English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

About 6 hours ago I got a batch of 8 quick downvotes with no other rep changes intervening. Any idea when, or how often, the serial-vote reversal script runs? I feel like it may be once a day.

user19161

@tchrist UTC 0300.

user19161

Also, depending on how the 8 downvotes were cast, they may or may not be removed.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Ah, these happened at UTC 0700.

user19161

The script is not perfect, and sometimes human intervention and judgement is needed.

tchrist

1:04 PM

How did you learn about the time it runs? Just curious. I know you are careful not to be its target. :)

Robusto

@tchrist I don't believe I've ever had serial votes reversed. I think whoever does it is smart enough to stay on the safe side of the threshold.

user19161

Similarly laws are not perfect. Very often the innocent are charged and the guilty are not.

tchrist

@Robusto I certainly have, but on SO not ELU.

user19161

Seeing the stupidity and inadequacy of laws in this world, I only live by my own conscience these days.

tchrist

@Robusto Stupid enemies are much less bad than smart ones.

user19161

1:05 PM

@tchrist By observing that that is the time when serial votes are reversed for others and myself on various occasions.

user19161

@Robusto Yes, like me.

user19161

I am a master at serial upvoting.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Ah, ok. But you were the target of serial vote scheme? What, serial upvote? :)

Robusto

I almost hate to comment on answers anymore, since if that answer then accrues a down vote it will be assumed to be mine.

tchrist

Yes, absolutely. I quite agree.

user19161

1:06 PM

@tchrist Yes, even open collusion. =)

tchrist

There is a user named “haras.pl” — sounds like a Perl script that forgot an s.

@JasperLoy That comes from your boasting of your reps being at a magic number that is a multiple of some noteworthy prime. People are cantankerous that way.

Twelfth Night cannot get here soon enough:

0

Q: Start / beginning and fisnish / end

I am not a native speaker and I have came up with a problem of using: start beginning Which one is more proper to indicate a date (year). For example: "The year in which physiotherapy treatment has begun" "The year in which physiotherapy treatment has started" and the same goes with fini...

grammar

user19161

I don't think I will ever get a pet, but I think I would prefer a puppy to a kitten.

user19161

Can we compare which is better, and why?

tchrist

Not Constructive.

user19161

They say that a dog is man's best friend.

user19161

1:14 PM

What about a cat? Is it a woman's best friend.

tchrist

Outside a dog, a book is man’s best friend.

Inside a dog, it’s too dark to read anyway.

user19161

I think a man's best friend is himself.

tchrist

@JasperLoy That is just wrong. You added an indefinite article, which is not in the original, and you perverted the meaning of man to mean male.

user19161

Very often, I have nobody who can empathize with my problems except myself.

user19161

Too often, others will disappoint you.

tchrist

1:17 PM

Have you tried anti-depressants?

Robusto

Don't look to cats to empathize with you. Cats are all about themselves. As the saying goes, "Dogs have owners; cats have staff."

user19161

@tchrist No, but maybe I should.

Robusto

That said, cats are still lovable. And you miss them when they're gone.

tchrist

When you see another person, you naturally look them in the eye, and they do the same to you.

user19161

Mariah Carey is my best "friend". She tells me "There can be miracles when you believe". QED!

tchrist

1:20 PM

Have you noticed that other animals do the very same thing? The cat does not look at your feet, or your knees, or what is in your hand unless it is his food. He looks you in the eye, and you look at him the same way.

Animals recognize each other as beings, not things.

Even us.

user19161

@tchrist Even lions who want to eat you will look you in the eye.

user19161

The eyes are the windows to a person's soul, they say.

tchrist

It doesn’t matter whether he wants to eat you; the lion still looks you in the eye. At least, that has been my experience upon encountering them.

Mine just growled to make me go away. He was unremarkably successful in this.

Robusto

@tchrist That is a dominance behavior in the pride. The submissive animal is the one that looks away first.

user19161

@tchrist You have a lion at home?

tchrist

1:22 PM

@JasperLoy Well, I did. They recently relocated her and her two cubs elsewhither.

user19161

@robusto I remember I wished you "Merry Christmas" last year but not this year...

user19161

@tchrist Can I ask, how the hell did you get a lion?

Robusto

I don't remember any such thing.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Too many deer. They attract them.

user19161

Dec 23 '11 at 1:46, by Jasper Loy

@robusto Merry Christmas!

user19161

1:26 PM

Dec 23 '11 at 3:32, by Robusto

@JasperLoy — Back atcha.

tchrist

That was just a few blocks from me.

user19161

@tchrist I saw this picture before.

tchrist

Indeed you have. Which is why I do not understand why you are surprised that I live among lions.

Here is another, whose picture I will not paste here.

user19161

Do you live near a zoo or something?

user19161

Did these lions escape from their cages?

tchrist

1:29 PM

Huh? No, of course not. They’re autochthonous.

We are the invaders.

Who have escaped our cages.

Robusto

@JasperLoy Still don't remember. Christmas wishes don't go into long-term memory, unless they're from some hot chick who never noticed me before.

user19161

@Robusto You never know. I might be a hot chick in disguise!

Robusto

I'll take my chances.

tchrist

Drag king?

Robusto

@JasperLoy Hot chicks don't have to beg for attention.

tchrist

1:32 PM

@JasperLoy Have your people murdered all the other native animals where you live, such that you can only see them stuffed by a taxidermist or imprisoned in a cage?

user19161

@tchrist Well, the only animals I see every day are cats and dogs and birds.

tchrist

I do not see lions every day, nor bears, but they are there. I do see deer every day, and often foxes.

The other day I had a possum eating under my feeder.

user19161

The lions are not dangerous?

tchrist

Dangerous?

user19161

Do they attack humans?

tchrist

1:34 PM

I would not care to pick a fight with them. So I do not.

They tend to snack on household pets.

user19161

I think lions would leave humans alone, unless they are really hungry.

tchrist

Although my bear got somebody’s baby goat not too long ago.

user19161

I read that some tiger attacked a human because there was no other food.

tchrist

The people were very sad.

user19161

It is understandable for the tiger to kill the human in such a case, and also understandable for the other human to kill the tiger after that.

tchrist

1:36 PM

But they should never have left their unprotected baby goat tied up in their backyard abutting the public open space around the lake that is the known haunt of all creatures great and small.

That was very stupid of them.

user19161

We don't have this kind of residential areas where there are such wild animals.

tchrist

You can see coons near every night if you want.

user19161

After all, we are just a small dot on the map.

tchrist

And smell skunks.

We are all just a small dot on the map.

In wildness is the preservation of the world.

Quoth Thoreau.

user19161

Who said that?

user19161

1:38 PM

In stillness the heart speaks.

tchrist

Stillth.

user19161

I have said too much rubbish today in this chat.

user19161

I will try to restrain myself more...

user19161

Usually, the rubbish is proportional to my sadness...

tchrist

@JasperLoy So you live in a zoo then, behind a gilded cage?

user19161

1:40 PM

@tchrist HAHAHAHAHA.

user19161

I think the last time I saw a tiger or lion was two decades ago in a zoo.

tchrist

I not believe lions are native to your region of the world.

But all the other animals you don’t see, you killed. That is a terrible thing.

user19161

There are restaurants which boil seafood alive, that is very cruel...

tchrist

Why yes, deep-frying is far more humane.

user19161

@waiwai Happy New Year! I hope you are doing well in school. Enjoy your vacation!

user19161

1:44 PM

@tchrist I think you accidentally a word.

tchrist

Did. Do.

KitFox

Hola.

user19161

@KitFox Hi! I haven't talked to you for a while.

user19161

Also, I see that you have changed into the fox again.

KitFox

Hi @Jasper. This one looks pretty good with the hat.

tchrist

1:48 PM

It’s the ears. It gives her away.

Red foxes have daintier ears.

user19161

@KitFox Of course, there are no hats in chat.

KitFox

I think I'm out of hat abilities. I don't think I can muster any more answers or questions.

So unless I can get more views on the one question, or earn necromancer, or answer my own question, I'm done with hat gathering.

sulks

I have to work today too, so...I suppose I could spend all of tomorrow thinking up another 27 questions that are interesting enough to get a single upvote.

Well, I've got to get back to consulting. Later!

tchrist

@Kit You can answer your own question.

Robusto

You can also question your own answer.

user19161

@tchrist Oh congrats for reaching 25k! Now you must retire too, like me. Unless you want to reach 30k and more.

Robusto

1:53 PM

So he has to retire unless he doesn't?

user19161

Indeedo.

user19161

I have talked too much rubbish today, ouvert et haut !

Mitch

@tchrist "She said that due to the location and the cougar's lack of fear toward humans, rangers decided to put it down."

Note to self: act scared

@Robusto I think with dogs it is the opposite. The one who doesn't bother looking in people's (uh...other dogs') eyes is the leader...the subordinates are always looking to the leader of the pack.

@Cerberus Come -on-! It is very well defined geographically:

Midwestern United States

The Midwestern United States as defined by the United States Census Bureau, is one of the four U.S. geographic regions. The area is referred to as the Midwest throughout the United States. The region consists of 12 states in the north-central and north-eastern United States: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. Illinois is the most populous of the states. A 2012 report from the United States Census put the population of the Midwest at 65,377,684. The Midwest is sometimes divided into two regions: the E...

But as a state of mind... yes, like Atlantis, or a fungus.

@JasperLoy there's never enough rubbish.

Robusto

2:16 PM

0

A: "Start" vs. "begin", "finish" vs. "end"

I think begin, begin sounds natural here.

Even for an ending?

KitFox

I need some help thinking. Any SQLers in the house?

Mitch

does it involve joins?

KitFox

Probably.

Mitch

I hate joins. I'd rather do a sub-select.

KitFox

That could work. I will probably have to resort to a cursor.

user19161

2:25 PM

@Mitch I am back for Mitch.

user19161

@Mitch I thought you would say you love meets.

Mitch

@JasperLoy !! I'm losing my geek humor touch....

(thank you for not saying 'Oh, I didn't know you had one')

user19161

@Mitch Well, though I only came across meet and join once or twice.

Mitch

@JasperLoy when put in those terms, I love meets and joins, just not those terms because I can never remember which is which.

except if join means intersection, now I have a way.

user19161

@mitch I would like to ask you. What do you think of say a 30 year old man and a 45 year old woman falling in love? Does it sound ridiculous?

Mitch

2:27 PM

and now I want to know why there isn't a meet operation in SQL.

@JasperLoy First...are you 30 years old? just out of curiosity and irrelevantly.

user19161

@Mitch Well, that would be my secret.

Robusto

Jasper saw Mitch discussing meets and joins and decided here was a good source for advice on romance.

There should be an "Ask Mitch" column where he gives SQL advice to the lovelorn.

Mitch

@KitFox I don't get cursors either...why not just call them a list or an iterator or just get the result set and loop in code?

Robusto

I only have a cursory understanding of SQL.

Mitch

@Robusto "I really think you should talk it out. It's the best for everyone if you are all open. But frankly, converting a legacy hierarchical database to a triple store with out first denormalizing is kinda squicky"

user19161

2:32 PM

@mitch No comments?

Mitch

@JasperLoy I am trying hard not to make comments a thirteen year old might make.

Robusto

@Mitch Hmm ... needs more ... you haven't validated the woman's issues sufficiently yet.

Mitch

No I don't see any problem at all, not ridiculous at all.

Robusto

Ask Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore how that worked out for them.

Mitch

A 20 year old guy and a 35 year old is ridiculous.

user19161

2:33 PM

@Mitch I know about the half your age plus seven rule, of course.

Mitch

@Robusto Oh... yeah.... that was ridiculous.

but that's more because each of them is ridiculous on their own.

user19161

@Mitch HAHAHAHAHA

Robusto

Celebrities are ridiculous, in general.

Johan Larsson

@Robusto found a couple of stars for you when reading transcript, nice. Sorry about the cat.

Robusto

Ever notice how Jasper can't be amused, he has to guffaw?

@JohanLarsson Thanks.

Mitch

2:35 PM

@JasperLoy I've heard of that. really, people need rules?

user19161

@Mitch Of course, the actual numbers in this case are not 30 and 45, they have been changed to conceal some identities...

Mitch

@JasperLoy seriously it depends on the person. In one very particular logical sense, it's practical because the dude is going to die earlier anyway.

user19161

Not that anyone here would know who I am thinking of though, even if the real numbers were used...

Mitch

@JasperLoy Oh... it is about Aston and duh-MEE.

user19161

@Mitch Ha, you know that life is unpredictable.

Mitch

2:37 PM

She's like 50 now right?

user19161

@Mitch No, it is actually about ... erm, I better not say here...

Mitch

@JasperLoy I just see lots of older women living to their nineties when their husband dies in their 60's, which translates to ... calculates..

calculates some more

user19161

@Mitch I expect to live up to 100 myself.

Mitch

it translates to a lot of years with no one to change the lightbulbs.

user19161

@Mitch What comments would a 13 year old make?

Mitch

2:41 PM

I don't know, I'm not a 13 year old ...Argh...I've given away too much

user19161

Oh no!

user19161

It is a very good month on Math for me, I got over 5000 reps!

Mitch

so looking it up (Demi = 50, Aston 34, (see Google does make us smarter), it does seem weird for them.

user19161

@Mitch Ah, if they can do it, so can X and Y.

Mitch

How about I say that the big age difference looks to me the same in either direction. If it works for an older guy and younger woman, then same for older woman younger guy.

user19161

2:44 PM

I just had a haircut, I look like a recruit now...

user19161

@johan needs no haircut, LOL

Johan Larsson

@JasperLoy This is my final, unless i transplant

Hardcoded tonsure

Mitch

@JasperLoy I empathize with that, but not with your actual problems.

user19161

@Mitch Well, Demi Moore is in very good shape. I think she is hot.

user19161

@Mitch Which you can't anyway, since you don't know what they exactly are.

Mitch

2:47 PM

@JasperLoy That's the kind of thirteen year old type of comments I was not saying.

@JasperLoy exactly.

user19161

@Mitch Oh...

user19161

@Mitch Anyway, thanks for telling me about them, now I have no doubt that it is not ridiculous...

Mitch

@JasperLoy Love is weird...from inside you have no idea what it looks like to the outside. And from the outside you have no idea what it's like on the inside. Yay..fortune cookie submision!

user19161

@Mitch What fortune cookie?

user19161

Oh I see.

user19161

2:53 PM

I understand now.

user19161

@Mitch Just think that two lines meet at a point and two points join to form a line.

Johan Larsson

@JasperLoy I can actually recommend it, looks like crap but very low maintenance

KitFox

OP wants to know if this can be reopened yet:

-2

Q: Should do vs should be doing

What's the difference between "should do" and "should be doing"? Are they interchangable? Example #1: “I believe in making the world safe for our children, but not our children's children, because I don't think children should be having sex.” (by Jack Handey) Would "should have children" be pos...

should

user19161

@KitFox Ha, I have already commented in this chat before that all tense questions should be closed under the one that talks about all tenses!

Robusto

3:11 PM

0

Q: For/At ...... Off/Less

Suppose a book, originally $50, is now on sale for $45. Then someone bought the book: He bought the book for 10% off. He bought the book at 10% off. He bought the book for 10% less. He bought the book at 10% less. He bought the book for 5 dollars off. He bought the book at 5 doll...

grammar american-english

Looks like it's ELL out there.

Cerberus

@Mitch I know. It's just not defined as one would expect.

Johan Larsson

3:31 PM

@Robusto I agree with you on euthanasia btw, we treat our animals better than our old. I've been thinking about putting together a DIY-kit when the time comes.

Mitch

@JasperLoy that doesn't work for me, like left and right or east and west, they're pretty much the same thing to me. I'm mean it's all dual, right? Even though your pair of sentences sounds right and is memorable, it still doesn't tell me what the logical 'join' is. Is it the intersection, where meet is the 'union'? Is join the glb and meet the lub?

@KitFox are there -any- votes to reopen?

It sounds like something that has either been beaten to death or GR.

@Cerberus 1) you mean like the Mideast is well-defined either? Like is Morocco part of the Mideast?

@Cerberus 2) What did you expect?