The h Bar

Sir Cumference

00:04

Let me just drop a reminder in here: Be Nice. No matter who it is, whether you like them or not, it is a requirement of chat that everyone is nice to everyone else. Professional respect is a great thing.

Huh, so this is the most starred post on the chat, according to a script I wrote.

I was hoping for something funnier, so this kind of seems like a waste of time...

Mithrandir24601

@SirCumference Yeah, I was flicking through the starred posts on Worldbuilding earlier (nowhere near as many as on here) and the few highest ones are all mod posts either reminding people something similar or admin stuff (e.g. so-and-so got elected as a mod)

0celo7

I did not star that btw

I want to downvote it, in fact

Hail Satan

Sir Cumference

@DanielSank I'd be content with just the Nice Answer badge, so I can get an astronomy hat...

ACuriousMind

@SirCumference Just one star less:

Jul 7 at 20:07, by dmckee

Hard for things to be going much better: I'm a father as of today.

ArtOfCode

@SirCumference /me abuses mod edit powers to fix an 18-month-old typo

Mithrandir24601

00:18

@ArtOfCode There's got to be a hat for that, surely :P

Sir Cumference

@ArtOfCode What typo?

ArtOfCode

@SirCumference "is is"

s/is/it/

Sir Cumference

@ArtOfCode Ah

ZeroTheHero

01:16

Allo... Anyone here can recommend a good editor for .bib files on a Mac?

ooolb

01:49

@ACuriousMind our love is a farce

dmckee

02:22

@ZeroTheHero I use emacs. But then I use emacs for a lot of things.

There is a bibtex mode, so you get highlighting, and it can insert blank entries, though I rarely bother.

Physics Meta

03:30

0

Q: Renaming visible-light?

I've noticed the visible-light tag has a tendency to be incorrectly applied in cases where the OP happened to have visible light in mind when they asked the question, but they are really asking about electromagnetic radiation in general. (recent example, and there are many other visible-light que...

DanielSank

04:22

Hi everybody

@ZeroTheHero vim

That's sort of a joke

ZeroTheHero

@dmckee That's an interesting suggestion. I used emacs many years ago and I quite liked it. I find BibDesk terribly frustrating.

@DanielSank wow... vim is still out there? That must go back like 25 years.

ACuriousMind

Vim and emace both still exist and are still locked in a holy war of text editors ;)

ZeroTheHero

The Crusades lasted 200yrs or so.

I am under pressure to convert to systematically using bibtex files...

DanielSank

05:22

@ZeroTheHero yeah I write all my Python and TeX with vim.

Vim is absolutely amazing. The basic stuff and plugins make editing code so easy and fast.

Anonymous

06:04

@JohnRennie Hi, you there? I installed this autocomplete package (atom.io/packages/autocomplete-python) on the Atom editor but but I'm not sure how to activate it

John Rennie

@Blue morning

Anonymous

I have the Scripts package already installed

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Good morning :)

John Rennie

Is that Windows or Ubuntu?

Anonymous

I'm on Windows currently

Anonymous

06:06

Earlier I just used to execute the .py files from cmd

Anonymous

But that autocompletion stuff is useful to have

Anonymous

I think Atom works for Ubuntu too, got to try

John Rennie

I've no idea I'm afraid. I had never even heard of the Atom editor.

Prathyush Poduval

@Blue Is that an external editor?

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval It's just a text editor

Anonymous

06:09

@JohnRennie Oops. Which IDE do you use?

Prathyush Poduval

Oh okay

John Rennie

@Blue I use an editor called Codewright that is probably older than you are :-)

Anonymous

Hehe. Actually Atom is useful because I can sync it with Github

John Rennie

For Python I don't use an IDE because I don't write much Python. For C++ I use Visual Studio.

Prathyush Poduval

I prefer the simplicity of IDLE, you're not overloaded with lots of buttons and other shitz

Anonymous

06:11

@PrathyushPoduval IDLE is awfully restricting. It's useful for beginners

Prathyush Poduval

restricting in what sense? I never had any trouble with it

Anonymous

But doesn't offer syntax checking or autocompletion like an IDE should

Prathyush Poduval

I didn't want those features. They just clutter the screen for me

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Heh...

Prathyush Poduval

Notepadd++ also has them, i use it for c++

The black backgroud also strains me eyes

Anonymous

06:15

It seems I need to install Kite first

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Also IDLE can't manage to sync your Github projects, nor can you navigate between the Python files on your system from within IDLE

Anonymous

It is used normally to teach beginners. No professional would use it

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval You can always change background color

Prathyush Poduval

I haven't started using githuh yet (I think I should soon :P) why not use file explorer for navigating?

@Blue ah yeah, I never tried that out :P

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Using file explorer to navigate is a pain in the ass

Prathyush Poduval

06:20

I have vs code installed, I'll try it out there and see if I can adjust to it

Anonymous

Ah, I heard of vs code

Prathyush Poduval

@Blue I usually have the important folders opened while I'm writing my code so I can navigate it easily while writing

Anonymous

This looks useful: kite.com

Prathyush Poduval

What do you need that for now?🧐

John Rennie

@Blue I've been programming since well before you were born, and I don't use an IDE. Well, I do use VS but I don't use many of the IDE features. I use GIT from a command line.

I'm not saying this is the right way to code. I'm just saying it is one way to code.

Anonymous

06:31

@JohnRennie I was talking about IDLE...you probably don't use IDLE to code, do you?

John Rennie

I don't know what IDLE is ...

Prathyush Poduval

As long as I can run my code from the editor, I'm fine

John Rennie

IDLE

IDLE (Integrated DeveLopment Environment or Integrated Development and Learning Environment) is an integrated development environment for Python, which has been bundled with the default implementation of the language since 1.5.2b1. It is packaged as an optional part of the Python packaging with many Linux distributions. It is completely written in Python and the Tkinter GUI toolkit (wrapper functions for Tcl/Tk). IDLE is intended to be a simple IDE and suitable for beginners, especially in an educational environment. To that end, it is cross-platform, and avoids feature clutter. According to the...

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Huh...it comes built in with Python...

Prathyush Poduval

@JohnRennie python editor which comes with python

John Rennie

06:32

Presumably that's what you mean ...

Prathyush Poduval

Yeah

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Right. That's an in-built crude editor that comes with the Python 3 install. You surely don't use that. :P

John Rennie

I use a separate text editor and run the program from the command line.

Anonymous

I was telling Pratyush why IDLE is awfully restricting

Anonymous

Hehe

Anonymous

06:34

@JohnRennie I used to do the same. But it is very useful to have autocompletion and function documentations (pop up) when you are writing programs

John Rennie

But as I mentioned earlier I don't do much Python work. The longest app I've written in Python is only a few thousand lines.

@Blue I must admit that when I'm doing hard core C++ hackery I find it enormously helpful that VS shows me class methods etc as I'm typing :-)

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Yeah, that's the thing! :)

John Rennie

If I were writing similarly sized apps in Python then yes I'd also want those facilities.

Prathyush Poduval

Maybe that explains the awful amount of googling I do while writing code......

Anonymous

@PrathyushPoduval Start using a real IDE :P

Ihsan

06:37

@Blue Like PyCharm..

Anonymous

@Ihsan Yup. PyCharm had some issues on my machine though....

Anonymous

I'll try to install it again

Ihsan

@Blue what issue ??

Anonymous

@Ihsan Couldn't find the interpreter even though it was in the same folder

Ihsan

@Blue have you follow this jetbrains.com/help/pycharm/configuring-python-interpreter.html

Anonymous

06:40

I did. It wasn't working. I'll try again. later

Ihsan

well good luck..

Anonymous

07:18

Phew phew...finally made Kite work (integrated with Atom).

Anonymous

All documentations pop up immediately along with autocomplete..yay :)

Anonymous

Had to install the python-language-server

John Rennie

@Blue cool :-)

Anonymous

07:34

@JohnRennie Just dowloaded Visual Studio (the professional 2017 version). For C/C++ programming which one to install "Desktop Development with C++" ?

Anonymous

John Rennie

Yes, you only need the "Desktop development ..." option. You can always add other options later if you need them.
Why did you download the Pro version when the Community edition is free? Or does your university provide a Pro licence?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie It actually didn't mention anything about which one is free, here

Anonymous

Should I get the Community instead?

Anonymous

No, our university doesn't provide any license

John Rennie

07:37

See here

Though actually I suspect it's the same installer and it installs the Community Edition unless you provide a licence ...

Anonymous

Alright...done

Anonymous

I'm selecting the Desktop option...

Anonymous

wtf...it is 6.25 GB!

Anonymous

07:40

Which options do I select here? @JohnRennie

Anonymous

I just need support for C/C++ code. Nothing more

John Rennie

As I recall the only extra option I chose was "C++/CLI support". I think that gives you the ability to compile from the command line,. which can be useful for compiling other people's code.

Anonymous

That reduces it to 2.02 GB :P

Anonymous

Done!

Anonymous

Downloading now

Swapnil Das

07:53

Hi!

@Qmechanic Hi, In which field of Theoretical Physics do you work in?

Anonymous

@SwapnilDas QMech is a shady AI who knows and works in every field of TP that mankind ever treaded.

Sid

Who is not an AI around these parts?

Anonymous

Duh, only ACM and QMech are AIs. Others are petty mortals

Sid

@Blue JR is a petty mortal? Don't stir the broth too much. :P

Slereah

08:09

mornin

Anonymous

@JohnRennie What to do next? How do I execute the code?

Anonymous

I'm not even sure this is the right way to do it

Anonymous

I created an empty .txt file and wrote the code in it

Anonymous

And then changed extension to .c

John Rennie

08:17

Typically you start by creating a new project. VS will ask for the directory and it will create the directory and the makefiles etc.

Then you add a C/C++ file and type in your code.

To run it click the debug menu and choose Run from there. You can run it in the debugger or not as you choose.

Hard core VS users just press F5 to run in the debugger or ctrl-F5 to run without the debugger.

Anonymous

I get this error when I try to open a New Project (empty) in Desktop

John Rennie

Hmm, something has gone wrong with the install then. I've just tried creating a new empty project on the Desktop and it worked just fine.

user228700

::Runs in, gesticulating wildly, in celebration::

John Rennie

@Blue like so?

@Kaumudi.H EXAMS ARE OVER!!! :-)

user228700

08:24

YES!! :-)

user228700

I'm going hooome!

user228700

16 hours ago, by John Rennie

user228700

Sausage pizza?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H Yes. It was deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelicious :-)

Anonymous

08:27

I made the folder manually on Desktop

Anonymous

And created the cpp file like you said

user228700

@JohnRennie Cool! :-) Dyou remember the order of pizza and garlic breadsticks that I had made the other day, but could not place because the website was offline?

Anonymous

But then....it's showing a new error :/

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Great! :)

user228700

@Blue :-) I see you're having fun.

John Rennie

08:28

@Kaumudi.H Yes ... ?

user228700

Well, I ordered it today!! :-)

John Rennie

@Blue what does the Tests Output Pane show?

@Kaumudi.H Enjoy your sausageless pizza! When are you leaving for Chennai?

user228700

@JohnRennie :-) My train is in 4 hours, but we're leaving in another hour and a half, I think. I haven't even started packing, lol.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Which one is the test output pane? I can't see the output anywhere

Anonymous

[18-12-2017 01:56:01 PM Error] Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
[18-12-2017 01:56:01 PM Informational] ------ Load Playlist started ------
[18-12-2017 01:56:01 PM Informational] ========== Load Playlist finished (0:00:00.0120106) ==========
[18-12-2017 01:59:34 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.
[18-12-2017 02:00:16 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.
[18-12-2017 02:01:05 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.
[18-12-2017 02:03:36 PM Warning] The build was canceled or Failed.

Anonymous

08:34

Found it

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Wait, I need to download gcc?

John Rennie

No, you don't need to download gcc

I'd guess something has got a bit screwed with the install.

I need to work for half an hour or so now.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Sure, I'll try something meanwhile

John Rennie

@Blue Try creating a new project, but instead of Empty Project choose Console Application. That is after all what you are creating.

Anonymous

08:40

Alright, trying

Anonymous

@JohnRennie I reinstalled the whole VS application after deleting it. And then tried creating Console Application. But it still shows the same error.

Anonymous

Project 'ConsoleApplication1' could not be loaded because it's missing install components. To fix this launch Visual Studio setup with the following selections:
Microsoft.VisualStudio.Component.VC.Tools.x86.x64

Anonymous

Anyway, we can discuss once you get back from work

John Rennie

10:16

@Blue you around?

Anonymous

10:34

@JohnRennie I am now :)

John Rennie

It turns out the C++/CLI isn't necessary after all, though it shouldn't be causing any problems.

Anyhow shall we go check the install now?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie In the reinstall I didn't include that option

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Okay

Balarka Sen

@vzn I see you have returned :P

John Rennie

OK. Press Windows-R and run control

Anonymous

10:35

done

John Rennie

Then in Control Panel click Program,s and Features

Anonymous

done

John Rennie

Then select Microsoft Visual Studio Installer and click Change

Anonymous

Yup it's open

0celo7

Delete system 32

John Rennie

10:38

If you click the More link then select Modify you should get:

Anonymous

@0celo7 I had done that once...to convince my father to buy a new laptop....

Anonymous

Around 7-8 years ago

Anonymous

@JohnRennie There's only ""Repair" and "Uninstall"

John Rennie

hang on ...

mum's on the phone ...

Anonymous

Sure

0celo7

10:41

@Blue that’s immoral

Anonymous

@0celo7 I was immoral back then

Balarka Sen

morality => mortality

always be immoral

John Rennie

@Blue then there's definitely something wrong ...

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Wait, there's Modify option outside "More.."

Anonymous

I think that's it

John Rennie

10:44

Ah :-)

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Yeah, I get that

John Rennie

@Blue It looks the same as in my image?

Anonymous

I just downloaded the core during reinstall

John Rennie

Ok. I'm not sure what the core includes.

Anonymous

10:52

Any idea what exception from HRESULT mean?

Anonymous

That's what it shows during project creation

Anonymous

Project 'TestConsole' could not be loaded because it's missing install components. To fix this launch Visual Studio setup with the following selections:
Microsoft.VisualStudio.Component.VC.Tools.x86.x64

Anonymous

How do you "launch" VS using that selection? @JohnRennie

Anonymous

I think I need to instal the VC toolset

John Rennie

I would uninstall.

Then restart then delete C:\Program Files (x86)\Microsoft Visual Studio just to make sure it's all gone.

Then do a fresh install selecting the "Desktop development with C++" as before and leave all the options at the defaults.

Anonymous

10:57

Alright, I'll try that! But one question: Is VS really worth it? It takes up 6GB of space if I install all the toolkits it recommends, or should I continue with some other IDE?

John Rennie

Then restart, just to make sure, then try running VS.

If you need to do C++ development then VS is the best IDE there is.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Ah, I see. Okay, I'll reinstall it then

Anonymous

Thanks

John Rennie

I've used it for working on Kodi, which has millions of lines of code (I forget exactly how many millions :-)

Anonymous

Haha

Anonymous

11:15

Reinstall done. Now it can create new projects fortunately! But:

Anonymous

@JohnRennie

John Rennie

If you want I can have a look. You'll need to (temporarily) install TeamViewer ...

download.teamviewer.com/download/TeamViewer_Setup.exe

Anonymous

Alright!

Anonymous

Basic installation?

John Rennie

11:19

@Blue remind me what the options are ...

Anonymous

John Rennie

Ah, yes, basic is fine, or if you choose Run only it won't install anything. It will just run a temporary copy to allow me to connect.

You also need to choose Personal use

Busi

yo

John Rennie

When TeamViewer starts you need to mail me your ID and password on Facebook. If you post them here you'll be allowing anyone to connect :-)

Fiv

11:35

rennie

teach these

nuclear reactions

me

on tw

Anonymous

@JohnRennie On from my phone now

Anonymous

You can continue

John Rennie

Cool, let me bring up VS

Fiv

john

u seem like

refused it

John Rennie

So File/New project

Anonymous

11:36

Ok

John Rennie

And I'm going to choose the console app

Anonymous

Ok

John Rennie

All I need to do is choose the name, then when I click OK it will create the project and create a template C++ file.

Anonymous

Right I see the c++ file

John Rennie

To compile choose Build/Build solution or use VS hackers just use the shortcut ctrl-shift-B

Fiv

11:38

lol

I'm c++

John Rennie

@Fiv hi Fiv, I'll get back to in a moment. I'm just talking someone through their first VS2017 project.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Right. But doesn't that throw exceptions ?

John Rennie

@Blue there's a load of junk in the output window that you can ignore.

Anonymous

Alright

John Rennie

What you want is the output from the build step. Watch what I select now ...

Fiv

11:39

@JohnRennie Thanks, I'm waiting then.

John Rennie

@Blue OK?

Anonymous

Mmm...You select Build

Anonymous

In the output section

Anonymous

Ok

John Rennie

The Build windows shows the results of the build. In this case successful.

Anonymous

11:41

Aha!

Anonymous

What if we print something now ?

John Rennie

You don't need the Test window open. I wonder how we close it ...

@Blue Do you want to add some code or shall I?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie I'm adding..one sec

John Rennie

Succeeded! :-)

Anonymous

Ah. Where is the Hello getting printed ?

John Rennie

11:43

If you run it then the console will just flash up and disappear again.

You can add a scanf or gets or something to keep the console open ...

Anonymous

How to run ? From Test?

John Rennie

To run it choose Debug/Start without debugging or just press ctrl-F5

@Blue after you make a change you need to build the project again

It's a compiler not an interpreter like Python.

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Oh. Doing that!

John Rennie

OK, it's telling you not to use scanf

The build failed because scanf is a deprecated function.

Anonymous

Lol. gets will work ?

John Rennie

11:47

There's an option somewhere to tell it not to be so fussy ...

Use getchar. That's safe.

Fiv

@JohnRennie Do you think significant digits is important for atomic calculations?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Does it look okay now ?

John Rennie

Looks fine to me.

Anonymous

Yahoooo :D

John Rennie

When you press a key getchar will return and the app will exit so the console will close.

Anonymous

11:51

Yep. Done!

John Rennie

One last comment re header files

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Okay ?

John Rennie

VS uses it's own header stdafx.h that includes all the usual headers

So you don't need <stdio.h>

(or at least I don't think so)

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Even for C files ?

John Rennie

Yes

Anonymous

11:52

For C++ files I think it adds automatically

Anonymous

Got it though

Anonymous

Well, thank you so much :P

John Rennie

Shall I show you how to use the debugger?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Yes !

John Rennie

Just go to the Debug menu and choose Step into

Anonymous

11:54

Ok

John Rennie

Do you want to do the honours?

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Ah, what's that?

John Rennie

I mean you click on the menu

Anonymous

Clicked on Step Into

John Rennie

Ok now you're debugging

Anonymous

11:56

Umm, how ?

John Rennie

To step forward one line select Debug/step over or it's quicker to press F10

That executes your app one line at a time

Anonymous

Got it !

Anonymous

Yay!!

John Rennie

When you F10'd at the return line it returned you to the bit of the run time library that called main

This is rarely useful :-)

More useful is setting breakpoints.

Let me quickly add some lines ...

Anonymous

@JohnRennie Gotcha :)

Prathyush Poduval

11:59

@JohnRennie so scanfs not being used anymore, that's wonderful to know.......

Fiv

@JohnRennie Are you busy?

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