English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

3:00 PM

We discussed HSV treatments here over the weekend.

I actually like HSV models, but some people find them unappealing.

Mitch

@tchrist hell yeah! and also, I want a color mapping that uses opponent process R-G, B-Y, P-O.

JSBձոգչ

Herpes simplex virus

Herpes simplex virus 1 and 2 (HSV-1 and HSV-2), also known as Human herpes virus 1 and 2 (HHV-1 and -2), are two members of the herpes virus family, Herpesviridae, that infect humans. Both HSV-1 (which produces most cold sores) and HSV-2 (which produces most genital herpes) are and contagious. They can be spread when an infected person is producing and shedding the virus. Symptoms of herpes simplex virus infection include watery blisters in the skin or mucous membranes of the mouth, lips or genitals. Transmission HSV-1 and -2 are transmitted by contact with an infectious area of the...

Mitch

@tchrist I find it more natural to describe a color with that than RGB.

tchrist

But we have only two not three opponent processes in our wetware: blue–amber and magenta–green.

That doesn’t include luminance, which is a third channel.

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist come again? aren't most humans trichromats?

Hanu

3:02 PM

Hi

tchrist

@JSBձոգչ These are not the HSV models you are looking for.

@JSBձոգչ Yes, but that is not an oppositional process.

JSBձոգչ

@tchrist i gathered. but you did say that you discussed HSV treatments

Hanu

I have some questions to discuss. Can I ask?

tchrist

Just a sec, I will fetch thee a linky.

JSBձոգչ

hue saturation value

i know

Andrew Leach

3:03 PM

@Hanu Yes: just interrupt.

Ooh. It's gone all quiet.

tchrist

Sometimes when I have a lot to say, I apply the principle of parsimony to my word-choice, allowing each word to be polysemous.

Hanu

I am working on my vocabulary. So my questions are mostly related usage of different words

tchrist

I am linky hunting.

Hanu

What are the usage differences of party vs bash vs debauchery vs binge vs revel

Mitch

@tchrist look up catachresis

and assiduous

JSBձոգչ

3:05 PM

@tchrist and i exploit your polysemy for my personal amusement. so: hsv treatments

tchrist

Two complementary theories of color vision are the trichromatic theory and the opponent process theory. The trichromatic theory, or Young–Helmholtz theory, proposed in the 19th century by Thomas Young and Hermann von Helmholtz, as mentioned above, states that the retina's three types of cones are preferentially sensitive to blue, green, and red.
Ewald Hering proposed the opponent process theory in 1872.[5] It states that the visual system interprets color in an antagonistic way: red vs. green, blue vs. yellow, black vs. white. We now know both theories to be correct, describing different st…

Opponent process

The color opponent process is a color theory that states that the human visual system interprets information about color by processing signals from cones and rods in an antagonistic manner. The three types of cones (L for long, M for medium and S for short) have some overlap in the wavelengths of light to which they respond, so it is more efficient for the visual system to record differences between the responses of cones, rather than each type of cone's individual response. The opponent color theory suggests that there are three opponent channels: red versus green, blue versus yellow, ...

Andrew Leach

@Hanu Like this question

1

Q: Usage differences between Smile vs laugh vs Sneer vs chuckle vs giggle vs titter vs grin vs beam vs smirk vs simper vs snicker vs Singger?

I learned from dictionary the below sentences are Synonyms or related words. I would like to know context specific usage of each word. Below are the dictionary meanings I have found Smile = form one's features into a pleased, kind, or amused expression, typically with the corners of the mouth...

word-usage

Mitch

@tchrist I have a fourth channel, into the depths of your soul.

tchrist

While the trichromatic theory defines the way the retina of the eye allows the visual system to detect color with three types of cones, the opponent process theory accounts for mechanisms that receive and process information from cones.
Though the trichromatic and opponent processes theories were initially thought to be at odds, it later came to be understood that the mechanisms responsible for the opponent process receive signals from the three types of cones and process them at a more complex level.

Mitch

Some people you look at, and it just doesn't go that far.

tchrist

3:08 PM

@Mitch You have two X chromosomes?

Andrew Leach

@Hanu And you were advised to ask here. OK...

tchrist

The putative existence of a human male tetrachromat brings to the fore the very question of maleness. Or of humanness.

Mitch

@tchrist that leads me to believe that there is black-whit color blindness. That would kinda suck.

tchrist

We were just through all this.

Mitch

@tchrist Three, and a couple extra Y's to spare.

Andrew Leach

3:10 PM

@Hanu How many dictionaries have you looked at so far? Have you used OneLook? onelook.com

tchrist

Mitch

@tchrist When you say 'we', that is insinuating that I am not everywhere at once, and calls into question me godliness.

...Guvnah, he says in a cockney accent.

Andrew Leach

@Hanu Because, for example, debauchery is an abstract noun, and can't be the same as party.

Mitch

@JSBձոգչ most are just doormats.

@tchrist they didn't have blue-yellow color blindness listed.

tchrist

Blue-yellow color blindness is a sentence whose second word is superfluous.

Mitch

3:14 PM

@tchrist aren't some fish pentachromats? Lake Victoria cichlids? @KitFox?

tchrist

@Mitch Yes yes yes, and more.

Mitch

@tchrist hexachromats?

tchrist

Are you asking @Kit because she’s a tet?

Mitch

that's some psychedelic unicorn rainbow farts!

tchrist

@Mitch More.

KitFox

3:15 PM

I'm not a tet.

Mitch

@tchrist No, because she actually knows stuff.

Hanu

so party and bash are similar? Are they interchangeable?

KitFox

@Hanu A bash is a big party.

Mitch

@Hanu No.

KitFox

Party in the sense of a celebration, that is.

Mitch

3:16 PM

a party is generic.

tchrist

@Hanu They are not of the same register, perhaps.

Nor of the same specificity.

KitFox

@Mitch I don't know much about fish vision. I would be very surprised if they were pentachromats.

Andrew Leach

Yes, bash is informal.

Mitch

'bash' is a specially big party and the word is, though not informal, in the slang direction. (i.e. you could use it with the queen, but in an informal setting with the queen.

@KitFox Then be surprised!

Andrew Leach

@Mitch Oh. There we go. Two contradictory opinions.

Robusto

3:18 PM

@Mitch It's the shell you use when you're bourne again.

KitFox

@Mitch Oh?

tchrist

> Papilio butterflies possess six types of photoreceptors and may have pentachromatic vision.[26] The most complex color vision system in animal kingdom has been found in stomatopods (such as the mantis shrimp) with up to 12 different spectral receptor types thought to work as multiple dichromatic units.[27]

Mitch

thehappyscientist.com/science-photo/science-photo-answer-723

tchrist

IIRC genus Papilio is the swallowtails and kin.

KitFox

Butterflies are not fish.

Neither are shrimp.

Mitch

3:19 PM

not actual knowledge but hints that pigeons and .. something else are pentachromats. fat lotta good it does them.

KitFox

Butterflies and pigeons I can believe.

tchrist

@Mitch The queen probably sees the same thing as her subjects do. Many invertebrates have color vision. Honey- and bumblebees have trichromatic color vision, which is insensitive to red but sensitive to ultraviolet. In view of the importance of color vision to bees one might expect these receptor sensitivities to reflect their specific visual ecology; for example the types of flowers that they visit.

Mitch

@KitFox picky.

Hanu

So party is general celebration

tchrist

> Reptiles and amphibians also have four cone types (occasionally five), and probably see at least the same number of colors that humans do, or perhaps more. In addition, some nocturnal geckos have the capability of seeing color in dim light.

Mitch

3:20 PM

@KitFox butterfiles but not shrimp?

Hanu

Bash is one type of part and it is big party

Mitch

@Hanu yes. very common word. bash is rarer.

@KitFox aren't most primates monochromats?

tchrist

> In bird vision, tetrachromacy is achieved through up to four cone types, depending on species. Each single cone contains one of the four main types of vertebrate cone photopigment (LWS/ MWS, RH2, SWS2 and SWS1) and has a colored oil droplet in its inner segment.[25] Brightly colored oil droplets inside the cones shift or narrow the spectral sensitivity of the cell. It has been suggested that it is likely that pigeons are pentachromats.[29]

@Mitch no no no

KitFox

@Mitch I don't know. I wouldn't think so.

tchrist

Only Owl Monkeys are monos.

(pardon the pun; it was not intentional)

Johan Larsson

3:22 PM

@tchrist accepted :)

KitFox

@Mitch But why did you start tchrist on a random citation spree?

tchrist

> However, even among primates, full color vision differs between New World and Old World monkeys. Old World primates, including monkeys and all apes, have vision similar to humans. New World monkeys may or may not have color sensitivity at this level: in most species, males are dichromats, and about 60% of females are trichromats, but the owl monkeys are cone monochromats, and both sexes of howler monkeys are trichromats.

Mitch

@AndrewLeach not contradictory, just I have extra nuance. I'd go with 'bash' is more informal than 'party'. Sometimes when one says 'informal' it makes it sound like it is inappropriate for formal speech, and even though 'bash' is not bland, I'd think one could use it in formal speech (though it would sound a little weird).

tchrist

@Mitch That is why I suggested there might be a register issue here.

Hanu

What about revel vs binge

tchrist

3:24 PM

@KitFox It is not random. Would you like me supply random citations?

Mitch

@KitFox I'm really sorry. I had no intention. I also had intentions of getting a lot of things done this morning.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch I don't think I'd ask Prince Charles about his birthday bash, even if the Daily Express reports it like that.

KitFox

@Hanu Binge has a negative connotation.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach You really oughn’t ask him anything related to his age. It is known to bum the Prince out.

Mitch

@Hanu binging is just drinking a whole lot to excess. revel is a happy party thing.

MετάEd

3:25 PM

Going on a binge sounds kinda fun to me.

KitFox

@Mitch Or doing anything to excess and in a sort of out of control way.

Mitch

@AndrewLeach Oh I totally would. Kind of 'cheerio old bean.'

MετάEd

But then it's been a slow day.

KitFox

Tru dat. I could use a good binge on something.

Mitch

@MετάEd afterwards does not sound so good. after revelling, you're just tired in a hppy way without all the vomiting.

KitFox

3:26 PM

I got a note from my ex-boyfriend today.

I'm cheered by that.

Yay! He doesn't hate me!

Mitch

@KitFox I'm guessing binging wasn't involved.

KitFox

We used to binge all the time.

We were a rock star couple.

Mitch

Good times.

KitFox

Good times.

Mitch

except for the vomiting. That's all I can associate with binging.

KitFox

3:27 PM

That's purging. Different.

Mitch

they don't go together? Like red and green?

KitFox

Not always.

RegDwighт

Red and green are like in OVER 9000 country flags. Whachamean, they no go together?

KitFox

They don't go together in my flag.

tchrist

I can tell you how to see a reddish-green thingy.

Johan Larsson

3:30 PM

"As of May 1, 2008, the United Nations has 192 official members"

Hanu

and revel?

tchrist

It requires feed one eye an image of green object and the other an identical image save with red swapped in for green.

Andrew Leach

@JohanLarsson Plus Southern Sudan.

tchrist

You can do that yourself with the stereo-vision trick.

Johan Larsson

@AndrewLeach correct, nice skills|googeling

Mitch

3:32 PM

tchrist

You shall then perceive a color never before seen by mortal man. Your entire color-processing wetware will get a new experience. It is quite odd.

KitFox

I assert that you won't perceive a new color at all.

tchrist

Well.

Elaborate?

Andrew Leach

@Hanu AHD: "To engage in uproarious festivities; make merry." Binge is far more negative than that: "A drunken spree or revel" -- note the drunken in there. Making merry doesn't mean drunken.

tchrist

@Mitch Bingeing.

Andrew Leach

3:34 PM

@JohanLarsson Not Googling. I was interested in how it went at the time (although I can't remember when that was)

KitFox

Your cortex will switch between the perception of green and that of red.

Most likely settling on whichever is presented to your dominant eye.

RegDwighт

Mitch

@tchrist how does one pronounc the British 'whingeing' for AmE 'whining'?

KitFox

Even if you can successfully fuse the images, you still will just see a mix of red and green. You can mix those two colors together.

Try it. I'll wait here.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch That's Bangladesh. The circle should be in the middle.

Hanu

3:38 PM

So binge is just drinking it doesn't contain any other stuff

Mitch

@AndrewLeach I didn't draw it. Complain to the authorities.

KitFox

@Hanu No, you can binge on many things.

Mitch

@KitFox chocolate.

KitFox

Chocolate, shopping, drugs.

Mitch

donuts.

KitFox

3:39 PM

Cheese curls.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch win-jing; wine-ing

Mitch

really, drugs?

yeah, cheese doodles. crunchy. not puffed. puffed ones just take too much effort for binging

@KitFox shopping binge...sounds too metaphorical to me.

Andrew Leach

@Mitch The point is that it's done to excess. And probably unconsciousness. (Well, maybe not with cheese curls)

Mitch

but yes, you can go on a shopping binge. but it's not really much of a party.

Andrew Leach

Oops. Not Mitch. Oh well.

tchrist

3:41 PM

@RegDwighт Yes, I can cross those.

Mitch

@AndrewLeach that's what I thought. it's one of those words that (to me) is so foreign I can't even hear it.

tchrist

@Mitch Whingeing, bingeing, singeing all have a soft j sound, while winging, binging, and singing all have a hard g sound.

Mitch

@KitFox I can't do the eyecross thing. it hurts. I see red and green just overlayed, not 'fused'.

Hanu

So if we are indulging on any thing to excess then we can call it as binge

KitFox

@Mitch I feel exactly opposite.

Andrew Leach

3:42 PM

@Hanu Yes: excess, even gross excess.

Hanu

like binge on drinking, binge on eating a lot

Mitch

@tchrist ha ha! not binging. that's still going on a bige to me, with a hard 'g' it is going around acting like the crosby crooner, or going around changing the cariety of cherries.

tchrist

@Mitch What, whingeing isn’t part of your active working vocabulary? What do you use instead?

Andrew Leach

@Hanu Binge-drinking, binge-eating...

Mitch

@KitFox What? I can't talk to you.

KitFox

3:43 PM

@Mitch Yes, that's the first thing I said. You are alternating the perception of red and green.

tchrist

Binging is cherry-pinging.

KitFox

@Mitch Fine. Just ignore me then.

tchrist

disbelieves that @Mitch never whinges

Mitch

@tchrist not AmE. Whining is the AmE word. Cripes Whinging isn't even a Harry-Potter word for Americans.

tchrist

Whingeing and whining are not quite the same.

Mitch

3:44 PM

@KitFox but it's not as cool as I assumed you were promising. shit. my life sucks now.

Matt Эллен

dogs whine they don't whinge

sometimes my stomach whinges. it never whines

KitFox

@Mitch I didn't promise it would be cool.

Mitch

@tchrist sorry. never. I don't think I whine though.

Matt Эллен

wine and dine?

Mitch

@MattЭллен that dosen't sound good. you should see somebody about that.

KitFox

3:45 PM

Oh. Whinge is like grumbling then?

Hanu

Binge is more about indulging on activity to excess

Matt Эллен

@Mitch they gave me some sort of indigestion remedy and sent me on my way. I whinged about that too.

KitFox

@Hanu Yes.

Mitch

@KitFox I know but I wanted to believe that that's what would happen.

tchrist

Whingeing mingas everywhere.

Hanu

3:46 PM

Where as Revel is just enjoying with in the happy limits

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah, like that.

Andrew Leach

@Hanu Yes.

Mitch

looking back again, the red circle just looks sort of splotchy dark in places. maybe that map is not the best choice.

KitFox

@Hanu Revel is enjoying with complete abandon.

Without reservation or hesitation.

Andrew Leach

@KitFox But not to excess.

tchrist

3:48 PM

is surprised no one has yet whinged about going on a minge binge, and endeavours not to do so — and nearly succeeds

Mitch

@Hanu yes, exactly. reveling is all about being happy and fun (excess may occur but that's not central to the idea)

KitFox

It is a large magnitude. I don't think excess is even possible with revelry.

tchrist

@KitFox Oh, you would be surprised.

Mitch

it's not reserved though.

revelry..sounds like fun.

Hanu

To summarise

KitFox

3:49 PM

It is completely and utterly unreserved.

Hanu

party= General celebration with kith and kin

KitFox

Or friends.

Hanu

bash = parting with large group

Mitch

@tchrist what is minging?

KitFox

@Hanu loud and boisterous.

Andrew Leach

3:49 PM

@tchrist A singing minging minge singe?

Hanu

revel= enjoying in party(Focus is enjoying)

Mitch

@Hanu just general celebration.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch ugly, unattractive things

Mitch

could be with total strangers.

tchrist

@Mitch Whould you pleaze spiel besser?

Hanu

3:50 PM

Binge = indulge on excessively

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Ouch!

KitFox

Sounds like you've got the gist @Hanu.

Mitch

@tchrist I use american spelling, aging instead of ageing.

tchrist

@Mitch That isn’t the issue.

There is no “American spelling” of bingeing, lugeing, singeing, whingeing. You need to e to keep the g soft.

Is this a tad less than kind?

1. It isn't exactly "outside of humour" in the context. 2. Even then it's permitted by usage per OED. Perhaps we need to spend time checking out before answering (I do it sometimes). — Kris 14 mins ago

Mitch

@KitFox really? cheese puffs? de gustibus non demonstrandum.

tchrist

3:54 PM

¿cheese puffs == cheese poofs?

Matt Эллен

@Mitch agan instead of agean

Mitch

@tchrist I agree with all of those except for binge. present participle should be binging.

Matt Эллен

like googling?

tchrist