01:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

1:30 AM
@Davislor I've resisted making my own collection of .fontspec files because of the maintenance aspects (and to be honest I'm not really sure how much CTAN/TeX Live should be encouraging endless fonts to be distributed and shipped if they're OTF only). I'd prefer instead to publicise the process a bit more so that font packages can choose to include their own .fontspec files directly in their bundles.

1:48 AM
@WillRobertson I agree, the font package would be a logical place to put them. Thanks for the reply.
@WillRobertson After all, it's the packager who knows when an update added a new font face, or a new font feature.
@WillRobertson Don't a lot of OTF packages also distribute a T1+TS1 version?

2:26 AM
@WillRobertson Of course, most OTF packages just set up the font family for you, which might use .fontspec files or not.

1 hour later…
3:45 AM
how do you guys search tex?
is there a well feasible/easy way?
pattern matching is what I am looking for
similar to mathematica

You mean, search a .tex document? I use a text editor with regex search.

3 hours later…
6:31 AM
The problem with imgur was solved partially... btw I can't see the @WillRobertson picture here in chat (when I tag him I can see his profile photo in the tag rectangle!!). This is so weird... and here is really cold 😰

2 hours later…
8:30 AM
@manooooh I never even saw all these imgur problems, here in Norway. Everything has just looked as always to me, except for all the talk about imgur failing. I haven't tried uploading any pictures, though – just been (mostly) lurking here on chat.

8:52 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen you are lucky ;). Ok, I ask me why this is not a problem in a different country... Here in my phone seems to be all OK

9:27 AM
@manooooh Well, I'm not well versed in how big services like imgur work, but I am pretty sure they don't serve the entire world from a single server in a single location. There may be a mix of DNS tricks and IP routing tricks involved in selecting the server closest (in some sense) to the requestor. So maybe I am just lucky in having my images served from a healthy server. As for what is really going on, one can speculate that there is a DDoS attack against imgur.

9:48 AM
Quack!

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh no
@HaraldHanche-Olsen you are mean

Apr 9 at 14:40, by Paulo Cereda
@HaraldHanche-Olsen: you are not mean :)

@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh

@PauloCereda Now that's established, do you use the “standard” oracle-supplied jdk to run arara? Or are there viable alternatives? (I hate the oracle web site and the rigmarole they make you go through to download this thing.)

9:59 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Technically, you can use "any" virtual machine vendor to run arara. :) I use it with OpenJDK, but I know it works with Oracle, Azul and another vendor I forgot the name...

@PauloCereda Okay thanks, I'll check out OpenJDK first, then.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Which system do you use?

@PauloCereda macOS. Currently running the Mojave pubic beta on my personal laptop. I see that I can get openjdk through macports, maybe I'll try that.
@PauloCereda Oh, the openjdk home page only mentions linux, but at the download page, they admit they distribute binaries for macos as well. Perhaps it's easier to go that route.

@HaraldHanche-Olsen For macOS, I use somethin "different", but I am a developer. :) If you want to take a look at this project: sdkman.io It offers lots of versions of vendors, including Oracle. And the tool does it automatically without the need of taking you through the Oracle website.

@PauloCereda can you run it on emacs lisp?

10:12 AM
@DavidCarlisle not yet...

@PauloCereda shame

@DavidCarlisle you are mean

Jun 29 '17 at 16:15, by Paulo Cereda
@DavidCarlisle you are not mean :)

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@PauloCereda 5136
@PauloCereda you should stop messing around completing thesis and running tex conferences and get Psmith back to automate these exchanges so we don't have to be here.

10:15 AM
@DavidCarlisle ooh automation

@PauloCereda that would be 5137 then

@DavidCarlisle ooh recursion

@PauloCereda \def\o{o\o}\o h

@DavidCarlisle no tail recursion? :)

@DavidCarlisle Will there be an h in the (ω+1)th position, then?
@PauloCereda sdkman looks a bit like overkill for me. I am not a capital-D Developer, just a sometimes casual lower-case-d developer.

10:23 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen completely understandable. :)

10:39 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes but @PauloCereda is a computer scientist and macro person not a mathematical logician, so I expect he'll want to run it to test it empirically and check where the h appears.

@DavidCarlisle ooh experimental science
"Someone -- perhaps David -- will try to break the tool"
Meanwhile in Australia...

10:56 AM
@DavidCarlisle And when he finds it, he'll finish whatever … whatever it is he's working on. I can't wait.

11:32 AM
@PauloCereda I installed OpenJDK by hand to a location of my choosing, put its jdk-10.0.2.jdk/Contents/Home/bin subdirectory in PATH, and lo and behold, arara --help works. I assume it will work when I ask it to do real work too, then. And not an oracle-tainted bit in sight.

11:51 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh!

12:02 PM
@PauloCereda 5138?

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh more counters

@PauloCereda Shall we keep going until we get to ω?

12:14 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ooh I like this idea

12:46 PM
anyone around?

1:43 PM
@DavidCarlisle Markus wrote me that he has already sent a new version to CTAN -- and that he no longer will maintain marginnote ...

1:54 PM
@UlrikeFischer it was added because \marginnote dis not work when executed from within listings

let's say I want to find all sin functions containing a number
is there a way to search for this?
regex seems like it would be limiting
because latex is a formatting language not evaluation langauge

@daleif lets hope that the new version handles both problems - it looked rather odd when suddenly all my side remarks were a few points above the line.

2:28 PM
30

I was asked to give a talk at a workshop. I plan to tell a short story, 5 - 7 minutes, about how my collaborator and I came up with the idea presented in the talk. This story would: Give the motivation: I have this problem, and my collaborator had a solution for a (seemingly) unrelated problem....

But ducks would be okay, of course.

@UlrikeFischer But, why would a parboxrestore move the placement?

@daleif No idea, I didn't try to trace it, but it was in some odd place and the list parameters seemed to interfere.

2:50 PM
@William Can you give an example of an expression you're searching for that wouldn't match a simple regex?
@William And are false positives a problem? Are you, a human, looking at the results and able to say, "Oh nope," or is this being passed to some kind of script?

taking the sin as an example
it can be written 2 ways
well at leoast
\sin 20
\sin(20)
so do I just create a conditional regex
@Davislor
my issue is being well inclusive
in matematica
all you do is well Cases[Sin[23],Sin[x_]]
all Sin's have to be like that
there is no script
I'm trying to search all equations for specific functions
but I have realized even Mathematic's output of Mathml and latex aren't well always the same
doing javasscript
I could do
"\\sin 20".match(/\\sin [0-9]*/)
but that is hardly inclusive
I am less concerned about false positives and more about not getting enough results
there has to be a middle ground of retrieving all definitions of sin no matter the contenst and custom writing for all input scenarios

3:07 PM
Today I reloaded the front page and TeX.SX turned ugly :(
5

TeX.SX lol I guess it makes sense being the tex site

Probably something like \sin[\{\s]+\d+(\.\d+)?[\}]? (untested).

yes hmm

That of course isn't perfect, because no regex can for example match braces. It also doesn't catch \sin \pi or such.

matching latex with regex is a bit like matching html with regex
I had assumed and hoped there was a library or query language

3:12 PM
Yes, that's a good analogy. But you can probably assume that the TeX code is well-formed, so your regex doesn't need to detect mismatched braces.
Well, you can always redefine \sin to log the contents of #1 and check the log file?

I am new to latex please explain
if you don't mind

Well, simple answer: just search for the string \sin (not as a whole word, but case sensitive) and manually determine whether what's inside is a number.

this a simple example sure
so like
How do you redefine a command

I'm not sure I fully understand what you need?

@Skillmon uhhh, that is not even funny

3:19 PM
If I understand you correctly, you would redefine a command with \renewcommand. As a beginner, I'd suggest you start by just searching for \sin or the regex \\sin\b, and help me resist the temptation to write something really complicated.

lol okay well I know regex
well enough

That's good. :)

not ideal but does work in this case

I should have asked this sooner, though: what's the actual purpose?

ohh well I was trying to transition off mathematica
using open source stuff
and just curious if latex had come up with a solution

3:22 PM
Wow the new site design is far worse than I could have imagined.
8

Is today doomsday? What happened to the nice layout of our site?
2

@marmot Welcome to the new world order.

Well, LaTeX isn't an IDE or a text editor, although there are editors such as TeTeX that are designed for it.

yeah wtf happened to the site this is the worse site I have dealt with

The editor I happen to use can highlight LaTeX syntax, but what it supports for searches is regex.

3:24 PM
What happend to the questions bar, users, etc...
somebody hide it with CSS by accident

@William it's now a cool refreshing all new side bar which follows you on your way down the page :(
@William it's on the left.

@Skillmon nothing for me
just no bar
nothing on the left or right
I search for "Users" nothing comes up on the page

@William -- i believe there's an option for turning off the left bar. maybe you did that by accident.

At least in mobile there is no more manual set of the main page (full site mode, not in app)

ahh maybe it pulled over the SO setting
I may have turned it off there

3:28 PM
the problem i'm having is that the font is smaller than i'm used to (which was already very small, according to anybody who looks at my screen). i guess magnifying reading glasses will be in order now.

@William

yeah figured that out right before you posted
the site inconsistency is silly to me but oh well

@samcarter help! My duck on the main side is gone. I want it back ;-)

@barbarabeeton :(

@UlrikeFischer I want the old main site back, not only your duck.
2

3:30 PM
@UlrikeFischer I'm just trying to find out where the new headline is defined....

is there an editor that displays alpha as a unicode alpha
anyone know

There is no option for change to the another style? ._.

@William I don't get what you want. You mean the unicode char alpha in a TeX editor? Shouldn't almost every editor be able to do so (provided the used font contains it)?

@samcarter while you are on it: If you see a setting to make the white less white that would be great too - it hurts my eyes ;-(

My VIM sure does display unicode alpha if I type it
@UlrikeFischer same here
@manooooh no, the SO team is trying to slim down the efforts to support all those individual site designs by removing all those individual site designs.

3:33 PM
@Skillmon I may not being clear I am using the online editor right now

@UlrikeFischer Making the tags {} again would also be good...

@William which online editor? Overleaf or ShareLaTeX? Or do you mean something else? Do you mean you want to display the alpha in your editor, or in the produced PDF?

produced pdf
I'm using a skammy latex editor I found on google let me try one of those

@William so you want to be able to type in alpha like so α and the PDF should contain an alpha?

yes
I am coming from mathematica
so I like how it does this

3:36 PM
@Skillmon oh, anyway that should not be an impediment to continue contributing to the site!

@William that's a matter of setting up inputenc the correct way. I think there is a question regarding that on the site, let me search for a while.

where are the braces around TeX ? that was one feature that we were very definitive about!!!

@barbarabeeton I see braces

@barbarabeeton my site has braces around the TeX heading (see my screenshot somewhere above)

3:38 PM

@UlrikeFischer -- i don't see braces. i know my monitor is flaky, but this is a disaster!

this seems to suggest I can manually define them
which is insane
if I have to do it that way

@UlrikeFischer Changing the background colour can be done with
// ==UserScript==
// @name        _TeX SE, Swap color
// @match       *://tex.stackexchange.com/*
// @run-at      document-start
// ==/UserScript==

GM_addStyle ( 
#content {
background-color:#AFF !important;
}
);
I just need a good colour. Any suggestions?

@William Use a UTF-8 aware engine (XeLaTeX or LuaLaTeX).

is there one online? hmm and it should just work?

3:41 PM
@samcarter dark grey with bright text :) I wished the whole internet was coloured that way.

@William Both ShareLaTeX and Overleaf can use any of the main engines. But it's still not clear from your questions what you're actually trying to do.

I want to type α and have it display α
α input and α output
no typing \alpha

@William In math mode or text mode?

@William in math or in text or both?

ideally math mode
but either is an improvement

\usepackage{alphabeta}
@William

I would think if I type a unicode character it should display
I mean unicode/utf-8 is the standard
de facto anyways

\documentclass[]{article}

\usepackage{alphabeta}

\begin{document}
αβγ
$αβγ$
\end{document}

trying unicode-math

@Skillmon This is incompatible with unicode-math (which was my suggestion).

3:46 PM
@William works with pdfTeX

@William Only if your font contains it. UTF-8 is an input encoding. Font encoding is different.

@AlanMunn so? My suggestion works, too, not using unicode-math. I don't know the pros and cons.

@AlanMunn this is not a font issue
\alpha displays fine
well unless it using a different font I guess

@Skillmon I wasn't criticizing, just observing.

@William did you try my MWE? α in text mode displays differently from α in math mode.

3:49 PM

hmm it sounds like the easiest way is to do a search and replace of utf-8 characters to the \alpha equivalents
then it should work in most any editor
with any setting
is there a conversion tool between different editor formats maybe?
sort of like coffeescript -> JS
transpiler is the term we use on SO

@William I have no idea what this means. TeX files are plain text files. What's an "editor format" for you?

but it seems to be because of the different options you can't have a set of text that will no matter the context of the options
except for a few exceptions
I'll come back with more questions later downloading an editor right now to have a local one on my computer

@UlrikeFischer I started a collection: tex.meta.stackexchange.com/q/7787/36296
10

@samcarter Ah good. Do you know a good value for the yellow we had until now?
@samcarter I also think that the picture is still there, it is only not placed good.

3:56 PM
@JosephWright @StefanKottwitz Can you make @samcarter 's comment sticky here.

which latex editor has all the features :P
is there one considerde to have the most

@William Emacs has all possible features for all possible situations in all possible worlds.

@William The editor doesn't matter so much, nowadays all can handle utf8. You want to change the way pdflatex/lualatex handles the alpha, that's not an editor problem.

@UlrikeFischer See my updated answer tex.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7788/36296
@UlrikeFischer That would be good, so we just need to upload a new image which is cropped correctly. Let me test, I'll report back.

4:05 PM
is there an editor that supports inspect element?
if you are familiar with developer tools in chrcome
so highligh something and it jumps to that spot in the text
or tree(if there is one)
installing TexStudio now
maybe I can rig something if outputs with html/javascrip/css

@William Many editors support synctex which gives you that functionality. Backwards search from PDF to source depends on your previewer.
@William Just to be clear, you also need a TeX distribution. The editor doesn't come with it.

searching TexStudio plugins
now

@samcarter Your script doesn't seem to work for me (FF 61.0 Mac).

@AlanMunn mmmm, works for me on FF52

anyone on windows with a sane packagemanager text installation system
I wish I was ubuntu right now

4:18 PM
@William TeX Live for Windows is fine, and so is MikTeX. Both very good distributions.

@marmot Let us mourn.

@TRiG Good idea. I think even Ikea would come up with a more appealing design. ;-)

@marmot It's just bland.

texlive & miktex aren't guis though
right

/quacks in despair because of the awful layout
6

4:21 PM
@TRiG Well, in a few months I will again go to hibernate. Why didn't they just postpone the changes till then?

Hi mr. @marmot!

@PauloCereda Hi Dr. Duck!

@marmot ooh

@Skillmon Ah, it is your fault then? ;-)

I'll be back on debian in a bit

4:23 PM
@PauloCereda See my comment to the meta post.

windows is well being stupid thxs

has the tx.sx frontend been updated and restyled?

@naphaneal Unfortunately, yes. Now we have a clone of SO.

@egreg upvoted

@William I think you're missing lots of basic information. Try this: tex.stackexchange.com/q/66470/2693 for an overview of the relevant pieces.

4:29 PM
@UlrikeFischer Oh, you found the code - that is great!

Oh I am definitely missing some basic stuff but trying to install packages which is where I am having issues.

@UlrikeFischer ^^^^

@William I'm not sure that's really the case; your questions reveal some conceptual issues about how you think things work. Once you've installed a full distribution, installing packages should be either trivial or not necessary. (Unless by 'packages' you mean the actual software, which isn't quite how 'package' gets used in LaTeX.)

Considering this is cross os switching to debian certainly won't hurt
not suggesting I don't have gaps in my knowledge

@William But in that case, it's better not to use the Debian package manager to install... tex.stackexchange.com/q/1092/2693

4:41 PM
Trivial but annoying aspect of the new layout: I've always used the {TeX} logo to get back to the main page, it's now smaller and in the 'wrong' place ... of course I will get use to it

@samcarter Are you using a Mac?

@samcarter you left some space for future beings;-)

@AlanMunn yes
@UlrikeFischer who knows what the future will bring?

thank you
figured it out

5:01 PM
Not sure who to report this to, but just noticed an incompatibility between babel and fontspec. The language japanese is set to use Script=Japanese in babel, but fontspec expects Script=Kana. Furthermore, \babelprovide[script=Kana]{japanese} does not work.

perl force quits when install Tex Live everytime
should have mentioned that
I might try my Mac or Debian computer

Okay, the workaround \babelprovide[import=ja, script=Kana]{japanese} appears to, but still, bug.

Thanks to the efforts of @samcarter and @MarcelKrüger , there is a way to make the redesign just about palatable!

5:29 PM
@Davislor babel-japanese is maintained here: github.com/texjporg/babel-japanese
@samcarter there is also place in the side bar, one can use .left-sidebar to get background images there ;-).

@UlrikeFischer I switched the sidebar off, not enough space on my screen...

these tex installations really don't like my computer I'll try the text only installation

@AlanMunn ok, I pinned it on top

so searching miktex and inputenc is not an available package
I'll assume luainputenc
is the same thing
This is XeTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-0.99999 (MiKTeX 2.9.6730 64-bit)
entering extended mode
(test.tex
! Undefined control sequence.
l.1 \documentclass
{article}
from this input
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[mathletters]{ucs}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}

\begin{document}
The vorticity $ω$ is defined as $ω = ∇ × u$.
\end{document}
XeLaTex worked okay
nevermind didn't work because the characters are blank must be a font issue

5:51 PM
@William no it isn't. and don't use inputenc and ucs with xelatex or lualatex

I got the code off this site(not that it is right) pleas go on
I want utf-8 math characters to display

@William it depends on the engine what you should do. The unicode engines xelatex and lualatex are very different here compared to pdflatex.

I was told above to use xelatex for utf-8 character support
\documentclass{article}

\begin{document}
The vorticity $ω$ is defined as $ω = ∇ × u$.
\end{document}
why aren't they displaying in latex?

@William you are still using type1 fonts for math, you need an unicode-math font:
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\begin{document}
The vorticity $ω$ is defined as $ω = ∇ × u$.
\end{document}

@samcarter -- all i see are two pale shadows. this is terrible!

6:00 PM
Ulrike which typeset

@William xelatex or lualatex.

yeah!!!
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\begin{document}
The vorticity $ω$ is defined as $ω = ∇ × u$. $传$ 传
\end{document}
is there a way to import all unicode characters?

@William the default font doesn't have chinese, you will have to switch a suitable font first.

seems like it should have a fallback by default but okay

6:12 PM
whatever my web browser is using

@William arial doesn't have chinese. browsers uses some fall back here too.

@William arial isn't even a pretty font :)

tell that to SE selecting that as their fallback

I've added an answer to the meta post 'TeX new site theme is live' about the colour of the content area, which has been changed to white. tex.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7793/128068

@Skillmon I'll take any font that renders well the most possible utf-8 characters
whatever the browser does is fine
although I'm inferring that isn't well easy

6:23 PM
@William It could happen that you'll have to use many different fonts to get a reasonably full coverage of unicode. You could google for fonts known for wide coverage.

I think I found something
well Im tempted to screw latex and use HTML+CSS and mathjax
no messing with fonts
ever
mathjax works with my examples fine

@William do what you want. It depends on the results you want to achieve what tools you use.

:( I want to use latex but the font issue is well weird
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{ucharclasses}
\usepackage{fontspec}
\usepackage{unicode-math}

\setDefaultTransitions{\fontspec{Code2000}}{}
\setTransitionsForLatin{\fontspec{Palatino Linotype}}{}
\setTransitionsForGreek{\fontspec{Galatia SIL}}{
\begin{document}
The vorticity $ω$ is defined as $ω = ∇ × u$. $传$ 传

\end{document}
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\usepackage{ucharclasses}
\usepackage{fontspec}

\setDefaultTransitions{\fontspec{Code2000}}{}
\setTransitionsForLatin{\fontspec{Palatino Linotype}}{}
\setTransitionsForGreek{\fontspec{Galatia SIL}}{}

\begin{document}
The vorticity $ω$ is defined as $ω = ∇ × u$. $传$ 传

\end{document}
this never completes just runs forever no error
I was trying to add more fonts from this example here

6:43 PM
Weird: tex.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7781/… doesn't show up on the Meta main page.

@AlanMunn I noticed this too!

@Milo Thank goodness for small victories?

Looks like the background colour of the content area is going to change from white to how it was before!

@LoopSpace /poke

@PauloCereda What's up, ducks?

6:48 PM
@Milo I think it's temporary while "Joe Friend" (is this a real name?) adds all the "Status Declined" tags...

@LoopSpace <3 I am now officially a PhDuck!
10

@PauloCereda CONGRATULATIONS
@PauloCereda should we now call you Dr.uck?

@Skillmon Thank you. :)
@Skillmon oh no

@PauloCereda Congratulations! \usepackage{tikzducks} \duck[phd]`

@LoopSpace ooh :)

6:54 PM
@Skillmon English version Pr.int?

@AlanMunn isn't Dr. also the english abbreviation for doctor?

4
Last part of my acknowledgments section. :)

@Skillmon It was a joke on German 'drucken' :)

@PauloCereda I like it.
@AlanMunn I know :)
@AlanMunn actually I thought it was the noun "Druck".

@Skillmon Right. Also the English noun Print.

01:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00