The h Bar

John Rennie

18:00

The complicated option is to press shift-F10 at the first install screen and that will open a command prompt. Then you can use the diskpart command to wipe the disk.

Prathyush Poduval

okay, so I have to install the windows 10 image first?

John Rennie

@PrathyushPoduval I like to keep the OS and user data separate, so I always use a 128GB C: drive for Windows and the rest of the disk as a D: drive where I keep my data. But for most users I'd say just partition it all as a single C: drive.

Prathyush Poduval

okay

John Rennie

@PrathyushPoduval I'm not sure what you mean by that ...

Prathyush Poduval

the installer

for windows 10, the .iso file

John Rennie

18:03

Typically you download the installer from MS as an ISO. Then you either burn it to a DVD disk or extract it to a USB key. I recommend using the USB key as it's faster.

Prathyush Poduval

okay

I can download it from here right?

John Rennie

You can get the ISO from here

That's the very latest version direct from MS.

Click the Download tool now button

Prathyush Poduval

done it, "getting a few things ready" now

DanielSank

@JohnRennie I have a laptop with Windows 8. It doesn't work because MS released an update years ago that makes the updater program run all the time.

I haven't found any documentation about how to reliably fix this.

Advice?

Prathyush Poduval

@JohnRennie should I chose the "use recommended options"?

John Rennie

18:07

@DanielSank Copy off all the data, wipe the disk completely, then do a bare metal install using the ISO downloaded from the link above. Your Windows 8 licence key will work with Windows 10.

@PrathyushPoduval in the Download tool?

Prathyush Poduval

yes

John Rennie

Erm, yes, I think so. The recommeded options normally get everything right.

Prathyush Poduval

okay, continuing..

it's downloading

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Is this recommendation based on the specific problem I have, or is this what you'd recommend whenever Windows does something non-ideal?

Prathyush Poduval

I'll do the install this sunday] @JohnRennie, I'll do the backup of my data before then

DanielSank

18:11

How big is the iso?

John Rennie

@DanielSank The latter. Windows is a hugely complicated OS and like all complex systems when it breaks weird emergent behaviour results. You can waste a lifetime figuring out exactly what is going wrong, or you can spend 15 minutes reinstalling Windows.

@DanielSank about 3GB

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Oh god, so a 32G drive might work?

John Rennie

@PrathyushPoduval If you want me to talk you through it I'll be happy to help. I've already done it for Kaumudi and Blue :-)

DanielSank

@JohnRennie You can install an OS, all your programs, and your user data in fifteen minutes?! o_O

Prathyush Poduval

@JohnRennie Yeah, that would be wonderful

DanielSank

18:12

Teach me the way.

John Rennie

@DanielSank Win10 will fit ona 32GB drive, but the problem is that apps will want to install themselves onto the same drive and lots of apps are big these days.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Why would there by user programs on the USB?

John Rennie

@DanielSank ah, you mean a 32GB USB key for doing the install?

Yes, that's tons big enough. A 4GB key would work. ISOs aren't compressed.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie Ah, yes.

I want Windows for one program!

John Rennie

@PrathyushPoduval I'll be around from about 05:30 UTC on Saturday. Note I'm not around on Sunday 24th as I'll be driving to my Mum's house.

@DanielSank buy a spare laptop.

Prathyush Poduval

18:16

How about the week after that then? (I realised even I wont be here this sunday :P)

John Rennie

@DanielSank I know that seems a bit decadent, but you'll get a really good Dell laptop for less than $200 on eBay.

DanielSank

@JohnRennie I have one! It's really nice, but the OS received a patch that killed it and I never fixed it.

John Rennie

@PrathyushPoduval I'm around pretty much every day as I work from about 5:00 every day. Just not on Christmas eve :-)

@DanielSank ah, OK.

DanielSank

It's a fantastic Asus zenbook.

I loved it.

Prathyush Poduval

Yeah no problem, whenever you're free. So I'll ping you when I'm free next week (after christmas)?

John Rennie

18:18

@DanielSank Pro-tip - buy an SSD to replace the hard disk. The speed increase is unbelievable.

@PrathyushPoduval yes fine.

Prathyush Poduval

thanks

DanielSank

@JohnRennie It already has one. Does that make me a pro?

John Rennie

It does :-)

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty I'm here now

Still need help?

DanielSank

@JohnRennie hot diggity!

Bernardo Meurer

18:23

@DanielSank Use a VM

Run Windows 7 inside VirtualBox

It's what I do whenever I need to use the dark side

@EmilioPisanty If you ever need me when I'm not here I'm usually reachable on Hangouts on [email protected]

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer no, IT sorted it out

thanks tho

could use your input on the inking thing

@DanielSank Inkscape for a presentation?

sounds like a recipe for disaster

never used Google slides

might give them a try, but it doesn't sound like it's going to be a particularly reliable platform

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Inking thing?

Emilio Pisanty

but in any case, that's not really what "getting away from proprietary software" really looks like, is it?

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Here are some realistic solutions:

Bernardo Meurer

What is happening

DanielSank

18:34

Beamer (LaTeX), Google slides (there is probably a math plugin), uh.. not sure what else.

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer adding this kind of inking in via stylus onto a set of conference slides

using non-proprietary software

@DanielSank how do you ink in math onto beamer?

Bernardo Meurer

Let me think for a moment

You mean using like a wacom tablet thingy?

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Wait, you want the funny looking script?

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer I mean using a laptop touchscreen and a stylus. but the wacom tablet thingy also works.

@DanielSank yes

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty oh. Ok I give up.

Emilio Pisanty

18:36

I find it to be very effective at conveying information in a simple way

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty I would use Inkscape to make the drawings with SVG, and then make my presentations with Beamer (LaTeX) and import them there

#FREEDOM

Emilio Pisanty

consider e.g. this set of (relatively old) slides

@BernardoMeurer that sounds nice in the abstract, but it's nowhere near a scalable workflow

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Define scalable in this context

DanielSank

Actually, it's very scalable.

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer I mean something that can produce the slides for an hour-long presentation and have them sit in a single file without creating a shower of auxiliary .svgs

DanielSank

18:38

You can import slides you've already made into a presentation.

Emilio Pisanty

where I can edit all of them within a single application

DanielSank

What's wrong with having your figures not embedded into the presentation?

It's considerably more scalable to not imbed them.

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty I agree with Daniel, however I understand your critic

In that case I would consider making your images in Inkscape and the presentations in LibreOffice or OpenOffice

Emilio Pisanty

where I can add and substract elements directly onto the page (so I can e.g. slowly build up a diagram over several slides)

Bernardo Meurer

Or Google Slides if you want to use proprietary javascript

DanielSank

18:39

Libre/Open-Office's presentation program's kind of aren't that good.

Emilio Pisanty

where I can make the ink react to the typeset elements of the page

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Beamer has commands for that.

Bernardo Meurer

@DanielSank No, they are not good. But they work. I've done plenty presentations on them

DanielSank

(But ok, I admit beamer has its problems)

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Beamer supports all that, it's just kind of a PITA tbh

Emilio Pisanty

18:40

@DanielSank yes, but it'll take some very sophisticated interplay between beamer and the svgs to get it to work with the ink

Bernardo Meurer

^Yes

Emilio Pisanty

but the real killer there is that if I e.g. need to translate the slides, or otherwise make small changes to the typeset elements, then it would require a lot of fine-tuned adjustment and/or re-creating a bunch of svgs from scratch

... and this might happen a full six months (or way more) after I made the original, so I don't have the details fresh

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty Translation is no more work with beamer than with anything else...

I'm confused.

Emilio Pisanty

on power point, if you re-typeset some bit and the ink needs to respond, it's a few adjustments on the ink or possibly just adding some extra lines

DanielSank

What do you mean "ink"?

Emilio Pisanty

18:43

@DanielSank translating between English and Spanish will radically change the text lengths. If the ink is e.g. arrows between bits of text, then it'll likely need to be re-done

@DanielSank most everything you can't select as text in the pdf I linked

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Have you tried just using LibreOffice and embrancing the horrible UI?

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer yes

Bernardo Meurer

That's what I did in HS, I hated my life but I was happy knowing I pleased the Gods

Emilio Pisanty

it is ranked, far and away, as the most painful experience I've ever had making a presentation

I am never doing that again

Bernardo Meurer

Honestly, If you really want good presentations AND you don't want to bother with complex software; I'd use Apple's Keynote software

it's gorgeous

Otherwise Malwaresoft's Office is supposedly good too

DanielSank

18:46

Or, you know, beamer...

Bernardo Meurer

> AND you don't want to bother with complex software;

DanielSank

Or Google slides, which is actually pretty nice.

Bernardo Meurer

beamer is complex

Emilio Pisanty

another nice example: ppt, pdf (with some font substitutions in the export)

Bernardo Meurer

GSlides is nice but last time I used it (a long time ago admittedly) it lacked features

Emilio Pisanty

18:47

@BernardoMeurer can you install keynote on windows? linux?

DanielSank

I assure you, @BernardoMeurer, that beamer is a bajillion times simpler than Keynote.

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank beamer has its purposes, and I do use it a fair bit

but there are design goals that it simply cannot reach

Bernardo Meurer

@DanielSank That is definitely not true. Think about that statement for one second.

My grandma uses keynote

If I told her to use beamer she would spontaneously combust

Emilio Pisanty

^ true

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Sadly no. Unless you have the, painful and illegal, knowhow of macOS VM setup

ACuriousMind

18:49

@DanielSank I think you have a programmer's mind and have forgotten that most people do not find typing arcane commands into a file and having it fail to compile a dozen times before getting any output "simple" :P

Emilio Pisanty

most likely

@DanielSank beamer is very simple to use if you're after a presentation that follows a very rigid template

DanielSank

@ACuriousMind No, I think I know I'm talking to a physicist who can operate with the software I'm recommending..

I wouldn't recommend Beamer to others.

Same as I wouldn't recommend vim to others.

Bernardo Meurer

@DanielSank But his whole point is he wants something v. simple and usable; no?

i.e. he doesn't want to bother with beamer's magic

DanielSank

He said "scalable".

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank scalable once the ink is taken into account ;-)

seriously, have a peek at them links I just posted and tell me they don't have a worthwhile aesthetic

it might not be your style

but it's my style ;-)

Bernardo Meurer

19:00

@EmilioPisanty I don't like them, but I always encourage making things you find beautiful

Unless you find truly egregious things beautiful

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer where does comic sans fall on the egriegiousness scale?

::grins::

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty They are very good.

Emilio Pisanty

no, just kidding, I wouldn't use comic sans on a professional presentation

DanielSank

Didn't know that "campo" is used in that sense.

Emilio Pisanty

I do use comic neue fairly often though, mostly to very nice effect

0celo7

19:02

ugh

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank as in the "field" of "electric field"?

0celo7

typesetting chat

Emilio Pisanty

yes, it is

@0celo7 yes, it is

=P

@DanielSank thank you

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Pretty low, Comic Sans is pretty much the staple of egregious

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer =P

what about Comic Neue?

0celo7

19:04

Was comic sans a joke font?

DanielSank

@EmilioPisanty yes

0celo7

High school teachers seemed to like comic sans though

Emilio Pisanty

@DanielSank yeah, same etymology

@0celo7 joke fonts are a perilous line to walk

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty Comic Neue is better, but still NO

CooperCape

So what's a field in terms of algebra then...

0celo7

19:06

@CooperCape a ring with inverses

CooperCape

Okay I'll let that question slide then (for now...)

Emilio Pisanty

@BernardoMeurer ah, c'mon, Bernie, learn to love the com

0celo7

@BernardoMeurer got an A in fortran

teach me C now

Bernardo Meurer

@EmilioPisanty @ACuriousMind I am being visually harassed

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape something that has all the properties you'd actually want to be able to call something "numbers"

Bernardo Meurer

19:07

Using Comic Sans goes against the Be Nice policy

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty that's an awful thing to say

Bernardo Meurer

@0celo7 Nice, congrats!

0celo7

natural numbers aren't numbers?

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 =P

CooperCape

Right...

Emilio Pisanty

19:08

they get about a 7/10 on number-ness

CooperCape

I'll leave this for a time I understand things better

0celo7

integers aren't numbers?

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 those get an 8/10

rationals get a proper 10/10

0celo7

complex numbers are 10+i/10

ACuriousMind

@EmilioPisanty I feel uncomfortable rating the integers with a rational :P

2

Bernardo Meurer

19:09

@ACuriousMind True

0celo7

@ACuriousMind have you watched the Sopranos

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape To appease @0celo7 a bit: a field is a set that's endowed with all the operations that fit within the standard definition of arithmetic (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division) and they work just as well as they do for the rationals with no ifs or buts

Bernardo Meurer

@CooperCape Just google field and read the property list, it's pretty easy

Emilio Pisanty

(by contrast, on a ring, you might not be able to divide properly)

Bernardo Meurer

If I can understand it anyone can

Emilio Pisanty

19:11

ok, maybe with a couple ifs or buts

ACuriousMind

@0celo7 Not yet, no. I don't think I'll do that anytime soon

Emilio Pisanty

you might not be able to do something like $(1+1+1)/(1+1)$ over some fields

CooperCape

you what...

crikey

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape =P

$\mathbb Z_2={0,1}$ is a field

0celo7

idk what the significance of that is either

Emilio Pisanty

19:12

under standard multiplication and addition

0celo7

work in a field of characteristic 3 and then 1+1+1=0

Emilio Pisanty

where you define $1+1=0$

CooperCape

why is 1+1 0

Actually don't answer that I'll learn sometime soon

Like a week

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape because in some circumstances it can be a useful thing to do

0celo7

because mathematicians can't count so they made up new spaces where their shit arithmetic is correct

2

Bernardo Meurer

19:13

PSA: ohshitgit.com

0celo7

why do you think physicists invented fermions? the minus signs didn't work out so they said "fuck you nature I'll invent anticommuting variables"

CooperCape

Ahh yeah fair that makes sense of course

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape Maybe give this tutorial a whirl

0celo7

adapt. overcome.

there's a third one but I forgot it

Emilio Pisanty

I haven't read that one specifically but, generally speaking,

Math $\cap$ Programming is awesome

CooperCape

19:15

@EmilioPisanty I've just bought a book wit all of this in arriving soon just read contents and hadn't heard of a fieldy-wieldy in terms of algebra

So sometime in le future

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape sure

CooperCape

I'll check the linky out tho

Emilio Pisanty

@CooperCape yeah, maybe not that one specifically but there's lots of cool stuff there

CooperCape

One useful resource.

Emilio Pisanty

I went through the elliptic curves one recently and it's awesome

Anonymous

19:16

@CooperCape I'd advice not moving too fast through this stuff...

CooperCape

Oh yeah I know I just wondered what it was

I don't have a clue about any of this, however.

Anonymous

I tried that...it doesn't work. Do LA properly first

0celo7

linear algebra is worthless

@Slereah do you understand the spectral crap now?

Slereah

Not yet

I had to go home!

I'll read on more tomorrow

Emilio Pisanty

@Blue this. Do linear algebra properly first.

0celo7

19:18

@Slereah you're gonna learn direct integration which is awesome

Anonymous

@0celo7 It's probably the most useful part of math

Emilio Pisanty

particularly if you're a physicist

0celo7

I don't think there are any physicists in here

Slereah

I'm a physicist

Emilio Pisanty

@Blue don't debate that point, P(0celo7 is trolling)>50%

0celo7

19:19

you're a programmer

Emilio Pisanty

I'm a physicist

CooperCape

Apparently the work matrix has been said 2466 times in the h bar...

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty you're the single exception

CooperCape

(2467 now)

Anonymous

@0celo7 I have never understood your definition of "physicist" :P

0celo7

19:19

@Blue if the person knows what a field is, they're likely not a physicist, for one

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 @DanielSank is still vaguely around

he's a physicist

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty he's a "quantum engineer"

Emilio Pisanty

wtf is a quantum engineer

Anonymous

@0celo7 That's such nonsense. Pretty sure all good theoretical physicists know what field is

0celo7

whatever Daniel is

Emilio Pisanty

19:20

other than a catchy name to call yourself when you're a physicist but you want Google to hire you

CooperCape

@EmilioPisanty Mithrandir for one...

lmao

Anonymous

@EmilioPisanty lol

0celo7

@Blue Yeah that's completely wrong

Anonymous

@0celo7 Proof?

0celo7

You want me to prove a negative?

Slereah

19:21

I'm a physicist in my SOUL

0celo7

First prove to me that there weren't WMDs in Iraq!

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 well, @Blue could happily define "good", in the context of theoretical physicists, as somebody who knows what a field is

0celo7

@EmilioPisanty I was going to point that out but decided not to go that route

But the "proof" is that 95% of theoretical physicists don't need to know what a field is, hence there are some who don't.

Slereah

What do you mean by "knowing what a field is"

CooperCape

fuckin... maths.

0celo7

19:23

I don't even know

Slereah

Do you mean like the fancy bundle definition

0celo7

No, an algebraic field

Slereah

o

I think physicists are likely to see what a field is but to forget it very fast

It's one of those things you might see in a math module and never use again

bolbteppa

5 years olds know what a field is, without knowing the words people attached to such obvious concepts

Anonymous

@bolbteppa Hehe :D

0celo7

19:24

It's hard to respond to @bolbteppa without getting banned

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 is there some quote similarity I'm missing there, btw?

0celo7

Perhaps impossible

@EmilioPisanty ??

CooperCape

I swear most times I've been 'talking' to you, you get banned 0celo...

Emilio Pisanty

@0celo7 the Sopranos and rating stuff?

ACuriousMind

@EmilioPisanty No, he literally just recommended I should watch the Sopranos

Emilio Pisanty

19:25

oh

Slereah

Should I watch the sopranos

0celo7

@Slereah yes

Slereah

or the altos

bolbteppa

@Slereah do you know the fancy bundle definition, was thinking of reviewing it today

0celo7

when is BCS coming back?

also Westworld in April (?)

Slereah

19:26

@0celo7 "2018"

@bolbteppa It's a bundle section

bam

bolbteppa

If $g$ is an element of the Poincare group and $V(g)$ is a representation of this group element, then apparently $V(g)$ 'acts in fibres $\psi(x) \in V_x$'

Slereah

@0celo7 how offensive is the show to italians

bolbteppa

Whatever that means

skullpatrol

depends on if you get offended by being associated with the "mafia"

Slereah

Family Guy Racist Italian Jokes

►

skullpatrol

19:33

yeah, that^ is the idea

Slereah

I'm all for italian racism

let's download it

I mean buy it legally

skullpatrol

replace "racist" with "mafia"

Slereah

Do they say "badaboom badabing" a lot

skullpatrol

yup

Slereah

Sold

skullpatrol

19:37

iirc, we had a HUGE dispute in here about the the use of the "mafia" metaphor

Slereah

The physics mafia

skullpatrol

mods in particular

Emilio Pisanty

seen on facebook recently:

Writing proposals and justifications is so much easier when you work on superconductivity. It's like activating a science cheat code.

Slereah

Superconductivity and nanotech

Emilio Pisanty

I imagine @DanielSank's been on the cheater hookup for too long to even notice =P

Slereah

19:39

that's where the GDP is at

i think quantum computing still leaves some people skeptical

Emilio Pisanty

@Slereah yeah, but if you're doing superconducting QC though

Slereah

What can quantum computing do well, outside of prime factorization

I mean that's a useful thing for cryptography, but that's a pretty narrow use

skullpatrol

prime factorization is the back bone of number theory

Anonymous

It can possibly have some uses in chemistry

Anonymous

Specifically computational chemistry

Slereah

19:43

@skullpatrol And number theory is good for cryptography

And....

....

...

skullpatrol

..

.

Slereah

!

anyway that's why quantum computing is great

Anonymous

@Slereah Quantum ______ is great. You can fill in the blank with anything you want :P

Slereah

@DanielSank why is computing great

skullpatrol

why are computers great

Emilio Pisanty

19:49

@Slereah it's not what it can do well now

bolbteppa

Modular forms Jacobi nonsense in string theory

Emilio Pisanty

it's what you can write on grant applications that it could potentially do someday

Slereah

Well right now it can do nothing well

@EmilioPisanty like what

bolbteppa

They just throw it at you like you should know these insane number theory calculations as in GSW appendix

Emilio Pisanty

@Slereah optimization problems, machine learning, solving quantum chemistry, curing cancer, solving global warming

Slereah

19:51

How many of those have a solid foundation for it though

Anonymous

@EmilioPisanty Could you elaborate on the "solving global warming"? (This is a serious question. I'm curious)

Slereah

(it's a joke)

Emilio Pisanty

@Blue same as curing cancer

except change "quantum chemistry of molecules" for "quantum chemistry of solids" and apply to solar cells

Anonymous

@EmilioPisanty Ah

Emilio Pisanty

also "solve materials science"

and apply to any branch of technology where progress is aided by better materials

Anonymous

19:53

It's a long way to reach that level. But yeah, I agree

Emilio Pisanty

@Blue well, yes

Slereah

Can't we just admit that we fucked up global warming and just evolve heat resistant bodies

Emilio Pisanty

but it's also a place where if you scale enough, then you do know that there are good things to be had

the exponential wall that you hit with quantum chemistry past some ten electrons or so is very real

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