English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2012-11-30 (page 1 of 6)

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TemporaryNickName

12:00 AM

how do you judge someone else is good in English by look at his writing?

First you have to be good at it yourself.

TemporaryNickName

right

@tchrist I used to know a woman who could sing two notes an augmented fourth apart (no other interval). I imagine twelve of her could probably do it.

Oh!

I keep forgetting what it is to be more in tune than a piano or an orchestra can ever be. I have goosebumps all over now.

12:09 AM

Hahaha.

My father used to be the director of a small church choir. He firmly believed that there was a particular piece of music (which they always sang unaccompanied) that they sang in just intonation, rather than equal temperament. I think he was dreaming, but I never got round to proving him wrong.

Certainly one should.

He forbade the church organist from playing this particular piece, in case someone in the choir heard it, and reverted to singing it in equal temperament at a later date.

What's to stop them from doing so a capella?

You never hear a barbershop quartet with accompaniment, lest you should lose the fifth voice in the quartet.

12:13 AM

Physically nothing at all. Other than each of them having a lifetime of hearing nothing but equal temperament.

@tchrist Well, the heavens are made of aether. They are very serene.

My volume is too pumped for that ping to be serene. :(

I was listening to Rob’s choir.

Gesualdo was an oft-overlooked master, well ahead of his time.

As to your editing a Meta-question of a person concerned about people editing his questions—if you can't see how that is trolling, I have nothing more to say.

> A cappella groups that depend on close harmonies, such as barbershop quartets, usually use just intonation by design.

Hm.

12:17 AM

Especially after yesterday's ordeal.

@tchrist That in no way implies that my father's choir were capable of it.

I have a WTC that is actually WT, not ET.

Compare this with this. Hear all the wolves in the chords played in equal temperament, whereas the just tuning is simply radiant.

Not disputing the fact that JI sounds different from ET. Just disputing my father's delusions.

@Robusto Yes, exactly.

12:23 AM

The best music is vocal music. And here I am, born without a singing voice.

Silvestro Ganassi dal Fontego, in his Opera Intitulata Fontegara, says it is the goal of all instruments to emulate the human voice. I think that says it best.

I sang beautifully as a child, but I sing horribly as an adult. It's very frustrating.

Mahlzeit!

Temporary - why did you remove that? It was a good question.

I think Tori Amos has an album that was intentionally done using just intonation, but now I cannot find the reference.

@MετάEd I can’t closevote again. It evaporated. Truly. I have gone through every single one of his questions, without fail, to make sure I had closevoted every one of them. I have. They just don’t always show up because of . . . well . . . slackerism.

@Robusto Thank you for the music.

TemporaryNickName

@DavidWallace I just googled it heh :/

12:35 AM

@tchrist How charitable of you.

Hey, does anybody know of any video editing software that will let me take four video clips and compose them split-screen, like one in each canton of the finished product?

TemporaryNickName

@DavidWallace movie maker if you are using windows or iMovie if you are using Mac

I'm pretty sure you can do it with most of video editing software.

Seriously? Windows Live Movie Maker? I have that, but I don't know how to do it.

TemporaryNickName

absolutely

I think you can find some video tutorials on how to do it on Youtube

That would be fantastic, if you could.

Actually, I think I just found one myself.

@DavidWallace If you expect us to dispense charity towards NortonnS, then you are completely out of your mind. He is an abuser and a predator. He deserves the uttermost annihilation of his content.

12:43 AM

Oh him! I thought you were still talking about Chris. Please accept my apologies.

Go ask Waiwai or somebody if you lack the history.

Why in the world would I do that?

When someone says something that you take to be outrageous, consider whether you might not have heard what they said.

OK, I'm sorry.

Kiss and make up, now. And then go through the Nortonn list.

G'nite all.

TemporaryNickName

@DavidWallace Hmmmm, I found how to split screens for 2 videos in movie maker but I'm not sure about splitting screens for 4 videos lol

I'm watching a young girl called Laura doing it right now, with two videos.

TemporaryNickName

12:49 AM

lol

Actually, she's not doing the split screen thing. She's putting two of herself into the same scene. Which would also meet my requirements.

TemporaryNickName

two of herself lol

@DavidWallace All right.

@TemporaryNickName Which punctuation mark does that “lol” stand for?

TemporaryNickName

lol looks like pacman from front perspective so I use it to describe pacman

15 hours ago, by RegDwighт

These days people will use LOL as replacement for punctuation.

15 hours ago, by RegDwighт

21 hours ago, by Matt Эллен

l☹l

TemporaryNickName

12:53 AM

l☹l

Temporary and I have already discussed their use of lol.

TemporaryNickName

sweet

☹⃣

☹⃠

Hmm, Laura uses PowerPoint to compose her two videos, then uses the desktop capture feature to convert it back into a video. Interesting.

☹⃢

Only the keycap looks very good to me.

It looks like somebody trapped behind a front-loading dryer.

TemporaryNickName

12:56 AM

=p

it looks like a dude with tongue out

Oh, we have those, too.

😜

😝

👅

That one is just the best.

TemporaryNickName

👅

👅⃣

@DavidWallace My English teacher would have your head.

Not counting U+1D18A MUSICAL SYMBOL COMBINING DOUBLE TONGUE or U+1D18B MUSICAL SYMBOL COMBINING TRIPLE TONGUE.

12:59 AM

Hello, by the way.

@Mahnax Take a number.

Umm, I mean hello Mahnax.

@tchrist She can, I'm fine without.

@DavidWallace Hi there. What've you deleted?

Never mind.

𐇑  101D1      PHAISTOS DISC SIGN PLUMED HEAD

1:00 AM

Er, okay.

You aren’t old enough. :)

For?

Well, many things, I suppose.

That would be telling, now wouldn’t it? David was using vulgar English instead of cloaking his urges in Vulgar Latin instead.

Aha.

I was about to say "I don't know how to say it in Latin", then I realised that I actually DO.

1:03 AM

Exactly.

Say what?

You've summoned the Latin Kerberos, congratulations!

Yes.

rubs paws

I said to Mahnax - IkweigeromhethoofdtegevenaanuwleraarEngels

Het hoofd te geven?

1:05 AM

(Spaces removed to stop anyone who doesn't speak Dutch using google translate)

Thatafella!

What does that mean?

@DavidWallace Smart thinking!

What does what mean?

@Cerberus It's a literal translation where I should have used a figurative one.

Umm...

If I translate it literally into English, it still doesn't mean anything...

Except if you remove the article?

Then it becomes obscene.

1:07 AM

Hence the mutated thataboy.

@Cerberus Which is why I deleted it.

I've cracked your code, Mr. Wallace. I'm on to you.

@DavidWallace You mean added.

@Mahnax Hang on to your prepositions, grasshopper.

@Cerberus No, I'm referring to the entire remark.

which I remind you was a response to Mahnax saying "My English teacher would have your head".

1:08 AM

Iactuallythinkyourtricktoremovespacesinordertoconfusegoogletranslateisratherclev‌erandeffective.

@DavidWallace Ah, got it.

@Cerberus Tricky, but give me a few hours and I'll decipher it.

The English?

Surely that's easy enough?

Or the Dutch?

joking

Ah...

There's no point in deleting an obscene remark if I have to spend the next ten minutes explaining what it was.

1:10 AM

Silly Kerby.

With some experimenting, you should be able to crack the Dutch too, through Google Translate.

I did crack the Dutch.

Good.

It didn't take long at all.

Cracking jokes and the Dutch.

1:11 AM

Then you were an excellent test subject. Thank you Mahnax.

How did you do it? Just guess the word boundaries?

You provided many of them to help him.

True.

I didn't notice that—I was in the other tab already.

I just guessed where the spaces went using what little Dutch I know.

Excellent.

ATTEMPTALATINAHOCMODOTRANSFERREETVINCERIS.

1:13 AM

Next time, I will use a mixture of Dutch and Latin, with spaces removed. And you may reply using a mixture of French and Croatian, also with spaces removed. Does that suit?

A hoc modo transferre et vinceris, I think.

If I can pick a different language instead of Croatian.

A HOC MODO TRANSFERRE ET VINCERIS?

Oh.

Not "A", but the rest is right!

But it has to be one that I can understand without using GT.

And I.

1:15 AM

Or at least understand well enough to work out where the spaces have to go.

No, no, ... YOU use GT.

Just as I would be using GT to write the Dutch bits.

But I never use GT!

Bing translate, then!

Stoop so low, if you dare.

Haha.

Never.

Use the translation tool of your choice to produce Croatian, and then remove the spaces.

I want to use my own mind.

1:16 AM

I will understand it if you do. But not many other people here will.

Try some Croatian.

I will try to add spaces.

12 hours ago, by tchrist

Theyseemtothinkthatyoudonotneedspacestoreadseparatewordswhichissomethingthatifor‌onehavemorethanalittletroublewithbutidonotknowaboutotherpeoplewhomighthavesomeone‌gottenusedtothisstyleofillegibilitybynowunderthemodernbusinessorientednoneducatio‌nalsystemthatseemsdominanttoday.

I wonder how hard that will be.

Try a simple sentence.

I just did. :)

But I swapped someone in for somewhat. Again.

I noticed.

1:18 AM

What I want to know is why my web browser splat that at word boundaries, when there weren’t any.

That is readable enough. Not very comfortable, though.

It broke for/one and someone/gotten.

How come?

Hmm odd.

Try again.

Wait, that is SE.

Add a few words.

1:19 AM

It must do that.

@DavidWallace Where's your Croatian?

That, by the way, is what the current trendy style of program variables looks like. I hate it. I prefer spaces between my words.

Programmers are far from aesthetically proficient, if I may say so.

Try this - Jasamzmijatisižabažabamožešdabježišalidžabadžaba

Yeah that's hard.

1:21 AM

@Cerberus The good ones are. You don’t have sloppy math proofs, do you? Aesthetics is critical.

Because I don't even know how to pronounce it.

I wonder why they gave Ian Holm a droopy wig this time.

ž is like a French J. š is like an English SH. j is like German and Dutch, not like English.

user image

You'd think he would have changed his clothes, in 11 years. You can see how yellow his shirt got in that time.

1:24 AM

Indeed.

Ja sam zmija ti si žaba žaba možeš da bjež iš alid ža bad žaba?

Hmm, that's very good. You were perfect until about 2/3 of the way through, when it all fell apart.

They definitely have a color-temperature difference there.

Yeah, I had no clue what to do with the end.

Let me try again, if that's okay.

Hint. dž is a single letter.

1:25 AM

Jasamz mi jatisi žaba žabamo žešdabje žišalid žabad žaba.

Okay I have no freaking clue.

Ja sam zmija ti si žaba žaba možeš da bježiš ali džaba džaba?

@Cerberus You got one word right. Mah got 9 first time, and a perfect score the second time.

Yay!

Woohoo!

I knew it.

I was just adding arbitrary spaces.

@Mahnax How did you do it?

1:27 AM

It's a song. It means "I am a snake; you are a frog, a frog. You can run away, but in vain, in vain".

@Cerberus Magic.

That's all?

You didn't leave this tab?

Well, I could try you all on the next two lines.

I officially give up.

@Cerberus I checked to see how close I was to actual language after I added spaces.

1:29 AM

Ahh.

@DavidWallace Do it! I won't leave this tab at all this time.

Please, I mean.

Sure, if I can look at actual Croatian...

I mean, Serbo-Croatian...

ikadaupadnešuzamkutuušipražjuujednomzalogajutebejaprogutatću

@Cerberus Now who's trolling?

Never said I wasn't.

BRB about 10 minutes.

1:35 AM

@Mahnax We can try translitterated Greek, would you like that?

i kada upadneš uzamku tuu ši pražju ujed nom zaloga ju tebe ja prog utatću?

@Cerberus Sure.

Okay.

Do I have permission to throw what I've just posted into GT now that I'm done?

Polladhogenpontôipathenalgeahonkatathumon.

@Mahnax You have mine!

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus gesundheit.

1:38 AM

OK.

This will probably be easy, as it is a famous line.

@cornbreadninja Danke.

Well, I did an awful job on that one.

Oh well.

No doubt you scored better than my 1!

Maybe a little.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist it's just V05 hot oil.

little lambzy divey

1:40 AM

I can't make head or tail of that Greek. Wow.

@Mahnax That was really quite close

@DavidWallace Really?

Polladho genpon toi pathen algea hon katathumon?

@Mahnax Really? What if you just Google and try a few combinations?

@DavidWallace "pathen algea hon" is correct!

@Cerberus I honestly have no clue.

1:44 AM

@cornbreadninja That, and they’ve used the computer to undo the aging effects that 11-13 years have done to Sirs Ian Holm and Christopher Lee, and perhaps also to Elijah Wood’s cheekbones-you-could-cut-yourself-on.

@Mahnax Hmm okay, I didn't know it was that hard.

OK, can I try with digital aids now?

@Cerberus Well, I don't really know Greek.

@DavidWallace Sure!

I'll give the first bit a try, though.

Since David figured out the rest.

1:45 AM

@Mahnax And Croatian...

I just googled "pathen algea hon" (which was kind of cheating) and can now see the whole line. The first bit is tricky.

Polla dhog en pontôi?

@DavidWallace That's how I expected you would do it.

@Mahnax 3/4!

@Cerberus That's not so bad.

Well, 2/4.

1:47 AM

Oh…

Mahnax - the parts that you got correct were "i kada upadneš ... tebe ja ..." Sorry, it wasn't quite as good as I thought when I first saw it.

Well, 3.

Depends.

Polla, en, pontôi are correct!

The remainder is three words, two apostrophes.

Apostrophes? That's rude.

Greeks has lots.

Short vowels are often elided in case of hiatus.

In case of hiatus, elide here.

1:49 AM

And h doesn't count as a consonant.

So d' ho g'.

So you're quite good.

Now let's see how you do with Greek letters, one sec...

πολλῶνδἀνθρώπωνἴδενἄστεακαὶνόονἔγνω

cornbread ninja

@tchrist That kid was supposed to turn out way hotter than he did. He's just creepy as an adult.

But I digress.

@cornbreadninja He is, he is.

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus Poll . . .

Hint: breathing marks (look like c and ɔ) can only occur on the first letters of a word, or on the second if both first and second are vowels.

He prolly has an axe hidden somewhere.

1:52 AM

@cornbreadninja Not yet a word!

cornbread ninja

@tchrist yeah.

@Cerberus not sure what the 5th one is.

Hint no. 2: the gravis (looks like `) can only occur in the final syllable of a word.

@cornbreadninja Long o.

cornbread ninja

@Cerberus ooooh.

Er, ohhhh.

Called o-mega, "o-large".

So, yes, oooooh!

user image

cornbread ninja

1:54 AM

@tchrist put it away!

That’s a new one. We think they filed off his cheekbones and crow’s feet.

You probably know minuscle omega from rotational velocity in physics?

@Cerberus Ikwildedezetechniektetesten, utnobisloquentibusTofTadsit.

ω

ϖ

1:55 AM

@DavidWallace It's not correct, but I understand most of it, up to "TofT"—what is that?

Which is a pi, not an omega, perversely enough.

It's an acronym you and I have used before.

Hmm let me think.

Ahh!

Haha.

The Latin doesn't make sense. But I can guess what situation you are referring to from the lexical meaning of the words.

I don't know enough Greek letters to even have any idea how to deal with that, Cerby.

@Mahnax Yeah, I understand.

1:57 AM

One second.

But the vowels look much like Latin vowels, except omega and eta.

Look, I haven't studied Latin since 1986. But, umm, it's an ablative absolute with a subjunctive, right? What did I do wrong?

Eta looks like our minuscle h.

The v things are Ns, right?

Yes!

7 mins ago, by Cerberus

πολλῶνδἀνθρώπωνἴδενἄστεακαὶνόονἔγνω

@DavidWallace Is ut supposed to mean "when"?

1:59 AM

It's not the same phrase as before though, is it?

@Cerberus "in case".

Okay.

It looks like it at first, but then there is an N before the D.

Doesn't it?

Then I understand what you mean.

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Nov '1230

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