The Awkward Silence

spiral succulent

00:00

I see an ips question in there

which is "How to dissuade people from exploiting a shared resource"

drawde83

ooh yeah that was the angle I was looking for

Gypsy Spellweaver

@spiralsucculent I think the site has tried to reduce the questions about how to get someone else to do/avoid actions. Rather about how to make ourselves better. Somewhere in there is a line in the sand that I don't see, but see debated from time to time.

spiral succulent

okay, "how can I work with others in a group to protect a shared resource we use from enterprising new members"

Gypsy Spellweaver

Getting someone to stop doing something, and asserting your rights not to have them do it, seem the same in results, but must be viewed as different by anwerers.

spiral succulent

The situation is basically a variant on a tragedy of commons

Gypsy Spellweaver

00:05

Mind you, I am not saying you cannot ask it, I'm mentioning what I've observed here. How it will all play out is unknown to me.

Brainstorm, with no research at all, but that might be a community building type question. I think that site's about online communities, but if they include real-life communities in their purview, that might be worth asking there. Just a brainstorm, not a suggestion at all.

drawde83

this did play out over a facebook chat. Didn't realise there was a community building group.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Community Building

user15026

@GypsySpellweaver From the sounds of their help center page, it's not just online communities

user15026

So that might be a good spot for that

Gypsy Spellweaver

I sort of thought so. Like I said, just a brainstorm.

Protecting the community form shysters is a community problem that requires the community's involvement, not a solo individual acting as Champion for them.

spiral succulent

00:16

I also did not know there was a community building stack

wish that existed when I was trying to run a clan 7 years ago

eh, that looks more like "How do I run a business on facebook".stackexchange

with some interesting community building thrown in

Gypsy Spellweaver

00:34

Well, the Area 51 proposal was "Moderators" They had some debate and changed it. There are two meta posts that leave me wondering if they cover offline in part, en toto, or not at all.

20

Q: Should we restrict to only digital communities?

Our "elevator pitch" statement is: building, administering, managing and cultivating digital communities Should we be limited to only digital communities, or can we also ask about offline (non-online?) communities as well? Even if you don't actually have a "Moderator ♦" badge tacked on to ...

9

A: Are mailing lists on-topic?

Moderators.SE is (and in the proposal already was) intended to be about communities. There's a reason the matter of community management was brought up repeatedly. Of course that means mailing lists are on-topic as well - the behavioural patterns and required oversight, are similar. The site doe...

If interest lies there, @drawde83 might want to visit their chatroom, The Town Hall and see what they currently think.

As a note, the goal, defense of the community from others wanting to monetize it, seems equally valid for online as offline communities.

drawde83

03:49

0

Q: Saying not interested to business offers relating to a shared resource

I go to dance classes with a group of friends and we have a common facebook chat running so we can suggest bars to go to that play suitable music. One of my friends added a guy who offered a free class which a few people accepted but based off that he convinced the owners to make him the "officia...

conflict-aversion awkward-situations difficult-people groups dances

Extroverted Main Man

04:03

0

Q: Saying not interested to business offers relating to a shared resource

I go to dance classes with a group of friends and we have a common facebook chat running so we can suggest bars to go to that play suitable music. One of my friends added a guy who offered a free class which a few people accepted but based off that he convinced the owners to make him the "officia...

conflict-aversion awkward-situations difficult-people groups dances

Extroverted Main Man

05:14

0

Q: What should I tell my friend when she asks me mean/awkward questions?

I am a teen competitive dancer. One of the girls on my competition team seems to be nice to everyone except me and a couple of my friends. She used to be civil to me, but now she is just straight out rude. It mainly started in January when we had a retreat, and she excluded me at every turn. She ...

friends

Extroverted Main Man

05:47

0

Q: Can my sister convey to her womanizer boss by her body language and general behavior that she is not 'available' for an 'office romance'?

My sister recently accepted a high-paying job offer as office administrator in a local firm in our hometown in South India, run by a divorced middle aged financial consultant. She is due to join next week but has now been informed by very reliable parties with direct experience that this person, ...

non-verbal-communication

SmokeDetector

06:13

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad pattern in URL answer, blacklisted website in answer: Under what circumstances is it okay to not hold a door open? by gerriramirez on interpersonal.SE (@Tinkeringbell)

Tinkeringbell

@SmokeDetector Deleted before I could flag, good job!

NVZ

English, please keep in mind the things we discussed about edits. Make each edit carefully. Avoid bumping the question to the feed every five minutes or so. It's reeeally annoying. — NVZ 7 mins ago

I'm tired repeating it a million times.

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ Yeah.. I can imagine, I noticed it too... Flag it for moderator attention? Although HDE already got involved on meta...

NVZ

@EnglishStudent Friend, this is out of necessity. All your posts have like 25 revisions in quick succession. It's bad practice. Make sure every edit is substantial. Compile your changes into one revision as far as possible instead of hitting that "save edits" frequently.

Gypsy Spellweaver

06:30

@NVZ Sounds like a case where typing the question in a decent text editor, and polishing it there, prior to even opening the "ask a question" page, would be helpful.

NVZ

Strange... I see user "gnat" has like zero activity on the site, except for casting the highest number of votes. interpersonal.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Voters&filter=all

Gypsy Spellweaver

In many modern editors, it you save the file with a .md extension it will even do some basic highlighting and formatting to suggest what it will render like in the browser.

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ Yeah, that's also already a well known fact XD

NVZ

@GypsySpellweaver Yeah, apparently English doesn't like that suggestion.

I tried it out, thanks @NVZ but it doesn't feel as intuitive as making live edits. I like to look at my posts as if 'through the eyes' of other users reading this page, and improve the material in response both to feedback and the evolution of the topic through other answers, especially on meta. Some posts need less revisions than others. However, I am trying to restrict myself to a maximum of 6 edits. — English Student Mar 3 at 19:45

@GypsySpellweaver Maybe a markdown editor, like stackedit.io would be helpful.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@NVZ Now, that makes no sense. Make your IPS account "private" and then post your network-wide flash in your profile.

NVZ

06:34

@GypsySpellweaver "Flair". Yeah, it's a weird way to go about things.

@GypsySpellweaver I did suggest that, a lot of times:

@EnglishStudent It's something I have been telling you for a long time. ;) Make your drafts in a text editor to avoid too many frequent revisions on the site. — NVZ Mar 3 at 19:39

Gypsy Spellweaver

@NVZ There is no need to "post" the question to see what it looks like "live". The very page on which the creation/edit takes place shows exactly what it will look like below the text entry box.

NVZ

Okay, it's bad practice for me to be calling out particular users like this. I'll stop.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Just don't click "Submit" until it's the way you want it.

@NVZ I've never heard of this. Have to check into it.

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell I see that you're still tagged by Smokey. I removed myself from it for it was annoying to be mentioned like that. Haha

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ I don't mind ;) free flags sometimes ;)

NVZ

06:40

@Tinkeringbell I for one don't think those flags matter. ;) What matters is that spam is removed quickly without me having to flag it.

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ nice job on shirking duty then

English Student

Never mind, you can remind me anytime @NVZ! I have been composing edits offline and posting together. My target is 6 revisions.

NVZ

I think the upcoming Smokey autoflag updates will make sure we puny humans are almost obsolete in flagging spam.

Tinkeringbell

Because right now, the only way to have it removed quickly is to fall it

A J

Good afternoon!

Tinkeringbell

06:42

Because right now, the only way to have it removed quickly is to flag it

A J

@Tinkeringbell flag hunter. :P

NVZ

@EnglishStudent I'd like you to try stackedit.io if you're on PC. Maybe it's on mobile as well. Do check.

English Student

I am on mobile. I Shall check it out, thanks @NVZ.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@EnglishStudent My goal is zero revisions. Especially on questions. If I make a revision to a question, I could invalidate an answer that I don't see until I'm done with my edit. And that's not fair to the user making a good-faith effort to help me.

English Student

Zero revisions is the ultimate goal but I am far away from that @GypsySpellweaver. Once I achieve 6 I shall aim for zero, for sure!

Gypsy Spellweaver

06:48

Just make all 6 before clicking "submit" once. Then you have zero (that we know of) and 6, or any other number, that you know about.

English Student

Yes, I do need to break the practice of reviewing and editing these posts in the live window @GypsySpellweaver.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Are you always on mobile, or just at the moment?

English Student

I access the web from android devices. Note too, the internet connection is pretty weak here so I keep going online and offline on a regular basis. Editing posts in the live window is a practice not to lose content if the connection fails temporarily.

I drift in and out of chat the same way but you can always leave a message and I will get it @GypsySpellweaver.

Gypsy Spellweaver

Using exclusively Android shoots down just about anything except using the SE interface.

English Student

That's indeed the problem @GypsySpellweaver.

Gypsy Spellweaver

06:58

Having another option, I avoid anything more than light chat when I'm mobile. Even at that the auto (mis)correct drives me bonkers. Do you have the StackExchange App, or just use the browser?

English Student

I find the browser much clearer than the SE app @GypsySpellweaver. Android browser is actually a good interface for SE. Please be sure to tag my usermame with @ in chat because I need to be notified on the SE main page.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@EnglishStudent The version I get in my browser does not offer a preview of the post for an answer. In the App, however, there is a button for a preview. Perhaps, for posting questions and answers, you could use the app, then use the browser for the rest of your SE activities.

English Student

That's a good idea -- I will take a closer look at the app for that purpose, and your answer to my Q on main is much appreciated @GypsySpellweaver.

Gypsy Spellweaver

@EnglishStudent Best I could offer at such a remove from your culture. Mostly guesswork and stereo types.

Extroverted Main Man

07:15

0

Q: How to deal with a friend answering your personal 'phone?

In a comment to this question, someone stated I am amazed that some people think it is OK for the boss to answer a phone. Maybe this is a cultural thing, but only last night my good friend answered my phone at dinner without permission............ We almosat had a fist fight. I couldn't...

politeness phone-usage

English Student

It is good informed guesswork so it works. Thanks too to @D.Hutchinson for a good answer with a link to an article that conveys exactly how it feels when the boss hits on a woman, and how to handle it @GypsySpellweaver.

Tinkeringbell

08:14

@ExtrovertedMainMan off topic or opinion based, pick one ..

Tinkeringbell

09:04

@Magisch good morning! Your meta post attracted a nice rant :/

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell which one?

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch About downvoting. Reads to me like someone is advocating hugs and hot chocolate, instead of focusing on quality questions and answers here...

Magisch

-> complains about politically correct answers
-> wants a safe space from downvotes

does not compute

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, it triggered a compile error over here..

Haunt_House

09:52

I don't want a safe space. I can live very well without that

Tinkeringbell

Then what exactly is your problem with this SE? I agree it has a lot of em, and I can't fix them all at the same time :/

Haunt_House

As I stated, it's not abpout me, so stop getting personal

Tinkeringbell

Okay, then what problem does this SE have?

Magisch

@Haunt_House The problem is, if it's not about you, then why are you talking?

Tinkeringbell

According to you, what would you like to see fixed right now?

Magisch

09:54

If it does not concern you at all, then what is the motivator behind your post?

You spent 2 paragraphs ranting about how downvotes make you feel bad. Well downvotes are an inextricable part of SE so outside of just not using the site I don't know what to tell you

Haunt_House

That's a good question. I think that 100 ground dwellers like me voting on what a pilot should do isn't necessarily a quality statement

Hey, maisch, I already deleted the answer and you guys and girls should stop being angry

Magisch

@Haunt_House Now you're just arguing against stack exchange as a concept

I'm not angry

Getting disagreed with doesn't mean the other person is angry at you

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House Right now, we're trying to find out what problems this SE has, that should be fixed ASAP. Because I have a list, but because I've been around longer, I don't always see what new users see...

Magisch

In the same way getting a downvote doesn't mean the downvoter thinks you're a bad person

Haunt_House

Well, there's a big difference between a blender question where there's a pretty well defined right or wrong on on hand and interpersonal skills where opinions are emotional and important to the one having them

Magisch

09:58

Yeah thats an issue with this stack and others like it

Best you can do is focus on making your best case in your answers and then let the dice fall where they may

Haunt_House

The problem is really incompetence. And it doesn't mean I think of myself as competent. Again, it's not about me. Voting, especially downvoting has nothing to do with quality, it has to do with popularity

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House So popular people get less downvotes?

Haunt_House

If 100 people favor the easy solution, it never means the easy solution has to be the best way

popular answer do

Magisch

Thats a true == true type statement

Haunt_House

popular answers, popular opinions, not popular people

Magisch

10:00

Of course popular posts get less downvotes - their votes are what make them popular

You're basically arguing that users shouldn't be able to vote

Haunt_House

But I thought the goal is quality and usefulness, not popularity

That's all I'm arguing

Magisch

The stack exchange model determines quality and usefulness by votes of the users. There is no other metric.

Like I said, it sounds like you're just saying that the Stack model doesn't fit for IPS. Which is a fine opinion to have, but unhelpful when couched in 4 paragraphs of rant

Haunt_House

I already deleted it, so it's all fine

Mithrandir

@Haunt_House Right. The way quality is determined is by votes. It doesn't... always... work, but it's what we've got.

Haunt_House

Here's the possible dynamic: code ignorant people usually don't vote on coder questions, blender illiterate people don't vote on Blender questions. That's because they don't have an opinion on it. With people, everybody has conclusions dear to them

Just because people interact doesn't mean they are all experts at interaction

Tinkeringbell

10:07

@Haunt_House Yeah... back-up rule anyone? :D I think I'll finish that meta this weekend, I think we should really start enforcing back-it-up rule here, instead of having it more unofficial. I'm seeing to many answers that don't even mention experience as a validations for the suggested method... :/

Haunt_House

Which would mean in order to suggest an answer to the cashiers problem I'd have to successfully interact with a cashier. I'm actually not at all against this

Magisch

That is entirely pointless

Haunt_House

Is it?

Magisch

All that'd do is get people to add a paragraph about how they've totally done that (tm)

We have no way to verify either way

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House Not really? You can have been a cashier, or have had unsuccessful interactions...

Haunt_House

10:10

That's why IP stuff is complicated. I can have a bunch of unsuccessful tries and it might mean it was a bad idea and it might mean I did it wrong. Most people tend to blame the goal, not the approach

It's also very hard for two different people to pull off the same solution the same way.

NVZ

...

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House That's why I'd prefer questions to ask about the skills, not the idea... :/

But I'm not having any success with that yet

Haunt_House

I pretty much respect you for taking on an uphill battle

Tinkeringbell

Yeah, I've heard that more lately... Doesn't really feel like an uphill battle though, more like throwing stuff into a ravine :P

Haunt_House

Here's an interesting question: Wouldn't a lack of upvotes not be enough to measure stuff?

Mithrandir

10:13

Y'all need to downvote more

Haunt_House

I rarely downvote and after today, my reluctance is stronger than ever

Tinkeringbell

@Mithrandir Yeah, but for that, I wanna know if I can safely downvote everything that's [citation-needed]

@Haunt_House Well, if you're hesitant to downvote, at least refrain from upvoting a lot too ;)

Haunt_House

upvoting makes people feel a bit better

Mithrandir

@Tinkeringbell If you decide that's a valid downvote reason go for it. Votes are your personal choice, voting fraud aside.

Tinkeringbell

We can't really control it, but it would be nice like you said, a lack of upvotes is already better than a bunch of them..

Magisch

10:15

Most of these problems stem from HNQ

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House Yeah... but that's where the hugs and hot chocolate come in... I think we should focus on quality not feelings ;) Otherwise, I'd already have taken down my answer to the cashier question.

Mithrandir

I pretty much never upvote on IPS. Keeping site quality is more important in the long run than people who take downvotes personally, cause... they're not.

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch That too.

NVZ

@Mithrandir "I never upvote" -- why though? What would you lose upvoting?

Tinkeringbell

But apparently they can't take us out of there.

@NVZ Quality

NVZ

10:16

@Tinkeringbell As in?

Tinkeringbell

Upvotes are for encouraging good quality posters... not participation awards.

Mithrandir

@NVZ I do upvote sometimes. I just rarely find stuff worthy of it.

Haunt_House

which goes full circle to my initial statement that quality on interpersonal matters is usually more felt than determined and votes do measure popularity, not quality. It's 'what would I do' vs what's the best approach?

Mithrandir

The site has enough upvotes that I can reserve mine for exceptional content.

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House 'matters' vs 'skills'... ;)

NVZ

10:17

@Tinkeringbell I know what votes are. I'm just curious why Mith doesn't find any stuff worth upvoting over the span of these 8 months.

Tinkeringbell

Indeed, matters are often answered by 'what would I do' and not 'here's the recommended approach'.

Haunt_House

And while it might be worth dmaning me, people will usually suggest cowardly approaches. Take it from a coward ( :

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ Well, I can agree. Most answers lack a back up (source, experience), if they are experience they are more of a chime-in than carrying a good explanation of how/why/under which circumstances something worked... Most questions aren't about skills...

Haunt_House

Easy and effortless often equals attractive, sad but everywhere

Mithrandir

@NVZ Not none. I think I've cast 66 upvotes.

Tinkeringbell

10:20

@Haunt_House If you're still talking about the cashier one, 'Don't do it' isn't the coward's approach... it might be harder than you think, but in the end, will earn you a lot more respect that you might use when encountering the cashier 'in the wild'...

Haunt_House

Many questions are also not nearly extensive enough to make an educated guess. Cashier and headphone are good examples

Mithrandir

Yep. 66 upvotes, 587 downvotes.

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House Do you have close-voting privs already?

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell I think it's futile sticking to particular "skills" as an asker. People are not limited to using one skill at a time. Our life scenarios involve using a couple of skills combined to achieve certain goals. So as answerers, it should be our goal to identify what skills the asker needs to polish up and how to do so.

Tinkeringbell

Otherwise, you can leave a comment and flag.

Haunt_House

10:22

The 'close this' concept does not sit right with me except for spam and obvious trash

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ See... no. It shouldn't be 'our' goal to identify. That should be in the question... Then we can answer...

NVZ

@Mithrandir Pfff... NVZ wins. 1,184 up / 468 down.

Haunt_House

Somebody has a problem. My idea is to solve the problem. Closing doesn't feel like a good motivation for anything

Tinkeringbell

@Haunt_House If something needs more details, close it, leave a nice comment encouraging OP to update with the details... it will prevent the answers that are bothering you so much.

@Haunt_House If you want to solve the problem, ask about the info you need to solve it.

Mithrandir

close-pls | POB ("what should I do") | Want to request an ex-boss to be my mentor. Would it be a good thing to do?

NVZ

10:24

@Tinkeringbell No, cuz askers have a problem they do not know the solution to. Knowing what skills to improve would solve their problem in a lot of cases. It's us answerers who should know what skills would be approporiate to solve the given scenario.

Haunt_House

Sorry, I'm not brute force enough to be an effective moderator

Extroverted Main Man

-2

Q: Want to request an ex-boss to be my mentor. Would it be a good thing to do?

I have had a very good boss quite a few years back. I had a tiff with him and had to leave the company. Down the road, I realized that I was absolutely wrong and I could have handled the matter in a better way. I want to apologize to him and request him to be my mentor. Edit: I am planning to s...

apologies

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ I'm not going to argue that with you over and over. Have fun dealing out hot chocolate and hugs.

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell How would that go? If I ask about a problem and I insist that it must be solved by "listening skills", what exactly do the answerers have to say then? "Okay, go ahead." ?

Tinkeringbell

I'm going to look into what the original intent of this stack was, and if it really was meant to be soft and squishy like Shog mentioned, this is not the place for me.

Haunt_House

10:27

you do realise that you deal out personal judgement over and over again. Did you notice that I don't ridicule you?

Tinkeringbell

@NVZ What part of 'I'm done talking about this with you' did you not understand? Please help me improve my assertiveness in this case?

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell I'm discussing ideas back and forth. That's my purpose here. I'm not imposing my views onto you, if that's what you thought.

@Tinkeringbell Uhh.. what just happened?

Haunt_House

Another problem: code has usually a quick fix or no solution. IP stuff often means you have to expand your capabilities by training them

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell I started typing way before you wrote that. So, I didn't read that one until I submitted my msg.

Haunt_House

One thing is certain: if so many people even consider asking stuff that doesn't fit and earn themselves an ample dose of negativity, then the first step might be to improve on their education about the site prior to the first post. For example by video + transcript

Getting a boot to the head does nothing good to anybody or the site

NVZ

10:36

@Haunt_House I don't know about that. I face negativity every now and then, and sometimes out of nowhere. My only concern is people taking my words too strongly or negatively while my aim has always been to back and forth ideas in a fun way.

Haunt_House

Unless there was a complete rebuild of the system to accomodate the needs of IP advice, that would be my course of action: help all the people deemed unfit for IP to stay out in the first place

nvz, it's not about me or you, it's about the re occurrance of problems on a daily basis

NVZ

@Tinkeringbell Are you there? I sort of feel like you are upset with me about something. Whatever it is, I'm sorry. I value your presence and the talks we have.

Haunt_House

Marketing is the process of educating the client about your product so they can make an informed decision whether to use it. Here that often means: stay out

@NVZ I wouldn't worry too much

NVZ

@Haunt_House Well I do. The users here are my pals. I don't want them upset with me.

Haunt_House

Your concerns honor you.

Mithrandir

10:45

@Haunt_House What it boils down to is that while yes, we'd like everyone to feel welcome here, due to the nature of the subject of this site that takes a backseat to ensuring that things meet the standards and are high quality.

Haunt_House

yeah, you could prevent that by properly educating people before they make the mistake of coming in and only keep the ones that fir the profile

and again, it's not about high quality. Not that I can see that

Mithrandir

@Haunt_House When a new user signs up they are encouraged to take the tour and peruse the help center.

Haunt_House

if it doesn't work, it's obvioulsy not enough. and the tour is pretty lame

NVZ

@Haunt_House There's also an "initiation" of sorts. No matter what stack site you sign up, you'll face a tough time initially. Takes a while to fit in with the site culture.

Mithrandir

It's what we've got. When that fails we use downvotes and close votes.

Both are essential tools for maintaining a clean site.

Haunt_House

10:49

Didn't happen with blender.stack exchange. That's because there it's amazingly easy to determine whether I have a point or not

Never had a tough time there

Mithrandir

The subject matter of this site necessitates a harsher voting culture.

NVZ

@Haunt_House Consider yourself lucky then. Haha

Haunt_House

yes, that's your answer. I claim it's not working. Also, what's more important: the site or the people using the site?

NVZ

@Haunt_House Both are important... One keeps the other working.

Haunt_House

@NVZ had nothing to do with luck. On BSE, right and wrong are very easy to see

NVZ

10:51

@Haunt_House What's BSE?

Haunt_House

blender stack exchange

Mithrandir

@Haunt_House That's a leading question.

Cashbee

@Haunt_House Well, if users don't take the recommended tour, it is their mistake and not ours. It's like when you click 'I agree on the TAC' without reading them. From this moment, one can assume the user knows the rules.

NVZ

@Haunt_House The site helps people. The people help the site. Both work together.

Haunt_House

Dunno, the way it's handled, I would rather jump off a bridge than seeking help here

it has a certain amount of value for easier questions

Cashbee

10:53

No one is forcing you to seek help here

Mithrandir

I can see that continuing this conversation is not going to lead anywhere, so I'll drop it now.

NVZ

@Haunt_House hmm.. I'm curious... What makes you say that? :)

Cashbee

yeah I'm out too, bon apetit y'all

NVZ

People quit on me. ;(

Haunt_House

@nvz, that I wouldn't seek help here? Easy, I have been very interested in the last years about how people tick and I have my own opinion when I read the answers and the closing reasons and I see a discrepancy between quality and voting. Others don't

NVZ

10:56

@Haunt_House I am always open to new ideas and feedback.

Haunt_House

Few people are

It's the old saying: If you want enemies, try to change something or question the established status quo

NVZ

@Haunt_House Well, I aim to do the same without making enemies. Tough job. :)

Haunt_House

People need to feel they do the right thing. So you only have to question the way things are handled in order to risk personal attacks

Mithrandir

@Haunt_House So you see a discrepancy between quality and voting but you refuse to downvote. Hmmm. Perhaps there's a correlation there.

NVZ

@Haunt_House Okay, so any particular example post or activity on the site that you think has discrepancies that you mentioned?

@Mithrandir Can the Comment Bot add magic comments on behalf of real users?

@Mithrandir Let people vote up or down. Meh. :)

Mithrandir

11:01

@NVZ The comment bot doesn't leave comments currently, only detects and records.

NVZ

@Mithrandir since we can train bots to flag, can we do so for comments? Any ideas?

Haunt_House

I choose not to downvote because one vote doesn't change much. It's 3 or 4 downvotes on a first poster who has a serious challenge that makes a difference

Mithrandir

@Haunt_House If everyone decides that 1 vote won't make a difference, it won't. If everyone decides their vote will make a difference, it will.

Haunt_House

@Mithrandir I think I understand your POV pretty well. Let's agree to disagree agreeably

Mithrandir

@NVZ perhaps after a certain number of regex trips on a question it could automatically comment. It'd need 50 rep first.

NVZ

11:03

@Haunt_House I read downvotes as "meh". So if I get like a dozen downvotes on something, I take it that that post is "meh" to most people. So that's the feedback I see. If people start seeing downvotes as just feedback, the votes won't sting as much.

Mithrandir

@Haunt_House Sounds like a good plan.

Haunt_House

@NVZ and how exactly does meh lead you to anything really good?

I know in advance how popular my answers are

NVZ

@Haunt_House Imagine choosing what shirt to wear. If I look at my red shirt and feel "meh", I'll choose not to wear it, and perhaps choose the one my friends say is "cool".

Haunt_House

doesn't mean you dress well.

NVZ

@Haunt_House lol

Haunt_House

11:06

you dress according to the standards of your pal

Mithrandir

Perception is reality.

NVZ

@Haunt_House yep.

Haunt_House

not according to whats best for your future

NVZ

So when I hangout with "those" pals, I'll fit right in.

But when I am me, at my place, being myself, I wear whatever the "meh" I want. :)

Haunt_House

@NVZ yes. for better or worse

Here's the problem: dressing badly and having low quality friends happens automatically. Dressing well and having even a few friends with courage and character and high standards takes effort

NVZ

11:08

@Haunt_House so, forgive the bad analogy, but I think my point is, to accept the "cool" or "meh" feedback from others to learn what fits in the site culture.

Haunt_House

I think the analogy was bang on

People don't come here to fit in. They come to get advice that's best for them. The site gives the most popular advice instead and care about them fitting in or not while the fitting in part should be handled thoroughly before the question

Airlines make sure only people board a plane that really want to go where the plane flies

Here there's a small link saying tour and if you ignore it the bad experience is on you

caveat emptor

Tinkeringbell

flag-please no-longer-needed | this comment: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11570/…

Haunt_House

What's hooters?

NVZ

@Haunt_House I have a confession. I never read any tours. I just skipped to the end page to get the "informed badge". I in fact learn site cultures by sticking around, reading actual posts and observing the voting patterns and comments. The key here is "sticking around". So it might not be a good place for one-off askers, even though our aim is to be a help for all users, new or old.

@Haunt_House A restaurant, says Google.

Haunt_House

@NVZ It's totally fine to limit the scope of the site. It's not exactly as fine to let people have bad surprises. It actually harms the reputation of the site

NVZ

11:18

@Haunt_House I noticed your recent deleted meta answer. You deleted it within minutes. You gave it time for 4 downvotes. IMHO, deleting isn't the best practice. You took away the opportunity for those users who do agree with your points to upvote it.

Haunt_House

It just makes a point. The downvoters are quick to act, the upvoters, provided there'd be any arent

And my post wasn't designed to be aggreable. It was labelled venting an opinion. And that's how it's perceived. As ranting

NVZ

@Haunt_House Some downvoters don't actually read a post. So their votes are quickly cast. It's true for upvoters as well. But deleting the post is not the way to go anyway.

Haunt_House

such labels clearly deny any meaning there might be

Oh yes, deleting is very well the way to go.

And the fact that casual downvoting even is a thing proves the point of it not being relevant for any quality

Do i like the post? no? boom.

Did he use a bad word? boom

NVZ

@Haunt_House I recall some posts of mine were initially heavily downvoted (and anonymously). But I waited to see more feedback. Later, some upvotes cancelled the downvotes. So there are people with differing opinions. Give them time to see your points.

Haunt_House

and while such an answer then valiantly manages to get to 0 again, the popular ones get 100 and are labelled quality

NVZ

11:23

@Haunt_House But does that matter?

Haunt_House

I have no illusion about the future of my post. It wasn't designed to be popular

NVZ

Your aim should be to make your case, and accept the feedback. That's all.

Haunt_House

Well, it matters in the long run when it comes to the question: quality or not. You can't state everywhere that votes mean quality and then say it doesnt matter

NVZ

@Haunt_House Votes don't always mean quality. They mean different things to different people.

Haunt_House

And I am not the only one who shies aways from contribution through sheer group think and peer pressure

NVZ

11:25

@Haunt_House Peer pressure. That's human nature. Don't give in to it.

I have to go now. Good chat.

:)

Haunt_House

bye

NVZ

@Haunt_House Aye. Wait. See this meta of mine on ELU. It's initially scored negatively. But look at it now. It's +17/-10.

Haunt_House

I get your point. But I won't try to fight a system the in my opinion cannot really fit the job description. I leave that to the people who are aggressive enough

the = that

Extroverted Main Man

11:52

0

Q: Handling an old, abusive friend

I have had a friend during my college days. Unfortunately, it was only one directional and she never reciprocated my friendship appropriately. She used me for monetary purpose and mistreated me whenever I visited her home. There was an occasion where I really needed some legal advice and her fa...

abuse friendship

Tinkeringbell

12:17

I'm struggling a bit with this post... Because right now I'm asking leading questions, and basically can't be sure if the OP is genuinely here because they have a problem or if they just want to keep their question...

Anyone know how to prevent that?

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I edited the question

Seems fine to me now

Tinkeringbell

Yeah well, I was talking more about preventing leading questions?

Because they basically don't get the truth out of people :/

Magisch

I think OP wants to not seem bitter while minimizing their interaction with the abusive friend

I can relate, I have some of those ex "friends" too

Tinkeringbell

Again, that may be... but how can I suggest improvements to a question without asking leading questions?

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell Leading questions are fine

You're trying to condense what OP wants into a format that fits our site

Thats exactly what comments are for

Tinkeringbell

12:29

No, they're not... They often get you an untruthful response because you're already giving away what the 'right' answer is...

So, in this case, I wasn't trying to condense what OP wants, I was telling an OP what they should want :/

Magisch

More likely, giving the OP a way to ask their question so it'll be accepted here

Tinkeringbell

But I think you also already mentioned the solution: the format that fits our site...

I could focus on the question not fitting that right now

Cashbee

This situation reminds me a bit of interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/6533/…

Magisch

You have two choices in such a situation

tell OP their question doesn't work as of now and leave it at that

or try to help them to make it into one that does

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch Yeah, I'm struggling with that part... because is this really their question?

Magisch

12:32

@Tinkeringbell of course it is. Or it is a closely related question they also want to ask

In either way it's better then not getting to ask a question or OP wouldn't go along with it

Tinkeringbell

@Magisch better in which way? Their original questions will probably never be answered, so in this case, how are we helping?

Magisch

What most OPs are looking for is generalized advice on a situation

Especially in this case the specific wording doesn't really matter. OP wants some advice and techniques to navigate that situation. What we were talking about in the comments there is semantics. Yes we need an actualizable goal to adress in order for it to be on topic but OPs high willingness to change the question suggests they don't really know what to ask either

Tinkeringbell

Yeah but still... I still have trouble seeing the version it is now in the original post... :/

Like, from the original post, I didn't get the impression the OP was having trouble just acknowledging people.

It only became a problem because I told them

So how do I avoid telling people they have a problem? Because that's not very nice... :(

Magisch

@Tinkeringbell I think you're massively overthinking it

Tinkeringbell

Sigh maybe... but right now I don't really have the feeling I actually improved a question :/

Ah well..

Let's try to cheer up. Anyone have some feel-good news?

Cashbee

12:47

It's weekend soon :)

Tinkeringbell

@Cashbee Yay! :P actually, I have to go to driving class again this weekend, so it's not going to be a very good weekend...

A J

40 minutes more in the office and will have a weekend.

Tinkeringbell

I still have over 3 hours to go...

A J

@Tinkeringbell You came late and I came early. So, just endure it. :P

Tinkeringbell

@AJ Will do ;) Don't worry... Bad thing is I have to do some company provided training. Those are always so very slow... :(

Good thing is it will at least waste an hour of time

Sid

13:04

@Tinkeringbell Yeah. My classes got cancelled. :P

Tinkeringbell

@Sid But how are you going to learn stuff then? :P

Sid

@Tinkeringbell Um, you definitely don't need to learn stuff on a saturday. :P

Tinkeringbell

@Sid Then why are you taking classes on Saturday?

Sid

@Tinkeringbell We were informed that this saturday, there was going to be some sort of inspection thingy, so, classes would be held.

Tinkeringbell

Oh, that's pretty weird :/ Never had that happen over here, luckily. If they would have, I would not have gone to class in my free time XD

Sid

13:06

Well, today, they informed us that the inspection thingy won't happen tomorrow. So, no classes. :)

Tinkeringbell

Better :D

Would attendance have been mandatory though?

Sid

@Tinkeringbell Yeah, they say that.

Tinkeringbell

@Sid That's... the strangest part ;) What if you'd had a job?

Sid

@Tinkeringbell Miss the class. Even if they say attendance is mandatory, it's not really mandatory. The mandatory thing is to make sure at least some people go to class...

A J

@Sid which class you're studying in?

Sid

13:10

@AJ College.

A J

@Sid which course?

Sid

Freshman year in Electrical Engineering.

A J

B.Tech.?

Sid

@AJ Yes.

A J

@Sid I didn't know they do inspection thing in the college too. It never happened in my college.

Sid

13:15

Well, not exactly inspection, but this thing

A J

oh that one. okay

Extroverted Main Man

14:52

1

Q: How to avoid short answers?

I am a 30yo working as a programmer, and I feel like becoming more and more a "program" myself. When talking with friends or families, except for a certain group of friends with whom it's always fun and games, I don't ask much and I don't tell much. So, when I'm being asked things, I just use s...

family socializing

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