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9:06 PM
@Ted!
 
hi @Leaky
 
@TedShifrin Apparently there's a neat definition of orientation that also works fine in dimension 0; Mike told me like a week ago but I'm only starting to get it now
 
hi demonic @Alessandro
 
looks like many folk came in at once
 
9:08 PM
what up
 
hi @Eric
 
Yo
 
oh, and Demonark and @CaptainAmerica
 
wow suddenly a lot of people are here
@TedShifrin so given a vector space V, GLn(R) acts on the set of ordered bases of V, and also on the set {-1, 1}; you take the amalgamated product and call it the set of orientations on V
 
9:10 PM
Blah.
Formalism ...
I have no interest.
 
oh ok
 
And I have no idea what $GL(0)$ is.
 
I learned a cool proof that subgroups of free groups are free earlier (actually months ago, but I forgot about it until I studied it again for an upcoming exam today)
 
Oh, the topology proof, @Alessandro?
 
@TedShifrin it's the group of invertible 0x0 matrices!
 
9:12 PM
No, it's an approach you probably won't enjoy as much as the covering spaces business :P
By Bass-Serre theory a group acting freely on a tree is free, and a subgroup of a free group acts freely on the Cayley graph of the latter (which is a tree since it's the Cayley graph of a free group)
 
Ah.
 
It was part of the geometric group theory course so that approach makes sense in context!
 
@TedShifrin oh, I thought it was you who insisted that the determinant of the empty matrix is 1; but I can't find the relevant message in the chat history
anyway the 0x0 matrices form the trivial ring where everything is a unit
 
This seems totally no better than my saying there's an assignment of $+$ or $-$.
 
I think that would be equivalent to the amalgamated product
 
9:15 PM
No, I would never even think about determinants of empty matrices. Undefined.
 
fair
 
when would they ever even come up
 
@ÉricoMeloSilva applying Stokes theorem to 1-dim manifolds
 
It's the same issue, I suppose, with trying to define $\Lambda^0(V)$ when $V$ has dimension $0$. No matter how you say it, it's a matter of definition/convention.
 
i can do that and i dont need to talk about empty matrices
 
9:17 PM
Eric and I, once again, agree.
 
Hi chat.
 
Hi Lucas.
 
classic
 
@TedShifrin I don't think there should be any issue defining $\Lambda^0(V)$... it should just be $\Lambda^\ast(V)$ and that satisfies some universal property; even $\Lambda^0(V)$ has a universal property; anyway they are both the zero algebra?
 
Hi Ted. I suppose you didn't see this.
 
9:19 PM
@Ted I wrote like 4 proofs yesterday. For proving whether some numbers were irrational. I thought the cube roots would be hard, but it was pretty similar to the square ones.
 
@CaptainAmerica16 learning some stuff about valuations can probably save you some time :P
 
@Lucas: If it's the thing you pinged me for yesterday, I did. I'm sorry that one of the most important vector fields has an unfortunate picture, but get over it.
 
although formulating them might be just as hard
 
what do you mean by valuations?
 
@TedShifrin oh I thought about something today and I don't know if this is nonsense: a manifold being orientatable is equivalent to having a non-vanishing top-form because the top-form sort of assigns an outward-pointing normal (if you imbed your manifold locally to the euclidean space of one dimension higher)
 
9:21 PM
@Leaky: But $V=\{0\}$, not the empty vector space.
@Leaky: No. You want to think intrinsically. Many manifolds cannot be embedded as hypersurfaces.
 
@TedShifrin I don't see how that brings any issue (re V={0})
 
@TedShifrin he said locally
 
But the whole thing with orientation is global, so ... ?
 
still not useful
for that reason yeah
 
well at least it helps with intuition, instead of just writing down the proof
 
9:23 PM
I don't think that's the right intuition.
 
oh, what's your intuition?
 
I just want to know how you decide if an oriented basis is + oriented or - oriented.
 
you... can't?
oh you mean in my scenario?
I just demand that the normal be n such that [n, v1, ..., v_{n-1}] is positive
 
@TedShifrin Also I just realized, my version of Spivak only has 23 questions in Ch. 2
 
@Leaky: I think trying to think of every manifold as a boundary or hypersurface is not fruitful. The whole issue is a global one.
The significant changes in questions come in later chapters, @CaptainAmerica. Which edition do you have?
 
9:26 PM
then what do you think about that theorem (i.e. orientable = non-vanishing top-form)?
 
I already answered that.
 
@CaptainAmerica16 the 2-adic valuation of 200 would be 3 because 2 divides it 3 times and no more
 
The form allows me to decide if bases are + or -. And I can go backwards using partitions of unity.
 
Oh @Ted, remember one more thing: you said that a good way to parametrize a 2D curve is to set $y = tx$, because $t$ is the slope; your teacher said that and you never forgot. But I suppose this is always true, right? I mean, "if a subset $S \subset R^2$ is parametrizable by some function $\vec{f}(t) = \begin{bmatrix} x(t) \\ y(t) \end{bmatrix}$ then $y(t) = tx(t)$" or something like that using derivatives.
 
@Lucas: That is something to try. It only works for special curves.
 
9:28 PM
@TedShifrin I believe it's the 4th edition.
 
@TedShifrin sure, I know the proof, but I don't think it gives me that much intuition as to why the theorem is true. I'm not trying to talk about some philosophical nonsense like what is "is", I just want some sort of intuition
 
@CaptainAmerica: Fourth is in fact the last.
 
@LeakyNun Um...I'm going to have to think about that.
 
@LeakyNun he's working through spivak, dont fill his head w such fancy stuff yet
 
Well, that was a lot of $\LaTeX$ thrown in the garbage. :P
 
9:29 PM
@Lucas: It works for what are called rational curves, but if you take something like $y^2=x(x^2-1)$, it certainly can't work.
It won't work for many interesting curves, like cycloids, etc.
 
@LucasHenrique certainly works for some quadratic curves
 
@CaptainAmerica: What do you mean 23 questions? There are 28.
Are you missing p. 34-35?
 
@TedShifrin XD yes
 
That isn't good.
 
I just noticed.
 
9:31 PM
You have an actual hard copy book?
 
Aha ... Well, who knows what else is missing.
 
Well, I haven't noticed any particular discrepancies in the teaching part - so far anyway.
 
@TedShifrin What did you expect :P
 
I just checked the current price of the 4th edition on Amazon...I shall spend my life in the shadows.
 
9:35 PM
LMAO
 
New is not necessary. For many years, this was the cheapest calculus textbook by a significant factor.
 
@MikeMiller !
 
Uh oh
 
I discovered a fantastic book just yesterday which is crazy discounted on amazon right now to 443$ from 700$...
 
I might check someplace other than Amazon. Used is still 80 bucks.
 
9:37 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti excuse me???????
 
@AlessandroCodenotti Gotta get them deals.
 
Cheaper than Stewart, I bet
 
WAYYYYY cheaper.
 
443 is cheaper?
 
@ÉricoMeloSilva only two copies left, you better hurry
 
9:39 PM
yuck
you couldnt pay me to buy it
 
Wow, a paperback for $1432.
I think my free diff geo text is a better value.
 
no whatever book you were thinking of is probably cheaper than Stewart
Isn't that guy dead by now?
 
Yeah, he in fact did die, @MikeM, a number of years ago.
 
@TedShifrin A used paperback!
 
Cancer, I remember
 
9:40 PM
Left a lot of money to music ....
 
The photo in the article about that I saw was of his house
 
Right.
 
Little sympathy from me.
 
Stewart as in Ian Stewart?
the galois theory guy?
 
No, not Ian.
 
9:41 PM
oh
 
I need a way to make monies.
 
A guy known only for his calculus textbook, which was not particularly individualistic.
 
money @CaptainAmerica16
 
@MikeMiller u know what i think
 
@LeakyNun That's what I said.
 
9:42 PM
you said monies
 
@TedShifrin IIRC I have one here. It's... a generic calculus book for engineers and such.
 
exactly
 
@MikeM: He also had a lot of money because there was no wife/children/family to support.
 
never mind
 
monies = more than one money
 
9:43 PM
He ended up where I'd like to see him, so all's well that ends well.
 
That's when you have income in both euros and dollars
 
according to my dictionary "monies" is only to be used in financial contexts
 
Still selling his book though.
Anyway I have other stuff to do than think about this man.
 
I guess I don't want to hear what you say about me when I die, @MikeM.
2
 
@LeakyNun Yeah, my finances are looking rough.
 
9:44 PM
@LeakyNun you must be fun at party parties.
 
@LeakyNun Nobody gains from pedantry
@TedShifrin I think those are different stories. :)
 
Probably only Republican parties, @Lucas.
 
@TedShifrin considering what u did w ur diff geo notes i think the moral calculus is quite different
 
I have to stop buying candy everytime I go for a walk. At the moment I literally have $15 to my name ;-;
 
Plus it'll ruin your teeth big-time ... and you'll end up with cavities and root canals.
 
9:46 PM
yeah, that too
 
@Eric: Oh, but my other books are making me rich beyond belief! :D
 
I literally cannot comprehend why people are addicted to candies... they are too sweet
 
"Hi, mister John $15 Dylan"
I'm sorry. LOL
 
@LeakyNun I eat candy if I don't feel like making food...which is often. Or pickles.
@LucasHenrique It's ok, that actually is my name.
 
He eats candy because that way he doesn't burn himself or the house.
 
9:47 PM
or you can eat outside at a proper restaurant that's not too expensive
or you can buy takeaway
 
@LeakyNun Like Burger King. That's all i can afford
 
not that
 
@TedShifrin The struggle is real.
 
He said proper restaurant.
 
Chinese restaurants are quite cheap around London where I live... relatively speaking
 
9:48 PM
Jokes aside, I know that feeling.
 
but I guess you wouldn't go to Chinese restaurants
 
Chinese food would wipe me out in two days.
 
@TedShifrin I bought a monograph recently. I'm sure that author is taking a bath in gold coin now.
 
why wouldnt he
 
because he isn't Chinese?
 
9:49 PM
7.25 for the meal I like
 
i go to chinese restaurants and im not chinese
 
ok
 
i do too. It's some of my favorite food
 
interesting
 
just please tell me you don't eat sweet and sour pork.
 
9:49 PM
LOL... the minimum amount you're paying here in Brazil is 12 reais
 
so much horrid Americanized Chinese food.
 
chicago has a great chinatown
 
how is sweet and sour pork Americanized? in Hong Kong you can find it in every restaurant
 
I know it's Americanized...It's not my fault I grew up this way.
 
@MikeM: There are only a few publishers of monographs that are "reasonable."
@CaptainAmerica: But I grew up in the US not eating Americanized food(s).
 
9:50 PM
Eh, ok.
You'd be horrified if you saw my daily diet.
 
Oh, and the minimum wage in Brazil is 900 reais/month while in USA its about 1200 dollars.
 
The only time I eat at fast food places is when I'm doing 500-mile drives or something like that.
So many people in the US don't get close to minimum wage, Lucas.
 
Just eat pasta every meal, that's the student diet in Italy
 
@AlessandroCodenotti with a lot of oil?
 
@TedShifrin he's certainly right that the purchasing power of ppl relative to the labor they perform is much lower in brazil than in the US
 
9:52 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti diabetes.
 
take it from someone who knows a bit about both :P
 
@TedShifrin wow! I didn't know that. Why though? Isn't it... illegal?
 
@LeakyNun Not necessarily, depends on the sauce
 
Pasta takes a long time to cook
 
@AlessandroCodenotti what's your favourite sauce?
also, pineapple on pizza?
 
9:53 PM
Nah that's heresy
 
I'm serious, if my parents don't cook (or make me cook), my meals are limited to 3 minutes in the microwave
 
@Eric: The purchasing power is very inadequate in places like CA, especially where I live, however. I have a good friend who works as a cab driver and can't even afford rent.
 
@LeakyNun I don't know, I like them all :P
 
@Lucas: Illegal? Surely you jest.
 
I don't.
 
9:54 PM
If someone has a 40-hour job making minimum wage, that's $40 \times \$7.25 = \$290$ a week.
 
@TedShifrin i am well aware, it's v bad here, so imagine how bad some of the poorer people in brazil must have it
 
Minimum wage is still $7.25? I thought they were trying to raise that a few years ago.
 
you'd be amazed at Hong Kong's minimum wage
 
I forgot how to block people in chat again
 
9:55 PM
@TedShifrin mainly CUP seems to be the best
 
@TedShifrin so $\$1160$ a month.
 
Certain cities and states have raised it, @CaptainAmerica, but our generous rich legislators of the you-know-which-party only care about the rich and entitled.
 
The one I got is Memoirs
 
Ah.
@MikeMiller WTH is that?
 
it must be a pizza pineapple as opposed to a pineapple pizza i guess
 
9:59 PM
I saw some people mentioning pineapple on pizza, so I sent the other way around.
 
@TedShifrin That's really messed up.
 
Oh.
 
My aunt eats pineapple pizza. I leave hungry on those nights.
 
like honestly i think it's fine though, i wouldnt order it and it's not great but it's not nearly as offensive as people make it out to be imo
 
Mixing sweet and savory can be interesting ... but it can also be ... yuck.
 
10:01 PM
It's just a joke
 
googles "joke"
 
@ÉricoMeloSilva I'll admit I can be overly picky about food.
 
@MikeMiller like us
 
Welp, my teacher posted the results of my English exam. I would say I hate school, but I remember the non-resolution I made to not complain.
 
but you still said it
 
10:10 PM
implicitly
So it doesn't count unless you notice.
 
It is still a de facto complaint.
Moving on ...
 
10:24 PM
@AlessandroCodenotti do you haskell?
 
Not yet, but if I get into the practical project in logic thing next semester I'll need to learn it
I took a course in functional programming during my bachelor but we only used SML
 
11:28 PM
@AkivaWeinberger I like how these diagrams somehow triggering very strange scenes in last night dream, leading me to a possibly better understanding of what is motion
Exposing to diagrams of hyperbolic spaces and games does really help on intuition on curved spacetime, because locally your view changes depending on where you are on the manifold, similar to how in these hyperbolic animation, the centre piece always look flat
 
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