The Awkward Silence - 2018-03-22 (page 1 of 2)

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Extroverted Main Man

12:18 AM

0

Q: How to deal with someone who doesn't learn?

tl;dr My boyfriend's friend Bill always goes to fast when sparring. How can I tell him that he should slow down or I will refuse to spar him in future? Background As a hobby, I do longsword fencing (it's all under the umbrella of HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts)). I've been doing this fo...

friends australia

3 hours later…

Extroverted Main Man

3:46 AM

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Q: how as a third person can I deal with a friend that was in an abusive relationship?

I have a friend. This person had been taken advantage of in previous situations and was in an abusive relationship. They are out of it now and have as of Febuary has not responded to a message from this person, even though they have expressed a desire to, many times. They both are still friends ...

Introverted Meta Man.

0

Q: Where does manipulation tie into Interpersonal Theories and what to do about it?

Context In my recent question, there was a surprising number of users insinuating that because the question was about the use of an Interpersonal Theory, it was inherently manipulation. This is a significant issue because if true, then it invalidates the on-topic section of help where it suggest...

4:25 AM

→ 24 messages moved to trash

3 hours later…

7:26 AM

I'd uhh, love some discussion about my meta question ^

@JesseBarnett I'm working on it ;) Reading it now, what a novel! :O But I think here's where back it up comes in...

morning

Hello :)

Opinions about interpersonal.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/8584?

I reviewed already. I said it did not benefit whatsoever

7:33 AM

There's a fix in there. The her->my is a legitimate error

if included during the creation of the question... sure, but as an edit it is supposed to provide a meaningful improvement is it not?

that all seems to me as alternative words for saying exactly the same thing, its not even fixing grammar

@JesseBarnett No I mean the context of the question makes it clear that this is a lexical error

OP means himself, the "her" is just a wrong word usage

She also showed various signs of attraction: she complimented her

ooh.. I missed that

This is clearly supposed to be "my". The other edit is probably just to satisfy the character limit

yeah, if i had noticed I would not have voted the way I did

with things like that, it would be helpful to include a comment to show what the focus of the edit actually is about

7:37 AM

Yeah the given edit comment wasn't ideal

in hindsight the meaning and association with the comment becomes obvious after I have realised the connection, they even made a joke they thought it would be so obvious... I was just too thick in the head to notice :D

7:55 AM

Okay so @JesseBarnett you have an answer, now onto improving my answer to your question ;)

ooh yay!

Btw, yesterday was the first day ever I repcapped from writing an answer with sources, yay!

recapped?

got 200 reputation in 1 day

that's the max you get, it's capped at 200 , so rep-capped

This meta question is way too dense for me this morning

maybe after 2 coffee

7:59 AM

ahhh, well it was a good answer

(bounties and accepted answers aren't counted though, so you can e.g. get 215 a day by having your answer accepted ;) )

@JesseBarnett Yeah, I like it too :) (was??? :P )

I think thats a subconscious term from being used to talking. When you say something you said it in the past. When you post something it continues to be there so IS is correct xD ahah

Hahaha ;) I got it, just had fun pointing it out ;)

social penetration theory sounds interesting, but veers too close to overt manipulation for my taste tbh

woooow

ahah

how about you research it ehh, this is just what we are complaining about ;)

8:05 AM

@Magisch I think the main problem we have here is people seeing it as a technique to use and do stuff, while it probably is just a name to describe a phenomenon?

in general. A theory is would never be about "how can I penetrate this social situation" but instead about "This is something that happens, lets give it a name and research why it is that that happens". And in this specific case it even goes so far as to push about how mutual the interaction must be

(Which btw invalidates my own answer) :P

@JesseBarnett I think that would make your question more of a 'why was this theory not applicable to my situation' instead of 'how did I use it wrong'..

Gotta run, see ya later!

The theory itself is what I described, but there was also documentation about how to use it

so I assumed that it could be used in my situation

@Tinkeringbell I think the deliberate application of that theory to gain access to someone is the manipulation part

The theory itself is just the description of a social happenstance

"to gain access to someone" what? i believe you mean "to mutually strengthen your relationship"

Seriously @Magisch research it

8:16 AM

I read the question you asked

.. meant this as a joke but it still sounded far too conceited xD

Uncharitably described you're using your friend as a test subject for a theory you've been reading about and it hasn't worked well

I can see why people flinch at that

Almost nobody likes being analyzed and deliberately induced to do something, even if it's done with the best intentions

you are on the wrong site buddy

basically every answer analyses the situation/people and tries to figure out what the best course of action is

I'm trying to explain to you (in answer to your meta question) why people have reservations about your approach

interpretations are personal and emotional, this is a personal topic

Just take a bit of time to learn about it before going on about this yeah?

8:27 AM

Excuse me? Do you think until I've read a book on this I'm not allowed to express an opinion about your question?

when the context is about complaining how people keep expressing false opinions because they have not read the book. then running around saying those same opinions while not having read the book is understandably annoying

Ms Jackson's answer is actually pretty spot on. You can have the very best of intentions and the purest motives, but if people feel you're gaming them or attempting to game them there's gonna be severe blowback

This is completly independant from the theory in question or the appliance thereof

And people here (answerers and commenters) are also subject to this effect by proxy. This is such a hot topic and such a point of contention that people get queasy even when it doesn't happen to themselves.

Just write a meta answer.. I explained what I thought there

the place to try and point these things out is not here.

this is IPS for gods sake. If the thought of implementing actually researched Inter Personal Skills makes our community feel queazy then... well I don't know what, but I am not happy about it thats for sure

IPS Comment Bot

9:06 AM

@Arthas I have trouble believing that someone who makes things awkward for others by making sexist comments would notice or care about the awkwardness of getting no response. Since apparently he finds making those comments normal I don't think silence would be taken as disagreement - rather as confirmation of the normality of the comments. — AllTheKingsHorses 59 secs ago

#12188 AllTheKingsHorses (2911 rep) | A: How to helpfully react to a male coworker's sexual comment about a woman (score: 3) | posted 15 hours ago by Arthas (1427 rep) | edited 9 hours ago by Arthas (1427 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

@JesseBarnett Well, I think you're going to be disappointed with the answer then :P

I wrote an answer to your question @JesseBarnett

@Magisch I don't see self-disclosure as manipulation per se, and being aware that you're disclosing yourself is actually not that bad?

It's not as thorough as @tink 's but I try to explain why irrespective of your approach it might not work

@Tinkeringbell My answer adresses that

@Magisch Oh, I'll look :)

9:10 AM

It doesn't need to be manipulation, any sufficiently drastic change in your interaction with someone can feel like manipulation, whether it actually is or not

I have a history of bloody noses spent figuring that out

@Magisch Sounds rough... I was a manipulative brat when going through puberty though, and one of the things I never did was self-disclose. That would make me vulnerable!

And becauwe I liked to manipulate, I couldn't be vulnerable, I needed others to be vulnerable

I tried a whole host of ways to interact better with others

Turns out people have a reflexive, extremely strong, downright irrational negative response to even getting a hint of being gamed in any way

@Magisch 'Then you were doing it wrong' > might it have been that you were trying to hard, just like Jesse?

@Tinkeringbell Thats exactly what I say in my answer

@Magisch Then wouldn't it be better to give advice on how not to try to hard?

9:14 AM

I think the negative reaction experienced isn't a function of the theory not working, it's a function of too drastic a change in interaction too quickly

@Magisch Oh sure, I agree. I pointed that out in my answer already long ago.

your answer has an academic/behavioral therapist vibe

I wanted to focus on just that aspect of it :p

But instead of just saying 'you did it wrong, and you're being manipulative' there is a way to give advice on how to do it 'properly'...

@Magisch Well thanks. I just disclosed about how my relationships developed and you're saying I'm too cold-hearted?

@Tinkeringbell no

I meant that in a positive way

@Magisch Okay, good :)

Any thoughts on this one? It could use a loot more sources IMO, or at least back up the entire first paragraph with experience? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/12223/1599

9:17 AM

FWIW, I don't think Jess is being manipulative, I just think it can come across as so

and in this context there is no difference between the two

(I'd like a second opinion on it before I slap the autocomment on it)

And what about this one? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/12219/1599

Really, I'm disappointed at the quality of answers a question tagged 'academic-research' gets here...

Thats because this is IPS and not "The theory of social interaction"

Even if we leave aside the whole issue of 'normal answers to normal questions' this doesn't seem good...

The academic angle is somewhat missing the forest because of the trees in my opinion

The answers don't discuss the intricacies of the theory behind the question, they're trying to answer OPs stated goal (in the last line)

@Magisch Hmm.. yeah, from that angle your right... but still, it's about how do I use the theory (or self-disclosure)... so an answer might be expected to explain how it related to the theory?

9:22 AM

@Tinkeringbell Many of these answers are frame challenges with an implied "This won't work because {implied x}, try {y} instead"

@Magisch 'implied'... ugh, I hate that word. Questions have implied stuff, answers are allowed to imply..

That second answer is only try{y} and not even giving a name to y, or describing where it fits into the theory

I sort of wish I hadn't written an answer, so I'd be more free to comment on others. Right now, I feel like my hands are tied.

1 hour later…

10:48 AM

@Magisch that's why I approved

11:23 AM

interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2675/1599 sigh

Apparently, I'm not allowed to ask ....

12:14 PM

@Tinkeringbell: What do you mean by that?

Your purpose is to make better relationships or to make experiments on people? – 9ilsdx 9rvj 0lo 2 hours ago
.... why do i even try

@Daniel That I'm a bit disappointed at both answers, but was especially disappointed at yours (first revision) since it seemed more of a personal attack on me and my behavior than an answer to the question...Still reads like that way.

@JesseBarnett :/

@Daniel "Quality of the answers should not be a concern for moderation" when you are talking about how to get people to improve their answers... that most certainly IS a concern for moderation

why on earth do you think we close "too broad", "off-topic" ect questions

@JesseBarnett Quality is a different axis to topicality

There can be good off topic questions and bad on topic questions

@Tinkeringbell Just so we're clear. Do you want to get a mandate to declare non backed up answers as non answers (subject to deletion) or do you want more people to downvote them?

@Tinkeringbell: I think it is a valid Question (didn´t downvote) and I think the community should give guidelines to moderation on where it feels intervention is needed and where not. I posted a mandate for no intervention in the case you described. Hope somebody makes a case for pro intervention so we can see majority opinon ...

@JesseBarnett: You seem to mix up questions and answers here .. .we don´t close answers as off-topic. we downvote them into oblivion ...

12:21 PM

@Daniel non answers are deleted

^

I'm not exactly sure if we're trying to reclassify unbacked answers as non answers OR just want more people to downvote them

Preferably a way to encourage people to write them better from the start, or encourage improvements... so then downvotes or not voting over deleting, but if it isn't working, deleting so people can more easily see 'the good stuff'?

I admit that deleting goes against what SE describes should be done for bad answers, hence I asked in the meta question about how to encourage/enforce backed up answers... (I edited the title now, since that was giving the wrong impression and causing some confusion I think)

and we currently have a problem about people upvoting unfounded answers that really need to be backed up just because they include a popular belief

@JesseBarnett Thats an unfixable side effect of HNQ

12:23 PM

^Which is exactly what I wrote the meta for, but I now have two answers that are basically saying 'trust the voting system/culture'

@JesseBarnett: Also, getting people to improve their answers is not necessarily a moderation task, anyone can comment and request impovment.

actually it is fixable >.> when it is REALLY needed, having an option for moderation would help

@JesseBarnett A fix would either involve deleting more answers (gets increasingly harder as answers get upvoted) or somehow convincing HNQ users to vote differently

@Tinkeringbell you know my comments on your answer were in response to the guy making a new answer right? Although these additions would be great, your answer is fine as it is

@Daniel Which would be really, really nice. But not many people are joining in that :)

12:25 PM

ahahahh @Magisch but DELETING is a form of moderation

@JesseBarnett right, but in the scenario where some bad hearsay gets HNQ upvotes and sits at like +20 we'd need like 10 delete votes to kill it

not really feasible now is it

@Magisch In that case, it's a case of 'community can't handle it, flag for mod'.

If we'd tried, but fail because of HNQ, you can certainly have such flags approved

I think mods don't deal with quality issues that way

at least here they don't

@Tinkeringbell Post a Answer yourself. Someone needs to make a case pro-enforcement. for people to be able to vote yes or no. I would, but I can maybe not come up with a good line of argument because i am biased pro voting.

@Magisch They do. I must admit it was probably months ago, but I flagged an answer that was upvoted a lot in HNQ AND was a one-liner. moderator removed it (it had like 5 downvotes but 20 up because of HNQ, and comments asking for improvement)

@Daniel @Daniel I'd prefer to give it a little more time. If you'd like to encourage voting though, you might want to think on 'how' to encourage that ;) The question I posted isn't so much one of being pro/con back it up, that's already discussed elsewhere. The question is how to effectively encourage (or enforce) back-it-up

(and imo, encouraging it is equal to a light enforcement of it)

12:41 PM

@Tinkeringbell: I don´t really get why you are concerned so much about bad answers at all. A really bad advice with a -5 vote and lots of 'nooo' comments can be quite valuable to the OP in showing what not to do. It´s not like there are no good answers here to balance it out.

1:06 PM

Wow, just caught up to everything

1:17 PM

oooo cool beans

so what do you think?

Well, this sums it up....

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Extroverted Main Man

1:44 PM

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Q: How can I politely tell students that I don't have time to help them

About myself: I am a PhD students currently in fifth year of the program. I have a lot of work to finish within a few months to wrap up my work and submit my thesis before the start of the sixth year(otherwise have to go through a grilling and laborious process to get an extension ) which I am no...

conversations helping students

Extroverted Main Man

2:03 PM

0

Q: How can I tell my parents I want to drop out of college?

Background I am a 24 year old living with my parents. I'll soon be 25. I study at a local university/college. Lately (the past few years) it has not been going well. I am considering dropping out, maybe two semesters away from graduation. But maybe two years. I don't know. I have my reasons fo...

conflict-aversion parents netherlands school depression

I think we have different definitions of 'bad' here. There's bad advice and there's badly written answers. Comments saying ‘noooo’ tend to be for advice and tend to get deleted: Since this site is very subjective, they always (I have never seen otherwise) result in discussions in comments. It is encouraged to write your own answer, and point out where it's better, but if there's no back up in the first post, it's very opinion-based/difficult to argue against it...

Now, there’s not really a problem with ‘bad advice’ getting downvoted, most people are good at pointing out stuff like ‘How is …

IPS Comment Bot

This is exactly what most answers are missing. Interpersonal interactions are a two-way street; one needs to understand and even somewhat sympathize (not agree) with the other person in order to truly understand the situation. This person isn't just a sexist; he's a person just like you. — Arthas 47 secs ago

#12231 Arthas (1450 rep) | A: How to helpfully react to a male coworker's sexual comment about a woman (score: 1) | posted 6 minutes ago by peufeu (10172 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

IPS Comment Bot

2:29 PM

"Sure! I wonder what she'd think if she'd heard that though..." That just sounds a) like you agree and b) like you're egging him on to make these comments to her face! — AllTheKingsHorses 1 min ago

#12231 AllTheKingsHorses (2909 rep) | A: How to helpfully react to a male coworker's sexual comment about a woman (score: 0) | posted 18 minutes ago by peufeu (10180 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

I disagree with The other proposed answers, like "Not cool" and its variants all mean you're judging Steve according to your own personal moral and cultural standards, and you're attempting to shame him relative to your standards. "Not cool" is an attempt to shame him, it is an opportunity for him to re-evaluate his standards. — Belle-Sophie 15 secs ago

#12231 Belle-Sophie (769 rep) | A: How to helpfully react to a male coworker's sexual comment about a woman (score: 0) | posted 23 minutes ago by peufeu (10180 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

^ @Daniel look and behold the wonder of IPS: a discussion in comments is born! (Free comment flags for you btw, just flag them no-longer needed).

2:45 PM

@Tinkeringbell First: Wow, where does that Now I know you already think that I’m making this about me... come from? This is definitely not the case. I just think we have different opinions on how a, or more precise this stack is supposed to work and I want to find out which it is.

@Tinkeringbell Second, I think this turns the site more into a giant brainstorming session is exactly how it is supposed to work (wonderful picture by the way). Add some time and the best Ieas of this brainstorming usually pop to the top.

IPS Comment Bot

@peufeu : what bothers me here 1. how do you know that a *** like Steve will value more professional standards over cultural standards? 2. (laugh) "That's not very professional, Steve." -> don't you think Steve will understand the laugh as a (friendly/accomplice, like a wink would be a "*complicit gaze") yeah, I agree, still we can't say that HERE, at the WP* 3.why write an answer to [ provoke / prove you right ] (no real arguments here, really?) ? 4. why calling names and pointing some "A's right / B's wrong" ?!?! — OldPadawan 2 mins ago

#12231 OldPadawan (8610 rep) | A: How to helpfully react to a male coworker's sexual comment about a woman (score: 0) | posted 36 minutes ago by peufeu (10180 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

@Tinkeringbell Third: you keep posting a very specific example. The last tree post you mentioned in this chat have negative vote though.

@Tinkeringbell Fifth: I don´t see where in you example voting has gone wrong. This is a controversial topic an the second most answer adds a valid view on that. As this is highly subjective, there is no wrong / you´d have have to ask the cashier in question what she thinks appropriate. If I´d put that question I would have been happy with the result.

3:05 PM

@Daniel I'm curious as to why you think that being a "giant brainstorming session" is how IPS should work?

IPS Comment Bot

I agree but at the moment she is attending college at the cost of her health. That is never a good choice. I also want to point out that in my country and hers, student loans are far less than the US equivalent, to say, it does not bankrupt us to stop and it is not a thing that floats over our heads for years to come. There are various programs to use and follow to gain a degree at a later age as well, including evening college. Her 'gained' ECTS are saved as well and later on she just needs to gain the amount she is short. OP should check all of this with a study guide/ counselor though. — Robin 39 secs ago

#12232 Robin (814 rep) | A: How can I tell my parents I want to drop out of college? (score: 1) | posted 24 minutes ago by Robin (814 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: How do I connect with people over texting?

I'll start off with some context: I'm 19, and I've had problems keeping friendships for as long as I can remember. I have no problems making new friends (but it's a bit hard for me to relate to people). But right now I'm in a social situation where a lot of the interaction takes place on text or ...

conversations texting friendship

@Daniel That comes from the meta answer you wrote, saying that I wanted stricter moderating just because I disagreed with answers.

@Daniel This is definitely not supposed to be a brainstorm, I think even the CM has been clear about that, I'll look up the relevant info soon.

@Daniel I'll look up another example.

There's plenty, shouldn't be a problem

@Daniel wrong as in OP said Smalltalk wasn't an option, answer written from different cultural perspective and even pointing that out still gets a lot of upvotes...

Even though in this case it may not be really harmful advice, think about the implications if it was about something more serious than talking to a cashier...

If there's a culture involved, answers should honour it

3:29 PM

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I brought enough for everybody

@RichardU Now you're making me hungry, but I really should wait until closer to noon to eat lunch

@Rainbacon I'm on lunch now

IPS Comment Bot

+1 for suggesting the OP is hallucinating. — Raditz_35 2 mins ago

#12229 Raditz_35 (192 rep) | A: How can I politely tell students that I don't have time to help them (score: 1) | posted 1 hours ago by elliot svensson (41 rep) | edited 1 hours ago by elliot svensson (41 rep)

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3:46 PM

@Tinkeringbell If we can agree that deciding if an answer is sufficiently backed up or needs further context will always be somewhat subjective, the suggestion to start enforcing a back-it-up rule is a suggestion to moderate more on a subjective matter. This has nothing to do with you personally, you just have put up a topic for discussion and I happen to have an opinion about that.

@Daniel Take a look at this one: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/12229/1599 Not backed up whatsoever, but upvoted nonetheless.

@Tinkeringbell actually, it's at -1

@RichardU Because you just put it there? It was at 1 when I saw the comment underneath that one pop up in here.

@Tinkeringbell I could take it to zero, but not to -1

@RichardU Well, then we just voted simultaneously ;)

3:50 PM

On a more general note, I would like to understand why this community or part of it apparently feels the constant need to swiftly and rigorously correct things by manual intervention, while in my perception for example "The Workplace" does fine without it. (and this is quit comparable as a lot of the answers there are in fact interpersonal solutions confined to the setting of a workplace environment)

@Tinkeringbell probably

@Daniel Well, for one Workplace is a graduated site, so it has a lot of people who know how the site is supposed to work. But maybe Richard is better qualified to answer that one ;)

@Daniel As @Tinkeringbell said. While TWP is still subjective, there are clear boundaries as to what is and what is not acceptable in TWP. Also, what goes on in TWP is HEAVILY manual. We are just on top of it because we are very active and in most cases, in agreement of what is and what is not off topic.

@Daniel take a look around TWP Meta for the history of strife and confusion over the past couple of years.

We also had some bizarre trolling that IPS has so far, been spared.

@RichardU We had an episode over winterbash IIRC, but not that bad, no.

Any thoughts on if this is an attempt to provide a completely different answer from the user's first answer to this question or if it's just trying to game votes (though it is a poor attempt to game votes if it is that) interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/12239/11659

3:58 PM

@Daniel, I found another example question: https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11730/what-is-the-best-way-to-begin-a-discussion-around-a-compromise-for-our-wedding-l/11734#11734 Take a look at the most upvoted and accepted answer there... A perfect example of a brainstorm answer that isn't backed up with experience, or a source to a reference on how to effectively compromise.

While the question is actually one of our better ones, asking for help with an actual Interpersonal skill, just google 'how to compromise' and there will be lots of sources you could add as a reference t…

@Tinkeringbell I'm almost certain that we were targeted by f0ur Ch@n for trolling. We were playing troll whack-a-mole for a while. Luckily we had several people over there who knew how to spot trolls

@Tinkeringbell Regarding that Q: That's the exact type that would get kicked from most sites for "lack of research or effort"

@Rainbacon Bad answer, VLQ. Em left an excellent comment. Take a good look at the question though, to me it looks like it might needs closure.

@RichardU Well, it does mention that the OP has already tried to have a convo about it, and is now looking for info on how to effective compromise given a situation. Which is more than can be said for a lot of questions here...

@Tinkeringbell well, that's another issue.

@RichardU Sure, and I already fought that battle on questions for a week or so not too long ago....

Mar 9 at 22:22, by Shog9

The problems become manifest soon enough and even the folks who'd damned me were ready to admit that something needed to be done... And they did it.

I'm just waiting for that, I guess.

@Tinkeringbell yeah. Ignore Shog at your own peril. He knows exactly what is going on, and when to step in. He's kind of our Zeddicus Zul Zorander. When he shows up, you know that change is coming.

I find that I am rapidly spending rep on down-votes.

4:08 PM

@RichardU I'm ignoring the 'take a break' part of that speech :P

@Daniel, here's what the CM had to say about 'good' answers:

Mar 9 at 22:39, by Shog9

@EmC here's the thing: debugging questions get a lot of crap, but debugging is one of the hardest and most important things a programmer can learn to do. Answers that teach folks how to debug are worth their weight in ... ok, they're just worth a lot.

@Tinkeringbell it's good advice. If I didn't do that, I'd be trolling a few places into oblivion just out of spite.

And this:

Mar 9 at 22:39, by Shog9

The problem is when you get questions where the only answers are "try this: <code dump with unspecified changes>"

@Tinkeringbell I think a few more prodding comments may help get that under control. at TWP, we were very aggressive against answers in the comments for about a week, and the problem went away. I think that a few gentle reminders in the comments section may get posters to back things up a bit.

You might want to read the messages following that too @Daniel, it has some interesting stuff on cultural relevance too...

@RichardU Thing is, if I go on a downvote/comment spree on my own, I'll be the boo-man again. I'd love to see community chime in on that meta of mine, saying 'we can comment, we can downvote'... So that I'm not the only one actually going about, or I can at least say 'Hey, other people think my behavior is okay'

@Tinkeringbell I'll help. I'm used to being the fall guy. It's not like I'll be hated any more around here :D

4:22 PM

@Tinkeringbell I am not sure how that relates to the topic we are discussing. Take for your example post from earlier - that took 18 edits incorporating probably feedback and clarifying. Others though process might be even more externalized. I don´t think there are much "gold" answers which where posted in one go without revision.

@Daniel Oh sure, it does show exactly how hard it is to write a good experience based answer. But I thought we were discussing the need to write backed up answers, and encourage other people to do so as well, instead of just discussing my answer...

I'm looking at bigger pictures here it seems.

Wow, this just passed through the history with 'Leave Open'... interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/12226/… ... :/

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@RIchard I've got a better version of that one!

Slow internet, lemme look it up though :P

imgur.com/JYiEcqX

You'll have to follow the link then ;)

It's personalized XD

hey I saw interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/12226/…, shouldn't this one be moved to academics?

They're asking on how to communicate stuff, which can be on topic both here and on academics. In such cases, we just leave it here.

It needs a lot more detail though.

4:32 PM

ok, fair enough :)

All we need is a socially inept professor who's getting in trouble in his work environment. That way we can send it from TWP to IPS to Acedemia and then back to TWP

yea, lets not get a migration mess :)

@Tinkeringbell I thought you wanted to show me on how getting to a good Q/A on SE is not meant to be sort of a "brainstorming" process ... ?

@Daniel meta or chat in here is where that belongs (if anywhere)

@Peter we already get back and forth from TWP and academia.

@Tinkeringbell My reasoning is, too get good answers, you need mediocre and even bad answers and some leeway.

@RichardU I have literally no idea what you want to tell me with that?

4:43 PM

@Daniel Oh no, the getting a good Q/A from a brainstorming session is okay. The problem is that our answers are a brainstorming session on possible solutions for the question as long as we don't encourage backing them up

And yeah, as Richard suggested, preferably scope is decided on meta. Now leaving comments asking for clarification is a form of brainstorming too, I agree, and that is a good form that should be encouraged on this site

@Daniel But the problem is that mediocre and bad (if we purely look at how backed up they are) are now getting the same amount, or even more, votes than the good ones.

Not because they're good answers, but because people agree with them

IPS Comment Bot

Welcome to Interpersonal.SE! The standards for answers are quite high here: you'll need to edit your answer to explain why you believe this is the "most polite way", and why you believe this would work. At the moment, it's likely to be deleted, downvoted, or both. — F1Krazy 1 min ago

#12241 F1Krazy (103 rep) | A: Is it ok to video a TV reporter without their consent? (score: 0) | posted 3 minutes ago by Dev (1 rep)

Matched regex(es) ["chatty"]

@IPSCommentBot Good one, but could use some links to meta :)

@Tinkeringbell That is the question: Is a good answer in the sense of the SE a popular one or can that objectively be decided by one person (then why bother voting) In your earlier post you criticized this post but it may just be the most helpful to anyone in this situation. Sure it would be nice if the author took more time back it up, but, if strictly enforced this post may very well not be there at all. Would we not be missing something then?

@Daniel I don't think we'd be missing anything... It's the same like questions on SO: there the code/solution an answerer gives can be checked by other people by just executing it... If I wrote something that didn't compile, I wouldn't get upvotes there?

While if my answer contained that it worked for e.g. an older library, it would be much easier to see why it doesn't work for that question, but it would still be a much more valid answer

IPS is like coding in that aspect, we need information on the version of the libary you're using, on the language you're developing in... we expect all that from questions, yet since our answers are a lot more difficult to check for validity than code because they might very well be originating from different languages/libraries/environments, we still don't expect a back it up?

We just wait until someone that also happens to develop on a mac upvotes it, while all the windows people are like 'wait no, this might not work for the OP because they're on windows'?

Extroverted Main Man

5:00 PM

0

Q: How to politely tell landlord "you don't have to remind me for rent"

I have been living in this house for last four months and always paid my rent on first day of the month. My landlord is a old lady living in the same house with me. We have a very good relationship and always talk during the breakfast/dinner time. Every month she keeps reminding me that tomorrow ...

conversations awkward-situations canada

0

Q: Very moody gf not helping in household

My GF and I split the cost of our rent with the promise that she pays less and does the household instead. She only works 80%, I do 100%, thus we decided that I pay 60% and she 40% of the rent and she does the household instead. This didn't worked for many years and I am at my limit. Whenever po...

relationships housemates mental-health

That is the point - in specifically cant be? What works for me with or rumtscho for that matter, may lead to disaster with your SO. Humans are not compilers, their response is non-deterministic and also we do not have the manual for the specific SO at hand which OP is asking about.

@Daniel Which is why rumtscho's answer would be much, much better if it included information on whether they actually tried this with an SO, and what kind of person their SO is...

Or if they got this advice in another way

So, how do we encourage people to write backed-up answers?

@Tinkeringbell So you answer, thinking OP has a C# wife, but in fact he has a Haskell wife ... nothing worked ... OP always has to choose for himself which approach to take - he has the most info on what kind of wife he has ...

@Daniel Which is why a good question would include some information on what kind of person the wife is

@Tinkeringbell I agree totally with this staement!

5:03 PM

and a good answer would include info on the kind of wife the answerer is having

or, if they don't have a wife, maybe they have Haskell relatives, or Haskell co-workers they compromised with

Heck, as long as they mention their solution worked for C# and can show portability to Haskell, why not?

Maybe there's an underlying part of C# that's similar to Haskell... Like Objects exists in more languages than just Java. But do point out what kind of Objects you're talking about, and point out the differences between a Java Object and a Whatever Object

@Tinkeringbell I don´t it is possible to always provide this in the scope of a SE Q/A - i also find that it is valuable to have diversity in the answers as others reading this may just have the C# wife you already wrote the answer for.

@Daniel Gimme a sec :P Read the rest ;)

If someone comes here, sees the question on the Haskell wife, but thinks ... no way, I have a C# wife, according to our meta now, they are encouraged to ask another question, and pointing out the differences with the current one

So yeah, a Haskell wife might easily compromise once you get her to agree with you on something, while for a C# wife you might need to assert your dealbreakers a lot more... that's okay, that might be enough reason to ask a new question... But it's not a reason to keep answers about C# wives on a question about Haskell wives

@Tinkeringbell Only one problem - I strongly believe we are oversimplifying things atm. I don´t believe IPS works that way.

@Daniel It doesn't work that way 'yet'... but this sounds amazingly simple yes :-). Problem we have right now is questions not including enough detail, and answers not honoring the C# vs. Haskell thing. Lemme link you the chat transcript again :)

@Tinkeringbell I don´t think it is possible to easily categorize people in that way, and still my Haskell wife might be an a particularly VBA-ish mood today and explode over my perfectly fine solution that would compile any other day ...

I cant, for the weeding post we just discussed, even see an attempt of anyone asking for references - and I can not really imagine OP can give any more than: usually works for me when disagreeing with my wife which would not really improve the quality, just more words.

5:19 PM

@Daniel Well, take a look. Scroll. There is an answer with references and guidance on how to compromise there...

Why is it lost at the bottom, underneath answers not including back up at all?

@Daniel Which is why I asked a question about how to encourage backing stuff up. No attempts were made in this case, because there's no attention to how good backed up stuff can be

As for 'when disagreeing with my wife' I agree with you that in this situation, it would not help overtly much, but that's also because the question doesn't mention if we're talking about a Haskell or C# wife (generally speaking, her VBA moods aside). Even if she regularly has VBA moods when on a period or something, it might be worth mentioning that. A good answer can then say 'this works, but I always make sure I talk to my wife while in a Haskell phase'

Yes, it isn't easy to categorize people, but giving information on their background is good.

Do you think this question of mine interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/3385/… would have an answer, explaining very in depth from the perspective of someone with autism, how I've been doing it all wrong, if I hadn't mentioned Alice had autism?

So sure, encouraging good questions is probably a part of encouraging backed up answers.

@Tinkeringbell too bad I wasn't around here when that was posted. I might have put in a few good words, but it looks like it was answered well.

You might want to start reading here chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/43318233#43318233 and read to the bottom of the page. Read the experience described, take a look at the question discussed there :)

@RichardU You could still write a late answer if you have anything to add over that :)

@Tinkeringbell well, aside for using the train analogy, I don't think I'd be able to improve upon anything, but I'll give it a look. :D Our brains are like trains, they move very fast, but we are very bad at turning (letting go of subjects, injuries, insults, et cetera). It comes across as stubbornness and resentment, but it's really not.

We also seem to have a very good talent for annoying the Neuro-Typical folks out there

@RichardU I know about that one, I saw the comic...

@RichardU It's the self-disclosure :P

@Tinkeringbell there's a comic?

I remember The Onion had a web series where they would have their autistic reporter do live reports. It was pretty funny because there was a good deal of truth in it.

5:32 PM

@RichardU Yeah. I'll look it up for you later, right now the internet is a tad slow (train) to be looking for images okay :)

:)

@RichardU I like that analogy. I usually compare my brain to a household circuit. Sometimes I blow a fuse (sensory overload) and have to go reset it (usually some form of stimming)

@Rainbacon Is crocheting considered stimming too? :P

Because it sort of works like that for me, the way I understand stimming

@Rainbacon yeah, my daughter has it too. When her mother starts to tell me stories, I already know how they were going to end. My ex tried to buy our daughter a day bed. ROFLMAO. No! just... NO!

@Tinkeringbell I feel like it would depend on why you are doing it.

5:36 PM

@Rainbacon Ah, like that... probably not then

@Rainbacon I have a deep affection towards people who are blunt. I never have to try to figure out what they are thinking.

@Rainbacon do you have the synesthesia as well?

@RichardU What's a day bed?

@RichardU Not that I'm aware of, though I do describe my emotions mathematically using music as an intermediary

@Tinkeringbell A day-bed is one that doubles as a couch. It has the headboard and footboard, but also a decorative side as well that you can put cushions up against and use it as a couch during the day.

@Rainbacon I have it. One of my favorite things to do is turn off the lights and watch music.

@RichardU Ah... a sleep-couch :)

Extroverted Main Man

5:39 PM

1

Q: How can I keep things new and have my TEEN relationship last?

I'm a 15 year old girl and I'm currently dating my 15 year old boyfriend. We've been dating for 2 years now. I have a strict dad and I can't see my boyfriend. We both live in different cities and only ever text. I'm really self conscious about my looks so I don't like to video chat, and my voice ...

relationships online-relationships

@RichardU Sounds fun

@Tinkeringbell a picture is better....

@RichardU No, I understand what you mean ;). We literally call it a sleep-couch in Dutch :)

user image

For anyone who doesn't know ^^^^

@Tinkeringbell so, to my daughter this is not a bed.

@RichardU Agreed :)

But you're talking to the girl that refused to drink yoghurt drink for an entire holiday just because it wasn't pink enough

5:41 PM

@Rainbacon it's fun for good music. but noise looks ugly and it offends two senses.

(loong time ago though :P)

@Tinkeringbell who knows, you could be one of the tribe.

@RichardU Might very well be ;) Mom warned me when I turned sixteen that if I ever ran into trouble I couldn't seem to solve, to seek help and a label. But until now, I think I've been doing pretty well on my own :)

user15026

@RichardU I'd agree. This would not be my choice for a bed option. The extra side would drive me crazy.

@Tinkeringbell personally, I despise labels, and defy description ;)

5:44 PM

Although I seriously think that my quirks are just that, quirks... I'd hate to belittle people with actual problems by saying I might fit in as well... the yoghurt drink could very well have been puberty as well ;)

That would be a terrible bed option, I tend to sleep with my feet hanging off the bed

@Ash Weird though, my bed is against the wall, so it sort of naturally has a side.. Yet I can't imagine being comfy in it either..

@Rainbacon my ex-wife said our eldest went berserk at the very thought. I was like. Yeah, and?

@RichardU I like the label only for the ability to understand myself. Other than that, I don't particularly need it.

user15026

@Tinkeringbell Ah, mine is like a couple inches from the wall on each side

5:45 PM

MY bed is in the middle of the room, with only the headboard against the wall.

@Ash Noo! That would mean my plushies would tumble off the bed :)

user15026

@Tinkeringbell The solid foot end would bug me too

user15026

@Tinkeringbell I do have to fish them from the floor sometimes

@Ash Hmm... mine has a foot end that's higher than the mattress (not that high, but still)... I'm not a tall person, maybe that's why it never bothers me?

And I actually like having my toes between the mattress and foot end

My bed is fairly close to the wall, but that's because I live in Manhattan and my room isn't big enough for there to be extra space around my bed

5:47 PM

@Ash I'm too lazy for that :P Mom would go nuts, if she isn't already with the amount of plushies her 26 year old still has XD

user15026

@Tinkeringbell Mine doesn't. Mind you it's a queen bed and I tend to curl up so it's not an issue per se but I just don't like that I couldn't stretch out

user15026

@Tinkeringbell hahaha I'm 30 and live by myself currently so no one cares but me (and maybe my cat)

@Ash I really need to move out. But mom says I can't take my bed :(

user15026

@Tinkeringbell aww :(

Actually, that's one of the things I really don't look forward too, having to pick a new bed.

5:48 PM

@Rainbacon Im in NJ, I know all about NYC apartments. Some are so small that if you push your key too far into the door, you'll break the window.

I'd love to pick my own couch and stuff... but somehow bed doesn't seem fun

@RichardU Yeah, I was never concerned with space usage when I lived in Indiana, but then I moved here

@Tinkeringbell I dunno, I've had some of my best fun in bed.

@Rainbacon I'm surprised you don't have a murphy bed

@RichardU I sleep in it. And the one I have now is perfect like that. Why would I want another one?

@RichardU Nah, I have a 1 bedroom, so I don't quite need to do that

5:50 PM

But yeah, that's one of the things my mom is pushing as well: Get a two-person bed. I hate those

It's just that my bedroom is about the same size as a queen sized bed, good thing I only have a full size

user15026

I just like my queen bed because I can sprawl all over in it (except when my husband is visiting. Then I have to be a bit more contained so he still gets some of the bed)

@Rainbacon I had that arrangement once, with a queen bed

@Ash But isn't that like ... cold? I slept in hotels in two person beds and turning over always would wake me up because it was so chilly

@Tinkeringbell I never move much, myself.

5:54 PM

@RichardU I kick people

user15026

@Tinkeringbell I have a giant pile of blankets so it retains teh heat well enough

@Tinkeringbell my youngest would beat the heck out of me. She punched AND kicked

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: A Europe-themed game for 5-10 people

I hope this is the right place for this question. I am responsible for organizing a Europe-themed (party) game for 5-10 people. The theme is Europe, as this is one stop of an Amazing race-like competition. The game should ideally last about 15 minutes. It could be judged by time or performance...

@RichardU Hahaha :) I once had a holiday where my best friend came with us, and we were supposed to sleep in the same two person tent... I apparently kicked her often enough that she'd humbly asked my parents if one of us could go on the sleep-couch in the caravan

@ExtrovertedMainMan Is that board and card games stack accepting questions like this?

@Tinkeringbell yeah, but you're not a child. I couldn't believe a kid could hit so hard!

5:57 PM

Hahaha :)

(gotta run!)

gnite!

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