English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

@Cerberus but it's one thing to "come out" to your parents and another thing to never need to. But I think most people still take a default heterosexual position when it comes to their own children and the children go along with it until it's untenable.

@Cerberus I can't understand much of what she's saying either.

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Gay for pay. chortle That's the best kind. It's sooo much dirtier that way, when they don't really want it.

Oop.

Did I write that out loud?

In the ye old times beeing queer and gay, was much more acceptable.

7:02 PM

frankly how is "gay for pay" different than any other kind of porn

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, not needing to in the sense that it it was easy to tell will probably be some time. But many children don't make a separate statement about being gay: they just announce that they have a bf/gf.

@Kitḫ "Want" it?

As in, like it?

Yep.

Sex is sex

@Cerberus I wonder, though, how many times that qualifies as "coming out".

@Kitḫ Oh, good.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I guess it does.

It also depends on how formal the occasion is.

7:04 PM

"I made teacake. By the way, I like girls." <—coming out

@Cerberus What I mean is, I wonder how many times that is something that they hid, or considered hiding, from their parents for fear of disapproval (and not for the usual reasons kids hide their significant others from their parents)

If you just mention it to your mother while making dinner together, it is less formal than when you call up your parents to tell them that you have something to announce when you visit them next weekend.

"This is Anna. We're totally doing it." <—not coming out

@Kitḫ no, better is if the teacake has "I like girls" written on it in icing

Hand written letter " Dear mother, I am herby writting you this letter to offically inform you about my marital status ..."

7:05 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Nice.

I never came out to my parents.

@Kitḫ If he was totally doing it with anna, I guess he would be coming out. Otherwise anna would de dissapointed...

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Now, you mean? I'd say 99 % of the time it is more difficult for gay children.

Perhaps I should bake teacakes.

Is it more acceptable for boys or girls to "come out" ?

I had a friend in college who threw a party and then announced he was gay at the party. Our reaction was pretty much a collective, "Did you just realize it? Because we've known for ages."

7:07 PM

@Kitḫ If the thing you have with fellow females has never come close to living together, I don't really see why they would need to be informed?

@Cerberus yeah. I think it must be even for kids who know their parents are at least tolerant if not supportive. There's just too much homophobia that one can't take it for granted. It's not like announcing "btw mom, dad, I've become a coal miner"

@Cerberus That's been my position on the matter.

@N3buchadnezzar Hard to say. I'd say harder for boys to their friends; otherwise perhaps equally hard/easy.

Besides, it is rather difficult to explain.

@N3buchadnezzar I'd guess neither.

7:08 PM

@Kitḫ Haha, poor guy. And silly.

@Kitḫ well, you have a blog now, right?

go nuts!

I have settled for just introducing them to whoever I'm dating.

"No homo"

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Which is irrelevant now that I am married.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I knew my parents would be absolutely fine with it: no doubt there. And yet I dreaded the moment.

3

7:09 PM

@Cerberus WHAT!?

@Cerberus wait, you're gay?! and we had a big long argument about gay marriage!

@N3buchadnezzar This is funny.

Except Yankees fans.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, so?

@Kitḫ Yeah, It`s funny No homo.

@Kitḫ I'm sorry, mommy Kit.

7:12 PM

@Cerberus Oh, oh. You mean you're gay. Naw, that's cool.

We can totally sleep together now.

@Cerberus Thats cool, no homo =)

@Kitḫ Uh, wait...maybe there was something you didn't understand...

@Cerberus I dunno, it seems incongruous that you were (iirc) taking the position that gay marriage from the state should not be protected under anti-discrimination legislation as specified in the human rights code

@N3buchadnezzar Of course, bro!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Why was that incongruous?

I don't exactly remember my position.

@Cerberus I find it surprising that a gay person wouldn't feel that it is obviously a case of human rights discrimination when the state allows straight couples to marry but not gay couples

but perhaps you were playing hades advocate?

7:14 PM

Probably not.

well I don't want to re-open that debate

too much of my time was wasted

Aww.

Come on.

Fight, fight!

(wasted because I couldn't convince either YOU or JSB that I was CLEARLY right!)

You can convince me that you are right.

I think I meant that marriage was not about human rights?

7:16 PM

no fight... I'm going to instead stand with my three-headed canine brother and say that when I came out of the atheism closet I too was nervous about what my parents would say and I think that helped me empathize more with gay people .

Or that specifying gender is no more discriminating than many other things we accept as reasonable?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No shit. I always passed for Christian in the South too.

@Cerberus perhaps but the thing is that the government chooses to recognize marriage, and so it has to recognize every marriage or none. barring certain narrow exceptions. (also I'm oversimplifying)

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm...so your parents wanted you to participate in all kinds of religious activities, and you didn't feel comfortable about that any more at a certain point?

The only time I came close to coming out was that I said I was UU. The Baptist who asked me replied "Why don't you just pick a real religion?"

7:17 PM

@Cerberus um, yeah, sorta.

@Kitḫ "Fine, Islam"

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I didn't feel like dying that day.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah I can see how I would disagree with that, in that I don't see why discriminating against things like polygamy is less discriminating.

@Cerberus The long story is that my mom was pressing me on when I was going to get my daughter baptized. And just like I said before "don't come out over the phone", this was over the phone but I felt like I had to tell her.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Damn, dude. Kudos to you. That takes balls.

@Cerberus discriminating on number is different than discriminating on gender.

7:19 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ah, OK. And you had never discussed religion with them before?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Why?

@Cerberus not really. I wanted to avoid arguments and also my position had shifted over time.

@Cerberus nuh-uh. I have work to do.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 OK. And did you go to church with them and all?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hehe, wise.

@Cerberus Marriage is a legal contract involving a reciprocal relationship between two people. More than two makes the relationship much more complicated.

In any case, I still don't feel incongruous.

@Cerberus yes, I did but I'd stopped going on my own.

7:20 PM

It is a different type of contract then.

@Kitḫ So? Same sex makes it more complicated too, in certain ways.

@Cerberus Still a contract between two and only two entities.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ah OK. And were you married in church?

Now I go when there's some occasion but I no longer go up for communion.

@Cerberus Same sex actually changes nothing about the contract.

7:21 PM

@Kitḫ But why is forbidding that not discriminated against the so-inclined?

@Cerberus yes. Actually marriage prep class is one of the things that turned me away from religion.

@Cerberus number is a choice, gender/orientation is a birth feature.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ah OK. So how fervent is your parents' religion?

@Cerberus Also, I can't think of any contractual agreements that can be made between more than two parties.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 So you say. Someone else might say some people are genetically inclined towards polygamy.

@Cerberus my dad is probably agnostic or atheist but I was never sure. my mom is a fairly strong catholic but she holds some liberal views (for example, she thinks the church is wrong in its stance against condoms, or gays)

7:22 PM

Contracts are always between two and only two entities, right?

@Kitḫ You could just make three contracts, each between two?

@Cerberus I think that has yet to be determined. If it were shown to be true, then I'd say the government would have to deal with that question.

@Cerberus Theoretically, yes. But then you have problems with primacy.

Marriage between a man and a donkey is that fine?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 OK, so that isn't too bad. How did they take it?

@Kitḫ Why must there be primacy?

7:23 PM

@N3buchadnezzar What? No, don't be silly.

@Cerberus What if one wife says "pull the plug" and the other says "keep him alive no matter what"?

Rock paper siccors

If you divorce one wife, does the other wife divorce the wife as well?

Oop, I have to go, doorbell, bye all!

@Cerberus My mom was disappointed. But so far it hasn't been a problem.

I have no objection to polygamy per se, but it is completely different logistically and legally than marriage.

Also, it seems unnecessarily complicated.

7:27 PM

@Kitḫ My only objection is that right now the only people fighting to get it are the ones that are abusive and coercive to women. Thus they ruin it for everyone.

Yes, I see your point.

Also, given that my husband and I are monogamish, it makes very little sense to me to want to marry more than one person.

It seems obvious to me that a) you can't stop a group of people from living as if grouply-married, and b) a group marriage doesn't imply any wrong-doing. But why must all the known polygamists also be misogynists (and/or borderline pedophiles to boot)? yeesh

Probably because the only people who would argue for such things are the only people who would advertise that they are in such an arrangement.

@Kitḫ yeah, could be.

All the others are too smart to be misogynists and child molesters.

7:30 PM

so while I'm in favour in principle I'm probably opposed in practice. I think we'd need to set up some safeguards if it were ever legalized. And it's not to say that people aren't being forced into monogamous marriages against their wills. That happens too and nobody seems to think we should criminalize marriage.

Tru dat.

crawls out from under mountainous pile of papers toward lunch

But I assert that easing the constraint of one marriage per person at any given time will make things incredibly difficult for no good reason.

@aediaλ hands coffee

@Kitḫ My hero!

@aediaλ I think I might rather be your heroine.

7:33 PM

@Kitḫ heheh

@Kitḫ or heroin

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You get the picture.

Yes. That too.

We go together like black coffee and cigarettes
Like songs half-written and silhouettes
And like heroin, I slip you underneath my skin.

^One of my old verses.

I wrote it to go with a finger-picking practice.

I like.

It makes me think of those silhouette portrait things. I can't think if there's a name for them.

Makes me think of my apt in the West End, smoking, drinking and having a mad affair.

7:37 PM

Silhouette

A silhouette is the image of a person, an object or scene consisting of the outline and a basically featureless interior, with the silhouetted object usually being black. Although the art form has been popular since the mid-18th century, the term “silhouette” was seldom used until the early decades of the 19th century. Silhouette images may be created in any artistic media, but the tradition of cutting portraits from black card has continued into the 21st century. From its original graphic meaning, the term "silhouette" has been extended to describe the sight or representation of a per...

I guess no special name.

Uhwhat?

Why is it a lighthouse?

Daniel δ

@Monica: Big thumbs up for your edit just now!

@Kitḫ Kith, do you know why there is space between my fingers?

@aediaλ Oh, maybe you are thinking of cameo?

It's supposed to be like these.

@Kitḫ Yeah!

Wahoo!

@N3buchadnezzar Uh, no?

Are you crushing my head?

7:39 PM

So you could fill the space <3

... wha—? Kit confused.

Think about holding hands =)

Oh. I see.

I need to find a girlfriend =(

Let the girlfriend find you.

Oh, right!

I forgot to share my exciting news!

7:45 PM

Kind of hard, almost no females around my life now. only studying, and studying..

boardofwisdom.com/default.asp?topic=1005&listname=Love

I bought a new car!

Makes my heart go all giddy, but I am a sucker for clichees.

@Kitḫ Aweseome! Vooom! Vooooom!

I have to go register it now.

Bye all!

@Kitḫ Ooh! Have fun!

It's "vrooooom," not "voooooom."

7:51 PM

I tried to immitate the sound of a vacume cleaner, females are more likely to remember that sound

@N3buchadnezzar Does that mean you are suggesting she should drive a vacuum cleaner? :-)

Just call me sexist

I could not, as I don't know if you are.

But more women than men pick cars from their colour and not for their horsepowers, so it very well could be that she is driving a vacuum cleaner

in terms of horsepower

@kiamlaluno I just learned that vroom is a cross-linguistic onomatopoeia - it's similar in many different languages!

7:56 PM

I stopped checking how much horses a car has; does that mean I pick up a car from its color?

Gas mileage is more important.

@aediaλ Oh, I forgot we say bruum, in Italian.

I don't know why, but I can understand vroooom too.

@kiamlaluno But it sounds very similar, right? I'm excited about the idea that I could go so many places and be understood making car noises.

@aediaλ To me, it is more important if I can stay in the car; not all people are 6'2" tall.

@aediaλ That is amazing. Who would have imagined that?

Car sounds are similar

why are animal sounds so different?

7:58 PM

@aediaλ That's like how dogs in english say "woof" and in french say "ouaf" but in Chinese say "wang!"

whereas cats say "meow" in all three languages

Animals do make the same noises wheter the animals are from Norway or Dngland.

@kiamlaluno Hehe I am the other way; I have to be able to reach everything and see comfortably (5'1").

Woof, barf and in norway it is bjeff.

@N3buchadnezzar Wait, wait… Try listening to an American car's engine, and you will notice the difference.

While meow is mjau ^^

7:59 PM

Whoops, meeting! Later!

@N3buchadnezzar Those are all wrong: A dog makes "bau bau."

Aoouiuuoooooo

That's a wolf.

Auuu?

8:28 PM

Auf

8:48 PM

Nov 4 at 16:00, by Cerberus

@aediaλ Not sure. I think we have woef and waf. And the verb is blaffen, so you could say blaf.

9:16 PM

@aediaλ Now, I want to see a bluffing dog. :-)

@N3buchadnezzar I correct myself: That is a wolf that is trying to say aiutoooo.

Now, why do I need a serialized PHP array, and they provide me a XML string?

@kiamlaluno And a dog is trying to say, I am hungry, I am hungry, Oh look there is my tail, there is my tail, there is my tail, CHASE ALL THE CATS, oh look food, Oh there is my tail, PET ME, I want to go oouuuutside

More commonly expressed in dog tounge as Barf Barf waf Baarf barf woof

@N3buchadnezzar Do they say that with just a "woof"?

Yes

You know, 90% of our language is body language not the words themselves.

I am more a cat person though.

Now, that is really a language of few words.

Love dogs, but cats are better.

9:23 PM

Yes, I can see that. Cooked cats are better than cooked dogs.

That is, if you are not Chinese, I guess.

That's funny.

Dog language is sort of short

Have you ever read Lord of the rings? The ents have a very slow and formal language

Much like wolf language

The ents?

Wolves use a long time to say simple things video explenation below

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Ent

Ents are a race of beings in J. R. R. Tolkien's fantasy world Middle-earth who closely resemble trees. They are similar to the talking trees in folklore around the world. Their name is derived from the Anglo-Saxon word for giant. The Ents appear in The Lord of the Rings as ancient shepherds of the forest and allies of the Free Peoples of Middle-earth during the War of the Ring. The Ent who figures most prominently in the book is Treebeard, one of the oldest creatures in Tolkien's world. At the time The Lord of the Rings takes place, there are no young Ents (Entings) because the Entwi...