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7:08 PM
that sucks that people are venting at your answer @Tinkeringbell - I think it's a pretty good answer ...
 
@Tinkeringbell I've been out of the loop, what happened?
was it just that guy on monday?
 
Wish it were. I wrote an answer to the 'notify people online that I'm a woman' that was apparently unsalvageable, every post I write lately is getting 1 or 2 unexplained downvotes, or comments (usually from the same people) telling me 'you're giving bad advice'. Today, I've been called names for writing the answer to the 'ask out the cashier' question, while another answer I wrote in the beginning got just as much comments, only to the opposite.

It looks like people don't even read stuff anymore.
 
@Tinkeringbell take it as a badge of honor
you have haters, that means that you're sufficiently interesting to hate on :D
 
@Magisch I'm just getting sick and tired of people hating me, without me being able to sufficiently hate back. @Catija is doing an awesome job of moderating the comments on that latest answer right now, but I just wish it hadn't even got to the point it got to...
 
@Tinkeringbell If things are getting bad and you think that you need a push, feel free to ping me. I started poking at it because I got pinged. I wasn't actually looking at the flag queues.
 
7:16 PM
@Catija That's not what's supposed to happen. I'd feel like pulling rank.
But okay, I will.
 
@Tinkeringbell If you look at it the other way you're at +67 on that post. That's not bad.
 
@Tinkeringbell I mean... that's a general statement... I'm not only giving you permission... As long as y'all realize that I'm not always here... but I do have work, so I often don't get to hang out in the queues.
 
@Catija quite a few people are taking ... liberties with the be nice policy in the comments underneaths tinkeringbell's answer today
 
@sphennings I know it isn't... but it's just frustrating seeing everything get the same 1-2 downvotes, and the same people commenting over and over...
 
And by liberties I mean some really unacceptable verbal spewage
 
7:18 PM
@Magisch I've been seeing more and more of it around... not just on Tinkeringbell's answer.
 
@Tinkeringbell You got -6 on that one. You're pissing some people off.
People don't like it when you put them in a position where they have to consider that they could be potentially less good then they thought. This leads to people doubling down, and pushing back.
 
The dad jokes question had a lot of them... the one about the wife's birthday had a bunch that I've not had time to actually do anything other than delete. It's disgusting to me what people think is acceptable to say.
 
@sphennings I know, and it would be tolerable if those people don't leave comments telling me certain things...
 
@sphennings My hazarding guess is that a lot of people went "Hey i've done that and I wasn't a creep" while the realization sets in that yes, you probably were, you just didn't get called out for it
"No it is the others who are wrong"
 
@Catija It seems it's on other sites too...
 
7:20 PM
If they can invalidate your argument then they won't need to consider the fact that perhaps they weren't nice to those women, perhaps they did make things uncomfortable.
 
@Tinkeringbell I don't notice it as much on other sites (I assume you mean on SE)... and I can't really do anything about them.
 
@Catija I've wrote an answer or 2 over at the Workplace and they got the same thing... There's some names I see pop up on both sites too, and the guys over at the Water Cooler are complaining about it as well
 
thats because you have to learn to not focus on it
only you can give these people the power to upset you. On the flipside, you can also take it away
 
It's all about knowing when to step back.
 
@Tinkeringbell Complaining about it on TWP? Because one of those people from the Water Cooler is one of the people who's calling the OP's wife a "prima donna".
 
7:22 PM
I usually go "yawn, thats the best you were able to do"
 
@Catija Yeah, not that one.
 
interesting ...
 
gender issues are always a risky topic, since the perspective differ so massively on that one
I can sort of see both sides of the issue, so I can see why people lash out
 
yes @Magisch, I agree ...
 
@sphennings Which isn't really in my character, especially not if the comments might lead to unfair downvotes because people take part of my answer out of it's context or are just plain rude...
I will defend my answer...
 
7:24 PM
@Tinkeringbell There's a reason that downvotes are private and don't require a comment to post
 
@sphennings Yep, I know. It's to protect the poor voter from me
 
You need to see when it stops being about suggesting improvements to the answer and starts being about scoring rhetorical points, that's when it's time to shut the conversation down.
@Tinkeringbell It's because comments aren't supposed to support a discussion.
 
@sphennings while that's true, those commenters are probably feeling then that Tinkeringbell enjoyed a one-sided, winning debate, supported by the mods, while they aren't allowed to balance out the voices on that question -- even though they can, if they just write their own answer, but they probably have no faith in the voting system, currently.
 
@sphennings I know they aren't, but I dunno who said it, but commenters seem to be getting smarter, appending a question mark to their opinion..
 
@D.Hutchinson No-one is required to participate on the sites but if you do you are expected to follow the same rules as everyone else. A lack of faith in the site doesn't excuse being not nice, or using comments for a discussion.
@Tinkeringbell Just because someone says "Your post is wrong?" doesn't make it a request for clarification or a suggestion of improvement.
 
7:31 PM
@sphennings I know, that's why I still flag them ;) And they get deleted, so it's not a problem yet
 
There are plenty of questions that aren't appropriate for the comments.'
 
I know, I know... Really, I'm not going to leave the site. But that doesn't take away my disappointment.
You know what cheers me up? The fact that I can sleep in for 15 minutes the entire week, since there's construction on the railway, and the busses leave 15 minutes later than the trains usually do :)
 
@sphennings I understand that, sure. But telling a group of people who have no faith in a system that they wish to be a part of, e.g. a country that they live in with a government that they have no faith in, asking them to be nice and follow rules is actually a lot to ask for -- it may seem like the bare minimum to you, or even trivial, but maybe not for them ...
 
@D.Hutchinson Asking someone to be nice and follow the rules is the bare minimum.
 
7:47 PM
@sphennings yes, and some people demonstrate that they don't have the capacity to be nice ...
 
Doing less than that is explicitly grounds for banning.
Jeff Atwood on April 06, 2009

Are you familiar with the Penalty Box?

The penalty box (sometimes called the sin bin, bad box, or bin) is the area in ice hockey, rugby football and some other sports where a player sits to serve the time of a given penalty, for an offense not severe enough to merit outright expulsion from the contest. Teams are generally not allowed to replace players who have been sent to the penalty box.

It’s not something we looked forward to, but as of tonight, we’re instituting a penalty box on Stack Overflow. …

 
@D.Hutchinson There's a pretty huge difference between the government of a country and the rules of a website... People who don't agree with the system of a website are completely free to stop participating at any time without consequences, it's a hell of a lot harder to move to another country.
 
No effort to learn and improve, and disruptive behavior are grounds for a suspension.
2
@apaul It's a lot harder to move to another house in the same town than it is to join a different online community.
 
@sphennings no effort to learn and improve is a bit presumptuous and assuming bad faith regarding these commenters ...
@apaul sure, but they can also be helped ...
they can be banned or helped ...
 
@D.Hutchinson banning is SE's way of helping
 
7:50 PM
It kinda stops being an assumption when the same people have been warned about the same behaviors multiple times.
 
@D.Hutchinson We try to assume good faith but when told "Don't do x" and they continue to do x, we can safely assume that they aren't learning.
2
 
@D.Hutchinson People get lots of warning and chances before getting suspended. And even after suspension, after it's over, they're welcome to come return and be a productive member of the community.
 
Can I get some help flagging the comment as no longer needed? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11008/…
 
You need to have a talk, at a non-stressful time, and explain that you are crappy at figuring out what people like (whether true or not). Work out a system with her in which she tries to think of things she likes and you try to take that list to produce an unexpected (partly) result — Carl Witthoft 1 min ago
#10969 Carl Witthoft (101 rep) | Q: How can I find out what surprise my wife wants? (score: 38) | posted 34 hours ago by jl6 (291 rep)
Matched regex(es) ["you\\W(really)?(need\\Wto|should)"]
 
@Tinkeringbell Funny how it seems to be the same handful on users who only "participate" by leaving crappy comments...
 
7:59 PM
@apaul I know, I know. I already complained about that and we moved on ;)
Also, Catija told me I could ping her if needed...
I'm almost afraid to go to sleep with that answer up. Maybe I'll delete it and undelete it in the morning XD
 
Seems like I remember someone writing a meta post about that a while back... ;)
 
@apaul About crappy comments?
Or about people participating in the community?
 
-1
Q: Can we do something with our comment only "users"

apaulI've noticed a few usual suspects that seem to only use the site as a place to start arguments in comment threads. I'm not really sure how to address the issue. I called one of them out directly for it, but that doesn't seem like a great way to handle the issue, because it adds more unrelated no...

 
@apaul That was not 'a while back' that was last year :P
 
@Tinkeringbell Don't worry about it. Your answer will be safe while you get some sleep.
 
8:07 PM
@Tinkeringbell "while" is a relative term :P
 
@apaul This site has of a peanut gallery than other sites. There's also seems to be less of a mechanism for tracking problem comments than problem questions and answers.
 
Can the hate club get some more no-longer-needed flags? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/11008/…
@Catija, the Harper is out of control again.
Hi @YohDeadfall :)
 
@Tinkeringbell Of note they're singling out your frame challenge and not mine.
 
@sphennings Yeah, because that person is in the 'I hate Tink' fanclub...
I've had trouble with them before
Just flagged it for mod attention, hope it get's handled :)
 
8:25 PM
When did "Don't be a creep" become a political platform?
 
@apaul When one of us says it. If one of the lower rep says it, we delete it as soapboxing of course..
 
JAD
hmm, I can't flag the post :/
Already had it flagged from the previous burst of comments
 
@JAD My post? Why not?
Ohhh..
 
JAD
but the flag wasn't removed/handled
 
Just flag the comments from Harper for moderator attention ;)
@JAD Nope, Catija admitted as much, she noticed the comments because she was pinged in chat, not because she handled the flags.
 
8:31 PM
@Tinkeringbell Nah, sometimes I just leave flags there as a reminder to check back in... but there were three, so I cleared two of them.
 
@Catija Ah, so you just dislike @JAD the most :P
 
@Tinkeringbell No. I just cleared them. :P
 
JAD
@Catija yeah I figured as much
As much as I would like to get in those last few flags for Marshal, I figured you'd check back on it
 
I'm going to an appointment... so I'll be out for a bit.
 
JAD
o/
 
8:33 PM
\o
 
@Catija Did you at least make sure Harper is getting some coffee too?
:P I'll see you later I guess. Sorry for writing an answer that needs so much moderation.
 
Hi @Tinkeringbell (:
 
@Tinkeringbell Psh, pretty sure my comments get deleted all the time. All. The. Time. ;)
 
@YohDeadfall How do you like the chatroom so far?
 
@Tinkeringbell This is the first chat I read because of an interesting discussion.
 
8:39 PM
@Tinkeringbell Your answer is strictly better than mine. I think it's because I'm ostensibly male, and didn't talk about my personal experiences with sexism.
 
@sphennings You can still edit them in.
@YohDeadfall Which was? I hope it was the one on language and not the whole drama about the answer? :P
 
@Tinkeringbell I don't have any good ones to add. People hit on me so rarely that you basically need to say "I'm trying to hit on you!" before I'm going to notice. The only reason I'm with one of my partners is because their boyfriend said "My girlfriend thinks you're cute."
 
@sphennings Yeah, you told that :P I once wrote an answer saying much the same, about 'how to ask someone on a date'... Basically, I need the word date to even realize people want to date, otherwise I'm just having parties and sleepovers.
 
@sphennings ostensibly?
 
8:55 PM
@Magisch "apparently or purportedly, but perhaps not actually."
 
I'm way too dense for that level of subtletly
 
I'm pretty apathetic when it comes to my own gender. There are times when playing it up is beneficial, but mostly I really don't care much one way or the other. Being surrounded by other shitty 12 year old boys, I grew out of being bothered by being missgendered.
I like the qualifier ostensibly because it expresses my gender apathy without passing judgement on other people's identities.
 
@Tinkeringbell It's about J. Doe's question and everything related. So the whole drama (:
 
totally unrelated to the current dramas but I've been trying to formulate a question to post.. how much detail is needed for hypothetical situations? like if I want to ask "how can I tell my parents x" but I don't know how they might react, is that too broad? :/
 
Odd that there's more people in the chat room for that answer than in here. Oddly silent as well.
 
9:09 PM
@EmC You will need to provide an explanation for why you can't just say x to your parents.
 
Is it purely hypothetical, or is it a practical problem that you actually face?
 
@sphennings well, "X" is "I'm thinking about eloping" :P
 
@EmC I thought traditionally how you told your parents that was by saying "So my partner and I got married"
 
so it will be a real problem, but their responses might range from "well, it's your life" to "we're really upset because ???" to "well that doesn't count"
 
Isn't the whole point of eloping to not tell your parents? ;)
 
9:12 PM
@sphennings haha I mean... that's what he is probably going to do. but I think my parents would really not like that
 
@EmC If you do it legally it counts.
@EmC I can see why.
Why are you thinking of eloping?
Also Congratulations!
 
they don't like our relationship and it's not like we had an official engagement so I think "surprise we're married!" might be a bit too much of a shock for them
@sphennings thanks :)
neither of us like big get-togethers, his family won't be upset and my family... has their own issues. plus we just want to make it official without all the expense and stress and time planning ;)
 
@EmC If possible it's nice to get your friends and family to endorse your union, in some fashion.
What's cool is that you and your partner get to choose what that means for you.
 
@sphennings yeah, we probably would hold a "reception" / party some time after
I told some friends last weekend and they were all super happy for us, so that was nice :) the married ones said "I feel like I should tell you not to elope, but yeah that sounds awesome" lol
so I guess what I wanted to ask was how to break the news to my parents, but if I'm not sure how they'll react.. maybe that's not really answerable yet
 
Perhaps do a very small, quick and dirty ceremony? Immediate family and best friends only. Find a nice public park nearby and quickly exchange vows.
 
9:19 PM
@sphennings well, a problem with immediate family is that I don't want all of them there...
 
That complicates things.
You can use the threat of elopement to encourage good behavior.
 
I'm estranged with my sister.. who incidentally is getting married in a couple months
 
You can always pick and choose.
 
I guess so.. just seems easier to skip it all and just do the two of us, ya know? even parents only would be weird after what they've said to me about him
my mother literally will not talk to me about him
 
Any particular reason for that?
 
9:24 PM
parents disapprove of how the relationship started.. bad timing wrt ending our previous relationships
we've also had arguments about "well you don't talk to us about him! we've only met him twice!" and then I say "well you never ask about him and go silent when I mention his name! you've never asked him to visit!" etc. etc.
 
@EmC Ah, so you were both cheating?
 
@apaul his divorce was not legally finalized (they were separated, the paperwork was filed, etc., just not final stamp by judge) and I had been putting off breaking up with ex. I'm not proud of it, they know this, but we can't exactly change how it happened
 
@EmC so not really cheating.
 
@apaul I appreciate that! my parents' view is that since he was not legally divorced it was an affair for the first however-many months.
 
Eh, seems like it was definitely already an on paper only situation.
 
9:31 PM
@apaul yep
 
Are your parents still on their first marriage?
 
@apaul yeah, 30+ years at this point
 
@apaul That's a nasty argument!
 
they were high school sweethearts
 
@EmC Blegh...
 
9:33 PM
imo if you're already separated and filed the papers then it's not cheating
 
@Tinkeringbell hahaha :)
 
for some people high school relationships work out
not often though
 
my uncle (who my dad doesn't talk to) has been married and divorced multiple times though and that's another thing they talked to me about..
 
@EmC I say go with eloping :P
 
@Tinkeringbell what??
 
9:34 PM
@Tinkeringbell it keeps sounding better and better :P
 
@apaul Thought you were setting that up as argument (it sorta read like it)... that would be one nasty one to make (You're not on your first marriage either)
 
maybe I'll just tell them we looked for rings and leave it at that for now..
 
The question is why you're making such a fuss about it
You can just not invite the offending family members
 
@Tinkeringbell Was more thinking that someone on their second tour would be more likely to "get it"
 
@Magisch I guess... weddings seem very daunting and complicated socially, there's all these expectations
 
9:37 PM
@EmC Yup
 
Well, good luck planning everything, I'll go to sleep :)
Night!
 
@Tinkeringbell thanks :) night!
 
(@EmC the others here are far more experienced when it comes to that stuff, listen to them :P )
 
@Magisch like even though I haven't talked to my sister in months I still got no less than three invitations to various wedding things. I was worried after I RSVP'd no that I would get yelled at the next time I called home... fortunately not but I can tell there are a lot of things my mother is not saying
 
Eloping is always an option, just be aware that it potentially comes with long term consequences.
The most obvious one being that whole marriage thing ;) Seriously though, it's the sort of thing that your parents are likely to hold a grudge about... Particularly if they're religious, or have strong feelings about the institution of marriage.
 
9:46 PM
-1
Q: How do you tell an answerer that you think their answer needs work?

HarperToday I saw a weak, but well voted, answer. There were a number of viable, potential answers to the question. So this was not a "how do I drive drunk safely" impossible answer that must be answered "you don't". The answerer thought it was, though. The notable blindness to obvious viable a...

 
@apaul yeahhh both of those are true :(
welp the drama is back in the other room
 
10:36 PM
Do we have our own meta post on frame challenges?
Having trouble finding one specifically about that.
 
10:49 PM
@apaul I didn't realize that we were going with a similar stylistic motif until after I posted my answer.
 
@sphennings That makes it so much better lol
 
Apparently my comment telling Harper to go to meta is Rude/Abusive.
 
-1
Q: Answering culturally dependent questions with cultural ignorance

Thorsten S.This is now the second time I see an answer here where my first impulse as German was "What the heck?" The first answer was How to tell a colleague to take care how he looks. It has many answers which I personally find totally off the mark with a high number of upvotes where people admitted that...

0
Q: How much due diligence should be used before saying "You can't"?

HarperQuite often I see an answerer open with "You don't" or "You can't" or some other abject contradiction of the asker's question. Sometimes that is an alliterative style which quickly turns into a real answer. But often, there perfectly well are good answers. The answerer just hasn't thought o...

 
11:07 PM
0
Q: Is This Relationship Toxic?

NoNeedForItWe've partnered up to help her visa. She stopped working about six months ago because her sister will visit so that they can travel. She complains when I do less housework than she does. She wanted to write a roster for house holding. I said I'm up for it after she starts working like I do. Until...

 
@Catija How does flagging a mod work. Does it pop up in your own queue or does it only get sent to the other mods?
 
@sphennings There's only one queue. We're just expected to be cautious about handling flags about ourselves. :) They trust us to refrain.
 
@Catija Can you look ahead/skip in the queue or are you required to handle them in the order that they come in?
 
@sphennings It's not like the regular queues. All of the flags are on one page and you can sort them by type of flag. There's no "queue". :)
 
Cool thanks for the explanation.
 
11:20 PM
Sure. :) It's not the best tool... we also have the flags pop up on the question page if there are any on the question.
 

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