English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

1:00 PM

@MrDisappointment Are you sure that is a good idea?

Jez

@GraceNote seems to know

Grace Note

@Cerberus This is kinda why I showed up, because I don't like that I see so many people affected to this degree.

user19161

@GraceNote Maybe we are not affected as much as we think we may be.

Mr. Disappointment

@Cerberus Unless you have a thought that I don't: Jeff has pretty much solidified in my brain that mediocre input from someone who simply knows English is just as bad as someone wishing to know English asking a bad / easy / 'inappropriate' question.

Alain Pannetier

@GraceNote But then why did all previous jokes go through unhampered, and now we have a problem with jokes as if this one was the first one...

Cerberus

1:01 PM

@MrDisappointment I was ponder the following proposition. The top 30ish users of ELU move their best answers to a new, independent site, and delete all of those answers on ELU.

Grace Note

@AlainPannetier It was an element of quality, not content. Jeff has been just as spontaneous for many other things on other sites.

Rhodri

@Jez: sorry, I should have screen-shotted it at the time, but I didn't think. Despite my net-longevity, I'm very rarely involved in dramas like this.

user19161

@AlainPannetier I think it's just rashness on some people's part.

Jez

@Rhodri can you remember?

Grace Note

@JasperLoy People are certainly affected just as strongly as they believe themselves to be. I think there's something else that is "not as much as thought to be", but that's... elsewise to say, so to speak.

Alain Pannetier

1:03 PM

@GraceNote Quality is invoked by everybody but honestly there was nothing wrong with the quality of the Lent joke and psmears answer was awesome.

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment Are you on any of our other websites?

Mr. Disappointment

@Cerberus Hmmm. That's a thought.

@GraceNote Indeed.

user19161

@GraceNote Astronomy mod for Mr Dis

Mr. Disappointment

I'm an avid fan of SE, I bought a freakin' t-shirt.

Alain Pannetier

@Cerberus Count me in...

Grace Note

1:03 PM

@AlainPannetier Jeff saw it differently. I'll take it on my shoulders to say that I am beyond confident that this has absolutely nothing to do with faith.

Cerberus

@AlainPannetier Agreed.

Rhodri

@Jez The heart of it was dismissing Kos's demonstration of how analysing the joke was linguistically interesting as, and I quote, a "flight of fancy".

Alain Pannetier

@Cerberus, my email is in my profile.

Mr. Disappointment

Which infuriates me all the more when I'm essentially a customer of this company, and which company treats their clients in the way that has unfolded this last week? Without ending up in a cout of law?

Cerberus

@MrDisappointment Aww... that is heart-breaking.

Jez

1:04 PM

@MrDisappointment Apple?

Cerberus

@Rhodri Yes! This!

Grace Note

@Alain On Gaming, Jeff jumped onto a particular class of bad questions when a fairly mediocre one showed up to make waves, and completely ignored the far worse class of questions that the site had been arguing about for months.

Cerberus

@AlainPannetier OK thanks for your enthusiasm! Not sure it would be practicable, or whether people would be willing, or whether it wouldn't be just an act of destruction out of spite...

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment Other than Astronomy, I'm curious.

Rhodri

@GraceNote You aren't convincing me to hang around, you know :-)

Cerberus

1:06 PM

@MrDisappointment They haven given us all this for free.

Mr. Disappointment

@GraceNote stackexchange.com/users/…

Grace Note

@Rhodri You convinced me to stop trying on you because you're fervent about wanting an apology. I mean, I'd rather you not leave, but I don't think there's much I can do on that end.

user19161

@GraceNote I see your skills of checking others out are not very good. :)

Grace Note

@JasperLoy I'm sorry that I am asking people to please provide the information rather than looking it up.

Mr. Disappointment

@Cerberus To an extent, I have to say fair enough. However, Google give us searching for free - does that stop them being as careful as possible (yes, I know they push boundaries at times) concerning 'clients'? Rarely do they just pull the rug out from under and start blazing aspersions.

user19161

1:07 PM

Also we must all remember that without Jeff there is no SE to begin with and I can't chat with you lovely people.

Cerberus

@GraceNote This matches my experience. I personally find many other questions, such as the single-word requests, fairly uninteresting; but if we kept only the interesting questions, we'd never make the quota required by SE as to the number of questions, answers, etc.

Jez

@Cerberus If you want me to host it using something like Shapado, I will. let me know.

Rhodri

@GraceNote Don't be. This way you find out more.

user19161

@Jez What is Shapado?

Jez

Opensource software similar to StackOverflow

Mr. Disappointment

1:09 PM

@GraceNote I'm sorry, do you actually want me to list my participation?

user19161

@Rhodri Good observation!

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment Not anymore. I've already looked it up.

Cerberus

@MrDisappointment Google enrages me on a regular basis, true. But... I still can't see I am wronged: I am using their free stuff...

@Jez Oh, cool! That will be interesting. We being one of their most well viewed sites, SE would not like this much.

trg787

Guys, I have a big trouble : only 2 sigarretes in my house

user19161

@trg787 Cigarettes.

Cerberus

1:10 PM

@GraceNote Thanks for your constructive input in any case. I appreciate it.

Mr. Disappointment

@Cerberus I agree, and it's on a purely business level that I take the above mentioned stance; I don't feel personally abused, or anything.

Cerberus

BRB.

Matt Ellen

@Cerberus It seems free to use, but Google is getting something from you when yu use their stuff.

Grace Note

The main thing I wanted to see, @MrDisappointment, is if you were in one of the sites like Stack Overflow specifically, which deals exactly with people who are learning the subject matter in addition to those who are experts.

Matt Ellen

Don't forget that they are a business, so nothing they do is purely altruistic

user19161

1:11 PM

@GraceNote Even experts is not well-defined.

Grace Note

So I hope it's understood that I don't mean any offense or anything when I say it's utter hogwash to think that Jeff's intent is to transform this place entirely into nothing but elitists and the experts of the experts.

Matt Ellen

You are a customer, and you are entitled to being treated fairly

user19161

Yes, moderation in all things is the way to make the world better.

Jez

actually i think I'd rather code a SE clone from scratch. Shapado uses Ruby. euck.

Mr. Disappointment

@GraceNote I'm not sure I heard you say such, but I would say that this isn't SO, and it's kind of also clear that different rules apply - maybe I'm missing what you're getting at?

Cerberus

1:13 PM

@GraceNote I believe you, if only because he disagrees with people who actually have degrees in linguistics and others with more relevant academic experience than he has.

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment I don't think this is Stack Overflow, but I think the relationship with "users learning English/users who are new to English" is very similar to the relationship Stack Overflow has with "users learning programmings/users who are new to code"

Cerberus

Oh I have to go now. I'll try to be back in an hour or so. Bye!

Grace Note

Which is that they are quite acceptable.

user19161

@Cerberus See you!

Grace Note

Later, @Cerberus

user19161

1:14 PM

@GraceNote I just discovered Cerberus is 20s and not 40s.

Grace Note

@JasperLoy That is entirely non-sequitur, but yes, apparently 28.

user19161

@GraceNote Yes I should know better than you, we were playing the guessing game earlier on,

user19161

@Jez Your French proposal is making progress I am glad.

Grace Note

The only significant "new barrier" on the majority of sites isn't "You have to at least know X". People keep trying to propose such, especially for Stack Overflow, but those get shut down. The only significant "new barrier" is that we ask for a modicum of effort. I can't say that English has a problem with it, because I don't see enough and I'm not brazen enough to make the mistake that Jeff did.

Mr. Disappointment

@GraceNote I thought so too, though that's not what I was mainly contributing to (and I haven't even contributed an awful lot anyway other than in presence); it seems, though I can't find the post now, that that isn't the case, according to Jeff.

Jez

1:16 PM

@JasperLoy :-) slow progress, maybe 1/day

user19161

@Jez Are you French or native French speaker?

Jez

nope

Mr. Disappointment

He clearly stated this isn't an ESL site, or, at least, was enraged that it seems to be and from now on it musn't be.

Grace Note

@MrDisappointment In the same vein that we're not an English translation site, correct?

user19161

@GraceNote But the other language sites allow translation.

Grace Note

1:18 PM

Stack Overflow isn't a rent-a-coder site, it's not a place that's intended for learning programming, but a modicum of effort allows you to roughly handle the same scenario.

Jez

@MrDisappointment that's dumb. that's like saying the only questions that may be asked on StackOverflow are for complex answers that very few people know.

user19161

We all say dumb things now and then.

trg787

Really an incredabile thing: all Russian noble communicated only over French..... It's really amazing

Mr. Disappointment

Now, learning English and ESL could be divided into separate categories depending on how clever you are and and confusing you can be, but I'd say that 2 to 3 year old native British or Americans (or from other natively English speaking parts of the world) won't be heading here for lessons, hence, 'learning' is mostly ESL.

user19161

@trg787 Incredible, just helping with your Eng. :)

Grace Note

1:20 PM

@MrDisappointment I think this stems from a dissociation between what you are considering the practice of ESL versus what Jeff is trying to discourage in saying this is not meant to be an ESL site.

user19161

Do you think we should allow translation questions on EL?

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy I do not think translation should be on topic

Grace Note

7

A: Should we allow 'semi-translation' questions?

I don't think we ought to expand our scope into this slippery slope. The majority of questions that could be asked as one-sided translation requests are likely to be "too localized": useful only to the one person who asked it.* More importantly, I don't think we need to expand scope this way, be...

Matt Ellen

Not a straight translation anyway

Rhodri

What Jeff said, in the jokes meta-question: "@kos that's just basic ESL "explain the meaning of these words to me" stuff. Remember this site is supposed to be for experts so the standard here is high -- if it is simply ESL or explaining pop culture references that is insufficient. – Jeff Atwood♦ Jul 10 at 17:24"

Matt Ellen

1:21 PM

there are shades of grey

user19161

@MattEllen So what's the diff between this and the other lang sites which allow translation?

Mr. Disappointment

@Jez Right, which is where the contradiction comes. But it's not really a contradiction, what it boils down to is that there is no solid 'yes' for that question, or 'no' for that one: it is absolutely subjective and based on whim (and maybe lack of coffee) on any given morning.

Grace Note

I choose to continue to read deeper into it than as written, but still acknowledge that Jeff is as rough as ever in his comment.

user19161

@MrDisappointment Or maybe too much coffee.

Matt Ellen

I've not used those sites, so I can't say for sure.
I think the difference is that most of the SE network is English speaking, if not natively, then at a high level.

Mr. Disappointment

1:23 PM

@JasperLoy You never know!

user19161

@MattEllen You are right.

trg787

@Jasper Loy, don't know what you mean..... but all Russia Spoke only French...... They did not speak Russian - > only French

Mr. Disappointment

Jul 13 at 18:05, by Mr. Disappointment

I signed up for the German language and usage site. I couldn't keep up, I didn't make my commitment - I'd bet, for Germans (or any more fluent speaker), some of those questions are so tremendously trivial. Would be in a German dictionary, et cetera.

Grace Note

Jeff's concern does not appear to be about "People are using the site to learn English" type ESL, but "People are using the site to ask about any English word/phrase they run into" type ESL.

user19161

@trg787 I was just trying to let you know the correct spelling! :)

user19161

1:25 PM

I think everything will be fine very soon, if not already.

Mr. Disappointment

Anyway, got to run and do some work, I suppose.

user19161

@MrDisappointment Bye.

Grace Note

Later, @MrDisappointment. I hope I can eventually convince you to contribute again ♪

trg787

Some ppl could't speak even with Parisien accent

Jez

@MrDisappointment I disagree with the concept that a lot of simple questions 'drives experts away'.

user19161

1:26 PM

@GraceNote You should contribute too, from Once Great you will become Great Again.

Mr. Disappointment

Catch you all later. And, @GraceNote, just to note that I've been pretty passive throughout this whole thing, and still am being to an extent - it usually takes a little bit of pressure before I just start letting my opinions run wild on the web; I do hope we can get some steady ground formed for this community, not for me but for those who have been here longer and / or put much more effort in than I, and get more out of it, too.

user19161

@Jez Sometimes simple questions are complex, and complex questions are simple really.

Grace Note

@Jez I will not make a statement as to how much of a degree it happens, but there are quite many cases that people who have a lot of experience will be frustrated about answering banal questions time after time.

user19161

@GraceNote Perhaps you can leave those for the others to answer then. :)

Mr. Disappointment

@Jez To be honest, your comments are a little vague and I've been having trouble discerning whether you find me "dumb", "disagree" with me and so on, or otherwise.

Grace Note

1:28 PM

@JasperLoy I do contribute. However, my skill is in esoteric vocabulary, not in linguistic expertise, which presents a vast expanse of questions that I do not generally possess the capability to answer all that often on English.

user19161

@GraceNote I see, I remember you gained your vocab from playing games.

Jez

@GraceNote It's less boring than having nothing to answer, which happens pretty quickly when you aggressively kill off questions. Check out philosophy.se.

Grace Note

@JasperLoy This is usually done by people leaving the site, when they're truly fed up rather than meh about it.

Mr. Disappointment

Anyway, ya, lunch then work: bye for now, folks.

Grace Note

@Jez Depending on the volume, it can come across as having nothing to answer. Our first top user on Gaming was very much going to leave if we did not curtail the game recommendation problem, because of its potential to overshadow all the real content that requires real effort to address.

Jez

1:31 PM

hahahaha

'real' content, like 10001 Minecraft FAQ questions

give me game recommendations

Grace Note

When your contributions take half an hour or longer to write up an extreme answer that touches all bases, that you pour your life into, on a difficult question, that's rewarding. When people can get the same reward for expending less than any effort, in far less time, and when this can happen with greater frequency, it puts into question how much your contributions are truly appreciated.

@JasperLoy I gained some of it from that, yes. It's why I happen to know a lot of random words, but I do like to look up exotic words for fun as well.

Rhodri

Jun 29 at 12:59, by Robusto

"Praises of the unworthy are felt by ardent minds as robberies of the deserving." — Coleridge

user19161

@GraceNote On a side note, we just need to think in terms of contribution in our hearts, and not look so much at rep points.

Jez

@GraceNote but the idea is that they don't get the same reward. a mediocre question/answer get few or no upvotes.

@GraceNote you seem to be implying that the fundamentals of the SE system are broken

Grace Note

@Jez That's only in an ideal world.

trg787

1:34 PM

It's an amazing phenjnem: all country spoke on foreing language.... In fact they did not know Russian, only French..... Open the 1st page of "War and Peace" by Tolstoy.... cites of French....

user19161

As observed by some, often the most upvoted answers and questions are mediocre ones.

Jez

example?

Rhodri

@Jez The prosecution would like to present 3I as a counter-example.

z7sg

@Jez That's not true at all. A simple, easy answer that anyone can understand will get upvotes for being correct. But a thoughtful and challenging answer will get few upvotes.

Grace Note

Votes only draw where attention is cast. That's a fact, because a vote represents a person who has seen it.

Jez

1:35 PM

@Rhodri 3I gets rep because of volume, not a few big answers. I'd say he's putting in a significant amount of time.

Rhodri

@Jez Having looked at his answers, and their edit trails, I wouldn't say that at all.

Jez

generally if people chime in with a more thorough answer than 3I's, they get modded up more

Grace Note

To that end, a substantial and excellent answer is more likely to get more votes than a subpar or mediocre answer, there is no doubt about it. But unless it gets the publicity, it will not be able to compete with a simple answer that satisfies being "correct".

user19161

Votes are more an indication of agreement, or attraction.

Jez

@GraceNote now you've moved onto answers, which is a different problem. that isn't an argument about not allowing relatively simple questions.

Matt Ellen

1:37 PM

@Jez not from here but programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/56965/…

Grace Note

@Jez I've been on about answerers since I began.

z7sg

@Jez It's exactly the same problem with answers as questions.

Jez

@MattEllen pfft. Programmers is a dumb idea from the start, defined to be about silly stuff.

programmers, in fact, was created to handle the scurf of SE that they got sick of seeing on SE.

Matt Ellen

@Jez I like to believe it could be so much more than it is, but I haven't been for a while

Grace Note

@Jez I don't think it's broken, but I do admit that with introducing Gaming's issue it was kinda conflating things because the issues we face with regards to expertise are a completely different beast than what is implied here.

@Jez That was originally what people (not Stack Exchange, as it were) proposed it as. That isn't how it eventually grew up.

z7sg

1:39 PM

Programmers is a horrible place. I have no idea how they decide what is on or off topic, and a lot of the questions are basically "I hate my job what shall I do?"

Matt Ellen

@Jez essentially people vote for what makes them feel good, and for the majority of people, that's the easy answer

user19161

@matt How is your book reading coming along?

Jez

@z7sg Not if I'm interpreting @GraceNote correctly. The point is presumably that a good answer takes a long time to write and a short 'correct' answer may be voted up before your long answer is posted, at which point yours is at the bottom and doesn't get noticed. That doesn't apply to questions, as you have however long you want to write your long question.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy I read a chapter of Pragmatic Programmer while I was chatting last night :)

Grace Note

@Jez No, that's not at all what I'm on about, really.

Speaking from my own experience, being "That long answer that comes in second", you do not hold "bottom place" for that long before you start to more than shine over the original, shorter answer.

Matt Ellen

1:40 PM

@z7sg I hate those questions. I want to be able to talk about the essence of being a programmer and that sort of thing

user19161

There is one problem which pops up very often: people don't know how the comment system works. It happens again and again and again...

user19161

At least it's included in the FAQ now though.

Grace Note

I keep telling people to forget about the so called "Fastest Gun In The West", which is what you're illustrating about answers, because when it boils down to it, on the same page you can trump speed with quality easily.

user19161

True, but on some days the page moves really fast...

Jez

8

Q: Is there an alternative to bastard injection?

I most commonly am tempted to use "bastard injection" in a few cases. When I have a "proper" dependency-injection constructor: public class ThingMaker { ... public ThingMaker(IThingSource source){ _source = source; } But then, for classes I am intending as public APIs (cla...

Grace Note

1:44 PM

@JasperLoy There are only 23 live questions on English with even 15 answers, and the page limit is 30, so I don't think that's an issue.

Jez

oops... slipped through the censorship net ;-)

Matt Ellen

I hope that's on the super collider

Grace Note

@MattEllen It'll take a while if it doesn't get more views and votes.

user19161

There were some issues raised about offensive stuff appearing on the collider.

Matt Ellen

ah well. I guess it'll be censored by then.

Grace Note

1:46 PM

That said, with a title like that, people are going to upvote it like crazy and it probably will show up on the collider if none of us do anything about it.

Jez

upvotes

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote the spiteful imp in me is remaining here and not editing the title...

user19161

A bustard is a bird...

Grace Note

@JasperLoy You thinking of a buzzard?

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote no

a bustard is a bird

Grace Note

1:47 PM

Hah, I see. So both are birds.

user19161

@GraceNote No a bustard, check the dick, oops the dict.

Rhodri

Bustard

Bustards, including floricans and korhaans, are large terrestrial birds mainly associated with dry open country and steppes in the Old World. They make up the family Otididae (formerly known as Otidae). Bustards are all fairly large and two species, the Kori Bustard and the Great Bustards are frequently cited as the world's heaviest flying birds, since both may exceed 20 kg (44 lbs). The smallest species is the Little Brown Bustard, which is about 40 cm (16 in) and 600 grams (1.3 lbs) on average. In all bustards, males are substantially larger than females, often about 30% longer and twic...

Grace Note

I was a fan of jacanas and egrets at one time, but I was never on top of avians in the same way I'm fond of fungi.

Kit

Did you notice that the EL&U questions on the multicollider are not about breasts and poop today? Maybe we should mention it to Jeff every day that breasts and poop are not on the multicollider, since it is apparently so remarkable.

2

Grace Note

@MattEllen I've thrown it at people who have a vested interest.

Jez

1:48 PM

@Kit nah, he'll just use that to justify the idea that it should never be there

Rhodri

@GraceNote For a moment I thought that was a response to Kit :-)

user19161

@Kit I think breasts and poop are beautiful...

2

Kit

Or maybe we should just collect the EL&U multicollider questions over a week and see how many are "objectionable."

Grace Note

@Rhodri I'm great at saying things I'll be embarrassed about in the future, but I don't walk into them that easily.

Kit

@JasperLoy Ick. Too much information.

Grace Note

1:50 PM

Yay! The English question I pointed out got closed ♪

Question: This "3I" I keep hearing about, that "Third Idiot"?

Kit

@GraceNote Yes.

@GraceNote Which?

Grace Note

@Kit Esto.

user19161

@GraceNote 3i=hb.

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Cute. Respond to an inquiry about an acronym with... an acronym that I don't know (but I assume is "Ham and Bacon" since I see that appears to be the user's current display name)

Kit

@GraceNote Good spot!

Jez

1:53 PM

best gravatar ever

Grace Note

@Kit Thank you.

user19161

@Jez Who?

Jez

H&B

user19161

@Jez Looks more fake than Reg's viscacha or whatever you call it.

Kit

Let me interrupt a minute to announce that my friends have a new baby boy!

I just got the word. Hooray!

user19161

1:55 PM

@Kit My friend too!

Rhodri

Excellent! Break out the champaigne

Grace Note

@Kit If your friend doesn't mind word from strangers, convey my congratulations!

@JasperLoy Likewise to the earlier point.

I can't repeat the announcement because all of my friends have been busy getting married over the past 3 months, so I think it'd be mighty awkward if we heard baby news now.

user19161

@GraceNote Haha..

RegDwight

@JasperLoy You're a fake whatever you call it.

user19161

@RegDwight Really, my friend had a baby a couple of days ago!

Matt Ellen

1:58 PM

excellent news, @Kit

RegDwight

@MattEllen it's either "excellent news" or "excellents new". You have to make the infinitive subject and the future case agree.

user19161

This is his second baby, and it seemed that both were accidents

Kit

@JasperLoy Pretty big accident if he's had two babies. :-)

Grace Note

Hm... at least this one got edited.

user19161

@Kit Exactly, you know...sometimes you can't control.

Rhodri

2:00 PM

@Kit Ow! THWACK!

Grace Note

@Kit Going from what I've heard elsewhere, the number of people who make a second mistake of this fashion is statistically improbable.

Matt Ellen

@RegDwight I like the little disagreements, they bring spice to my life

RegDwight

@GraceNote Can you call it a mistake, then?

Kit

@Rhodri Gold star for getting the joke. But who gave you the thwacker?

Grace Note

@RegDwight I believe in good faith.

user19161

2:01 PM

Well, accident should be interpreted neutrally here, not negatively.

Rhodri

@Kit For this, I claim thwacking priviledges. I've read far too much mpreg.

RegDwight

Jul 1 at 15:55, by RegDwight

"I believe in the existence of angels."

user19161

@Rhodri Wrong spelling.

Kit

@JasperLoy "Unplanned" according to the current nomenclature.

Rhodri

@JasperLoy One of my standard misspellings. I don't know where I learned it from, but I do it every time.

user19161

2:02 PM

@Kit Which is what he said but I prefer to rewrite it for him.

user19161

@Rhodri That's why I'm here to help you with your spelling!

Matt Ellen

@Rhodri I have those. Especially remeber

Grace Note

@Rhodri There's totally a ledge joke waiting to be done, but I'd get thwacked.

user19161

@MattEllen That's more like a typo.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy so it's spelt correctly if it's a typo?

user19161

2:07 PM

@MattEllen No, but I'm surprised you actually misspell that, it's not a common error.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy I know. I've tried to figure out why I do it

Grace Note

@MattEllen Do you skip the M when speaking it aloud?

Matt Ellen

I think it is due to habituation. There are so many words spelt ...e_e...

user19161

@MattEllen Unless of course, you pronounce it wrong.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote no

only when typing

Grace Note

2:08 PM

Also, found a nicer question, nicely.

@MattEllen Hm... I see.

Rhodri

@Kit: I have a suspicion the rest of the room still haven't got the joke. Let's sneak off quietly before they do :-)

Grace Note

@Rhodri I got it before you mentioned mpreg, but I was sidetracked.

Matt Ellen

so I'm expecting the letter after the second e to be different to the one preceding it

RegDwight

I am tempted to close this for so many reasons that I don't know which to pick:

1

Q: The "in" prefix

This is something I have been curious about but up until now I had no idea where to find the answer. Some words such as inoperable use the prefix 'in' for "opposite of". While at the same time, there are words such as ingenious and inspite where 'in' reinstates the base of the word (rather than ...

prefixes

Matt Ellen

so I drop the second m

Grace Note

2:10 PM

@MattEllen There are many who have issues typing things that they don't have with speech, as well as vice versa. Personally, I always mispronounce "napkin" but I do not spell it incorrectly.

Rhodri

@GraceNote So my cunning plan worked then.

Grace Note

@Rhodri If your plan was to incite research, it didn't work on me.

user19161

I don't get the joke, what joke?

Rhodri

::whistles innocently::

Grace Note

@RegDwight False premise seems to be the big one. But... I mean, what kind of close reason is there for that?

RegDwight

2:12 PM

Complex question? NARQ.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote general reference?

Grace Note

@MattEllen Doesn't really ring that tone to me.

RegDwight

It's dupish, genrefish, and complexish.

@GraceNote I have provided three links.

Matt Ellen

I mean, who hasn't watched the hotforwords vidoes welbog on it?

Kit

Why did drm65 answer with a comment?

Naughty!

Grace Note

2:13 PM

@MattEllen I think you don't mean Welbog there.

Matt Ellen

I don't, but I liked it

RegDwight

@Kit That's another issue, especially since he was the first to vote to close as dupe.

Grace Note

@RegDwight To wit, I was not thinking of the actual question as much as the root misconception.

user19161

I usually just go with the first person who tries to close it.

user19161

Unless of course, I am the first person.

user19161

2:15 PM

So I have just submitted my close vote.

Kit

Frigga. I can't figure it either, except that I want to close it.

RegDwight

@JasperLoy Then you don't go with yourself? Fascinating!

@Kit You have to be fast. Only a few seconds left.

Kit

@RegDwight Damn!

I hate the pressure!

user19161

@RegDwight Quick I want to see your name there on the closed by list!

user19161

I mean @kit!

Grace Note

2:16 PM

Gen. ref. still doesn't ring with me, though. It doesn't quite feel like that's really the root problem with the question that makes it close-worthy.

How does that compare with, say, esto?

Kit

@GraceNote Well, too bad. That's what I voted.

☺

@GraceNote That's a comparisons question. This one is not.

user19161

@GraceNote What is esto?

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote The first thing I thought when reading the question was "This is a well discussed topic that can be easily answered by a Google search", which I call gen ref

Kit

It's not worded clearly enough to be a dupe, really.

Grace Note

@Kit It looks less like a comparisons, and more like a definitions (which is quite qualified by the [meanings] tag)

Kit

2:18 PM

@GraceNote Yes, and comes down to "look it up"

Grace Note

@Kit Which was my point.

Kit

Unless there's a specific instance that's under question (like the "ingenious" or "infamous" questions)

@GraceNote Thanks, I feel better now.

At least, now I don't understand why you think it's not general ref.

RegDwight

0

Q: Drunkenness (slang)

Can someone help me? I am looking the phrase or equivalent of word "Drunkenness", I mean the state of man or woman at the morning after the hard drunkenness (slang). The phrase has the word "Dog...". Thank you.

slang

I think he's confusing English with German, and dog with cat.

Grace Note

The semi/pseudo/quasi question is just a cluster of definitions being asked. There's some hinting that there is some perception of difference, but it's all just about "What do all these prefixes mean?"

Kit

@RegDwight I was just going to post this.

RegDwight

2:20 PM

You are so slow today.

Rhodri

Hair of the dog

"Hair of the dog" is a colloquial expression in the English language predominantly used to refer to alcohol that is consumed with the aim of lessening the effects of a hangover. The expression originally referred to a method of treatment of a rabid dog bite by placing hair from the dog in the bite wound. The use of the phrase as a metaphor for a hangover treatment dates back to the time of William Shakespeare. Ebenezer Cobham Brewer writes in the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1898): "In Scotland it is a popular belief that a few hairs of the dog that bit you applied to the wound will p...

Kit

And the answer is "Hair of the dog" probably.

Jez

there's "dog tired"...

Grace Note

@JasperLoy Roughly translates to "this" in English. It's generally something in close proximity.

user19161

@GraceNote I see you are trying to use exotic language to confuse me...

Grace Note

2:23 PM

@JasperLoy Not really, on either account. Spanish isn't exotic and I use it because I got into the habit of using esto y eso y aquel in normal speech around 10 years ago.

Rhodri

@Grace: Spanish is exotic in England

Grace Note

@Kit This strikes me as a comparison question, with good backing to it. The pseudo/quasi/semi prefixes, however, doesn't really have the comparison angle to it at all.

Matt Ellen

@Rhodri Calais is exotic in England ;)

RegDwight

K people, who upvoted this?

0

A: "Practise the piano" vs. "practise medicine"

The kind of professional who practises medicine is known in some places as a medical practitioner. Wikipedia defines practitioner as A practitioner is someone who engages in an occupation, profession, religion, or way of life. This may be a more accurate description than 'doctor' when you c...

Rhodri

@MattEllen Nah, Calais is the off-license

RegDwight

2:25 PM

Seriously, how does it even begin to answer the question at hand?

Grace Note

The only cause for the in- question to be gen ref is that it's asking for what the prefix means at a bare level, and to that end, it's no more a general reference than the quasi/semi/pseudo question, when I look at it.

Kit

AFK.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote I would probably call that gen ref too.

@Kit Armed For Killin

Grace Note

@MattEllen If that's the case, we're on the road, hurrah ♪

RegDwight

See, that's why I was never a friend of that gen ref reason.

Grace Note

2:28 PM

At least, if we can coalesce all this into something more solid.

@RegDwight I'm very happy we do not have it on Gaming. I dread to think how that'll go.

RegDwight

Jun 11 at 13:06, by RegDwight

Every question is too basic if you know the answer, or where to look.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote Could you link the quasi/semi/pseudo question?

Grace Note

10

Q: "pseudo-", "quasi-" "semi-" and ...

I was wondering about the meaning of "pseudo-", "quasi-" "semi-" and possibly other related prefixes, in general cases. Particularly, in engineering and science, there are quite a few terms named with these prefixes. For example, "quasi-integrable", "pseudo-Newton method", "semigroup". But I ne...

meaning prefixes

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote ta!

user19161

Pseudoring, quasiseparated, semicircle exist in mathematics.

Matt Ellen

2:32 PM

but where does pseudoku fall?

user19161

@MattEllen I hate sudoku: I think it's a very...pretentious game, whatever that means.

RegDwight

I love sudoku.

Though I love kakuro more.

Matt Ellen

@JasperLoy I quite enjoy it. But I like puzzles. Maybe I missed the hype, so I'm not jaded

Grace Note

@MattEllen The hype went by very quickly. It was a very short period.

user19161

@RegDwight There is also a wordoku if I remember correctly.

Matt Ellen

2:34 PM

@GraceNote I was probably asleep then.

Grace Note

I think part of it was all wonky because people look at its resurgence and think "This kind of puzzle has been around for hundreds of years! Why are you finding it so interesting?" I wasn't impressed myself, in either direction.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote, regarding the "pseudo-", "quasi-" "semi-" question. I would mark it as gen ref. But now RegDwight mentions it, I'm not sure gen ref is a good reason. It has a certain amount of plausibility, so as to stop questions like "what is the definition of 'a'?" but at the same time, who's to draw the gen ref line?

Grace Note

@MattEllen Do you really want to hear the stock answer to that question that I'm pretty sure everyone is tired of hearing?

RegDwight

@GraceNote But that kind of answers itself. In fact, it's kind of nonsensical to wonder, "why do you find something interesting other people have been finding interesting for centuries?"

Grace Note

@RegDwight This is why I wasn't negatively impressed.

RegDwight

2:39 PM

I see.

Grace Note

It's not unlike the resurgence of fairly old material to transform into a new meme.

RegDwight

Новое — хорошо забытое старое.

Grace Note

Today would be a good day to pick-and-peck questions to develop a very low impression of English, it seems.

At least, if they didn't get closed each time they were brought up, it would've been a good day.

RegDwight

But that's the thing.

Matt Ellen

@GraceNote No I don't :) Although I think there is a good reason I haven't earned the rep for close votes yet.

RegDwight

2:40 PM

You can't blame us for stuff we close.

Grace Note

@RegDwight And I have no intention of doing so.

RegDwight

Jul 12 at 21:45, by RegDwight

I just went to SO to check, the top question on my front page is this:

Jul 12 at 21:45, by RegDwight

-3

Q: delete delete delete delete delete delete delete

delete delete delete delete delete vdelete

javascript jquery html css

I am still waiting for Jeff to get all up in arms about that one.

I never visit SO. But that one time I did, and this was the top question.

Matt Ellen

@RegDwight Best. Question. Ever.

Grace Note

And... methinks I've started a bad spiral. Sorry.

RegDwight

I like the part where he introduces some variation by saying "vdelete".

@GraceNote Nah, no worries. I'll be out in a sec. Got work to do.

Grace Note

2:43 PM

@RegDwight Yeah, you'll be out. But most likely on a more sour note than originally, thanks to my meddling.

Rhodri

@RegDwight His finger slipped on the control key, I bet.

RegDwight

And note how it's a quote. Old stuff. Dori and Rebecca were around.

Except that IIRC they wisely ignored me.

@Rhodri I am working on a sequel to my ZOMG question as we speak.

What is the origin of vdelete?

Matt Ellen

very delete

RegDwight

That's not origin, that's meaning. Insta-disqualified.

Matt Ellen

came about on 4chan in 1998

RegDwight

2:45 PM

That's better.

Matt Ellen

when tim berners lee saw goatse for the first time

Grace Note

For all that has been said, there's also a lot more gemstones today, but I suppose whenever you look for stuff, you find it.

RegDwight

@MattEllen Accepted, since that is very well documented.

+15 would accept again.

Matt Ellen

glad to be of service ;)

RegDwight

@GraceNote Today is not the best day. Ten days ago was horror. But there are always days where everything just shines. It comes and goes.

Grace Note

2:48 PM

@RegDwight Was ten days ago horror on the main site?

RegDwight

There was a sudden influx of really crap questions, yes. Three days in a row.

Grace Note

Ah. I see. One of those days.

RegDwight

Jul 11 at 13:56, by RegDwight

Seriously, have you seen the stuff I was whining about earlier today?

Well, perhaps not 10 days but 9. Same difference.

Grace Note

@RegDwight I wouldn't be surprised in the veracity of one of your immediately following statements.

RegDwight

There are days when I wish we were like MetaFilter.

Each time they get mentioned somewhere real big, they close the site for newbies.

You are truly interested? Then you'll come back anyway. You're not? Then go away.

Grace Note

2:52 PM

@RegDwight If it weren't so counter to everything I have stood for on several past occasions, I'd almost suggest this as a feature-request.

(And thusly, my primary motivation for not suggesting to suggest is that I don't want to have to write up a counter-argument)

RegDwight

Well, those guys also ask you to pay. They really have a different model.

But hey, it works. And they run the site with just three people.

Grace Note

@RegDwight I was not aware of this, but honestly, all I know about Metafilter is that people mention it a lot and how many things we should incorporate from it

RegDwight

After having seen that video that got passed around on MSO, I have to say we already have incorporated a helluvalot such things.

Grace Note

(For example, mmyers brought up a very amusing section of their FAQ that isn't the unwisest of options)

Or was that Reddit I'm thinking of?

@RegDwight I've not seen the video.

RegDwight

psfk.com/2011/03/…

6

A: Can we have a better name for the 10k "Moderator tools"?

Matt Haughey of MetaFilter recently released a video that describes all of the tools that they created over the years to help moderate their site with only 3 or 4 moderators. Many of the tools are very similar to the ones you see as a 10k user. Matt Haughey's MetaFilter Video actually does a re...