English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-12-01 (page 1 of 3)

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12:05 AM

The new media priesthood: the word people now work for the code people.

Which is why most ELU users are also SO users, especially the highly ranked ones.

Cryptic 333-year-old shorthand finally decoded.

@tchrist Excellent.

Now figure this out:

Voynich manuscript

The Voynich manuscript, described as "the world's most mysterious manuscript", is a work which dates to the early 15th century, possibly from northern Italy. It is named after the book dealer Wilfrid Voynich, who purchased it in 1912. Some pages are missing, but the current version comprises about 240 vellum pages, most with illustrations. Much of the manuscript resembles herbal manuscripts of the 1500s, seeming to present illustrations and information about plants and their possible uses for medical purposes. However, most of the plants do not match known species, and the manuscript's s...

12:53 AM

@Cerberus please tell me not to do anything stupid

1:38 AM

> It calls it "irregular", which is OED-speak for "utterly spurious and we'll think you're a fool if you use it, but there are those as do".

I love how she decodes the OED’s “irregular”.

@Cerberus At the link above, they’re trying to puzzle out whether Latin penis was actually of the third declension. One person couldn’t find it used in the plural — although genitive would be useful, too. Do you have resources one could search for such a citation? Thanks.

1:55 AM

@DavidWallace Don't do it!

What is it this time?

Get your derrière back on the straight and narrow.

Sorry, I shouldn't go on making this your problem. I am just incredibly angry, that's all.

That's okay.

Just don't do it.

You know what I would say if I knew what it was.

No, actually I don't. And you do know what it is. It's the same again.

Then I would say the same again.

Ignore. No communication.

It's the only reliable way.

All else is at least 50 % self-deception.

Ignore doesn't work.

1:58 AM

@tchrist archimedes.fas.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/…

@DavidWallace Have you tried?

If I have to go on adjusting my behaviour, I will eventually snap.

Snap as in call names?

Possibly worse.

That's not the worst thing ever.

How bad?

Hang on, I'm going to send you an email.

2:00 AM

Say you have to break off all contact for your own sake, and that you really need your choice to be respected.

@tchrist Suze is right, obviously.

Won't work.

Do you want me to intervene?

I don't think so.

And why wouldn't it work?

Oh I missed that, phone.

Shit, now I was reading your e-mail and missed it again.

Don't send that btw, it will only stimulate the game, I think.

Arg missed it again!

Ping me?

Gmail chat?

2:11 AM

Okay. But I have to go to bed soon.

Oh, you mean ping here! OK.

@Cerberus She teaches O-level English in England, and maybe some high-school-type linguistics; not sure. She’s from British Columbia, married a Brit, has a PhD in something related to North American native languages, field work in Alaska and thereabouts.

Uhm.

Okay...

1 hour later…

3:38 AM

-1

Q: Why Belstaff Jacken is writen Belstaff Jacken?

I just search some words in the internet, thus I found some site like http://www.belstaffjackenstore.de write words like Belstaff Jacken. Why does it write that. I feel comfusing.

May 14 at 14:36, by Robusto

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The first one.

@Mahnax I swear I've seen that exact site before, after clicking on a very similar question.

@RegDwighт Huh, odd.

It was like two years ago, and I'm not even sure if it was on ELU, another SE site, or Reddit.

Well, you know what they say—it's a small Internet.

But the question was just as asinine, and amounted exactly to the same "I pretend not to see that this is German".

@Mahnax nah, what I'm getting at, perhaps it's a rather clever spammer.

3:51 AM

@RegDwighт Perhaps they follow you around to the sites you visit and post similar things to perplex you.

Well, that might depend on whether Reg visits Music.SE: music.stackexchange.com/questions/7925/…

@Mahnax Perhaps it's me sleepwalking.

It's 5 am here.

@RegDwighт stirs plot on stove, adds flour

@waiwai933 haha, well, that's not two years ago though.

True, but it would answer Mahnax's theory of whether or not they're following you around.

3:53 AM

That link has been submitted to Reddit once, four days ago.

And I think I visited Music.SE exactly once, ten months ago.

Well I will leave you to investigate further if you so choose.

The attempt to make the spam relevant on Apple.SE was somewhat amusing: apple.stackexchange.com/questions/73396/…

I, on the other hand, so choose to choose the bed.

Night all!

Night!

@waiwai933 Haha, nice.

Tagged appletv, no less.

-7

Q: Online Shopping is really safe?

I have seen one great Belstaff Jacket at http://www.belstaffjackenstore.de. But I worry the online safety. I'm afraid the quality. Should I buy in the online shop?

I should be writing though.

I am bac on the Mac. The motherboard on my new PC, a Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H-WB Z77 R, gave up the ghost this morning and now I have to go through the hassle of getting it replaced. Fuck.

4:02 AM

No more Microsoft?

0

A: As a site about EL&U, should we maintain correct grammar, punctuation, etc. throughout the site?

In over a year, not a single person has downvoted either this question or the only posted answer (which agrees with OP's position that the text should be "grammaticised"). So I'm posting my answer because I like the current style. If anyone else agrees, they can upvote it. I started my previo...

…what?

He’s up too late.

Loco.

@tchrist Not till I get my replacement motherboard.

Ha, I just got a down-vote on a three-year-old post on SO, from someone who is assuming that HTML5 was the answer for everyone back then.

4:41 AM

@Robusto Your unfollowers unfollow you everywhere, eh?

Hi

Hello.

5:01 AM

How are you?

Did you complete your writing project?

@Mahnax here's Kit's foxfirekitty.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/…

@Noah Getting there right now.

Cool. How many more days do you have?

And I dont understand this answer at all. meta.english.stackexchange.com/a/3363/17953

Do you?

@DavidWallace Hey, what's up?

Read some of your messages. Is everything okay?

@Noah Today is my last day.

Alright.

Then you better hurry up.

I have around 1000 words left to write.

5:09 AM

Um, you mean today by 12:00 AM?

5:19 AM

Yep.

For me, that's in about 6000s.

1 hour later…

6:26 AM

Done!

Microsoft Word says I have 50308 words, but the website disagrees. Oh well.

6:43 AM

(added spaces around em-dashes as a test, and look at this!):

Much better.

6:59 AM

Congrat. @Mahnax

@Noah Hello Noah. Umm, sorry, I had a bit of a meltdown earlier and started spouting gibberish. I will be OK.

@DavidWallace Hi

Hope it was not a big one.

@Mahnax Hey, Mahnax, congratulations.

So how's life? @DavidWallace

@Noah I am now a little embarrassed. But stuff happens. I think I deleted the worst of my nonsense messages.

Thanks for your concern though.

What have you been up to lately, Noah?

7:02 AM

@DavidWallace No worries. We all have those moments.

Well, nothing much.

School and some stock related books.

Stock? Livestock? Vegetable stock? Shares?

I am kind of interested in playing online Forex. Well see how that goes.

Why forex? That's not stock.

Or do you mean trading foreign companies?

The website offers both.

Will you use real money? Or is it just a game?

7:07 AM

You can buy both currencies and real stock options.

No, it's all real.

Why don't you practise first, with fictional money, to find out whether you're any good at it?

But I'm a beginner so I dont take high risks.

I already did that part.

Right. But when you trade forex, the bank or the broker takes a huge cut. It makes it a difficult game to make any actual gains in. Most people just lose big.

Just like any other sort of gambling, I suppose.

But you dont really learn with ficitional money. You have to have a real account to take things seriously.

Well, I read stuff online. So I dont think it's gambling. You have to follow news and current events. That way you can predicate the future of a currency that you will be trading.

Oh, if only it were that easy.

And it is DEFINITELY gambling.

7:12 AM

How is that?

The news does not tell you what is going to happen to any currency. There is so much that can happen, that is outside of your purview. Thousands of factors can make a currency go up or down, so predicting it is extremely unreliable. That is, umm, kind of the definition of gambling.

I dont know. You might be right. That's one of the things that's keeping me on the fence. I am still researching that part.

If it were a sure thing, everybody would do it.

That's fine.

No worries.

OK. By the way, I too am comfortable. I don't mind if you say anything here that tells people I am a Muslim. It is not a secret.

7:21 AM

It's okay. I actually posted a question on Islam.SE. Though, havent got any answers yet.

Hmm. I am unlikely to be able to answer it, but shall I take a look?

Sure.

Right. I don't think it counts as riba, because there is no interest on forex. But it's definitely gambling.

Having said that, I own some shares. But I have never traded with them - I was given them, and one day I will sell them. I'm not sure whether that counts as riba or not; but it's not the largest of my riba sins.

@DavidWallace That's what one of the guys told me. I think Ashesh is doing some research on this issue. I hope we get a good answer soon.

I own a house with a mortgage on it, which is definitely riba. The thing is, the only way for me to stop committing riba with it would be to sell it, and then my family would not have a place to live. So I choose to sin, I suppose, because the alternative would be horrible.

7:28 AM

eToro actually gives you an Islamic account. But you have to have a minimum of 1000 USD in your account before they can switch your account over.

But deliberately buying a currency that you expect to rise in value, when no such thing is ever certain, is a whole different category.

@DavidWallace Thanks!

@Noah Thank you!

eToro is the trading site? And they do this to cater to Muslims who are concerned about riba but not about gambling? Weird.

@DavidWallace I think you need to consult a scholar about that. I am pretty sure there's a nice soultion for your situation.

@DavidWallace Yeah, that's right.

@Noah There are other problems that I must solve before I solve this one.

@Mahnax are you well?

7:32 AM

@DavidWallace For the most part, yes. How are you doing?

@DavidWallace I am just saying don't take things too seriously.

I think I read something by an American scholar. Let me send you that.

@Mahnax Poorly. I have a bad cold. My knee is still not working right. I am extremely angry with someone who deliberately upset me earlier. I have been fighting with my ex-wife too. And my mother, whom I haven't spoken to for around ten years, phoned my ex-wife and told her a number of horrible things about what I was like as a child.

@Noah No, umm, there are scholars here I can talk to. No need to send me anything.

But I must solve the problems in my life one at a time. The mortgage can wait.

@DavidWallace Sure. Just dont panic. Things take time.

@DavidWallace Everything is a test.

You are right. But I didn't study for this one.

@DavidWallace ?

It's okay.

7:41 AM

@DavidWallace That's awful. I'm very sorry to hear that.

I know what you are going through.

No, come on. At least we could talk things over. We could help you cross a street?

No. Here is not the right place for that, anyway.

Yeah. I know. I am sorry.

:7089022 No, come on.

It's okay. I dont mind it.

I mind it.

You shouldnt be. We are human. And we have our own ups and downs.

That's who we are.

7:49 AM

Bye.

Okay.

Bye

OK. I hope things improve for you. Goodbye.

@Mahnax So did you win?

Cannot belive you did it.

I will try to take part in this competition next year.

@Noah Yep, I got my 50k done.

Anyone who does is a winner.

Not sure if I will make it, but I will give it a try.

7:52 AM

Good. It's a lot of fun.

What do they give you?

Nothing.

No trophy? Ticket?

They give you a little picture that says you did it and some discounts for things related to books, I guess.

@Mahnax Umm. I think it would be good for CV?

7:54 AM

@Noah CV?

Cardiovascular?

Curriculum vitae?

@Mahnax Come on, dude. You know what I mean.

@Noah No, I don't.

@Mahnax Okay, it's the second one.

Although I'm guessing it's curriculum vitae.

Ah. No, I wouldn't use it for that.

@Mahnax okay.

But do you want to become a writer?

7:56 AM

No.

Was this just to hone your skills.

?

This was just to see if I could do it, to become a bit of a better writer, to practice being motivated, and to have a bit of fun.

@Mahnax Fair enough. That's great.

@Noah I'd say I was reasonably successful. 10/10, would WriMo again.

@Mahnax Okay, great. I can see how 8 turned to 10 in a matter of seconds.

8:01 AM

@Noah Yes, I changed my mind.

Okay. Your mind changed your guesstimate.

Guesstimate? It's not a guesstimate, it's a rating.

@Mahnax Whatever. It was your rating?

8:24 AM

Hey, cut that out.

@tchrist ?

We call that irony. You were cutting out things people said.

Read: it was a joke.

:P

1 hour later…

Matt Эллен

9:51 AM

@Mahnax congratulations!

3 hours later…

12:48 PM

@Mahnax Hey, you dropped a word.

2 hours later…

2:27 PM

Hi!

Hullo.

2

Q: Lost Bid, Quest, Effort, Attempt

If the situation is someone trying to get more funding: He lost his (battle / fight / bid / quest / effort / attempt) to secure more funding. I have heard and seen the construct "lost his __ " used with "battle" and "fight". Would the remaining four nouns work as well?

grammar idioms word-usage

@RegDwighт, @Kit, @waiwai933: clean-up on aisle Nortonn.

Hey, is bid as common in the titles of American newspaper articles as it is in England?

No doubt for brevity.

Or, rather, shortness.

@Cerberus Probably more so, given that it's a three-letter word. Also English.

Why more so?

Because it's short and informal.

2:36 PM

I suppose you are a bit short and informal.

But...so are many Brits!

Well, Google loses bid and see what the top hits are. They all look American to me, but maybe Google services Europe with European headlines. I dunno.

Yeah.

So it is equally common on all Atlantic shores.

BTW, I bet "loses bid" is more popular than "wins bid" ...

At least American headlines don't use the Syria crisis as often as the Brits do. That is so ugly, it's almost Chinese.

Not that Chinese is ugly, but sinicisms are ugly (just like gallicisms, germanisms, etc.).

@Robusto Oh yes, absolutely.

@Cerberus You're too sinical.

2:39 PM

Maybe.

I am a cyôn, after all.

archimedes.fas.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/…

I still don't see what the big deal is with nanowrimo. Why would churning out prose to the beat of a word count qualify as anything but an encouragement to write bad prose?

I don't get it either.

I suppose it is some way to motivate oneself to write at all.

No offense to those involved, but if you need that kind of motivation, maybe writing isn't the best course for you. If you don't do it because you love it and are driven to do it because you have something that needs to be said, well ...

Some of the best writers were terrible procrastinators.

Mark Twain, for example. But what he did produce was excellent.

2:43 PM

Hence unfinished Der Process, etc.

Writing is hard, and it ought to be hard.

This may lower the mental threshold a bit for the next time, when you're writing something more serious.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

It certainly doesn't float my boat (I'll leave that to Charon).

He likes transferring cynes.

But I'm reminded of Samuel Johnson's comment when he heard a violinist playing a piece poorly. Someone objected to his criticism, saying the piece was very difficult. He replied, "Difficult? I wish it were impossible!"

2:46 PM

Haha.

That's harsh.

That's Sam Johnson for you.

Was he the dictionary editor?

Or am I confusing people.

Yes. And he was harsh there too. Look at his famous definition of oats: "Food for horses in England and people in Scotland."

Haha.

Nice.

Except that one normally makes such jokes in private, not in public.

Still less in print.

But Johnson didn't care.

> After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."

2:49 PM

Funny, but crude.

> "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

> No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.

> Second marriages represent the triumph of hope over experience.

And to Lord Chesterfield, who offered patronage to Johnson after the latter became famous:

The patriotism thing is true.

> Is not a Patron, my Lord, one who looks with unconcern on a man struggling for life in the water, and, when he has reached ground, encumbers him with help?

Ya tweened me.

Also true.

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Say bye-bye.

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Matt Эллен

after Godzilla attacked?

3:01 PM

The owner was given € 32k to give up the house, after he had spent € 74 building it.

Matt Эллен

:(

@MattЭллен Yes, aka. the Chinese government.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto I am a blockhead

@MattЭллен Me too, mostly.

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This tunnel drill is called Noortje, a cute little-girl's name.

Like Lilly.

3:07 PM

Depends on your definition of cute.

You don't find Noortje cute?

Call me crazy, but no.

It is like Éléonore, but with the diminutive suffix -(t)je, which indicates, well, littleness.

Diminutive indicates littleness? Stop the presses!

And the drills.

3:14 PM

AFK to go run errands. It's snowing! Yuk.

Ew.

It's still well above zero here.

3:36 PM

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An Antwerp neighbourhood abandoned after expansions of the port.

user image

1 hour ago, by Robusto

@RegDwighт, @Kit, @waiwai933: clean-up on aisle Nortonn.

Maunsell Forts, Groot-Brittannië. Once built to house anti-aircraft installations against the Germans and to stop boats from invading, in the Thames.

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Ordos-Kangbashi, Binnen-Mongolië. New city where nobody wants to live (nor does live).

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Chernobyl.

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Check out this neighborhood. I guess the austerity measures have taken their toll.

Way cool!

Stupid Turks, what were you thinking, storing ammunition on the Parthenon??

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Another abandoned habitation.

3:47 PM

Oh I know that one.

Britain or Ireland.

What was it again? A tumulus?

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And where do you think this is?

Hint: nobody lives there.

If nobody lives there...Why can I see smoke there?

:P

Well, I didn't say there were no people there.

They just don't live there.

Hint:

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@Cerberus That is Old Sarum.

This ^ building is about 15,000 km away from the first picture.

Old Sarum () is the site of the earliest settlement of Salisbury, in England. The site contains evidence of human habitation as early as 3000 BC. Old Sarum is mentioned in some of the earliest records in the country. It is located on a hill about two miles north of modern Salisbury adjacent to the A345 road. Old Sarum was originally an Iron age hill fort strategically placed on the conjunction of two trade routes and the River Avon. The hill fort is broadly oval in shape, in length and in width, it consists of a double bank and intermediate ditch with an entrance on the eastern side....

3:50 PM

Ah yes.

Nice.

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How it might have looked in the day.

Although that would have been after the Norman Conquest.

Cool.

Yeah, looks pretty "new".

Old Sarum dates back to Roman times, IIRC.

3 mins ago, by Cerberus

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So this is in China.

"Holland Village".

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This is next to Holland Village, another town in this "One City, Nine Towns" project.

Kung Pao Village.

3:54 PM

What?

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Australian cigarettes.

I like this.

Do you smoke?

How do you say "I [fluctuate~vacillate] between positions A and B", as in I sometimes agree with A, at other times with B?

@Robusto Nope.

@Cerberus Vacillate.

I suppose you could use fluctuate, but that seems a little off.

But vacillating implies a certain...weakness.

Yes, fluctuate is not used for people.

@Cerberus Only if changing your position is a sign of weakness.

3:58 PM

So I need something in between fluctuate and vacillate.

@Robusto Maybe.

Somehow vacillate doesn't sound much better than hesitate.

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Dec '121

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