Anybody here ever use the word scrum?

as in scrum/agile?

No, as in scrum=throng, or even scrum=scrumptious.

The latter is something you might hear from youth, but the former is quasi-new to me.

I think there’s a verb use, too, but I forget it for the nonce.

Right. The verb use is to jostle or crowd, from the noun.

That is all unfamiliar to me.

Apparently the noun (and thence verb) are abbreviations of scrummage, an alternative to scrimmage.

It's a rugby term.

Ah, that would explain why I don’t hear it.

Hello.

I have posted an answer on Linguistics that is way too long.

and not related to scrimmage.

Oh?

And oh?

(distributively)

Hah.

Well, it may have similar etymology, I don't know. But "scrimmage" in American football is not the same thing as "scrum/scrummage" in Rugby football.

What is scrummage?

(Well, it couldn't have said it in fewer words without leaving out essential stuff, but it is long.)

ars longa = ghetto booty

I am reading it now.

@tchrist Haha.

@DavidWallace Inadvisable!

TL;DR

Wow, you did say it was long.

Are you saying you posted something that was inadvisable to read?

Performative is not a word one hears every day.

@DavidWallace Unless you're specifically interested in the subject.

Unfortunately, performant has begun to be.

What a lovely answer.

@tchrist Eight bodies pushing against eight other bodies.

Or a different number if you're playing a different version of Rugby football.

A modern shield phalanx, then?

@tchrist What is that about.

Kind of. I'm sure you can find a video of one if you look hard enough.

@DavidWallace Thanks!

I don’t think I could tell you what a scrimmage is.

And although scrum is short for scrummage, it's more common to use scrum as a noun, and scrummage as a verb.

And I think scrimmage is a mass noun, unlike scrum.

I think I have only heard it in line of scrimmage.

But I know almost nothing about American Football, so I couldn't say.

So @Cerberus, was there a point to your utterance?

OED has both Rugby and Football defs for scrimmage. Doesn’t look massy.

It's NOT a Rugby term.

@DavidWallace Which one?

If OED says that Rugby football has scrimmage, it is wrong.

> 4. a. Rugby Football. Originally, a confused struggle in which the players on either side endeavor to force their opponents and the ball towards the opposite goal; now, an ordered formation in which the two sets of forwards pack themselves together with their heads down and endeavour by pushing to work their opponents off the ball and break away with it or heel it out.

@Cerberus Your announcement that you had made a posting that was far too long.

> Phr. to carry the scrimmage, to gain ground in a scrimmage. to hold the scrimmage, to prevent one’s opponents from gaining ground.

That is under 4a.

Which is labelled “Rugby Football”.

@DavidWallace Ahm, oh.

No Rugby football player calls that scrimmage. Not one. Nowhere in the world.

Well, you should write them. :)

> Shearman Athletics & Football 311 ― The first and essential requisite to a forward team is that it should be able to ‘hold’, if not always to ‘carry the scrimmage’.

And how old is that reference? You will notice that I used the present tense, in my sweeping generalisation.

4b is also ruggbied: “b. A tussle for the ball among players (in various games).”

Oh, these are all from Her Victorian Majesty’s reign.

Exactly.

And yet they have not marked them obsolete as the two older, and somewhat interesting, uses are so marked.

> Etymology: Altered form of scrimish sb., the ending being associated with -age suffix. Cf. the parallel skirmage, obs. var. of skirmish sb.

There was an episode of Friends in which Ross played Rugby football. The "scrum" that he participated in really wasn't. It was something that the writers made up.

> † 1. = skirmish sb. Also, a fencing bout. Obs.

> † 2. An outcry, alarm; = scrimish sb. 2. Obs.

Those ones are dead.

This one is new, but not familiar to me:

> 1979 This England Winter 28/2 ― The doors of St. Paul’s revolve like Marks and Spencer’s onto the scrimmage round its book‐stalls.

I guess it is just a tussle there.

Here’s the American use:

> 1981 NCAA Football Rules & Interpretations fr-30 ― The neutral zone is the space between the two lines of scrimmage and is established when the ball is ready for play.

> 4c. Amer. Football. (a).A sequence of play which is started when two lines of opposing players are ranked parallel to the goal-lines, and a centre holds the ball between the teams before handing or passing it to one of his backs (b).A session in which an offensive squad practises plays against a defensive squad.

Like a jump ball?

Hm, maybe not.

That video features the Warratahs (based in Sydney, Australia) and the Chiefs (based in Hamilton, NZ).

What is the story of the first word, Warratahs?