The h Bar

ah ok google helps, more google fu exercise en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_(Migos_album) ... saw 2chainz in concert opening for riri once... noize! o_O

Slereah

The real spinor shit requires you to break out the Clifford algebra

That way you can do it even without orientability

vzn

3:13 AM

@0celo7 (welcome back...) youre a legend, in your own ~~mind~~ time :P ... speaking of "culture"...

yesterday, by 0celo7

I did hard time, 90 days of brutal torture.

Slereah

Please

you think that's bad?

Think about when duffield comes back

vzn

lol... 0celo7 alone with himself must indeed be "brutal torture" :P

@0celo7 matrix + alex jones refs? luv it! spking of politics, friend of trump...

rob

@Slereah Without orientability I never know which way to turn

vzn

@rob hey btw nice ideas/ insight on bells thm/ CHSH. if you can get under DSs skin you know youre on the right track :P did you study it once? seems a lot of ppl who have heard of bells thm havent heard of CHSH...

Sir Cumference

3:30 AM

@Slereah Wait, what happened to JD?

Slereah

He's banned

Sir Cumference

How long?

Oh jeez

What'd he do?

0celo7

DONT TALK ABOUT IT

Sir Cumference

woah

0celo7

On the other habd

You can get banned

Not my problem

Sir Cumference

3:32 AM

@0celo7 Thanks best bud...

0celo7

I'm not your bud.

Sir Cumference

._.

rob

@SirCumference Would you like to have a conversation about users who aren't currently welcome in the chat room?

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Who are you then?

rob

Genuine question --- not anything sneaky.

Sir Cumference

3:33 AM

@rob Uh, um...no...?

rob

@SirCumference Good. Because there's not much that I can say, and asking me puts me in an uncomfortable place. Thanks.

0celo7

@rob Yes.

rob

@0celo7 s/good/bad

0celo7

You know I do.

@rob What does that mean?

rob

@0celo7 Some unix slang, vi or awk or both, for substitution. Same reply to you as to @SirCumference, except for the first word.

Sir Cumference

3:36 AM

@rob Wha?

0celo7

What?

rob

Perhaps it's too late in the evening for me to try to be clever :-)

Whether you want to have a conversation about it or not: there's not much that I can say, and asking me puts me in an uncomfortable spot.

Sir Cumference

@rob Ah c'mon, we're all friends here

rob

And what's more: speculation is how strange rumors get started.

@SirCumference I guess that's true. It's just you, me, everyone on StackExchange, and the Wayback Machine.

Sir Cumference

@rob Yep. It's pretty private here. /s

Slereah

3:39 AM

I can't find Frank Tipler's thesis online

Sir Cumference

@Slereah you try looking it up?

Slereah

yes, otherwise I wouldn't have said that

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Hmm, you try switching up the words?

Slereah

no, because then that wouldn't be the title

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Here

adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1976PhDT........61T

vzn

3:41 AM

@0celo7 know unix syntax and dont understand it myself...

Sir Cumference

From Wikipedia's references on his article

Slereah

@SirCumference I've been there

it doesn't actually contain it

0celo7

wow, people actually used to do theses on causality?

in America?

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Hmm...well it's not on arXiv

rob

That combination of constraints --- that I can't say very much that's informative about moderator actions, either to give new information or to substantiate/refute speculation --- is my basic reason for politely asking that we drop discussions about who's permitted in the chat room and who isn't.

vzn

3:44 AM

@SirCumference all great scientific societies have scapegoats/ outcasts. was just telling a teenager about this story en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippasus o_O

rob

@Slereah There wasn't an "online" in 1976. There are paper copies at the UM library. Interlibrary loan might help you out.

0celo7

@rob Don't be silly

Slereah

@rob i don't have a library :(

0celo7

I can find Euclid on the web

so there was an internet in BC times

Sir Cumference

@vzn Huh?

Slereah

3:46 AM

google books seems to have a copy

vzn

@SirCumference are you a student? physics? what country?

Slereah

but it's not available

0celo7

@rob Do you remember circuit superposition?

Sir Cumference

@vzn What are you talking about?

@Slereah inis.iaea.org/search/…

rob

@Slereah Some public libraries participate in interlibrary loan, too. You might not be able to get a physical copy but some library might have a PDF already.

@Slereah Especially if Google Books has scanned it.

@Slereah Librarians love helping people track stuff down --- even public librarians.

Slereah

3:47 AM

@SirCumference also doesn't contain the paper

0celo7

@rob Weirdos.

rob

@0celo7 I'm about to get back to grading papers and ignoring you lot.

Sir Cumference

@Slereah OK, it's obviously not online. Go back to Google Books and click "Find in a library"

rob

@0celo7 Says the man on the chat room for a "perhaps you can help me" website.

0celo7

@rob nooooo

vzn

3:48 AM

@rob fine, we'll figure out QM measurement problem without you... & maybe come up with creative names for the chat room to shoot down :P

0celo7

@rob Hmm?

Slereah

Well

google book has it scanned

I know because I searched for keywords in it

0celo7

Where else can I find people who like stupid math and physics things?

Slereah

And it gave results

But I can't access the scanned version

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Yeah, but there's no buy link

Slereah

3:49 AM

example :

books.google.fr/books/…

0celo7

lol what

Sir Cumference

Just click "Find in a library" and get a copy in a nearby library

0celo7

@Slereah what does a C with a pirate hook on the bottom mean?

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 How about stupid people who like math and physics things?

0celo7

@SirCumference Oh, sorry. I forgot about you there.

Slereah

3:50 AM

@0celo7 That's a cedilla

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Wha-oh goddammit, walked into that...

0celo7

Sure did.

@Slereah what does it do?

Slereah

ç sounds like s

0celo7

why not just make it s?

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 It's French

0celo7

3:52 AM

I know, that's why I asked the French guy

Sir Cumference

that's like if I asked you why German has...well, I actually don't know any German

0celo7

What?

I am German.

rob

@0celo7 Because L'Acadèmie Français would have to change their stationary.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 I know.

Whatever

0celo7

If you asked me what ß is I could tell you!

Because I speak German!

Slereah

3:53 AM

Because language reforms are hard to do

rob

@0celo7 That's because you're a sharp fella

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Okay, what's that curly B?

0celo7

@rob :P

@SirCumference It's a misprinted B.

Oh wait, rob is here

No trolling

2

@SirCumference It's an 's' sound

rob

@0celo7 #musiciansdontsayhashtag

0celo7

The s in German is usually a z

But the ß is always an s

it gets confusing when the s is an s

and then there's ss too

which is always an s

Sir Cumference

3:55 AM

._.

0celo7

so ss vs. ß is a long debate

and then there's dass vs. das

maybe it used to be spelled da∫

oh wow that is that

Help I made a new symbol

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Integral?

∫da

$∫$

Slereah

That is the integral symbol, yes

Sir Cumference

Oh neat, LaTeX actually makes that an integral

Slereah

Because originally, the integral sign was just a big S

for "sum"

Sir Cumference

3:57 AM

@Slereah I'm pretty sure it's a letter in some alphabet

0celo7

No, MathJax does

LaTeX will give an error IIRC

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Just MathJax?

Huh, that's weird

rob

@0celo7 LaTeX does it with some input encoding magic

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Is that so?

0celo7

@rob you know I always thought you were british

Sir Cumference

3:58 AM

So where does the partial symbol come from?

rob

@0celo7 If you run LaTeXiT for MacOS, it's in the preamble.

0celo7

@rob was T. Handler a prof here back when you were here?

vzn

has anyone seen "hidden figures"? burning up the box office dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-4201852/…

Sir Cumference

@rob What's LaTeXiT?

rob

@0celo7 Yeah, I had QM from Handler and some classmates did research with him.

0celo7

3:59 AM

@rob 400 or 500 QM?

rob

@0celo7 Undergrad. For grad I had Barnes, who I think has mostly or completely moved on from the department.

0celo7

I had him for EM and he said some pretty asinine things

I'm not a fan of the man

rob

@0celo7 Yep, that's him.

0celo7

lol

my favorite was "the speed of light is not a fundamental constant"

He said $\mu_0$ and $\epsilon_0$ are fundamental

vzn

@0celo7 hmmm, he might have had a point.

0celo7

4:01 AM

When I pointed out that any massless particle moves at $c$ he told me "that's math, not physics"

2

Slereah

Well the fundamental constants are $c$ and $\alpha$

0celo7

@vzn No, he really didn't.

Slereah

Obviously

rob

@0celo7 He's clever enough to have a sophisticated argument behind a statement like that, but I'm not familiar with it.

Slereah

@0celo7 Tell him about gravitational waves

0celo7

4:02 AM

@rob I bet you he wanted to shock a bunch of sophomores and then was challenged and had to double down

rob

@Slereah The fine structure constant fixes $c$ or $\epsilon_0$, your choice, but $\mu_0$ is still free.

vzn

@0celo7 dont know him. who are we talking about? but anyway maybe he was working from a fluid dynamics analogy. have wondered similar stuff.

0celo7

He said that I couldn't "prove gluons move at the speed of light"

Slereah

$\mu_0$ is defined by $c$ and $\epsilon_0$

0celo7

$\mu_0$ is the better constant because it's the Yang-Mills coupling, I think.

modulo some stuff

Sir Cumference

4:03 AM

@vzn A prof who teaches that gluons don't move at $c$

0celo7

with ACM not here I can make such a claim unopposed

vzn

we have only measured 'c' on earth & wrt astronomy. and the existence of dark matter/ energy says there are big things about universe we dont understand. there is some (new) proposal that dark matter is related to spacetime warping etc...

Sir Cumference

@vzn The heck?

0celo7

@rob Did he used to say that stupid Carnegie hall thing?

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Did you bother to teach him?

0celo7

4:05 AM

@SirCumference Oh, Mr. "Don't Argue with Professors"

Slereah

Also was he an electrical engineering dude

rob

@SirCumference Well ... the gluon is only a reasonable degree of freedom within dense nuclear matter. The vacuum doesn't support gluon propogation at all. Another person I respect likes to say "the vacuum is a color superconductor" and has a speed-of-glue approach to it as well.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Well...well...

Slereah

Trying to show that EE was the FUNDAMENTAL LAW

Sir Cumference

That's a bit too far

0celo7

4:05 AM

@Slereah I actually wrote a short report on LIGO for him for extra credit.

Sir Cumference

Saying "metric tensor" instead of "metric" isn't worth correcting

rob

@0celo7 As in "how do you get to carnegie hall ... practice"?

0celo7

@rob My blood is already boiling!

Ok you're a UTK grad :P

He also kept telling us to vote. I'm not sure for which party he wanted us to vote.

rob

@0celo7 I performed at Carnegie Hall once before I went to UT, so I knew that stupid joke going in. It's plausible that I told it to him.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 I don't know if he's allowed to tell you which party

rob

4:07 AM

@0celo7 He doesn't care how you vote. He wants you to vote.

Slereah

In one of Tipler's paper, he says "the generic condition holds on $(M,g)$"

0celo7

@SirCumference I had several profs straight up tell me Hillary was going to kill the country.

Slereah

The hell is the generic condition

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Oh, you found it?

0celo7

Crap, politics

Slereah

4:08 AM

No

Different paper

0celo7

@rob delete delete delte

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 That's not politics, it's college experiences

rob

A subject change is fine.

No feelings have been harmed.

0celo7

@Slereah it's in HE

maybe

yep

handy HE

Slereah

ah yes

Sir Cumference

4:09 AM

...

Slereah

Apparently it's a really shit condition

0celo7

@rob what's Handler's research, anyway?

his website is too vague

rob

@0celo7 He's a high-energy guy. I think mostly Fermilab stuff, even after most of that group started doing RHIC at Brookhaven.

Slereah

Trump too is a high energy guy

Sir Cumference

@Slereah Flagged (not really)

@0celo7 Also flagged (not really)

rob

4:13 AM

@0celo7 Also neutrinos. The UT group was active in Kamiokande, SNO, etc. Handler was involved.

0celo7

neutrinos

and he wants to tell me $c$ isn't fundamental

is that it? was I trolled?

Sir Cumference

(all right, that's enough)

rob

@0celo7 I think that's probably a good summary, actually.

@SirCumference More than enough, thanks.

0celo7

@rob that's so low energy.

Slereah

A rather simple way to show that $c$ is more fundamental than the couple $\epsilon, \mu$ is to show that magnetic fields disappear in the limit $c \to \infty$

rob

4:15 AM

@0celo7 He's got to be seventy by now, right? People slow down.

0celo7

yeah he's old

@rob He once told us "you know it's not so easy being on this side of the podium, I have to go home and write the exam"

Sir Cumference

Reminds me when my high school physics teacher told us that photons don't actually travel at $c$

0celo7

on Wednesday we got a fucking template that he filled in

he didn't do any grading either

what the hell do profs do?

Slereah

Only one season left and I will have watched all of Star Trek

rob

@Slereah Hmmm, interesting. In that limit, do $E^2$ and $B^2$ still share equally in the energy density of an electromagnetic wave?

Slereah

4:17 AM

In the classical limit, only electric fields survive

rob

@Slereah Do waves survive?

Slereah

Which is why electric fields are galilean-invariant but not magnetic fields

No

rob

@Slereah That is not an interesting limit.

0celo7

@Slereah interesting

Slereah

In the classical limits you only have Coulomb fields

Sir Cumference

4:18 AM

@0celo7 Would you actually be willing to help me with cosmology?

0celo7

I'm studying for a thermo test tomorrow and I don't understand water

so no

Slereah

I have a bottle full of it

rob

@0celo7 Man, water is a polar molecule with weak orientable bonds and like fifteen different phases. Water is complicated. Give me a nucleus any day.

Slereah

According to democritus water is made of wet atoms

Seems pretty simple to me

0celo7

I wonder what the oldest cited work is in my collection

Probably Riemann's original paper on geometry

unless Spivak cites the Elements

Slereah

4:23 AM

Well, I have a paper on Aristotelian physics

It cites Aristotle's books

arxiv.org/pdf/1312.4057.pdf

Skyler

Hey guys, just wanted to know, I've heard people say that AdSCFT is a mean-field theory on the boundary conditions of space and that can imply gravity is an emergent phenomena

is this correct?

or rather, plausible as a hypothesis

or am i mishearing the argument

Sir Cumference

4:39 AM

@0celo7 Pffh, and you said LIGO would never be useful

0celo7

ok I understand water

what do you need

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Big Rip

0celo7

no clue

I know/care about the basics

Sir Cumference

:(

0celo7

that's not what I'd consider a basic

Slereah

5:15 AM

Halp

I have too many CTC papers

Currently the big GR folder is over 1300 papers

David Z

-1

Q: IS THAT TRUE THAT THE MORE ENERGY OF A PHOTON THE BIGGER THE MASS IT POSSESS?

Let us analyse these equations for this issue: E = mc², (1); E = p, p = mc, E = mc, (2); E = p, E = mc + p vibration + p spin (3); E = h c / λ, since c λ = f, E = h f (4).

particle-physics

I'm really not sure what to make of that... does it just need really significant edits, or is it unsalvageable? Is it mainstream physics?

Just throwing those questions out there

rob

I started to fix it and the user made a (damaging) edit, so I left a comment to that effect. If they go away for a while we might make it legible.

Since it's illegible I haven't tried to read it and so I don't know if it's worth saving, but it doesn't look promising.

0celo7

@Slereah I've read like 100 pages of QM today

I'm about to die

vzn

@Skyler (was just about to cite this but no one present at time seemed interested...) Verlinde seems to be leading/ has been making headlines with this idea lately. gravity as an emergent property. dont know the details but have long theorized something like that myself, intend to delve more into it, link to dark matter seems esp compelling wired.com/2016/12/…

0celo7

@Slereah Projective unitary representations

I'm feeling a tingle

I'm about to understand spinors

Sir Cumference

5:37 AM

0

Q: IS THAT TRUE THAT THE MORE ENERGY OF A PHOTON THE BIGGER THE MASS IT POSSESS?

Let us analyse these equations for this issue: E = mc², (1); E = p, p = mc, E = mc, (2); E = p, E = mc + p vibration + p spin (3); E = h c / λ, since c λ = f, E = h f (4).

particle-physics

@obe I think I'm going to use that in my profile

"I am an infinite being that has taken on the identity of a physics student in space and time"

rob

@SirCumference Are you the one who's been watching Star Trek, or is it someone else in here and that sort of language is just contagious?

Sir Cumference

@rob Check the context :P

It's a Deepak Chopra quote

rob

@SirCumference I supposed if I wrote [banned] on a line by itself I would never hear the end of it.

Sir Cumference

Sometimes a bit of drivel is necessary in life

rob

Blargh, grading exams is always so disheartening.

0celo7

5:48 AM

anyone fail yet?

Sir Cumference

@rob Why's that?

0celo7

what's the highest grade?

what class?

rob

Spectrum typically goes from 10/100 to 100/100

So frustrating to look at some of the bottom papers and wonder how we have so totally failed to communicate with each other.

Sir Cumference

Huh, didn't know you were a professor

@rob Some people just record the lectures, ignore everything and study the night before

At least, I know some people who do that

0celo7

@SirCumference it works for some of us

it's the people who don't record the lectures who are the freaks

Sir Cumference

5:52 AM

@0celo7 ._.

Maybe I should record them

0celo7

wait, you mean like audio?

rob

@0celo7 When I catch people recording, or photographing whiteboards, we have a conversation about real-time summarizing and muscle-memory involved in writing things down.

obe

going to iceland

0celo7

that's weird

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Yeah

What'd you think?

0celo7

5:53 AM

@rob I thought he meant record in the general sense

like put on record

rob

I've had people ask permission to make audio recordings. The ones who ask tend to be careful students, who are also taking realtime notes.

0celo7

now that's weird

Sir Cumference

In my first astro class, I was the only one asking questions. Everyone else thought it would be super easy to record it and ignore the lectures

Skyler

@vzn but would that be the way Verlinde is making that claim

MFT of AdSCFT that is

rob

@SirCumference That makes me think of when the guy at 43folders quit writing his productivity blog ... he said "reading a blog about productivity is like buying a couch about running." If you're going to be in the same room, the entire reason is to interact in person.

Skyler

5:56 AM

@rob what if they write it down after copying it, bac at home

0celo7

no one does that

Sir Cumference

@rob True. Come test, there were only a few of the students who weren't stressing out.

rob

@Skyler Then they discover stupid little mistakes that I made on the whiteboard, that we could have fixed with a three-second conversation in class, but you have to agonize over on your own.

Or don't discover them and assume that because I wrote it, it is correct.

Skyler

@rob very true

rob

Taking photos of a whiteboard from a class discussion is like getting a poorly-typeset, completely unedited textbook.

Skyler

5:58 AM

im that student who asks all the questions in class

Sir Cumference

Tbh, sometimes if you ask questions to a nice professor after class, you get into some cool discussions

0celo7

insert joke about books I am reading for my survey