well, it's a physics book

You don't have to read everything in one go

gotta power through it

to get to Wald

I want to learn about the Hawking microwaves

@Slereah Wonder if this book will teach me wtf a spinor is

spinors you go through phases of thinking you finally understand what a spinor is

it's a photon in a double helix Dirac belt configuration

going round and round

hi guys, hey 0ce wondering what does your new av signify?

toot toot

culture, apparently

@vzn I'm from the hood, it reps my culture

trapin on the corner and all that

At some point, you might think that the spin group is the double cover of the rotation group

But that's a lie

what, it is?

Because the rotation group in (1,1) is just $\Bbb R$

(1,1)?

1+1D

well, that's the Lorentz rotation group

ah its an album cover isnt it? can see the "parental advisory" at bottom. now just have to figure out which album

But there are still spinors

who knows about that one

@vzn culture

ah ok google helps, more google fu exercise en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_(Migos_album) ... saw 2chainz in concert opening for riri once... noize! o_O

The real spinor shit requires you to break out the Clifford algebra

That way you can do it even without orientability

@0celo7 (welcome back...) youre a legend, in your own mind time :P ... speaking of "culture"...

Please

you think that's bad?

Think about when duffield comes back

lol... 0celo7 alone with himself must indeed be "brutal torture" :P

@0celo7 matrix + alex jones refs? luv it! spking of politics, friend of trump...

@Slereah Without orientability I never know which way to turn

@rob hey btw nice ideas/ insight on bells thm/ CHSH. if you can get under DSs skin you know youre on the right track :P did you study it once? seems a lot of ppl who have heard of bells thm havent heard of CHSH...

@Slereah Wait, what happened to JD?

He's banned

How long?

Oh jeez

What'd he do?

DONT TALK ABOUT IT

woah

On the other habd

You can get banned

Not my problem

@0celo7 Thanks best bud...

I'm not your bud.

._.

@SirCumference Would you like to have a conversation about users who aren't currently welcome in the chat room?

@0celo7 Who are you then?

Genuine question --- not anything sneaky.

@rob Uh, um...no...?

@SirCumference Good. Because there's not much that I can say, and asking me puts me in an uncomfortable place. Thanks.

@rob Yes.

@0celo7 s/good/bad

You know I do.

@rob What does that mean?

@0celo7 Some unix slang, vi or awk or both, for substitution. Same reply to you as to @SirCumference, except for the first word.

@rob Wha?

What?

Perhaps it's too late in the evening for me to try to be clever :-)

Whether you want to have a conversation about it or not: there's not much that I can say, and asking me puts me in an uncomfortable spot.

@rob Ah c'mon, we're all friends here

And what's more: speculation is how strange rumors get started.

@SirCumference I guess that's true. It's just you, me, everyone on StackExchange, and the Wayback Machine.

@rob Yep. It's pretty private here. /s

I can't find Frank Tipler's thesis online

@Slereah you try looking it up?

yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said that

@Slereah Hmm, you try switching up the words?

no, because then that wouldn't be the title

@Slereah Here

adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1976PhDT........61T

@0celo7 know unix syntax and dont understand it myself...

From Wikipedia's references on his article

@SirCumference I've been there

it doesn't actually contain it

wow, people actually used to do theses on causality?

in America?

@Slereah Hmm...well it's not on arXiv

That combination of constraints --- that I can't say very much that's informative about moderator actions, either to give new information or to substantiate/refute speculation --- is my basic reason for politely asking that we drop discussions about who's permitted in the chat room and who isn't.

@SirCumference all great scientific societies have scapegoats/ outcasts. was just telling a teenager about this story en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus o_O

@Slereah There wasn't an "online" in 1976. There are paper copies at the UM library. Interlibrary loan might help you out.

@rob Don't be silly

@rob i don't have a library :(

I can find Euclid on the web

so there was an internet in BC times

@vzn Huh?

google books seems to have a copy

@SirCumference are you a student? physics? what country?

but it's not available

@rob Do you remember circuit superposition?

@vzn What are you talking about?

@Slereah inis.iaea.org/search/…

@Slereah Some public libraries participate in interlibrary loan, too. You might not be able to get a physical copy but some library might have a PDF already.

@Slereah Especially if Google Books has scanned it.

@Slereah Librarians love helping people track stuff down --- even public librarians.

@SirCumference also doesn't contain the paper

@rob Weirdos.

@0celo7 I'm about to get back to grading papers and ignoring you lot.

@Slereah OK, it's obviously not online. Go back to Google Books and click "Find in a library"

@0celo7 Says the man on the chat room for a "perhaps you can help me" website.

@rob nooooo

@rob fine, we'll figure out QM measurement problem without you... & maybe come up with creative names for the chat room to shoot down :P

@rob Hmm?

Well

google book has it scanned

I know because I searched for keywords in it

Where else can I find people who like stupid math and physics things?

And it gave results

But I can't access the scanned version

@Slereah Yeah, but there's no buy link

example :

books.google.fr/books/…

lol what

Just click "Find in a library" and get a copy in a nearby library

@Slereah what does a C with a pirate hook on the bottom mean?

@0celo7 How about stupid people who like math and physics things?

@SirCumference Oh, sorry. I forgot about you there.

@0celo7 That's a cedilla

@0celo7 Wha-oh goddammit, walked into that...

Sure did.

@Slereah what does it do?

ç sounds like s

why not just make it s?

@0celo7 It's French

I know, that's why I asked the French guy

that's like if I asked you why German has...well, I actually don't know any German

What?

I am German.

@0celo7 Because L'Acadèmie Français would have to change their stationary.

@0celo7 I know.

Whatever

If you asked me what ß is I could tell you!

Because I speak German!

Because language reforms are hard to do

@0celo7 That's because you're a sharp fella

@0celo7 Okay, what's that curly B?

@rob :P

@SirCumference It's a misprinted B.

Oh wait, rob is here

No trolling

@SirCumference It's an 's' sound

@0celo7 #musiciansdontsayhashtag

The s in German is usually a z

But the ß is always an s

it gets confusing when the s is an s

and then there's ss too

which is always an s

._.

so ss vs. ß is a long debate

and then there's dass vs. das

maybe it used to be spelled da∫

oh wow that is that

Help I made a new symbol

@0celo7 Integral?

∫da

$∫$

That is the integral symbol, yes

Oh neat, LaTeX actually makes that an integral

Because originally, the integral sign was just a big S

for "sum"

@Slereah I'm pretty sure it's a letter in some alphabet

No, MathJax does

LaTeX will give an error IIRC

@0celo7 Just MathJax?

Huh, that's weird

@0celo7 LaTeX does it with some input encoding magic

@Slereah Is that so?

@rob you know I always thought you were british

So where does the partial symbol come from?

@0celo7 If you run LaTeXiT for MacOS, it's in the preamble.

@rob was T. Handler a prof here back when you were here?

has anyone seen "hidden figures"? burning up the box office dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4201852/…

@rob What's LaTeXiT?

@0celo7 Yeah, I had QM from Handler and some classmates did research with him.

@rob 400 or 500 QM?

@0celo7 Undergrad. For grad I had Barnes, who I think has mostly or completely moved on from the department.

I had him for EM and he said some pretty asinine things

I'm not a fan of the man

@0celo7 Yep, that's him.

lol

my favorite was "the speed of light is not a fundamental constant"

He said $\mu_0$ and $\epsilon_0$ are fundamental

@0celo7 hmmm, he might have had a point.

When I pointed out that any massless particle moves at $c$ he told me "that's math, not physics"

Well the fundamental constants are $c$ and $\alpha$

@vzn No, he really didn't.

Obviously

@0celo7 He's clever enough to have a sophisticated argument behind a statement like that, but I'm not familiar with it.

@0celo7 Tell him about gravitational waves

@rob I bet you he wanted to shock a bunch of sophomores and then was challenged and had to double down

@Slereah The fine structure constant fixes $c$ or $\epsilon_0$, your choice, but $\mu_0$ is still free.

@0celo7 dont know him. who are we talking about? but anyway maybe he was working from a fluid dynamics analogy. have wondered similar stuff.

He said that I couldn't "prove gluons move at the speed of light"

$\mu_0$ is defined by $c$ and $\epsilon_0$

$\mu_0$ is the better constant because it's the Yang-Mills coupling, I think.

modulo some stuff

@vzn A prof who teaches that gluons don't move at $c$

with ACM not here I can make such a claim unopposed

we have only measured 'c' on earth & wrt astronomy. and the existence of dark matter/ energy says there are big things about universe we dont understand. there is some (new) proposal that dark matter is related to spacetime warping etc...

@vzn The heck?

@rob Did he used to say that stupid Carnegie hall thing?

@0celo7 Did you bother to teach him?

@SirCumference Oh, Mr. "Don't Argue with Professors"

Also was he an electrical engineering dude

@SirCumference Well ... the gluon is only a reasonable degree of freedom within dense nuclear matter. The vacuum doesn't support gluon propogation at all. Another person I respect likes to say "the vacuum is a color superconductor" and has a speed-of-glue approach to it as well.

@0celo7 Well...well...

Trying to show that EE was the FUNDAMENTAL LAW

That's a bit too far

@Slereah I actually wrote a short report on LIGO for him for extra credit.

Saying "metric tensor" instead of "metric" isn't worth correcting

@0celo7 As in "how do you get to carnegie hall ... practice"?

@rob My blood is already boiling!

Ok you're a UTK grad :P

He also kept telling us to vote. I'm not sure for which party he wanted us to vote.

@0celo7 I performed at Carnegie Hall once before I went to UT, so I knew that stupid joke going in. It's plausible that I told it to him.

@0celo7 I don't know if he's allowed to tell you which party

@0celo7 He doesn't care how you vote. He wants you to vote.

In one of Tipler's paper, he says "the generic condition holds on $(M,g)$"

@SirCumference I had several profs straight up tell me Hillary was going to kill the country.

The hell is the generic condition

@Slereah Oh, you found it?

Crap, politics

No

Different paper

@rob delete delete delte

@0celo7 That's not politics, it's college experiences

A subject change is fine.

No feelings have been harmed.

@Slereah it's in HE

maybe

yep

handy HE

ah yes

...

Apparently it's a really shit condition

@rob what's Handler's research, anyway?

his website is too vague

@0celo7 He's a high-energy guy. I think mostly Fermilab stuff, even after most of that group started doing RHIC at Brookhaven.

Trump too is a high energy guy

@Slereah Flagged (not really)

@0celo7 Also flagged (not really)

@0celo7 Also neutrinos. The UT group was active in Kamiokande, SNO, etc. Handler was involved.

neutrinos

and he wants to tell me $c$ isn't fundamental

is that it? was I trolled?

(all right, that's enough)

@0celo7 I think that's probably a good summary, actually.

@SirCumference More than enough, thanks.

@rob that's so low energy.

A rather simple way to show that $c$ is more fundamental than the couple $\epsilon, \mu$ is to show that magnetic fields disappear in the limit $c \to \infty$

@0celo7 He's got to be seventy by now, right? People slow down.

yeah he's old

@rob He once told us "you know it's not so easy being on this side of the podium, I have to go home and write the exam"

Reminds me when my high school physics teacher told us that photons don't actually travel at $c$

on Wednesday we got a fucking template that he filled in

he didn't do any grading either

what the hell do profs do?

Only one season left and I will have watched all of Star Trek

@Slereah Hmmm, interesting. In that limit, do $E^2$ and $B^2$ still share equally in the energy density of an electromagnetic wave?

In the classical limit, only electric fields survive

@Slereah Do waves survive?

Which is why electric fields are galilean-invariant but not magnetic fields

No

@Slereah That is not an interesting limit.

@Slereah interesting

In the classical limits you only have Coulomb fields

@0celo7 Would you actually be willing to help me with cosmology?

I'm studying for a thermo test tomorrow and I don't understand water

so no

I have a bottle full of it

@0celo7 Man, water is a polar molecule with weak orientable bonds and like fifteen different phases. Water is complicated. Give me a nucleus any day.

According to democritus water is made of wet atoms

Seems pretty simple to me

I wonder what the oldest cited work is in my collection

Probably Riemann's original paper on geometry

unless Spivak cites the Elements

Well, I have a paper on Aristotelian physics

It cites Aristotle's books

arxiv.org/pdf/1312.4057.pdf

Hey guys, just wanted to know, I've heard people say that AdSCFT is a mean-field theory on the boundary conditions of space and that can imply gravity is an emergent phenomena

is this correct?

or rather, plausible as a hypothesis

or am i mishearing the argument

@0celo7 Pffh, and you said LIGO would never be useful

ok I understand water

what do you need

@0celo7 Big Rip

no clue

:(

that's not what I'd consider a basic

Halp

I have too many CTC papers

Currently the big GR folder is over 1300 papers

I'm really not sure what to make of that... does it just need really significant edits, or is it unsalvageable? Is it mainstream physics?

Just throwing those questions out there

I started to fix it and the user made a (damaging) edit, so I left a comment to that effect. If they go away for a while we might make it legible.

Since it's illegible I haven't tried to read it and so I don't know if it's worth saving, but it doesn't look promising.

@Slereah I've read like 100 pages of QM today

I'm about to die

@Skyler (was just about to cite this but no one present at time seemed interested...) Verlinde seems to be leading/ has been making headlines with this idea lately. gravity as an emergent property. dont know the details but have long theorized something like that myself, intend to delve more into it, link to dark matter seems esp compelling wired.com/2016/12/…

@Slereah Projective unitary representations

I'm feeling a tingle

I'm about to understand spinors

@obe I think I'm going to use that in my profile

"I am an infinite being that has taken on the identity of a physics student in space and time"

@SirCumference Are you the one who's been watching Star Trek, or is it someone else in here and that sort of language is just contagious?

@rob Check the context :P

It's a Deepak Chopra quote

@SirCumference I supposed if I wrote [banned] on a line by itself I would never hear the end of it.

Sometimes a bit of drivel is necessary in life

Blargh, grading exams is always so disheartening.

anyone fail yet?

@rob Why's that?

what's the highest grade?

what class?

Spectrum typically goes from 10/100 to 100/100

So frustrating to look at some of the bottom papers and wonder how we have so totally failed to communicate with each other.

Huh, didn't know you were a professor

@rob Some people just record the lectures, ignore everything and study the night before

At least, I know some people who do that

@SirCumference it works for some of us

it's the people who don't record the lectures who are the freaks

@0celo7 ._.

Maybe I should record them

wait, you mean like audio?

@0celo7 When I catch people recording, or photographing whiteboards, we have a conversation about real-time summarizing and muscle-memory involved in writing things down.

going to iceland

that's weird

@0celo7 Yeah

What'd you think?

@rob I thought he meant record in the general sense

like put on record

I've had people ask permission to make audio recordings. The ones who ask tend to be careful students, who are also taking realtime notes.

now that's weird

In my first astro class, I was the only one asking questions. Everyone else thought it would be super easy to record it and ignore the lectures

@vzn but would that be the way Verlinde is making that claim

MFT of AdSCFT that is

@SirCumference That makes me think of when the guy at 43folders quit writing his productivity blog ... he said "reading a blog about productivity is like buying a couch about running." If you're going to be in the same room, the entire reason is to interact in person.

@rob what if they write it down after copying it, bac at home

no one does that

@rob True. Come test, there were only a few of the students who weren't stressing out.

@Skyler Then they discover stupid little mistakes that I made on the whiteboard, that we could have fixed with a three-second conversation in class, but you have to agonize over on your own.

Or don't discover them and assume that because I wrote it, it is correct.

@rob very true

Taking photos of a whiteboard from a class discussion is like getting a poorly-typeset, completely unedited textbook.

im that student who asks all the questions in class

Tbh, sometimes if you ask questions to a nice professor after class, you get into some cool discussions

insert joke about books I am reading for my survey

As long as you don't take too much of their time

@SirCumference yep, this

@SirCumference this == purpose of college

@SirCumference eh, sometimes they dont even carew

@SirCumference you're surprised this is the case?