English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Kit

2:00 PM

@JSBangs You read something about me then cited it in a coincidentally timely fashion! I'm so flattered!

Grace Note

@Kit They're edible sustenants in that they provide sustenance, but I never particularly desired either of those.

Especially after college. Good heavens, did I tire of pizza after college.

Kit

@aedia Sunflower seeds, cheese, guacamole.

Mana

Hullo hullo.

Grace Note

Maaaaaaaana

Kit

@GraceNote Well, we make them at home together, so all fresh stuff and we've all got Irish roots, so potatoes, well, you know.

JSBangs

2:01 PM

@Mana who are you? your avatar looks familiar. have we met before?

Mana

I thought this was a pretty interesting article on writing and that I would share. dextronet.com/blog/2011/07/accidental-genius-summary

Grace Note

@Kit Pizza and fries are not a staple of my home cooking in comparison to steak and Taiwanese cooking.

Mana

@JsBangs If you read Homestuck then that would explain the familiar avatar. If you've been on forums with lots of people with Homestuck avatars that would also explain it.

Grace Note

Remind me, @Mana, to ask about that starred message the next time I go to the Bridge. I'm deathly curious about it.

JSBangs

@GraceNote hey, wow, can i come eat at your house?

Kit

2:02 PM

@GraceNote We also do Indian and Thai cuisine.

Mana

Also I'm just awesome, so. shrug You've probably heard of me.

2

aedia

@Kit Mmm. Fats shouldn't be the problem then. I personally have never managed to give up enough carbs to go into whatchamacallit... ketosis? I have some friends who tried for a few weeks and they said the first couple days they felt bad/sick and headachey, and then after that, great. But I think they even gave up a lot of fruits.

Grace Note

@Kit Two cuisines which are also largely absent from my diet

JSBangs

@Mana no, i've seen you answering on gaming.se

aedia

Hi @Mana!

Mana

2:04 PM

Oh cool.

Grace Note

@JSBangs Whatever happened to your Bomb, or do you still use it on some sites?

Mana

Hello! :)

@Grace which starred message was that?

Grace Note

@Mana Which one do you think I'd be asking you specifically about, whilst smiling sincerely yet still radiating an ideally threatening aura in your general direction? ♪

JSBangs

@GraceNote i got tired of being the bomb and decided to be Magus instead

Grace Note

@JSBangs Can't really argue with that logic

Mana

2:06 PM

@Grace ...yeah that's what I feared. In my defense I wasn't one of the ones who starred it?? :D

RegDwight

I know @Mana's secret. I played with it a lot as a child.

Mana

@RegDwight I love you.

RegDwight

Jul 14 at 16:01, by RegDwight

@Kit No flirting in this chat.

Mana

It was platonic love.

RegDwight

And my quote was @Kit.

So.

Mana

2:07 PM

Oh.

RegDwight

Harhar.

Mana

Well cool. But yeah, sick game, and also what I named myself after.

Robusto

1

Q: Generic word for clitoris and penis?

It's the same thing after all. A micropenis is a macroclitoris.

Oh, fer chrissakes.

Mana

Wow.

That is a thing.

JSBangs

kill it with fire

Grace Note

2:08 PM

I... um... I don't even know how I'm supposed to react

JSBangs

i just voted NARQ

Mana

That is most certainly a thing.

Grace Note

I'd flag NARQ but it seems highly unnecessary when a lot of close votes will sweep in anyway.

Robusto

You see, this is why we need mod flags that keep things off the multi-collider.

Jez

tee hee hee @ that question

Grace Note

2:10 PM

@Robusto Is it actually getting tons of views/votes?

Mana

Is this actually on the multicollider already?

Jez

how unprofessional in an executive boardroom that would look

RegDwight

Well, it's not as stupid as "Generic word for spouse and litotes".

Robusto

@GraceNote — How can it not?

RegDwight

I can totally imagine that those crazy doctors have a name for everything.

Grace Note

2:11 PM

@Robusto Ideally by people noticing it's a very bare question and voting it down.

Robusto

@RegDwight — I didn't not know you weren't going to not say that.

Grace Note

Y'know, whilst closing even, since you can do that.

RegDwight

@Robusto Yeah, but the spouse part, how does it tie in?

Jez

@RegDwight actually, why is it logical to protect those questions immediately? are taboo topics more likely to ellicit a trivial response?

RegDwight

@Jez They actually are.

From experience.

Grace Note

2:11 PM

@Jez They do

Robusto

@RegDwight — Because you're nagging me about it, that's how.

RegDwight

That's why we agreed upon protecting all by ourselves. Kosmo and me.

Mana

@RegDwight So...basically you?

RegDwight

Well I am sure if nohat were here right now he wouldn't exactly kill me for that.

Grace Note

I can't see him opposing that course of action.

RegDwight

2:13 PM

How's that for a litotes.

Also, I propose that litotes be called loltotes henceforth, and I accept.

JSBangs

@RegDwight is nohat ever here?

RegDwight

Sure.

Grace Note

@JSBangs Pesters us to flag, really

aedia

@JSBangs He was here. You missed him.

Grace Note

Also does all kinds of ruly stuffs

Mana

2:14 PM

I miss him.

RegDwight

Unruly, too.

Jez

is 'litotes' singular and plural?

Grace Note

@RegDwight He seemed decided not unruly.

RegDwight

Loltotes, Jez. Loltotes. And yes.

Except on Thursdays.

JSBangs

@RegDwight loltotes exists beyond the singular/plural dichotomy. loltotes will blow your mind

Grace Note

2:16 PM

Hm... an extra i gets us a small bag.

Robusto

0

Q: Isn't EL&U a special case among StackExchange sites? Don't we need special mod privileges?

What I'm talking about is summed up in this question. This is, unfortunately, a legitimate question about English, however poor in quality and whatever its Beavis & Butthead quotient (off the charts, I should think), but it's headed straight for the multi-collider, and we know what happens t...

feature-request

Jez

why did that question get downvoted so much?

Grace Note

@Jez Low quality, I'd guess. Plus those who agree it is NARQ

RegDwight

@Robusto You are aware of this:

11

A: Should EL&U be removed from the multicollider, etc.?

The mods have previously agreed that whenever a question is dealing with an "offensive" term, we protect it as soon as we see it. Pre-emptively. So, one idea we just had in chat would be to take protected questions off the Collider (and the cross-site ads, and the Twitter feed). Wholesale. Afte...

arencha?

And Jeff's reaction?

Grace Note

@Robusto I wouldn't really purport it as EL&U needing to be a special case. This can make sense on other sites as well.

Jez

2:19 PM

Beavis & Butthead quotient - BBQ?

> Our site alone among all SE sites can be gamed in this way.

Kit

I downvoted, but answered anyway. I figured a clean, accurate answer would take the fun out of things.

Jez

I doubt it's English alone

Grace Note

Skeptics actually gets complaints from other sites about the stuff that appears in the collider and the Area 51 ads for their questions.

Robusto

@RegDwight I'm aware of the argument, yes. And, yes, it's essentially the same question. But it needs to be said again. Note that my question doesn't infringe on your patent rights because mine suggests a separate flag for this purpose, not a wholesale prevention of all protected questions from multi-collidering.

Jez

@Kit why would you wish to do that?

Kit

2:20 PM

@Jez Because of FF's comment on the other answer, actually.

Mana

@RegDwight I'm unconvinced that that's the best approach, though. There are good, inoffensive questions on other sites which get lots of upvotes and poor answers from new users, forcing protection.

RegDwight

@Robusto Nah, I'm just trying to foretell Jeff's reaction.

JSBangs

@GraceNote oh, heck, i know i complain about skeptics.se all the time here on english chat

Robusto

If it would be useful for other sites, so much the better.

Grace Note

@JSBangs You've noticed their obsession with poop, too, haven't you?

JSBangs

2:21 PM

i actually strongly favor the idea of blocking protected questions from multicollidering

can we make that a feature request?

Kit

@JSBangs Me too.

Grace Note

@Mana Usually by the time those get protection on other sites, they are long off the collider.

Kit

@RegDwight @JSBangs here, this question.

JSBangs

the other option is to actually lock the question, which prevents voting, which should make it drop off the multicollider very quickly

but that's an extreme measure

Grace Note

Or stop it from getting there in the first place

And there's not really a good reason to lock a question like that.

RegDwight

2:23 PM

@JSBangs I've been contemplating that on more than one occasion.

Because MC only picks up fresh questions.

Mana

@Grace Fair enough. I'm just thinking it's a possibility.

RegDwight

So if I freeze a question for a day or two, and then unlock it, then we can have our cake and eat it, too.

JSBangs

@RegDwight still that seems like a lot of work

Robusto

It is the multi-collider that is the problem. We need a governor on that throttle.

Grace Note

'cept for all the heat you'll get for "denying a question on the fresh time".

RegDwight

2:24 PM

Except that TPTB would freaking kill me for circumventing the system like that.

Grace Note

@Robusto (You technically also run the risk of issue with the A51 ads, actually)

Jez

It's the large hadron collider that is the problem.

Mana

Oh, hey, I forgot about those. Yeah, that would be kind of bad.

JSBangs

i'm going to make an explicit feature request over at meta.SO (since it's not specific to ELU, but affects the whole network)

RegDwight

@GraceNote I don't think the community would mind taking the question off the collider like that. As to the OP, well, all they should care about is getting an awesome answer. For which they certainly can wait an additional day, right? Right?

Grace Note

2:25 PM

@JSBangs Search first

aedia

@GraceNote Those ads on the side? Are those picked differently from multicollided stuff?

Mana

Can you imagine seeing "Generic word for clitoris and penis?" on an ad on like Gaming? That would almost be hilarious.

Robusto

@GraceNote — I don't give a flying f*** about Area f******* 51. Let them solve their own problems, or use a suggestion like mine.

Grace Note

@Robusto I mean the ads used to promote your questions on other sites - they draw not dissimilar to how the multi-collider picks stuff

RegDwight

And don't forget Twitter.

Grace Note

2:26 PM

So that reaction seems a bit... um... kinda... hrm...

Robusto

@GraceNote — Exasperated?

z7sg

Robusto really is in a grump today!

Grace Note

@RegDwight The number of people whining about not being able to put bounties on the very first day gives me less than confidence on the subject of how many people are patient on getting answers.

@Robusto More attacking than that, but I could just be defensive here.

JSBangs

@GraceNote it looks like you a word there

Grace Note

@aedia I think they're picked from the same pool

@JSBangs Oh, no, not really

JSBangs

2:29 PM

@GraceNote gosh, that might be one of those ELU inside jokes

RegDwight

@GraceNote Sure, but if I go visit a site to get an awesome answer for free, I don't get to pester the community about not being fast enough. And if I don't understand that, I shouldn't be welcome on that site.

JSBangs

which i'm about to ruin by explaining

Robusto

@GraceNote — I bleeped out all the naughty letters. The subtext is just to show my exasperation.

aedia

@JSBangs Reddit did it first.

Jez

@RegDwight awwwwwwwweeeeesome

Grace Note

2:29 PM

@Robusto The word choice honestly isn't my concern, remotely. I'm more than used to that.

JSBangs

@aedia good to know. then i won't bother to explain

Grace Note

@RegDwight What people are entitled to, versus what people are more than happy to give heat for, are largely independent. You, me, we all know that they don't really get any such entitlement.

RegDwight

I know, I know.

Grace Note

@JSBangs I think this is less about missing words as just awkward phrasing and using "confidence" in an unusual manner.

Jez

@GraceNote They just know that their question (esp. on SO) is getting buried under 100s of others and by day 2, it will never get seen

aedia

2:32 PM

@JSBangs Looks like 4chan before them.

Grace Note

@Jez Quite my point.

JSBangs

@GraceNote true. anyway, this being ELU chat, we ain't big on grammar mistakes here

RegDwight

Huhuh, he said big, huhuh.

Grace Note

@JSBangs I think your issue was misspelling "word" initially.

Which is what threw me off

drm65

@Mr. Disappointment: Am I likely to get you on chat?

JSBangs

2:33 PM

@GraceNote yeah, and i thought i corrected that immediately, but then i forgot to hit "enter"

Grace Note

Ahha

Jez

@GraceNote Wasn't your point that they should wait a week or something?

Grace Note

@Jez No, no it wasn't

drm65

Can I ping someone from chat if the person's not already chatting?

Mana

I'm finding this difficult to follow. What are we even talking about at the moment?

Grace Note

2:34 PM

@drm65 Yes, you can. They will receive it when they return.

@Mana Roughly four different things right now

Jez

looks like you were implying that people who wanted to put a bounty on their question early on were 'impatient'

Mana

Lovely. I feel like I have some understanding of The Incomprehensible Room's title now.

drm65

@GraceNote I seem to remember being pinged in my inbox once, from chat

Grace Note

@drm65 Mr. Disappointment is out, however, so he can't so much get pinged. As in, not out of the chat room, but out, period.

I get pings in my inbox all the time for chat. My inbox is filled with rows upon rows of chat notifications.

@Jez I was more noting the volume of times we get this request for the explicit reason that people are impatient and really want an answer now.

Jez

that's not the same as being buried under 100s of other questions

drm65

2:36 PM

@GraceNote How do you know if someone is "out"?

z7sg

@GraceNote PING!

Jez

which is a legitimate observation

Grace Note

@Jez That's why they want the bounty, and it is impatience at waiting a couple days before they can "stand out".

@drm65 When it was announced earlier today that he was stepping out.

I'm not faulting the motivation behind wanting a bounty. I'm just noting that people who can't wait the 2 days to host a bounty are not unlike those who would not enjoy waiting 2 days for their question to get unlocked - the volume speaks that this will yield heat.

drm65

@GraceNote I didn't get that announcement

Grace Note

@drm65 You weren't in the room at the time.

Kit

2:39 PM

1

A: Where did the phrase "diddly-squat" come from?

The following is what I've found on the net about this phrase: The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang lists the original form as "Doodly-squat," dating from 1934. No clue given as to the origin. Doodle means, variously, a fool, a Union soldier, a penis, to cheat, and t...

OMF text wall.

RegDwight

@GraceNote I doubt that that would happen with language questions. If you've lived your entire life without knowing the generic word for clitoris and penis, then surely you can wait just one more day. This is not the same as "I need to fix this bug now, or I'm fired".

Jez

One Must Fall?

Grace Note

@RegDwight In your case, however, you are explicitly barring them from receiving answers.

aedia

@Jez Oh My Frigg?

Jez

I can't darn-dang-diddly darn-dang-diddly do it

RegDwight

2:41 PM

@GraceNote Well, two things. 1. I am only barring them from receing quick-and-dirty answers. Which could be considered a good thing. 2. I am actually not barring anyone at all, remember that this is just a hypothetical discussion that only exists because people just won't give us proper tools to address the situtation.

Kit

@aedia Oh my f*cking text wall.

Jez

that doesnt make sense

Grace Note

@RegDwight "Lock" prevents answers, period. For 2 days that question can't get answered.

Kit

And it's a joke.

Mana

@RegDwight I don't agree with your logic there. Part of what makes Stack Exchange awesome is our ability to answer questions effectively and quickly.

Jez

2:42 PM

awwwwweeeeesome dude

Kit

@Reg That answer I linked to, the majority of it is a joke, but the poster might not realize this.

Grace Note

I'm aware this is a hypothetical situation, but using that as reason that we can't pick out faults in a hypothetical plan is... well... confusing?

Mana

@Jez yeah maaaaaan, excelleeeeeeent

RegDwight

All I'm saying is that someone mentioned it and I said "hey, that had crossed my mind, too".

I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Jez

nobody expects... yadda yadda

Kit

2:44 PM

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

@Jez jinx!

Jez

:-)

Grace Note

If you don't want me to bounce ideas, then I'll stop. Just let me know.

RegDwight

Haha.

Grace Note

I'm sorry if I was too aggressive

aedia

@Kit Yeah, I really don't think we need to preserve that entire joke against link rot.

Kit

2:45 PM

@Reg What about the answer with the joke? Should I just edit it aggressively?

Mana

You weren't, don't worry.

RegDwight

Nah, I'm just not entirely sure you got the emphasis in my 2nd point right, @Grace.

Grace Note

@RegDwight I saw the italics and took note of them.

RegDwight

What I am saying is, if you are not given any proper tools and are forced to use a crappy workaround, you shouldn't get blame for the workaround being crappy.

Especially not if you had asked for proper tools over and over and over again.

Grace Note

But keep in mind, my process has always been "Find a way to get our needs accomplished while waiting for the proper tools, and do it proper"

Jez

2:47 PM

@RegDwight Jeff is just roleplaying the part of the PHB

RegDwight

@GraceNote Oh, my whole existence on this site has always amounted to little more than "waiting for the proper tools".

The search was broken from day one, and still is.

Mana

@RegDwight But...what if you don't exist??? THEN WHAT, HUH?

BLAM. Can't beat that logic.

RegDwight

I can only hunt down dupes by remembering every fricking question in existence.

Grace Note

Hrrm... I'm sorry, but I'm going to keep quiet for a bit now.

RegDwight

Hehe.

Fair enough.

I gotta work to do anyhow.

Jez

2:49 PM

hey do you guys have jobs?

damn, jinx

Grace Note

I think I'm becoming too antagonistic, without intending to do so.

Jez

it just struck me that the reason i chat in here is that i have bugger all work on. what's your excuse?

RegDwight

@Jez People dumping a metric ton of stinking crap on me and calling it "release notes" and insisting that they must be published.

Jez

no, that's the opposite

Mana

@Grace I don't think you were being too antagonistic. And, to be fair, discussions with opposing viewpoints tend to be pretty dramatic anyways.

RegDwight

2:52 PM

I don't think it was a dramatic discussion at all.

Kit

@Reg @Reg! @REG!

jumping up and down

Grace Note

@Mana Being of an opposed viewpoint is no excuse for me to be harsh or attacking at the opponent. It's a discussion, not a fight.

Mana

But you weren't being harsh, as far as I could tell.

RegDwight

@Kit Was ist denn?

Grace Note

@Mana Attacking is not merely in the actual act, but in the direction you approach from. You can determine this from the direction that your opposition defends against, since after all, no one likes to take a sword to the rib nevermind to the gut.

Kit

2:54 PM

@RegDwight Should I edit the joke out of this answer?

Grace Note

This is especially the case in Ys, because that's, y'know, how it all works.

Mana

Heh.

Well, thanks for the advice. I'll keep that in mind the next time I engage in verbal jousting.

RegDwight

@Kit I think that quote needs trimming anyhow. I'm not sure what Yahoo Answers' license looks like, but this is no longer fair use methinks.

Mana

Verbal jousting with swords. :x So...not jousting I guess.

Grace Note

@Mana Just remember that there is a lot of difference between a head-on assault, a side jab, and a backstab. There's a big difference.

Kit

2:57 PM

@RegDwight OK. I'll chop it. But should I leave the link and alter the text to make it clear it's a joke?

Grace Note

@Kit Wait, is the answer trying to pass off the joke as not a joke?

Kit

And if so, should I indicate that I'm the one who did it and not Mehper?

@GraceNote I think the poster doesn't know it's a joke.

RegDwight

Mar 13 at 15:25, by Robusto

You know, I'm not sure how we got to this kind of swordplay from that kind of swordplay.

Grace Note

@Kit Ah. That's a complication.

Mana

@Kit Remember, when in doubt, don't guess; ask.

Grace Note

2:58 PM

(Though... how you get past the first paragraph without realizing it is beyond me. Has anyone asked?)

Kit

@Mana It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Mana

@Kit Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

Kit

@GraceNote If he does know it's a joke, he needs to be downvoted into oblivion.

RegDwight

Frankly, I think quoting Yahoo Answers should be the very last resort, seeing how SE set out to become everything Yahoo Answers isn't.

Kit

Hence my hesitation.

Grace Note

3:00 PM

@Kit Or really just have the joke cut out.

Kit

@RegDwight You mean like good, informative, and accurate?

Mana

@Kit Is the first of those separate from the others?

RegDwight

Yahoo, answers. Pick one.

Mana

sips tea

Jez

@RegDwight Come on, though. I think we'd all be proud if we reached a level such as this:

somethingawful.com/flash/shmorky/babby.swf

JSBangs

3:04 PM

0

Q: Mods should be able to suppress questions from the Multicollider

This came up over in EL&U chat, but since it affects the whole network I'm bringing it up here. It sometimes happen that a question comes up which is clearly on-topic for the site in question, but which is likely to wind up on the multicollider and attract a lot of attention for bad reasons....

discussion feature-request stackexchange stackexchange-button

Kit

@Jez LOL

Mana

So...another dupe of RegDwight's?

oh

Kit

1

A: Where did the phrase "diddly-squat" come from?

The following is what I've found on the net about this phrase: The Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang lists the original form as "Doodly-squat," dating from 1934. No clue given as to the origin. Doodle means, variously, a fool, a Union soldier, a penis, to cheat, and t...

Mana

wait this is on meta.SO

Kit

How's this edit? OK?

Grace Note

3:06 PM

@Mana Aye, 'tis

Mana

@Grace Yes.

Grace Note

@Kit I think noting it as an Editorial Note helps

RegDwight

@Kit I think so, yes.

Kit

@GraceNote I figured it would be explanatory to the poster that way, without being offensive.

Also:

0

Q: "above examples" are below

I found often in technical documentation sentences like "All of the above examples" "As in the above example" etc. but the actual examples are after the sentence, that is "below" in the page. :) I'd like to be sure this usage is really correct and if someone knows the origin of it.

idioms adverbs

WTF is this?

Mana

@Kit Wait, wait wait wait. If you want to explain it to the poster put it in your edit note or a comment. Don't put it in the answer itself.

The main people we care about are the people who find the question and then look at the answer. The editorial note's just going to confuse them.

RegDwight

3:08 PM

@Kit I like the origin part.

Surely it's exceptionally well documented.

Kit

@RegDwight Well, he does have an example...

...like "All of the above examples" "As in the above example" etc.

Grace Note

It merely reminds me of a Meta post on using "above/below answers"

Kit

@Mana First and foremost, the joke had to go. The editorial note was for clarification; the poster didn't know the link was a joke, so I didn't want to edit his answer to have him say that it was a joke.

Mana

Why don't you leave a comment saying it's a joke, then, and put the rest of your editorial note into your edit reason?

z7sg

@Ping

Kit

3:12 PM

@Mana I could have done, but then I have to rely on people reading my comment to know the link is a joke.

Mana

hmm

yeah that makes sense. Sorry.

Kit

@Mana It's tricky because I don't generally make such invasive edits.

But it needed doing.

Besides, I am competing with @Matt for a badge.

Grace Note

Copy Editor?

Mana

@GraceNote You're bach!

oh

wait you just posted something up there, heh

Kit

@Mana She's Rachmaninoff!

RegDwight

3:17 PM

Okay party people, I gotta run. Laterz.

Grace Note

I'd know a lot more composers' names if I was 10 years younger.

Enjoy, Dwig!

Mana

Did you know that Dwig spelled backwards is Giwd?

nods head slowly

z7sg

Hello @Mana @GraceNote @drm65 @Kit @JSBangs @Jez @aedia @Robusto @MrHen @RebeccaChernoff @Martha @waiwai933 @FallenAngelEyes @Dori

:)

aedia

Hello @z7sg!

Grace Note

@z7sg In trying to pronounce your name, the closest I can come is calling you "Zven" from now on.

Or, Zvensg, if I wanted to go the whole 6 yards

z7sg

3:23 PM

I'm sorry for my unpronounceable name. Ah Zvensg i like that!

Mana

Zvensig.

Nice.

Grace Note

Zvensg it is!

z7sg

I'll drink to that (just a strong coffee btw)

Grace Note

I appear to have fully quaffed my beverage and no longer possess anything toast-worthy

z7sg

Is there a fountain nearby?

If there is you can probably hear the sound of running water.

Grace Note

3:26 PM

@z7sg There's a fridge up and down from here, but taking a drink break half an hour before lunch seems unsporting.

z7sg

Can you travel up/down from your desk? If you can, you work in a much cooler office building than I do.

I can only exit to the N, E or W.

Grace Note

@z7sg Actually, it's pretty balmy. The construction work being done nextdoor doesn't really help.

z7sg

The window to the South is locked shut.

aedia

@z7sg Shush. Now I'm going to have to pee.

z7sg

Just put your hoof in a cup and you won't need to go anymore.

Grace Note

3:33 PM

Hm... if there's anyone that I'd know who would probably know about a mixture of tech and neuro, it'd be you, @jcole. Mind popping into the other room? ♪

jcolebrand

?

Mr. Disappointment

Y'all talk too much, I'm not even trying to catch up.

jcolebrand

/afk, brb

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment drm was looking for you

That's... really the important highlight of your absence. Note that drm has vanished though.

Mr. Disappointment

Oh dear. I can guess why.

Mitja

3:35 PM

How much is "fractionally easier"? A lot easier or a little easier?

z7sg

@Mitja A little.

Mr. Disappointment

@GraceNote Thanks for the heads up, though.

Mitja

@z7sg thanks. It makes logical sense then. Had to ask because sometimes English isn't logical to me :)

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment 'Tis what I do ♪

aedia

@Mitja "Just a fraction" easier. See 5th meaning here: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fraction#English

Mr. Disappointment

3:36 PM

He has deleted a recent answer, but my comments weren't meant to sway him in that direction.

Grace Note

@aedia 1st meaning actually kinda provides the leaning as well, too. That it surpasses the mathematical meaning says a lot about why the phrase is the way it is.

z7sg

@Mitja Yes I can understand why you weren't totally certain. :)

Kit

@GraceNote Hey! I know tech and neuro!

Grace Note

@Kit I thought you got out of that though, otherwise I'd've come knocking at your ping.

But maybe you can field it anyway.

Kit

@GraceNote Well, it's been a while, but I might still be able to help.

Mana

3:39 PM

wheeeee, tech question are go

Grace Note

In the physical world, when a person is confronted with hallucinations or other horrors, that person will usually speak and act in a fashion that shows how real these apparitions are to them. Usually not of a strong enough mind as a result, so to speak.

z7sg

@GraceNote The mathematical sense is the source of the word in English: etymonline.com/index.php?search=fraction&searchmode=none

Grace Note

@z7sg It's the source, but no longer the primary meaning

I'm wondering have their been studies about these kind of reactions... noted across a keyboard in the recent generation?

z7sg

@GraceNote It's not in that expression but to a person who has maths deeply ingrained in their mind I think that's what comes first.

aedia

Yeah, it's interesting that it's small fractions we think of first. "It got just a fraction easier"... unlikely you'd think I meant it got 3/2 easier.

Grace Note

3:41 PM

@z7sg Which is where the confusion would stem from, and I can't blame anyone for that. Fractions are, after all, what they are.

Kit

@GraceNote You mean studies about the manifestations of hallucinations or delusions related to the Internet?

Grace Note

I'm one of the people who always professes the point that net communication is just as much a part of the real world as regular speech, but the thing is, typing is a much more complex activity than talking is.

@Kit More, the conveyence of experiencing these physically, but conveyed across the Internet as a medium.

Mana

Like...................a simulation?

Kit

@GraceNote Well, don't underestimate how complex talking is...I see, so you mean typing as an expression of psychosis.

aedia

Goedemorgen @Cerberus!

Grace Note

3:44 PM

Years ago, I would instantly pass off any such act as clear deception. There's just too much involved in typing a sentence (especially a coherent one, and if you throw in emoted actions) to reasonably believe that someone is actually experiencing the delusions that they are expressing in their typing.

Mana

Oh.

Kit

@GraceNote Oh, I disagree. Delusional states are not that simple.

Cerberus

@aedia Môge!

Grace Note

But I'm curious if, in the now age, where people have gotten so comfortable with technological communication (especially those who are more comfortable at a keyboard than in spoken verse), if they actually can sincerely express it across this medium now.

Cerberus

@GraceNote You underestimate people's gullibility!

Grace Note

3:46 PM

@Kit Delusional states are not that simple, so maybe it's my own not-having-this-kind-of-experience perception that purports this, but I question the reaction to a physical apparition right in your face being "Type to my friend about it for 30 minutes"

A scary apparition, specifically.

Kit

@GraceNote Yes, I see your point.

I don't know of any studies.

Mana

Oh maaaaan, I would totally flip out if that happened.

Kit

I suppose it might be possible that the person having the delusion might believe that by typing and only by typing, they are holding the apparition at bay.

Mana

The only typing that would happen would probably be me rolling my head across the keyboard.

Kit

More likely a hallucination, though.

Grace Note

3:47 PM

@Kit That sounds plausible

Kit

And plenty of people in hallucinogenic states write things down. In Go Ask Alice, I remember that she wrote about the devil sitting in the corner of her room.

Cerberus

Just as people are advised to talk into their cell phone when they feel threatened in a particularly unsafe neighborhood at night?

Kit

@Cerberus Maybe, yes.

If you are experiencing psychosis, hearing your own voice can be very reassuring.

Grace Note

@Cerberus There's an async between the medium of communication and the actual usage of it in that scenario. A cellphone is handy because even if you drop it, your shouting can still get through.

@Kit That is actually a very good point. I never thought about that.

Cerberus

@GraceNote That, too, and you can scream as someone comes too close. What is an "asynch"?

Kit

3:51 PM

Writing is often a means of keeping control mentally. You can go back and read that fleeting thought you had two minutes ago.

Cerberus

Is that like an alot?

aedia

@Kit Drunk texting, drunk dialing, drunk emailing also show that people in altered states use familiar communication media.

Kit

It also helps give you an anchor.

Cerberus

@aedia I like going to this chat room when I come home tipsy at 4 am.

Grace Note

@Cerberus Hahahaha, no. I apparently had a brain disconnect when trying to express something that is disconnected and apparently settled on "asynchronous"

Cerberus

3:52 PM

@GraceNote OK, I will henceforth read that as "disconnectedness". Proceed.

Grace Note

@Kit Is that why writing things down helps a lot more than both mentally repeating things and vocally repeating things (in some cases, at least)?

Kit

@GraceNote Well, it is more effective for some people, probably because it requires more cognitive resources to commit something in writing than it does to repeat it. You can repeat without thinking about something, but it's much harder to write without thinking about what you are writing.

Grace Note

Ahha

Martha

@GraceNote Doesn't that have more to do with the different types of learning? I.e. if you hear something, it's auditory learning, and if you repeat it out loud, it's still auditory learning, but if you write it down, it's now visual learning. Or something.

Grace Note

@Martha Could be.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…