The Awkward Silence

@AJ Ah, so it wasn't the brackets, it was the space

Fixed, thanks for the debugging :P

A J

@Tinkeringbell 0010000001010000011100100110111101100000000000000000000000000000 :P

@Tinkeringbell I deleted it in order to gain some thinking space without yet more digressional comments being added. I need time to properly sugar-coat a response.

@Snow Okay, but make sure to undelete it! It's a good answer and shouldn't go :) ... need help with the sugar coating?

(Really, it was my intent to get that discussion on track, not piss you off or gang up with Anne)

11:23 AM

I still believe that seeing the potential worth of a question has more worth than simply declaring that it's worthless.

@Snow Maybe use the one we did this morning to illustrate what you mean?

Adding something that's dissected into bite-sized parts is often a good idea on meta, it adds some down-to-earthness to an otherwise pretty conceptual answer :)

That's the behaviour of what I was talking about. Editing a post doesn't take ownership/responsibility away from the OP, they have every opportunity to clarify/reject. I did try to point that out, but apparently it's not enough.

And if you have an example of where things went wrong, that would be nice too ;)

Put a link in your answer ;) Link back to that meta Anne offered, point out the last example in that answer of mine too (if you feel you need another one).

Just mention something like 'I'm not talking editing in missing details, see: ... for an example of what this is supposed to be like'

And then hope Anne didn't go to sleep yet ;) Really, she's one of the nicest people I know around here...

~~Everyone~~ most people are nice around here ;)

@Mithrandir Hahaha, news flash! :P

Soo... it it a good idea to ask a question about culture shock in a co-worker?

I'm wondering whether to focus on IPS here or workplace solutions :/ Basically right now I'm like 'I'm done, I'm not even going to try, where's the damned manager when you need him?'

11:33 AM

Define "culture shock" in this respect?

What is the issue?

@Snow Someone from not the Netherlands being really upset about getting feedback

Apparently from what I could get from the rant is that that's not how things are done over at wherever they're from

@Mithrandir I just had to sit through lunch with a very new colleague (first time I see him around) bashing someone that told him to knock on a door before entering...

When I said 'Take it up with that person, not me' I got a rant for me as well.... :/

Apparently that was 'rude', I should adapt, respect them and their culture more, can't expect them off the bat to be able to take it and more boohoo's.

And reading that back I should reaaaally not post a question anyways, it would turn into rant

So, he didn't kneel before you and make you a sandwich?

@Snow Basically he ruined my lunch with unwanted conversation... but I somehow think pointing that out won't go over well either

The top 5 users of IPS have 9,98% of all answers on IPS

Q: How to stop an unofficial housemate from leaving cigarette ends in our plates and cups?

11:38 AM

0

I'm a student, living with four other non-students, who've all recently graduated. There's one girl, let's call her Sarah, who doesn't live here, but effectively she does; she stays around all the time, smokes cigarettes and weed in my housemate's room (that's another issue entirely) and eats foo...

Btw, I really missed that sandwich at lunch :/ :P

@Magisch Ah, so not 10 like Jefromi claimed! Comment battle ensues

I really hate people disturbing my lunch like that. I sometimes do that thing where I dramatically drop whatever I'm eating on the desk, smile and say "how can I help you" (with my mouth stiff full of sandwich).

@Snow Yeah, but I'm usually not at my desk when eating. I tend to eat a hot meal during lunch and the sandwich while commuting home (long commute). I think it's better etiquette to eat that meal in the common room where not every other person can smell it

But it does make walking away or dropping stuff a bit tricky... And you're basically expected to mingle a little when eating in that space :)

For sure. And I guess people interpret you being in the common room as you being open for discussion on stuff.

Interestingly, the top 5**%** of users have 78,17% of all answers here.

11:43 AM

And what percentage of users have only asked one question?

@Magisch Huh??? So the top 5 % of all users means sort them by rep, and then take 5 percent of all users right?

@ExtrovertedMainMan I really, really want to know whether they own an ashtray :P

Do you own an ashtray?
Yes: Goto 2
No: Goto 1

1: Buy an ashtray
2: Tell him to use it
3: Does he use it?
Yes: Goto Done
No: Goto 4
4: Hit him over the head with said ashtray
5: Goto 2

@JarkoDubbeldam Btw, I think I may have misread that. They're smoking in Claire's room and Claire apparently does use an ashtray.

So there is an ashtray

@Tinkeringbell then Goto 2

@JarkoDubbeldam I like it, post an answer :P

Make it a bit more IPS-y though, I don't want everyone to think non-IPS solutions are best :P

11:51 AM

@Tinkeringbell physical violence is IPS right?

@Tinkeringbell by # of answers

@JarkoDubbeldam I think that the 'interacting well' part comes in here... physical violence doesn't fit into the well category :P

@Magisch Ah.... okay :) I do believe there's a lot of users that just write one/leave a comment and never return, so that might not be a very disturbing statistic?

(check how it works on SO :P )

@Tinkeringbell my meta answer is undeleted. I'm not sure I sugar coated enough though (if at all).

@Snow I'll check :)

@Snow I like it, although I don't really know whether it's all that smart to point out 'it's within 2 votes from reopening' when there's clearly comments that need addressing before that is allowed to happen?

I blamed you for improving a question. Anyone rebutting my last comment is now implicitly telling you that you did wrong. Sorry about that.

11:56 AM

@Snow Puh.... if they can tell me why it was wrong (and I'm afraid 3 reopen votes is an argument)... I appreciate the feedback :)

I'm just pointing out that your edit resulted in reopen votes (i.e. a measurable improvement over zero)

@Snow Oh, like that :) Okay, but I still want to comment that such edits (to get the attention of an OP) are better done before something is put on hold ;)

May I?

Oh. Yes. I totally agree with that. Asking for clarification before a VTC is definitely a good thing.

It might even be better in the body of the answer.

@Snow Well, feel free to edit it in :)

The problem is that people have a knee-jerk reaction where they want bad questions immediately closed before improvements can be made (that's kind of the reason for "on hold").

Hmm. Maybe that's not a fight I'll get into right now - it'll just result in a shitstorm of more comments.

12:01 PM

If you don't VTC when leaving a comment, it might not get closed if they don't improve because you'll forget.

@Snow Thats supposed to work like this

You ask a bad question, it gets downvoted and closed immediately.

If you improve it, people can change their votes and reopen

Editing automatically puts it in the reopen votes queue, as well.

@Snow Yeah, but that ties in very closely with Jefromi's answer there, and what Catija mentioned: a blatantly off-topic question got answered within 5 minutes.... :/ We need more good questions for people to answer before we can even think about waiting 5 minutes between a comment and a close-vote

Thats why you can change your votes with no time limit after an edit to a post

@Mithrandir The best VTC votes come with a free comment explaining the vote and a suggestion of how to improve the question.

12:02 PM

Yes, of course.

@Tinkeringbell I also think we're suffering from the FGITW syndrome

New users feel like they have nothing to answer

@Snow Duh.... That's been reiterated here over and over :P How many meta's do you want on that? :P

I notice this myself unless I catch a question within like an hour it's not much point adding to the 5 other answers

People may think "the reason I'm VTCing is obvious", but funnily enough, OPs aren't psychic....

so tl;dr we need more questions, a lot more

12:03 PM

All you nerdy programmers need to interact more so that you have opportunities to ask more questions

turns out people are more comfortable sharing advice then laying bare their life for all to see.

@Magisch Yes, we need more questions. My meta answer is arguing against sending people away by shutting them down before they can stay engaged.

Hey, @Magisch, can I give you an English tip?

Nice to see some agreement here :)

@Mithrandir sure

12:05 PM

23 hours ago, by Mithrandir

For instance, telling @mag that 'than' and not 'then' is used when making a comparison

grr

;)

I do the same thing sometimes. My fingers make mistakes that my brain didn't authorise.

And the lack of red squiggles under the words make it ok to press the <enter> key.

gonna exercise restraint and not answer that last one

@Snow I have a plugin running that checks grammar as well ;) It's useful, sometimes. Other times it just ignores me because I type too fast :D

12:08 PM

Sure. Mag's English is pretty good, but that's a mistake that I've noticed repeatedly... I felt it was worth pointing out, if only because it bugged me :P

using then to describe comparisons is worse than using than to describe subsequent actions or events

that took a while to think up

I sniped you

using then?

or them*?

;)

@Magisch Yeah, that's not nice :P

@Magisch Nice SEDE.

@Magisch Can you do one that lists users with most helpful flags?

No, that's not available via SEDE.

12:14 PM

not information you can query via sede

Spoilers: I have the most.

@Magisch Not the ratio; just the numbers shown publicly on any profile. No?

@NVZ iirc no

no field on the users table, and flags aren't associated to accounts in the data dump

@Magisch Okay, so then the manual listing then.. Marshall badges and maybe among those, it's easier to list.

12:38 PM

@D.Hutchinson We (not only Mith) really tried to keep the SE side of this question out of it... That question shouldn't turn into a public cesspool of how to moderate SE and be a platform where users can voice their opinion on our moderators....

Other people might want to take a look at this as well: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/9459/1599

1:11 PM

@Tinkeringbell Seems to have been a lot going on there. I still think that this is one of those questions that need a culture tag. I guess you are referring to Snow's answer on meta? Possibly, but I'm not a mindreader. I commented on what the user wrote in that answer and so far they haven't changed it to clarify what they mean. And since my comments also weren't enough to show that there is still room left for improvement, I'm done there.

:( ... May I clarify for you? It relates closely to the Workplace meta bit (and mindset) I quoted [here](https://interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/1891/1599). ... Although the info isn't in the answer yet, how do you feel about the comments there?

A.) They agree that the edit didn't improve the question to the point of reopening.
B.) They do have a point that such an edit, were it made earlier in the process, along with the comments that are there now, would have increased the chances of the OP participating and having another good question on the site.

Also, have you read the chat transcript from this point? chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/42439916#42439916 (I don't know if you read everything since that message I left you :) )

A J

1:26 PM

what'd I miss?

got stuck in meeting

@AJ Just read the last 10 messages or so and you're up to date again... oh and you missed me ranting about a co-worker ruining lunch

@Tinkeringbell I'm a bit confused now. Do you mean the greeting question and what other improvements I think are necessary?

@AnneDaunted No, I mean the meta answer :D What would you like to actually see rephrased there, to be made more explicit?

I think that greeting question has got enough comments to keep it on hold until the OP comes back :)

@Tinkeringbell That whole part about editing, just like I commented before. Questions are being edited enough and always were. But if we get to the point where we need information from the OP and they abandonned their question, then there's nothing we can do. Also that whole part about native speakers - insinuating that this was a problem, not a lack of relevant details.

And in general the fight for keeping questions open - the point of putting them on hold is to give the OP the chance to edit them, without users writing answers. Is there any evidence that people afre so mean here and drive away new users with votes to close (that those users usually can't see anyway)? If it's an actual problem, why not stay and improve the question?

Hmm... then I'm afraid we're interpreting the answer very differently :/

If I look at what I did this morning on that greeting question, there's certainly something to say for 'being more active about editing and keeping an OP interested'....

I really do agree that if an OP abandons it there's nothing we can do, and I really believe Snow does realize that too....

As for the last part, I don't really know. I heard some noises several times in chat that my comments might be a bit too direct and would need some sugar-coating (really, I'm trying)... And it goes for other things as well. I do…

1:42 PM

It says in the biggest possible font: Keeping questions open

^That's a valid point, and I think one that @Snow can rephrase after all that's in the comments? Snow??

You might wanna step in there and edit (I could do it too but I know you're there :P ) That part of your answer is causing all the confusion here!

Certainly, questions are never closed when trivial edits suffice as I explained above. But if there is more to do and can be done without the OP's help (like when there is also a lot of info in comments, for example), it's still worth putting the question on hold, so that users do not answer half-finished questions.

@Tinkeringbell The President is currently occupied.

We've had cases where users fought for reopening / against closing a question, because they had written an answer - to a question containing back then three questions. interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/7044/…

Q: Stopping a relationship with a good friend because It's too overwhelming and new for me

0

Before anything, sorry about my english, It's not my first language... Context : I'm in my early forties and I've always been a loner and never really made friends. Until recently I didn't even know what was so great about them. I don't have any problems socializing, it's just I don't "need" i...

friends politeness europe

1:57 PM

Hmmm.. but Snow is arguing to tempt the OP of such questions to engage a bit more by making the edits for them (if they're providing info in comments but not in edits).... I think that's a valid point, if there's info in the comments and not requests for improvement, it's better to edit it (lead by example) than to close...

case 1: There's info and still also requests for clarification that weren't answered > In which case get the OP started with an edit AND vote to close
case 2: All requests for clarification are answered dutifully by the OP in comments, but we keep close-voting to the po…

@ExtrovertedMainMan (Also, we're getting a lot of disclaimers lately about English not being a first language, so maybe we are scary?)

What does that small edit to tempt them look like, if they are not providing the information?

@AnneDaunted A bit like what I did on the greeting question this morning :)

@ExtrovertedMainMan @AnneDaunted we might be able to use this one as an example too :)

The user already provided the info in comments, but pretend that it's not there.

Q: I'm bonded to my job, How to detach it?

0

I'm a software developer and in every company I've worked (I'm in the road has been 7 years), I have the feeling I'm not important, and they (managers) do not see me as a valuable asset for the company. Why do I have this feeling? Because in my previous job, the managers didn't hear me when I r...

work-environment

VTC as off-topic

Which of the two suggestions here is off-topic?

Are you asking us how to stop this relationship? Or how to tell your partner you'd like to stop this relationship? — Crazy Cucumber 12 mins ago

I think I'm done here.

2:04 PM

@Tinkeringbell That edit was fine

Wasn't it always handled like this?

@AnneDaunted No, not really.

We certainly have had points where we'd force an OP to choose, instead of saying: Only one of your options here is on-topic, so I'll edit if for you. If you disagree, feel free to rollback but then your question won't be a good fit for the site and is likely to get closed'

Also, see how the edit was made before the OP commented?

I was talking about the greeting question

@AnneDaunted Oh, no. That certainly isn't happening a lot. I had a short period of where I was really paying attention to that, but I'd like to let the fact that it had to take a whole day and a discussion in chat for me to step in again speak for itself :)

But that's what those sort of edits are supposed to look like. If you've been doing them, I'm sorry for not noticing, but I really think getting more community members involved in such things isn't a bad thing.

I guess the reason is that we are all volunteers who can't spend a whole day on it

@AnneDaunted Which is why we need a bit more community members that realize what a good question is, and for that we actually need to start training them from the bottom up... Edit questions like the greeting question and lead by example. Don't worry about editing a post that get's put on hold. Even if you only edit the title to reflect the body that will get attention :)

Hopefully, that way more users will learn what is expected of a question, and be able to step in to help keep even more questions open (by getting other OP's to provide details through initial edits)

Q: I'm bonded to my job, How to detach it?

2:15 PM

0

I'm a software developer and in every company I've worked (I'm in the road has been 7 years), I have the feeling I'm not important, and they (managers) do not see me as a valuable asset for the company. Why do I have this feeling? Because in my previous job, the managers didn't hear me when I r...

work-environment

@tink can you please drop a AiC comment on my question?

I try to help where I can, but my time is also limited. And I also do not always feel confident editing a question too much.

thanks

@AnneDaunted Which are both totally valid arguments. When lacking confidence, there's always chat ;) And the rest shall be trial and error.

Meh

2:26 PM

@Catija What?

Pain

Don't get old

@Catija If you have a suggestion on how not to do that, I'd be glad to hear it right now :)

I've been carrying Ben around on my hip more and more and I think it's completely wrecked my shoulder.

If I turn my head the wrong way, I get a shooting pain in my shoulder blade.

@Catija Oh ugh.... that doesn't sound good... maybe it's time to stop carrying him then?

But it's the only time he lets me snuggle him. :(

WELZ

2:39 PM

@Catija after recent events... I think that's all he wants to do Lol

@WELZ :D

Hey @cat

Have you seen the SEDE query I made to satisfy your curiosity about answering numbers?

@Catija Ah... Maybe it's a cycle? He know he doesn't have to walk as long as he refuses snuggles at other times?

Hey @Magisch I wrote that comment when I was still half asleep but I think that it's a good thing to keep in mind... that page should say what the rules are and not why... if that makes sense? I'll bet there's more explanation of why that can be pulled out, too, we just need to be sure it's supported on meta?

So, stop carrying him and after a while he'll long for a snuggle and come to you :P

2:42 PM

@Tinkeringbell If he wants to be picked up, I have to be standing and moving. If I sit down and put him in my lap, he gets mad and goes and does something else until I stand up again, and then he wants to be picked up. :/

@Catija Hey, I'm not a parent :P I just seem to remember the youngest brother going through a similar phase, and in the end my mom just never picked him up again, but that was replaced with snuggling up to watch Sesame Street or read a book :)

How old was he when that happened?

@Catija 1,5 or something like that, around the age where they get pretty heavy to carry around for long times :P

He's around 25 lbs right now.... about 11.5 kg?

@Catija Yep, that's pretty heavy :)

2:45 PM

@Catija ok

As in, heavy enough to not carry him for extended periods of time any more...

Not saying he's fat! :/

@Magisch Looking at it now... That average time to answer seems a bit high in some cases... It'd be interesting to see the median there maybe?

@Tinkeringbell But he's so cute and he fits right there and I can kiss his head.

wait

@Catija You're responsible for your own torture then ;)

@Magisch You know I don't know coding...

2:47 PM

Lemme mull that over again

might have missed something

@Magisch Not necessarily... maybe you could pull the time to answer data for a specific user and we can compare it to the average there?

Gimme a couple minutes for that

@Catija? After some conversation, the answer was edited. Do you still think this applies?

interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2403/…

TheTinyMan

Morning! :-)

@Tinkeringbell I don't see why it doesn't. The opening paragraphs still tell people not to close vote questions for some unspecified amount of time. We do not have the people to babysit a question for two hours or a day or however long waiting for it to be edited before finally casting a close vote.

... and in that time, how many answers has it collected? ... no. That's not gonna fly.

2:58 PM

@Catija Seems to check out: data.stackexchange.com/interpersonal/query/790049/…

Maybe outliers are skewing it hard

@Catija Hmm... Well, at least I know that's absolutely not the intent of this OP. So that means the answer needs more editing ;) I'll get back to you on that :)

@Magisch Yeah... one question that you wait a week to answer or three months would really throw it off... that's why I was talking about a median instead.

> Asking for clarification before stabbing the VTC button.

^ That implies not close voting at the same time.

Oh @Catija I'm not sure if it's a duplicate of this, so maybe I can just ask you :) Is it possible to substitute lemon zest for lemon juice?

Asking for clarification is 100% necessary and everyone should be doing it... but it is not an either/or situation.

oh nvm, found another question that answers that

3:03 PM

@Catija Yeah for me it's thrown off by one post: data.stackexchange.com/interpersonal/query/790049/…

Q: How to ask people not to kill insects

0

Humans have judged value of life by size since beginning of the universe. When something sweet is leaved in my kitchen, thousands of ants come and then they are killed by my mother. How do I tell people that it is wrong? What else can we do to prevent insects dying?

politeness india how-to-help

@Magisch Ouch, yeah... probably need a way to kill off anything outiside an SD or two... though I'm not sure that's possible.

Is that insect question even answerable?

I think the premise is kinda silly, so idk

@AnneDaunted Any question of the form "How can I ask x?" can be answered "Just tell them x."

3:11 PM

@Catija thanks, that helps :)

@sphennings Touché

I see a lot of questions on this site asking one thing when they're really looking for something else. "How to tell my friend to stop trying to set me up?" isn't about telling your friend that it's about getting them to stop setting you up.

My flag back then was disputed, now it got a voting count of 14: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/9395/2625

I still do not see the value in that answer, even the added second paragraph with the claim that only the two potential partners can solve the problem

3:30 PM

@Catija Here I excluded answers from more then a day after the question was asked from the average time to answer: data.stackexchange.com/interpersonal/query/789908/…

3:54 PM

@Magisch that makes more sense... can you add something that indicates how many or what percentage of that person's answers apply?

Q: How to politely interrupt a recruiter during phone call

0

About a year and a half ago I was waist deep in a job search. Having found a new job, I've since attempted to remove my resume from the internet. However, this hasn't stopped recruiters from finding my phone number. This has become an increasing issue while I'm at work. Recruiters will call, I...

conversations united-states work-environment politeness phone-calls

Okay... @Catija, sorry to bother you about that one again, but I confirmed with the OP that they really don't mean to leave questions open for any longer than necessary.

I helped them with another edit, if you don't find anything else that's suggestive of 'leave bad questions open' would you mind cleaning up the comments a bit and undeleting it? Otherwise, feel free to point out anything we didn't see, and we'll work on it a little further :) https://interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2406/1599

4:07 PM

@Tinkeringbell Wouldn't it have been easier for you to just write a new answer expressing those points? Less work for you, no need to undelete and you are not enabling such behavior. I do not see why the OP of that answer can't edit it themself if they don't think it expresses their feelings about the matter.

I'm not trying to enable deleting something everytime you get a comment that you disagree with, absolutely not.

If I were to post my own answer, I would have had to take the time to correct the one that was already there. The only difference would have been that it would be posted under my name. I'm not fond of that because it's my own meta question anyways.

I have provided the OP with feedback on how to better word things on meta/how to react to comments, and I really want to encourage them to be a part of this community too. So, I talked with them, found out that they meant something di…

@Catija data.stackexchange.com/interpersonal/query/789908/…

@Magisch Nice :D

@Tinkeringbell You're asking people for input into how the site is going. As a user on the site your opinions matter too.

@Catija side effects of coding TSQL every day for work

4:16 PM

@sphennings Oh, sure they do. But that's not the problem here ;)

@Tinkeringbell If Snow is happy with the answer as it stands, he can undelete it unilaterally. If the people who wrote comments agree that their concerns have been addressed, they can remove them but by me undeleting the answer and removing the comments... it can look a bit odd?

hah, and Snow is making a stand right now and wants to see the community undelete it.... Guess that's a stalemate then

@Magisch It's really interesting to see who primarily answers questions that are under a day old and who spreads it out more.

@Tinkeringbell So what is going on then? Someone deleted their own answer on meta...

@Tinkeringbell I'm not going to force his answer to exist. If he doesn't want to participate in the site, that's his choice. @AnneDaunted @Tinkeringbell if you think your concerns have been met, feel free to remove your comments.

HAHAHA. I've never answered a question that's more than a day old: 303 - 0 excluded

4:20 PM

@Catija I'm one of those who answers questions primarily while they're fresh

often times, when a question is older, someone has already provided a perspective close to mine so I upvote that instead

@sphennings It's some hurt feelings and feeling underappreciated, together with a struggle to clearly express what they're wanting to say... I edited their answer because otherwise I would feel like plagiarizing ideas and pulling rank

and I'm going to be stubborn about this, for those wondering. I feel like that answer belongs there and should be there. And I'm going to nag about it until at least 2 other people have agreed and undeleted it.

@Tinkeringbell It's not called "stalemate", it's called kindergarden.

@Tinkeringbell If they don't want the answer they deleted undeleted by voting to undelete it you are pulling rank on them. I don't know how they will respond to this vs. you writing your own answer but it's something to consider.

"How do I decline the cake that a senior citizen is offering me because I don't know if it's kosher when neither of us have a language in common?"

@Mithrandir Why would cake have meat in it? :P

Also, isn't everything kosher there?

4:31 PM

kosher != no meat and milk

There are a lot more rules than that.

And no, someone's homemade cake is not necessarily kosher.

In the end it resolved itself - we had someone to translate and it turned out it was kosher - but it got me thinking.

... joke... sigh

Sorry, I have trouble telling when people are joking sometimes...

The :P didn't help?

I missed it...

4:51 PM

Morning folks

@Mithrandir thats a religious thing, right?

@apaul evening'

How goes?

Kashrut (also kashruth or kashrus, כַּשְׁרוּת‬) is a set of Jewish religious dietary laws. Food that may be consumed according to halakha (Jewish law) is termed kosher ( in English, Yiddish: כּשר‎) , from the Ashkenazi pronunciation of the Hebrew term kashér (כָּשֵׁר‬), meaning "fit" (in this context, fit for consumption). Among the numerous laws that form part of kashrut are the prohibitions on the consumption of certain animals (such as pork, shellfish [both Mollusca and Crustacea], and most insects, with the exception of certain species of kosher locusts), mixtures of meat and milk, and the...

Another school shooting in the US today... 1 killed 5-7 injured.

5:04 PM

Two days in a row. :(

Whoa? Did anyone else's UI just change on the main site? I'm seeing the new top bar on mobile Chrome.

I don't like it. :/

@Mithrandir Ya. I'm not a big fan either.

Looks like it's mobile only?

I don't see any changes on the full site view.

@Catija interesting, these things don't even hit the news in the Netherlands anymore

5:09 PM

@JarkoDubbeldam They barely make the news here. I heard one sentence about it on the radio and had to look it up.

:/

I dont think it. He or she us working on literarure.stackexchange — H. Pauwelyn 31 secs ago

Does anyone know what that's supposed to mean?

@Mithrandir English as a second language? No idea what the mixed pronouns are about, but it looks like they're saying that it's not working on literature SE?

I'm not sure what is buggy about iBug's post either

@JarkoDubbeldam "Eeeeeek! You changed my UI without warning me!"

5:21 PM

@apaul EEEEEEK! change :shudders:

The two things users don't like

The way things are, and change.

complain about how things are, then things change. Complains don't change along though

Am I the only one seeing this on mobile web?

It looks like the top bar is slightly wider than the rest of the body.

Looks fine on Meta.SE with the new top bar, not sure if it's IPS specific though.

shame on me, I forgot to add a culture tag to my question

@JarkoDubbeldam It's a sign of the end of days...

5:27 PM

@Catija do you know how long it takes to get a turnaround on an accounts merge request?

@apaul :(

@apaul I'd put it on MSE if there's not already a similar issue there. The mobile view is always on topic on MSE, regardless of whether it's single site or not.

@JarkoDubbeldam The CMs have to do it. Did you request a merge?

@Catija ye

How long ago?

this morning, so like 8 hours ago

I kinda messed some stuff up

Oh, give it a few days and then check in... most of the CMs are in the US and it's barely lunch time for them.

5:28 PM

fair enough

If you don't get anything by... Thursday? let me know and I'll poke them.

the form said that they'd be in touch shortly, so I wondered whether that's hours, days or weeks :p

6-8 something... :P Apparently not hours.

xd

5:29 PM

Mine looks okay

anyways, there is a mod flag sitting somehwere explaining the situation, it's kinda derpy

Ah, I see it... did you just flag that post or did you actually fill out the contact us page?

I can submit a merge request for you, too but I don't want to double up if you already sent one.

@Catija I filled out the form

Q: Misalignment in top bar on mobile web

0

With the roll out of the new top bar on Interpersonal Skills SE I'm seeing a slight misalignment. Looks like the top bar is a bit wider than the rest of the body: I'm seeing this in on an Android phone using Chrome.

bug top-bar

@apaul really tempted to leave a typical works on my machine though comment :/

5:40 PM

@Tinkeringbell Do you have a large screen/phone?

@apaul a OnePlus 5t... Don't know the screen size... Not that big I'd say

But judging from the screenshots mine is bigger than yours

@Tinkeringbell if I tip my phone and look at it in landscape it's fine. I suspect it's borked because someone hard-coded a width or more likely a font size.

By the way... I'm trying not to have it be a problem but I'm trying out some new mod scripts and ... um... I may accidentally decline a couple of comment flags... the X for delete comment and for dismiss flag are... kinda easy to mix up.

@apaul that's pretty useful info for a developer. You might want to add that?

@Catija I want more home baked cake pictures to make up for the ruined accepted flags scores :P

@Tinkeringbell HAHAHA

5:44 PM

@Tinkeringbell I'm sure they'll know what it is as soon as they look at it. It's a common problem with mobile web development... "Works on my phone" is a trap that gets most of us once in a while.

@apaul I'll take your word for it. I've never done any UI work ever..

@Catija seriously! That script should free up time for baking :)

Oh... Wow... I'd hate to be who ever rolled out the update today. SE has a heap of users who jump at a chance to punch up a bug report.

They're reverting it for now :)

I'm sure someone's in full panic mode scrambling to fix it and handle the growing heap of bug reports.

Heh. @AdamLear can probably tell you what's happening more than me ;)

5:50 PM

@Mithrandir Just thanking my lucky stars that no one looks at my stuff so critically lol

There, reverted. I'll go back to using the desktop version now :P

6:06 PM

So... Anyway...

6:35 PM

I've never undeleted someone else's meta until today.

Is this actually a real concern? interpersonal.stackexchange.com/q/9309/98

I'm just totally baffled as to where the issue is

And I read all the comments and answers - I just don't get it

@RoryAlsop Welcome to the edge of your cultural fishbowl.

2

@sphennings I reckon

but what is the worry?

TBH I don't get it either.

oh :-)

6:40 PM

Propriety or something maybe.

@RoryAlsop ask me. I can relate to that OP.

@NVZ what would the problem be, then?

@NVZ What gives?

@NVZ In honesty I'd just be interested to hear your experiences with that because it's something I don't experience.

@RoryAlsop In my place(s), we do not enter another house when the man of the house is away, even if they're really close friends.

\o/ managed to do a wheelie

6:41 PM

@NVZ yeah - I get that, but why? What is the concern?

does the man not trust you? do you not trust yourself? does the woman not trust you?

@RoryAlsop 1. It's been that way. 2. A potential cause for "bad image".

I can't envisage letting my kids play in a house if I trusted the parent that little.

Avoiding the appearance of impropriety.

@NVZ Culturally where are you from?

@RoryAlsop It's often not about trust. It's about "boundaries". Men simply do not enter another man's house when he's away. It's like that in most, like 90% of traditional Indian and Arabic homes.

6:44 PM

@NVZ tradition then, not lack of trust?

@NVZ Would that apply to children going over to play without the parents in tow?

I think that's part of why it seems strange.

@RoryAlsop I mean, imagine my friend and his wife trusts me with their life. I still do not enter his house unless I go there with my wife or unless he himself is there to greet me. Something about men being the person in charge of the house.

@NVZ Ahh - here the man is not the person in charge of the house. Nor is the woman. It's the parents' house.

@apaul For children, I think, OP's concern is that he's not well-acquainted with the neighbour, so he is not sure he can let his kids go there unsupervised by either him or his wife. It's his personal reasons.

@RoryAlsop It is a single mother though so....

6:47 PM

I mean, I have gone on tour with the band and our female dancers while my wife stayed at home . Not even a thought of impropriety as we just wouldn't do that. That whole "impropriety" thing is just not within my comprehension, which is why I am trying to get it

@RoryAlsop Also, often, unlike in big cities of the US, in places like mine in India, word spreads fast, like real fast. And a simple gossip like "I saw NVZ visiting XYZ's wife yesterday" would go on to become absurd stuff like "NVZ is having an affair with..." and whatnot. We simply do not let such a chance be.

@RoryAlsop Culture, my friend, is different everywhere.

@NVZ wow. Here if someone said that to my wife she'd laugh them out of the place. Gossip is the least important of all conversations here.

@NVZ totally

Which is why I like to understand

As I do work occasionally in India. Admittedly mostly in Mumbai, Bangalore and New Delhi - and mostly office then hotel, so risk of making a faux pas is slim, but I'd like to know why to avoid certain things

@RoryAlsop It's a thing that's faded away over here, but there are still people who hold to those traditions. In the US some evangelical christians still do it, and I think the Amish and Mennonites do it as well.

@RoryAlsop One reason for gossips spreading fast is, population density is high, and jobless people find gossiping to be a fun timepass.

@apaul with those groups I have the same question - is it that they don't trust themselves or the other person? Or that they'd rather believe a gossip who suggests something dubious rather than the people they know, love and trust?

6:52 PM

There are many cases of neighbours intentionally ruining marriage proposals. I'm referring to cases of "arranged marriages" as is the norm in India. These gossips hurt the arranging process.

@NVZ but why are they listened to or believed?

surely they are known to be gossips

@RoryAlsop I dunno. Narrow mindedness, I think. I for one can stand outside of that realm and say these things. I was raised among multiple cultures here in the UAE. I've seen a lot of the world to think better, but locals of my native place, they live and die in the same village for generations. They maintain such traditions.

@NVZ :-(

I think part of it has to do with gender roles. As in "What business would you have going there?" Women take care of children and home life, if a man were seen in that role it would be scandalous, and that being the case there's assumed to be other motives for a man visiting an unattended woman.

@apaul Yes, point.

If I were seen entering XYZ's house while he's away, onlookers would start with "what's NVZ doing there?" and go on from there.

In most our Indian houses, we have a big "sitout" area, where men talk. Women go inside, and don't necessarily sit and gossip with men. They do talk, but not as freely as seen in the US/EU.

Times, they are a changing, however.