had was no good.

But this rewording, it's just not something you do.

Either you paraphrase someone, or you quote him. No paraphrase in quotation marks!

Robusto

Standards have gone way down, and continue to do so.

MετάEd

5:12 PM

@Cerberus Think of it as creating a market opportunity.

Go into the business.

Cerberus

@MετάEd It is one of the most competitive businesses ever, along with theatre.

But I'm afraid being a good writer is not an essential quality to come out on top.

MετάEd

@Cerberus You don't think so? The New Yorker is still going strong after almost 88 years.

Good quality has staying power.

I'm not saying The New Yorker isn't a stick in the mud. But they're a quality stick in the mud.

user19161

Hi @grace long time no see.

Grace Note

Hey there

Cerberus

@MετάEd NRC is generally high quality too, and it is still going strong after nearly 200 years.

Or what is it, 184 years.

But newspapers are always complaining about fewer subscribers and such, and everyone wants to be a journalist here.

MετάEd

5:20 PM

@Cerberus Any business can go bad. Maybe NRC will start to lose market share over quality. It should, if the industry is so competitive.

Cerberus

It's still fairly high quality, the core is not rotten. It's just that spelling and grammar are only edited properly on the front page.

@GraceNote Yo.

Grace Note

Heyhey

Cerberus

Another thing: if you read a specialist publication about something, and compare it a newspaper article on the same topic, you will always see lower quality and mistakes, even, in the latter.

That is unfortunate, but unavoidable and natural.

If you happen to be well informed about a certain topic, you will always notice this in newspapers.

@MετάEd Do all daily papers in your country have a sports section and some sports news on the front page?

Even the best ones?

Here they do, unfortunately.

MετάEd

@Cerberus I haven't looked at a "paper" paper in some time. I couldn't tell you.

Cerberus

Oh.

Why not?

I must say I read the NRC website more than I read the paper paper nowadays.

user19161

5:28 PM

@MετάEd I look at toilet paper every day.

Cerberus

But huddling up on the safe with the fat weekend paper is so comfortable!

A teapot within reach.

MετάEd

@JasonBourne Readable toilet paper?

@Joe Zeng: If you're happy to use terms like trip-on-your-laces feel, I think you can probably use and/or. At least the latter has the advantage of being generally understood, which I can't believe applies to the former. — FumbleFingers 34 mins ago

Robusto

We kept home delivery of the paper because of our cat, who liked to lie on the pages. After he died, we found no further use for it. Electronic is just easier. But cats don't care for it as much.

Cerberus

5:46 PM

@Robusto But reading off a screen...?

Don't you find paper more comfortable?

Robusto

Not really. There are some advantages, but overall I like electronic delivery better.

Cerberus

It doesn't emit light; it weighs little; it is not fragile; and it has a larger surface.

Robusto

Mahlzeit.

Cerberus

Bai.

Oh, and it is not expensive.

said he, while posting a picture from the website of his newspaper

Women in Jakarta.

Mitch

5:58 PM

maybe already commented on...

http://english.stackexchange.com/a/100387/4972

> Its not an answer from me rather its a query if someone cud help me out........ Actually one of my friends' moter died n he wrote " we r goin to miss u like hell mom"...... Now my question is weather this is correct English he used..........as I think, its wrong.......cud any body comment on this please.......

Yes. Yes, I can comment. That's sad.

@Cerberus doesn't bother me at all. I don't read any more. all through hearing. and my ear filters through all the grammatical nonsense, and tends to leave me with semantic nonsense. always....

...like "What the hell are they talking about? That's crazy!"

@JasonBourne But do you really appreciate what it's telling you?

Cerberus

@Mitch Ah, you don't read any more. I see.

Mitch

What? I can't hear you.

Cerberus

HOW ABOUT NOW?

►

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The new Blackberry OS looks pretty interesting! Android could learn something from those gestures.

Mitch

I don't particularly care for the online newspapers. I prefer the paper ones but I feel bad for throwing away all that paper after only glancing at the headlines, reading the first and last paragraph of some articles, then reading the editorials.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Of course we have GMD Gesture Control, but it isn't as smooth and well integrated as the BB gestures.

Mitch

6:09 PM

I really haven't found many errors (hardly none at all)

'we'?

as in 'we have GMD gestures'?

Cerberus

@Mitch Yeah, kind of. I used to read most of the paper on most days, until they changed the front page to no longer contain an overview of the articles.

Now the front page only has 2 articles or so, and usually not the most interesting ones.

Mitch

@Cerberus I know.

Cerberus

Do you?

You know an awful lot, for a person who doesn't read.

Mitch

A week ago I did happen to be reading the newspaper (really, I hardly ever do), and way back on page 20 was some article on the French and Mali and killing and stuff, and I thought, wow I hadn't heard of that, that sounds really serious, why isn't much more front page. But now it is all front page.

@Cerberus I know! right? That's how awesome I am.

Cerberus

@Mitch Was this about the French army sending troops and matériel to a neighbouring country in preparation of the invasion?

I knew France was ready to act. I just didn't know when they would do so.

Mitch

6:20 PM

@Cerberus yes

I had no idea about it at all (US news...you suck)

Well, now it's all they're talking about.

Cerberus

Hmm.

The news on television, you mean?

That always sucks.

It has been dumbed down into oblivion here.

Newspapers are still good, though.

Mitch

But it's the usual 'It's all about the US' how the US might or might not get involved. STFU. It's not always about the US.

Cerberus

Heh.

Well, I can image that warrants a paragraph. It is relevant for American viewers if the news is on American television.

> Apple refuses to talk to Dutch consumer organisation

Mitch

@Cerberus no I don't watch TV news at all, makes my skin crawl (when it is attempting to be intelligent) or not entertaining enough when it's the local news (which is mostly about somebody getting shot, or a cat got run over).

Mahnax

@Cerberus cumsumer??

Mitch

6:23 PM

@Cerberus sure, but it seems like they -start- off with that attitude.

Cerberus

The arrogance. This really is a faux pas. Apple will regret this: no company ever ignores the Consumentenbond.

Mitch

@Mahnax yuck?

Cerberus

@Mahnax Um oops! Con- and cum are equivalent in Latin.

@Mitch Oh good.

Mitch

@Cerberus is that what we're speaking? I thought it was prose.

Cerberus

@Mitch Oh that's silly. But then I think that happens in all countries.

Mitch

6:24 PM

@Cerberus cat hater.

Mahnax

@Mitch Yeah.

Cerberus

You wouldn't believe the coverage given to the Dutch Patriot Missiles that might be, were going to, we in the process of being, were stationed in Turkey against Syrian missiles.

Mitch

@Cerberus Ha ha. yeah. stupid people.

Cerberus

@Mitch I meant good for you that you don't watch television. I love cats!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Do you have any pets?

Cerberus

6:26 PM

@Mitch Yeah, I mean, the fact that NATO was asked to send Patriots to Turkey, fine. Mention that some Patriots will be sent from Holland, also fine. But that should be enough.

@Mahnax Nope.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Thought so.

Cerberus

I would like to have a cat, but it would have to be able to go outside.

And that would be very hard here.

Mitch

@Cerberus I watch television, but there's lots I just won't bother with.

@Cerberus isn't your town covered with feral cats? taking care of what would otherwise be a rat problem?

@Cerberus inside you have to clean up their poop all the time (from a litter box, but still)

and a dog you have to take for walks all the time, as much work as a small child, and there's no expectation that they will take over the family business.

Cerberus

@Mitch Hmm not exactly? People have cats, and I see cats walking around town daily, but I don't think any are stray cats.

@Mitch Ugh, I wouldn't even consider a litter box.

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh. so the outdoor cat idea could work for you.

Cerberus

6:32 PM

And I'm not a huge dog fan. And walking it would be a no-no.

@Mitch The only cat for me!

My parents never had a litter box either, except when the cats were little.

Cats should come and go as they please. You just give them food and healthcare and love.

They take what they want, when they want it.

Mitch

@Cerberus they should all come and go as they please (dogs with a little more attention though)

user19161

Hey guys it is so fun deleting all your comments from day 1.

Mitch

Cats will steal your child's breath.

@JasonBourne That doesn't seem fair.

user19161

@Mitch Well, comments are second class citizens and are used for clarification. The question or answer should be self-contained.

Mitch

@JasonBourne It's not fair that Jason seems to be having so much fun doin it, and we can't do it back to him. That is what is unfair.

user19161

6:39 PM

@Mitch Oh, I see. Of course, after I do this, many threads won't make sense, but they are not meant to anyway.

Mitch

why are you doing that?

make sure you keep the jokes.

user19161

I like to keep the site clean. I am a minimalist.

user19161

Hello @aedia! I miss you! I am JL, in case you dunno.

Mitch

How are you doing that? did you get that power after 25K?

aedia λ

Hey all!

Cerberus

6:41 PM

@Mitch Is it safe for dogs to let them walk around town by their own? One rarely sees that? And won't they poop on the pavement and it people's gardens?

Dog poop is horrible.

@aediaλ Yoo!! If it isn't my fav unicorn!

@JasonBourne What? I hope you are not deleting my comments?

user19161

@Cerberus I am deleting my own comments I mean. I can't delete others'.

Mitch

@Cerberus re waliking around...yeah I guess you're right, they'll makes 'friends' which ends up being a pack. as to poop, aren't cats doing that too? But maybe cats aren't so indiscriminant where they go.

Cerberus

@JasonBourne Why? Why take away sense from threads? That is bad!

@JasonBourne Oh, okay.

Mitch

@JasonBourne ooohhhh. WHy didn't you say so.

But then really why bother.

user19161

@Mitch I thought you knew.

aedia λ

6:42 PM

@KitFox I have no idea how you knew yesterday was the day I was going to come back. I got foiled by having to put the lasagna in the oven. But I'm here now.

Mitch

Knew what?

user19161

@Mitch Only mods can delete others' comments.

Cerberus

@Mitch Cats certainly do that, but they bury their poop and only do it on diggable surfaces, so not on the pavement. But in gardens, yeah.

Mitch

@aediaλ Kit was 'here' here a moment ago but must have just left.

Cerberus

Their poop is much smaller.

Nobody ever died from stepping into cat poop, because it just never happens.

Mitch

6:43 PM

Yeah, there's that.

aedia λ

@JasonBourne Hiya! I can tell it's you from your writing style :)

Cerberus

@aediaλ Bad lasagne, bad! smacks lasagne

aedia λ

@Cerberus Yay!

Cerberus

Have you any more perverted insects to show us?

aedia λ

@Cerberus Heh, it doesn't deserve it. It turned out pretty well.

Mitch

6:45 PM

@Cerberus Don't blame the lasagna.

jinx

Cerberus

@aediaλ @Mitch Hrmpf very well, then.

aedia λ

@Cerberus I haven't! I've killed some of these scary bugs lately, and gotten pretty good at it, but no pictures...

Mitch

gotta run. please go on without me. Topic for discussion: "The Singularity has already occurred, roughly late 19th c". Discuss.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Great, great. What's your favourite method for killing wasps?

@Mitch Uhhh we will pretend to have discussed it, when you return. Is that OK?

aedia λ

@Cerberus Ugh. I ... don't? I send someone else up there with a can of really horrible spray stuff and hide indoors and do the other construction projects that don't involve wasps.

Would we know if the singularity had already happened?

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