The h Bar - 2017-12-18 (page 1 of 4)

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12:04 AM

Mar 23 '16 at 22:27, by ArtOfCode

Let me just drop a reminder in here: Be Nice. No matter who it is, whether you like them or not, it is a requirement of chat that everyone is nice to everyone else. Professional respect is a great thing.

Huh, so this is the most starred post on the chat, according to a script I wrote.

I was hoping for something funnier, so this kind of seems like a waste of time...

Mithrandir24601

@SirCumference Yeah, I was flicking through the starred posts on Worldbuilding earlier (nowhere near as many as on here) and the few highest ones are all mod posts either reminding people something similar or admin stuff (e.g. so-and-so got elected as a mod)

I did not star that btw

I want to downvote it, in fact

Hail Satan

@DanielSank I'd be content with just the Nice Answer badge, so I can get an astronomy hat...

@SirCumference Just one star less:

Jul 7 at 20:07, by dmckee

Hard for things to be going much better: I'm a father as of today.

@SirCumference /me abuses mod edit powers to fix an 18-month-old typo

Mithrandir24601

12:18 AM

@ArtOfCode There's got to be a hat for that, surely :P

@ArtOfCode What typo?

@SirCumference "is is"

s/is/it/

@ArtOfCode Ah

1:16 AM

Allo... Anyone here can recommend a good editor for .bib files on a Mac?

1:49 AM

@ACuriousMind our love is a farce

2:22 AM

@ZeroTheHero I use emacs. But then I use emacs for a lot of things.

There is a bibtex mode, so you get highlighting, and it can insert blank entries, though I rarely bother.

1 hour later…

3:30 AM

0

Q: Renaming visible-light?

I've noticed the visible-light tag has a tendency to be incorrectly applied in cases where the OP happened to have visible light in mind when they asked the question, but they are really asking about electromagnetic radiation in general. (recent example, and there are many other visible-light que...

discussion tags retagging

4:22 AM

Hi everybody

@ZeroTheHero vim

That's sort of a joke

@dmckee That's an interesting suggestion. I used emacs many years ago and I quite liked it. I find BibDesk terribly frustrating.

@DanielSank wow... vim is still out there? That must go back like 25 years.

Vim and emace both still exist and are still locked in a holy war of text editors ;)

The Crusades lasted 200yrs or so.

I am under pressure to convert to systematically using bibtex files...

5:22 AM

@ZeroTheHero yeah I write all my Python and TeX with vim.

Vim is absolutely amazing. The basic stuff and plugins make editing code so easy and fast.

Anonymous

6:04 AM

@JohnRennie Hi, you there? I installed this autocomplete package (atom.io/packages/autocomplete-python) on the Atom editor but but I'm not sure how to activate it

@Blue morning

Anonymous

I have the Scripts package already installed

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Good morning :)

Is that Windows or Ubuntu?

Anonymous

I'm on Windows currently

Anonymous

6:06 AM

Earlier I just used to execute the .py files from cmd

Anonymous

But that autocompletion stuff is useful to have

Anonymous

I think Atom works for Ubuntu too, got to try

I've no idea I'm afraid. I had never even heard of the Atom editor.

Prathyush Poduval

@Blue Is that an external editor?

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval It's just a text editor

Anonymous

6:09 AM

@JohnRennie Oops. Which IDE do you use?

Prathyush Poduval

Oh okay

@Blue I use an editor called Codewright that is probably older than you are :-)

Anonymous

Hehe. Actually Atom is useful because I can sync it with Github

For Python I don't use an IDE because I don't write much Python. For C++ I use Visual Studio.

Prathyush Poduval

I prefer the simplicity of IDLE, you're not overloaded with lots of buttons and other shitz

Anonymous

6:11 AM

@PrathyushPoduval IDLE is awfully restricting. It's useful for beginners

Prathyush Poduval

restricting in what sense? I never had any trouble with it

Anonymous

But doesn't offer syntax checking or autocompletion like an IDE should

Prathyush Poduval

I didn't want those features. They just clutter the screen for me

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Heh...

Prathyush Poduval

Notepadd++ also has them, i use it for c++

The black backgroud also strains me eyes

Anonymous

6:15 AM

It seems I need to install Kite first

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Also IDLE can't manage to sync your Github projects, nor can you navigate between the Python files on your system from within IDLE

Anonymous

It is used normally to teach beginners. No professional would use it

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval You can always change background color

Prathyush Poduval

I haven't started using githuh yet (I think I should soon :P) why not use file explorer for navigating?

@Blue ah yeah, I never tried that out :P

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Using file explorer to navigate is a pain in the ass

Prathyush Poduval

6:20 AM

I have vs code installed, I'll try it out there and see if I can adjust to it

Anonymous

Ah, I heard of vs code

Prathyush Poduval

@Blue I usually have the important folders opened while I'm writing my code so I can navigate it easily while writing

Anonymous

This looks useful: kite.com

Prathyush Poduval

What do you need that for now?🧐

@Blue I've been programming since well before you were born, and I don't use an IDE. Well, I do use VS but I don't use many of the IDE features. I use GIT from a command line.

I'm not saying this is the right way to code. I'm just saying it is one way to code.

Anonymous

6:31 AM

@JohnRennie I was talking about IDLE...you probably don't use IDLE to code, do you?

I don't know what IDLE is ...

Prathyush Poduval

As long as I can run my code from the editor, I'm fine

IDLE (Integrated DeveLopment Environment or Integrated Development and Learning Environment) is an integrated development environment for Python, which has been bundled with the default implementation of the language since 1.5.2b1. It is packaged as an optional part of the Python packaging with many Linux distributions. It is completely written in Python and the Tkinter GUI toolkit (wrapper functions for Tcl/Tk). IDLE is intended to be a simple IDE and suitable for beginners, especially in an educational environment. To that end, it is cross-platform, and avoids feature clutter. According to the...

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Huh...it comes built in with Python...

Prathyush Poduval

@JohnRennie python editor which comes with python

6:32 AM

Presumably that's what you mean ...

Prathyush Poduval

Yeah

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Right. That's an in-built crude editor that comes with the Python 3 install. You surely don't use that. :P

I use a separate text editor and run the program from the command line.

Anonymous

I was telling Pratyush why IDLE is awfully restricting

Anonymous

Hehe

Anonymous

6:34 AM

@JohnRennie I used to do the same. But it is very useful to have autocompletion and function documentations (pop up) when you are writing programs

But as I mentioned earlier I don't do much Python work. The longest app I've written in Python is only a few thousand lines.

@Blue I must admit that when I'm doing hard core C++ hackery I find it enormously helpful that VS shows me class methods etc as I'm typing :-)

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Yeah, that's the thing! :)

If I were writing similarly sized apps in Python then yes I'd also want those facilities.

Prathyush Poduval

Maybe that explains the awful amount of googling I do while writing code......

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Start using a real IDE :P

6:37 AM

@Blue Like PyCharm..

Anonymous

@Ihsan Yup. PyCharm had some issues on my machine though....

Anonymous

I'll try to install it again

@Blue what issue ??

Anonymous

@Ihsan Couldn't find the interpreter even though it was in the same folder

@Blue have you follow this jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/configuring-python-interpreter.html

Anonymous

6:40 AM

I did. It wasn't working. I'll try again. later

well good luck..

Anonymous

7:18 AM

Phew phew...finally made Kite work (integrated with Atom).

Anonymous

All documentations pop up immediately along with autocomplete..yay :)

Anonymous

Had to install the python-language-server

@Blue cool :-)

Anonymous

7:34 AM

@JohnRennie Just dowloaded Visual Studio (the professional 2017 version). For C/C++ programming which one to install "Desktop Development with C++" ?

Anonymous

user image

Yes, you only need the "Desktop development ..." option. You can always add other options later if you need them.
Why did you download the Pro version when the Community edition is free? Or does your university provide a Pro licence?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie It actually didn't mention anything about which one is free, here

Anonymous

Should I get the Community instead?

Anonymous

No, our university doesn't provide any license

7:37 AM

See here

Though actually I suspect it's the same installer and it installs the Community Edition unless you provide a licence ...

Anonymous

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Anonymous

Alright...done

Anonymous

I'm selecting the Desktop option...

Anonymous

wtf...it is 6.25 GB!

Anonymous

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Anonymous

7:40 AM

Which options do I select here? @JohnRennie

Anonymous

I just need support for C/C++ code. Nothing more

As I recall the only extra option I chose was "C++/CLI support". I think that gives you the ability to compile from the command line,. which can be useful for compiling other people's code.

Anonymous

That reduces it to 2.02 GB :P

Anonymous

Done!

Anonymous

Downloading now

7:53 AM

Hi!

@Qmechanic Hi, In which field of Theoretical Physics do you work in?

Anonymous

@SwapnilDas QMech is a shady AI who knows and works in every field of TP that mankind ever treaded.

Who is not an AI around these parts?

Anonymous

Duh, only ACM and QMech are AIs. Others are petty mortals

@Blue JR is a petty mortal? Don't stir the broth too much. :P

8:09 AM

mornin

Anonymous

user image

Anonymous

@JohnRennie What to do next? How do I execute the code?

Anonymous

I'm not even sure this is the right way to do it

Anonymous

I created an empty .txt file and wrote the code in it

Anonymous

And then changed extension to .c

8:17 AM

Typically you start by creating a new project. VS will ask for the directory and it will create the directory and the makefiles etc.

Then you add a C/C++ file and type in your code.

To run it click the debug menu and choose Run from there. You can run it in the debugger or not as you choose.

Hard core VS users just press F5 to run in the debugger or ctrl-F5 to run without the debugger.

Anonymous

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Anonymous

I get this error when I try to open a New Project (empty) in Desktop

Hmm, something has gone wrong with the install then. I've just tried creating a new empty project on the Desktop and it worked just fine.

user228700

::Runs in, gesticulating wildly, in celebration::

user image

@Blue like so?

@Kaumudi.H EXAMS ARE OVER!!! :-)

user228700

8:24 AM

YES!! :-)

user228700

I'm going hooome!

user228700

16 hours ago, by John Rennie

user image

user228700

Sausage pizza?

@Kaumudi.H Yes. It was deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelicious :-)

Anonymous

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Anonymous

8:27 AM

I made the folder manually on Desktop

Anonymous

And created the cpp file like you said

user228700

@JohnRennie Cool! :-) Dyou remember the order of pizza and garlic breadsticks that I had made the other day, but could not place because the website was offline?

Anonymous

But then....it's showing a new error :/

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Great! :)

user228700

@Blue :-) I see you're having fun.

8:28 AM

@Kaumudi.H Yes ... ?

user228700

Well, I ordered it today!! :-)

@Blue what does the Tests Output Pane show?

@Kaumudi.H Enjoy your sausageless pizza! When are you leaving for Chennai?

user228700

@JohnRennie :-) My train is in 4 hours, but we're leaving in another hour and a half, I think. I haven't even started packing, lol.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Which one is the test output pane? I can't see the output anywhere

Anonymous

[18-12-2017 01:56:01 PM Error] Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
[18-12-2017 01:56:01 PM Informational] ------ Load Playlist started ------
[18-12-2017 01:56:01 PM Informational] ========== Load Playlist finished (0:00:00.0120106) ==========
[18-12-2017 01:59:34 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.
[18-12-2017 02:00:16 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.
[18-12-2017 02:01:05 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.
[18-12-2017 02:03:36 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.

Anonymous

8:34 AM

Found it

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Wait, I need to download gcc?

No, you don't need to download gcc

I'd guess something has got a bit screwed with the install.

I need to work for half an hour or so now.

Anonymous

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Anonymous

@JohnRennie Sure, I'll try something meanwhile

@Blue Try creating a new project, but instead of Empty Project choose Console Application. That is after all what you are creating.

Anonymous

8:40 AM

Alright, trying

Anonymous

@JohnRennie I reinstalled the whole VS application after deleting it. And then tried creating Console Application. But it still shows the same error.

Anonymous

Project 'ConsoleApplication1' could not be loaded because it's missing install components. To fix this launch Visual Studio setup with the following selections:
Microsoft.VisualStudio.Component.VC.Tools.x86.x64

Anonymous

Anyway, we can discuss once you get back from work

10:16 AM

@Blue you around?

Anonymous

10:34 AM

@JohnRennie I am now :)

It turns out the C++/CLI isn't necessary after all, though it shouldn't be causing any problems.

Anyhow shall we go check the install now?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie In the reinstall I didn't include that option

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Okay

@vzn I see you have returned :P

OK. Press Windows-R and run control

Anonymous

10:35 AM

done

Then in Control Panel click Program,s and Features

Anonymous

done

Then select Microsoft Visual Studio Installer and click Change

user image

Anonymous

Yup it's open

Delete system 32

10:38 AM

If you click the More link then select Modify you should get:

user image

Anonymous

@0celo7 I had done that once...to convince my father to buy a new laptop....

Anonymous

Around 7-8 years ago

Anonymous

@JohnRennie There's only ""Repair" and "Uninstall"

hang on ...

mum's on the phone ...

Anonymous

Sure

10:41 AM

@Blue that’s immoral

Anonymous

@0celo7 I was immoral back then

morality => mortality

always be immoral

@Blue then there's definitely something wrong ...

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Wait, there's Modify option outside "More.."

Anonymous

I think that's it

10:44 AM

Ah :-)

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Yeah, I get that

@Blue It looks the same as in my image?

Anonymous

user image

Anonymous

I just downloaded the core during reinstall

Ok. I'm not sure what the core includes.

Anonymous

10:52 AM

Any idea what exception from HRESULT mean?

Anonymous

That's what it shows during project creation

Anonymous

Project 'TestConsole' could not be loaded because it's missing install components. To fix this launch Visual Studio setup with the following selections:
Microsoft.VisualStudio.Component.VC.Tools.x86.x64

Anonymous

How do you "launch" VS using that selection? @JohnRennie

Anonymous

I think I need to instal the VC toolset

I would uninstall.

Then restart then delete C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio just to make sure it's all gone.

Then do a fresh install selecting the "Desktop development with C++" as before and leave all the options at the defaults.

Anonymous

10:57 AM

Alright, I'll try that! But one question: Is VS really worth it? It takes up 6GB of space if I install all the toolkits it recommends, or should I continue with some other IDE?

Then restart, just to make sure, then try running VS.

If you need to do C++ development then VS is the best IDE there is.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Ah, I see. Okay, I'll reinstall it then

Anonymous

Thanks

I've used it for working on Kodi, which has millions of lines of code (I forget exactly how many millions :-)

Anonymous

Haha

Anonymous

11:15 AM

Reinstall done. Now it can create new projects fortunately! But:

Anonymous

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Anonymous

@JohnRennie

If you want I can have a look. You'll need to (temporarily) install TeamViewer ...

download.teamviewer.com/download/TeamViewer_Setup.exe

Anonymous

Alright!

Anonymous

Basic installation?

11:19 AM

@Blue remind me what the options are ...

Anonymous

user image

Ah, yes, basic is fine, or if you choose Run only it won't install anything. It will just run a temporary copy to allow me to connect.

You also need to choose Personal use

yo

When TeamViewer starts you need to mail me your ID and password on Facebook. If you post them here you'll be allowing anyone to connect :-)

11:35 AM

rennie

teach these

nuclear reactions

me

on tw

Anonymous

@JohnRennie On from my phone now

Anonymous

You can continue

Cool, let me bring up VS

john

u seem like

refused it

So File/New project

Anonymous

11:36 AM

Ok

And I'm going to choose the console app

Anonymous

Ok

All I need to do is choose the name, then when I click OK it will create the project and create a template C++ file.

Anonymous

Right I see the c++ file

To compile choose Build/Build solution or use VS hackers just use the shortcut ctrl-shift-B

11:38 AM

lol

I'm c++

@Fiv hi Fiv, I'll get back to in a moment. I'm just talking someone through their first VS2017 project.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Right. But doesn't that throw exceptions ?

@Blue there's a load of junk in the output window that you can ignore.

Anonymous

Alright

What you want is the output from the build step. Watch what I select now ...

11:39 AM

@JohnRennie Thanks, I'm waiting then.

@Blue OK?

Anonymous

Mmm...You select Build

Anonymous

In the output section

Anonymous

Ok

The Build windows shows the results of the build. In this case successful.

Anonymous

11:41 AM

Aha!

Anonymous

What if we print something now ?

You don't need the Test window open. I wonder how we close it ...

@Blue Do you want to add some code or shall I?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie I'm adding..one sec

Succeeded! :-)

Anonymous

Ah. Where is the Hello getting printed ?

11:43 AM

If you run it then the console will just flash up and disappear again.

You can add a scanf or gets or something to keep the console open ...

Anonymous

How to run ? From Test?

To run it choose Debug/Start without debugging or just press ctrl-F5

@Blue after you make a change you need to build the project again

It's a compiler not an interpreter like Python.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Oh. Doing that!

OK, it's telling you not to use scanf

The build failed because scanf is a deprecated function.

Anonymous

Lol. gets will work ?

11:47 AM

There's an option somewhere to tell it not to be so fussy ...

Use getchar. That's safe.

@JohnRennie Do you think significant digits is important for atomic calculations?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Does it look okay now ?

Looks fine to me.

Anonymous

Yahoooo :D

When you press a key getchar will return and the app will exit so the console will close.

Anonymous

11:51 AM

Yep. Done!

One last comment re header files

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Okay ?

VS uses it's own header stdafx.h that includes all the usual headers

So you don't need <stdio.h>

(or at least I don't think so)

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Even for C files ?

Yes

Anonymous

11:52 AM

For C++ files I think it adds automatically

Anonymous

Got it though

Anonymous

Well, thank you so much :P

Shall I show you how to use the debugger?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Yes !

Just go to the Debug menu and choose Step into

Anonymous

11:54 AM

Ok

Do you want to do the honours?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Ah, what's that?

I mean you click on the menu

Anonymous

Clicked on Step Into

Ok now you're debugging

Anonymous

11:56 AM

Umm, how ?

To step forward one line select Debug/step over or it's quicker to press F10

That executes your app one line at a time

Anonymous

Got it !

Anonymous

Yay!!

When you F10'd at the return line it returned you to the bit of the run time library that called main

This is rarely useful :-)

More useful is setting breakpoints.

Let me quickly add some lines ...

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Gotcha :)

Prathyush Poduval

11:59 AM

@JohnRennie so scanfs not being used anymore, that's wonderful to know.......

@JohnRennie Are you busy?

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