English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-08-20 (page 4 of 8)

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RegDwight АΑA

1:00 PM

I get presented with 30 random posts. I've read the top three. Does that count as me having had a look at all 30?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA do you see things to review?

@RegDwightАΑA oh, if you click on the "review" link under each post, that counts as reviewing it

Or if you use the link to get to the post, that counts too.

@MattЭллен The rhyme scheme is super cool: notice the half-line rhymes. Tom Shippey wrote a bit about this unique meter. Hm, have you noticed that poetic meters have feet in them? :)

RegDwight АΑA

user image

@MattЭллен oh.

I didn't even notice it.

@RegDwightАΑA Meh is just hem backwards. Ring me when you start to haw.

So that I might wah you.

RegDwight АΑA

1:03 PM

Okay. So for the time being, I'll just gnir you.

Better than the bouquets of gnipmenots you usually regale me with.

YA!NETUT.

RegDwight АΑA

Anyway, and perhaps you might wish to include it in one of your MSO questions: I'd argue that anyone with 3000+ edits should get the mythril badge automatically and immediately and with no further strings attached.

Or do they want to tell me that all those posts were excellent to begin with?

@Rob: Are you suggesting that my answers are too long?

They are usually quite short.

@RegDwightАΑA That other Copy Editor was getting all haughty about the edit business.

I have only a few long ones.

1:05 PM

@Cerberus However do you find the time to write short answers?

Matt Эллен

so

And those really required that much text.

RegDwight АΑA

@tchrist I seeed that.

@tchrist You just scribble down your first thought, bam.

So why do we have two green heads?

@Cerberus Well sure, but if it fits in the comment sizemax, I usually put it there. Anything else goes in an answer, and I never have time to keep those short.

@Cerberus Because they’re jealous of your third one.

1:08 PM

0

Q: Is there a coma after and/or before though in a sentence?

Is there a coma after and/or before though in a sentence? For example, I am talking about a method that is very slow. At the end of the paragraph I say: We will see in the following sections though that there is a workaround to reduce the exponential explosion of the computational time.

Matt Эллен

I can't help the way I was born

a "coma"?

@tchrist I am trying to determine whether you appreciate brevity or not.

Matt Эллен

@Jez not for me!

@tchrist And right they should be.

Matt Эллен

1:08 PM

is still awake

@Jez A boredom-induced coma. Yes.

@Cerberus Well, you clearly do not, or you wouldn’t have said “or not” there at the end.

You know very well that the "or not" has a function.

@Jez NB: el coma ≠ la coma. :)

To komma.

1:09 PM

@Cerberus I know about the NAND operator, but NOR is already taken.

This train of thought is like a monorail.

Matt Эллен

did somebody say monorail?

I.e. novel and a tad simple.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus It is? Mine is like Yggdrasil’s ever-ramifying branches.

1:11 PM

Who's that?

Matt Эллен

the world tree, maybe?

I only recognise the trees of Valinor.

In Norse mythology, Yggdrasil (; from Old Norse Yggdrasill, pronounced ) is an immense tree that is central in Norse cosmology, on which the nine worlds existed. Yggdrasil is attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, and the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson. In both sources, Yggdrasil is an immense ash tree that is central and considered very holy. The gods go to Yggdrasil daily to assemble at their things. The branches of Yggdrasil extend far into the heavens, and the tree is supported by three roots that exten...

@Cerberus Do you recognize which was the elder tree, Laurelin or Telperion?

I...forgot which one was older, if either. I believe they caught the light of ehm what were they called, the world lamps, Illuin and something something, or something?

Perhaps it was not Illuin.

That sounds more like a mountain.

I see an o, an l, an s.

But I can't make a word out of it.

Do you remember the names?

Without looking them up, of course.

Illuin is right for one of the lamps.

1:15 PM

Oh!

I was just looking for the link for you.

Yay.

Telperion was the elder of the two.

I see.

But not the alder. :)

1:16 PM

I remember the sun lamp had a more fiery-sounding name.

Have you ever browsed the Tolkien questions on Scifi.SE?

Some cool answers between them.

Matt Эллен

Science Fiction and Fantasy

Not of late, I have not.

I can't believe how much I remember from LotR, even though I read it when I was 11 or so, never really reread it.

In days gone by, I once did, or twice.

@MattЭллен Like that.

1:18 PM

Tall ships and tall kings / Three times three, / What brought they from the foundered land / Over the flowing sea? / Seven stars and seven stones / And one white tree.

I remember that.

Was it those three times three that became the nine? I should think not?

‘How long, I wonder, has he been constrained to come often to his glass for inspection and instruction, and the Orthanc-stone so bent towards Barad-dûr that, if any save a will of adamant now looks into it, it will bear his mind and sight swiftly thither? And how it draws one to itself! Have I not felt it? Even now my heart desires to test my will upon it, to see if I could not wrench it from him and turn it where I would-to look across the wide seas of water and of time to Tirion the Fair, and perceive the unimaginable hand and mind of Fëanor at their work, while both the White Tree and t…

I remember that scene.

He is talking to Pippin, isn't he?

Nine ships brought Elendil and his sons out of the ruin of Númenor, each bearing one of the palantíri, and one bearing a sapling of Nimloth the Fair which Isildur has stolen.

The palantíri proved useful for those late-night cell-phone calls between ships.

Ah, yes, those nine.

1:24 PM

/*
 *   'Mercy!' cried Gandalf.  'If the giving of information is to be the cure
 * of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering
 * you.  What more do you want to know?'
 *   'The names of all the stars, and of all living things, and the whole
 * history of Middle-earth and Over-heaven and of the Sundering Seas,'
 * laughed Pippin.
 *
 *     [p.599 of _The Lord of the Rings_, III/xi: "The Palantír"]
 */

Like most software projects, each component source file in the Perl distribution begins with a long block comment that explains the purpose of that file. Unlike most projects, in Perl that comment is always allusory, a citation from Tolkien.

Good luck with that.

How dreadful.

bows

I hate it when people choose to be clever rather than useful.

@KitFox There is embedded pod for actual documentation. Think of the leading quotes as capitular epigrams such as one finds in a proper book.

Which serve what purpose?

1:28 PM

Grace.

What purpose do epigrams serve in a book?

I don't regard code comments as holy text.

Eh?

Epigrams there are a waste of my personal bandwidth.

Then you have the wrong sort of thinking needed for this project.

What project is that now?

1:30 PM

There are others to which your hand might be more fruitfully applied.

Your holy text comment shows what happens when context is lost, as has it been here.

Lord, three bloody paragraphs of Tolkien before breakfast and already my syntax has warped into literary mode.

showers

I have no idea what you are talking about.

RegDwight АΑA

Bah the old review page is unusable. I keep clicking on the answer proper rather than on the "review" link underneath.

@tchrist Perfect.

Matt Эллен

my arms look skinny, but my belly looks plump and there's ample cushioning protruding from my rump

claps

Matt Эллен

1:35 PM

bows

So I never heard from anyone. Is Anka a common nickname for Anastasia?

@KitFox I agree that there should be a way to by-pass such things and read a clear explanation when necessary.

/*    hv.c
 *
 *    Copyright (C) 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000,
 *    2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 by Larry Wall and others
 *
 *    You may distribute under the terms of either the GNU General Public
 *    License or the Artistic License, as specified in the README file.
 *
 */

/*
 *      I sit beside the fire and think
 *          of all that I have seen.
 *                         --Bilbo
 *
 *     [p.278 of _The Lord of the Rings_, II/iii: "The Ring Goes South"]

@KitFox Yeah, does this quotation hinder your reading the explanation?

@Cerberus It's annoying that I have to skim over it to find the information I need. It's doubly annoying that the reason I have to skim over it is because it is some pretentious, exclusionary, pointless geek practice.

But I don't use Perl, so it doesn't really matter.

1:39 PM

Why is it exclusionary?

Many people have read Tolkien.

RegDwight АΑA

Many more have not.

I don't find this particular quotation very inspiring, but it doesn't bother me either.

Do you read a lot of Perl documentation then?

Of course not.

Then I suppose that neither one of our opinions matter.

1:41 PM

You mislead yourself if you believe this is the Perl documentation.

This is the Perl source code.

Opinions rarely matter.

/*    malloc.c
 *
 */

/*
 * 'The Chamber of Records,' said Gimli.  'I guess that is where we now stand.'
 *
 *     [p.321 of _The Lord of the Rings_, II/v: "The Bridge of Khazad-Dûm"]
 */

/* This file contains Perl's own implementation of the malloc library.
 * It is used if Configure decides that, on your platform, Perl's
 * version is better than the OS's, or if you give Configure the
 * -Dusemymalloc command-line option.
 */

/*    mathoms.c
 *
 *    Copyright (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010,
 *    2011, 2012 by Larry Wall and others
 *
 *    You may distribute under the terms of either the GNU General Public
 *    License or the Artistic License, as specified in the README file.
 *
 */

/*
 *  Anything that Hobbits had no immediate use for, but were unwilling to
 *  throw away, they called a mathom.  Their dwellings were apt to become
 *  rather crowded with mathoms, and many of the presents that passed from

Please stop posting examples.

Whatever, O Mighty One.

RegDwight АΑA

Is documentation the opposite of docentation or the opposite of dosinentation?

1:42 PM

You have closed your mind.

Far be it from me to open it.

rolls eyes

RegDwight АΑA

Is mind the opposite of myound?

You are just being bitchy about something you do not understand.

RegDwight АΑA

Or the opposite of md?

It is not worth my while to explain it to you.

1:43 PM

No, it is not.

@tchrist Oh, I love mathoms.

@Cerberos, a non-programmer, understood.

But you, a programmer, did not.

@tchrist Be nice.

Very interesting.

Indeed. Telling, some might say.

1:44 PM

It doesn't have much to do with programming.

Exactly.

Is your house full of mathoms?

RegDwight АΑA

Is opinion the opposite of opion or the opposite of opoution?

@Cerberus Sorry. I am seldom at my nicest when I catch people pissing in my garden, ignorant of its purpose or aesthetics.

@Cerberus Certs.

Good.

1:45 PM

@tchrist Come now. How am I pissing in your garden?

People are allowed to comment on your garden.

@tchrist Look who's talking, Mr Teva.

sniffs

I’m dressing up for work today.

I’m wearing Merrells today instead of Tevas.

Picture!

First day with the new manager. Gotta impress.

And what are Merrells?

Wait, I'll Google them.

1:46 PM

I posted a Merrell picky last night.

Look for the shoe.

So this is considered more appropriate than Tevas where you work?

I have a slightly different model, but that’s the idea. Mine differs mainly in color and support. It’s meant to be trail-running shoe for uneven rocky terrain.

Does your work involve rock climbing?

No, it’s easier to run away with running shoes than with boat shoes. I may have to flee.

Ah.

1:48 PM

Function first.

Are you sure you have your metaphors aligned correctly?

Do Balrogs have wings, or not?

Are you mocking my "or not"?

I should think they have no wings.

But I don't remember anything definite on the subject of wings.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus "are you mocking my "or not" or not?" ftfy

@ΜετάEd They are unable to fly in any case.

So their wings would have to be purely aesthetic...

@MattЭллен Oops!

1:50 PM

@Cerberus Or for balance.

Thanks.

Matt Эллен

any time!

@KitFox But that doesn't seem very Tolkienesque?

Certainly they don’t fly well when they have an angel beating upon their head and shoulders with a magic sword.

@ΜετάEd I don't have my Tolkien ref handy. Damn. If only there were Tolkien aficionados about.

1:51 PM

Or not.

An eagle with a sword? Which battle are you thinking of?

@tchrist what if you're running away on a boat? Yes, it'll be a short run, but you have to think of these contingencies.

RegDwight АΑA

Oh come on, this is bullshit. I go to the "Review first questions" page, click on the "Review post" link, and what is the first thing I see?

Matt Эллен

Imagine a universe where everything was done for comedic effect...

RegDwight АΑA

user image

1:52 PM

I picture a balrog as a dark, man-like shape in a fiery aura.

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA it's good, honest, that then counts towards your reviewer badge total for actioned reviews

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен how does it count if it obviously does not?

It can't even tell that I've already looked at that question. Let alone that I've fixed it.

Because the badge is for encouraging users to use the old tool.

RegDwight АΑA

The other questions are all edited, too. Jasper, Ed, Ed, Ed, Matt, Jasper, Kit,...

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightАΑA posthumously. You can only score for your reviewer badge through the review page, but that page will pick up if you've commented, edits, or voted to close already (if you review a post you've done that on), and add it to your tally. that's how it works

RegDwight АΑA

1:54 PM

@MattЭллен Wow. Seriously? Wow.

Matt Эллен

that's how I've found it

RegDwight АΑA

I'll have to verify that. Sorry if that offends you.

Matt Эллен

no worries :)

@Cerberus Angel, not eagle.

‘Long time I fell,’ he said at last, slowly, as if thinking back with difficulty. ‘Long I fell, and he fell with me. His fire was about me. I was burned. Then we plunged into the deep water and all was dark. Cold it was as the tide of death: almost it froze my heart.
. . .
‘His fire was quenched, but now he was a thing of slime, stronger than a strangling snake. We fought far under the living earth, where time is not counted. Ever he clutched me, and ever I hewed him, till at last he fled into dark tunnels. . . .

eagle ≠ angel

1:57 PM

@MattЭллен You must mean this one.

Matt Эллен

@ΜετάEd the thought did cross my mind :D

@ΜετάEd Oh, dear. How could I have misreread that?

"suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall"

Oh!

Is the language here metaphorical or descriptive?

1:58 PM

Is that the balrog of Moria?

Yes.

Hmm.

@Cerberus Yes. See here.

@ΜετάEd I was thinking the same thing when you posted that.

RegDwight АΑA

@MattЭллен haha WTF. Now that is easy now.

1:59 PM

@ΜετάEd Bit of a conundrum, that.

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