'cause I have relatives on SE

@Magisch Get typing, we need questions.

Post it as an unregistered account? Obfuscate the details?

eh, i'll figure it out

@Mithrandir Anonymity is easy enough?

no it's not, when you consider the cultural background we ask for which is very relevant to the question i'm not asking

@Mithrandir Hmm... Couldn't change names and relationships in order to protect the guilty?

Not really. Culture is that unique.

Brother becomes a cousin, maybe use the neighboring country with a similar enough cultural context. Dunno, just spitballing

@apaul think this is a thing we can't easily fix

our new user discoverability is 0 right now

@Noon Yeah, probably. Then he'll guilt trip me and say he's hurting so bad and just wants to have a relationship

whatever that means in his perspective

site isn't old or established enough in the SE life cycle to have appreciable traffix influx from google searches

@Magisch Unfortunately that may be the case, but we need to keep the ball rolling if we want that to change.

Hope is a powerful drug. Should really try some.

@Magisch Do you see that in the site analytics too? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/site-analytics/traffic-sources

this is our traffic since the 15th

Yikes

page views - visits - new visits

freebases some hope

So gotta start posting those questions folks!

Yiiikes....

interesting what a tweet can do eh?

but we're the "sexist subreddit of SE" so it's ok

palpable bitterness

We're at a pretty critical juncture as a site. We can lay down and die, or start getting it together, so that we out last this dry spell.

I want to believe you, but the network has given me no hope they won't kneecap us again the next time someone makes a mild stink

I agree with both of you.

@Magisch They probably will. Part of fighting is knowing how to get back up. Rather than counting on never getting kneecapped, you learn to stay in the fight after it happens, knowing full well that it may happen again and again.

@Magisch I don't think I can share much in the way of specifics yet, but from conversations in TL, I know a few people are making strong efforts to put policies and such in place to ensure this doesn't happen (or at least, make it much harder to do so).

Lets hope then by the time they sort out HNQ properly that IPS is still open

cat hinted that it'll be new years well before that

If there's anything that can be learned from being in a heavily marginalized minority group... It's how to keep fighting even if/when it feels like a lost cause. The cause isn't lost till people surrender.

If a site is depending on HNQ for its traffic, that doesn't speak well of the site's general health.

@Mithrandir If you look at site analytics, every beta site is depending on HNQ for a majority of backlinks, referrals and new users

Unless you have already established communities moving over, the only way for a stack exchange site to get exposure and discoverability is HNQ

@Magisch MartialArts.SE is at 0.4 questions/day after 2456 days and IPS is at 3.5 qpd after 482 days. It'd take quite a while for IPS to die due to lack of HNQ.

Folks can also start linking on their own social media outlets... Use Twitter to undo the damage done by Twitter.

For what it's worth, our QPD probably will drop a fair bit, but surely not as low as 0.4.

unless area52 is out of date, anything below 5qpd is red and "needs work"

Area 51 is extremely out of date.

It's been out of date since it existed. Those stats were set before any sites were launched through it.

That's what @El'endiaStarman was telling me too... just adds to the pile to be honest....

Oh, I agree Area 51 sucks for anything related to graduation, but are the stats themselves not accurate?

They're accurate in the sense that they measure data. They're not accurate in the sense that they are relevant to the site.

@El'endiaStarman shout out to those 847 Bing users!

lol

Sure, sure. I'm just pointing out that MartialArts.SE hasn't been shut down so they're not quite dead and buried, so we don't really have to worry about surviving a few more months.

HNQ was driving a lot of traffic, but how much of that traffic was really constructive?

@Mithrandir or that if they say it's bad, it's actually bad for the site

@El'endiaStarman I've had mod flags pending for like 4 months on 3dprinting lol

@JAD That seems...excessive.

tbh, a lot of SE sites probably need to be shut down but haven't been

0.4 qpd seems like it's already dead

to be fair, it was a stupid flag on an already deleted post (else I would've retracted it), but still

Seems to me that we had a lot of "attention", but an awful lot of that attention was ultimately destructive and divisive. Am I the only one who remembers the era of the daily dumpster fire?

I think I raised a mod flag because a spam flag aged away

@apaul I mean, yeah.

@apaul you mean HNQ attention?

I was in favor of heavily restricting IPS from HNQ

but completly killing it seems excessive

@JAD Ya

also i'm pretty sore from the way it happened

putting it mildly

so any analysis from me this decision is going to get isn't going to be fair

yeah, this was overkill squared

Just saying that we are where we are now. We have every reason to be pissed off about it, but we gotta move forward.

TBH, I'm interested in analysing the posts/day, votes/day, votes/post etc

@Magisch Yeah, that's one thing that I've thought about... just simply killing it without having a solution in place was definitely something I was not happy about.

to hear that from you of all people @apaul

What happened to your "fight the power" mentality?

@Magisch There's more than one way to mutiny ;)

@Magisch I think choosing battles is important here

@apaul best way is to just keep going in spite of adversity!

Or as a wise someone put it

I do think the battle needs to happen here. The modes of communication between network and userbase are so shot that I can see the entire network dying over it if it keeps going

be best

So somewhere a line has to be drawn in the sand

At the moment, I'm taking an F*** HNQ and F the CMs. If this site is going to last we need to be able to make it work without them.

CMs are probably least involved in this trash fire

@Magisch absolutely. There's a question on meta about something like "what are the guaranteed constructive methods to make changes on the site?"

I have that open at home on my desktop

@ElizB has there been SE response there yet?

real talk though, somehow we need to move away from this mode of operation on SE. This is the second time it's happened and half the network and two thirds of the mods are sore and hurt as hell over it.

@Magisch "least involved" in causing it or in general? If the former, then I agree; if the latter, then I'd say a couple CMs are heavily involved in putting it out.

Three guesses what happens when it happens again inevitably

@El'endiaStarman yeah in causing it

@JAD There was a bounty put on that by another user basically saying that it's aged and needs a new response in light of what happened

wouldn't be surprised if some CMs cautioned exactly against what happened but were overruled

@Magisch That, I don't know. It does seem like there was a strong sense of urgency though, so not enough time to think things through.

The followup accusing our mods was actually even worse then the initial action and reaction

from my perspective, anyways

That's what i'm seeing too, I agree with @Magisch

So... Are we gonna finger point and navel gaze or are we gonna make the site function?

okay, so we need more questions? I can ask more friends if they have any questions related to interpersonal skills they can check us out

I'll ask mine tomorrow

when I'm conscious enough to formulate it

We need good questions. Good questions are rarely asked by brand new users from HNQ or elsewhere. Get crackin folks.

@Magisch Yep, for sure. There was a lot of, uh, intense emotion expressed in TL. That's part of why I'm hopeful that the CMs will help us all move forward in a good way.

I can ask my friends on facebook, basically. I can ask them for theoretical situations where they would like to know what to do (interpersonal skills)

My gut is that hypothetical questions would be pretty hard to pull off because you'd have to fabricate a background to go with it. (Even if all this is made clear so there's no deception of any kind.)

maybe we can shed our reputation of being a cesspit and attract more meta and twp regulars to help out

I think the CM's should sponsor everyone in chat to go to burning man together. That'd probably give us enough material for a handful of IPS questions

@ElizB awesome. There's plenty of other ways to draw new folks. Ask people who you actually know, and think would make productive community members.

this time actually because we'll have more control over and time to react to popularity effects

@scohe001 lolol

I don't have many friends that would be interested in being consistent members but I know they definitely have questions

all of my friends want nothing to do with stack exchange, sadly

aww

@scohe001 I'm heading to a Burn in January. Should make for some good material.

oh, cool

@apaul ayyy that'll be exciting! Let's just hope you remember enough to write questions on, yea? ;)

I'll brainstorm the next few days and ask people, but I also have midterms so I probably will be MIA for at least a day or two while I freak out and study

@Noon - I edited the question

@Mithrandir now it's a phrasing request? :p

@scohe001 meh, i don't think so - it's asking how to do that. not necessarily for a formula

i'll look at it again when it's not after 11PM when i finally get a computer working

eh, whatever, edited again

Looks good to me

See what you all made me do.... SMH

@apaul Ooh I'm excited

You were warned.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

WE'RE ALL DOOMED

Oh. Never mind then.

@Sandman woof

Feeling a lot more positive about LGBT+ questions now that they won't land on the HNQ. #brightside

@scohe001 Awoo?

Back from classes. Thinking on how and what to say to friends who I know spend some time online. Problem is, I don't have a whole lot of these people. Maybe i'll just ask for ideas for questions then I can make a situation or maybe they can remind me of a situation where I don't know how to react or interact with someone in a particular way...

@ElizB Could always explain what we do here and encourage them to check it out and/or post a question if they have one.

@apaul Yep. Gonna do my best because there's a lot.

Sweet.

i also have an ever-increasing pile of work to sift through and prioritize while my heart is here in IPS :) Emotional and realistic prioritization needs happening :P

i like this idea of making some more high quality questions :D

keep in mind it doesn't have to be interactions.. might be a good opportunity to write some academic research style ones too ;) I definitely learned a lot from the one I asked about NVC

(catching up on chat) also from what I've heard, sites don't get closed for lack of activity so much as lack of willing moderators, and I don't think we'll be facing that anytime soon :)

@EmC So... You're gonna ask one, right?

@apaul haha, I will be thinking about it

@EmC Good stuff. Any thoughts on polishing the turd I dropped in the sandbox?

@apaul lol you make that sound like what my cats do

I just got home so we're making dinner now but I will check it out :)

@EmC starts kicking sand ontop of the question

*steps in sand @apaul tracked all over the house*

*feels minor disgust*

Glad to know you care ;)

in other news, I can't really help with your question, but you have reminded me to text my aunt about the +1 im bringing to our Turkey day

thanks

Happy to help.

actually, I have an answer for your question as is

im new to sandbox etiquette, do I just wait until it gets posted in main?

@apaul ohhhhh, re: this I might throw a question in sandbox for some privilege/unmeant offense checking before posting. it would likely be HNQ bait, so now is the time to solidify and ask it i guess

now that I think about it though, it might be a dupe

@spiralsucculent of?

im pretty sure we already have a question for turning people down in clubs when hearing is not easy and most communication is non-verbal

I just want to confirm that the way I turn people down when they get a little too friendly is polite

I also realized that the title would be gender neutral, so its clickbait factor might be low

@spiralsucculent "is it polite?" type questions usually don't do well, better to just ask how to do the things.

yeah

"is my way of doing X polite?" is opinion based

but "how to do X? here's what i do right now" seems better

I think labeling things "click bait" is kinda lame. The problem is usually with how people react, not with the post itself.

@spiralsucculent This.

my question is about turning girls and guys down in a SF club

which I'd say isn't a unique, but is a specific environment in which a lot of stuff that people who are not me might find distasteful

SF club?

so I think the challenge is asking this question without alarming/offending people or causing other issues around what would be sexual assault if I felt differently

San Francisco

Ah

Sandbox it

Hard to get a bead on the context without context.

yeah

after work ill throw something in sandbox

Hmm... Just thought up a slightly more problematic question.

My partner likes the 1950's housewife aesthetic, and that kinda skirts the line of misogyny. She wants me to pick out an apron for her. How do I navigate this minefield?

kiss the cook apron

not really 1950s though

thats more 80s+

uh, whats the use case for this apron, fun or utility?

^ im not sure if this matters or is just my curiosity

Mostly utility...

It's for cooking, but she definitely wants to look cute while cooking.

I think talking about your discomfort with your partner is the way to go there tbh, is the implicit misogyny of nuclear family gender roles a factor (positive or negative) in how they think about this aesthetic? or are they not even considering it? Should the two of you care about how it will appear to somebody else and how they may interpret it?

Honestly, we've talked about this kind of thing in other contexts. She seems to like the aesthetic because it's gender affirming and it makes her feel attractive. I struggle because I've been trained not to go there in some of my previous relationships.

And we probably need not worry too much about outside interpretations/opinions? Although that's been a concern in other cases.

yeah, my guess is that people who are in your kitchen are trusted and understanding people

so outside interpretation would be minimal