The Bridge

1:00 PM

@badp As a temporary fix, you could change your display settings to not change brightness between battery and ac power switches

@badp It wouldn't fix your charging problems, but the annoyance caused by it intermittently switching

GnomeSlice

1:12 PM

Just got a code for the Toki Tori 2 preview, courtesy of @TwoTribesGames. You guys rock!

Tweeted by GnomeSlice on October 24, 2011 at 1:12 PM

Unfortunately, it looks like a steam code.

@RonanForman That should be @Mana's new gravatar.

Mana

Ugh

My body's all chilled to the core

GnomeSlice

Speak of the devil.

And in he logs.

Mana

I hate this feeling. It happens to me every time winter approaches.

GnomeSlice

@Mana Me too.

Ronan Forman

@GnomeSlice I might make a better one, maybe bring out blender again.

GnomeSlice

1:18 PM

That's why I've started wearing my winter coat to school and stuff.

Those other people can give me amused looks all they want.

Ronan Forman

@Mana I just get tired and lazy.

Mana

I just want to crawl back into my nice warm fuzzy bed and bluuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Ronan Forman

Awww... blender's not installed. :(

GnomeSlice

Also, I get to take a look at the pre-alpha of Toki tori 2.

@Mana That's a verb?

Mana

It is now.

GnomeSlice

1:19 PM

Wait, no you must be talking about this:

►

Ronan Forman

@GnomeSlice It's that shiver you get when you go into a cold bed. bluuuuu.

GnomeSlice

bluuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Powerlord

Huh, I now have a silver php tag on SO.

GnomeSlice

@RonanForman I don't think you would ever make that noise as a result of a shiver.

Mana

It's the sound of me being a lazy blob of not-wanting-to-go-to-a-midterm

GnomeSlice

1:21 PM

@Mana Just like Animal Fat.

Mana

yeah pretty much

Martin Sojka

@GnomeSlice Nothing wrong with packing yourself in warm stuff even at 10+ degrees C. But then, I like to drive my cabrio open even with this weather ... (sunny, around 10 degrees C).

GnomeSlice

►

^ Animal Fat ^

Ronan Forman

@GnomeSlice Really? I do. It's more of a move to get warm shiver rather than an involuntary one.

GnomeSlice

@MartinSojka I'm kind of weird like that, I often like chilly weather, and then turn right around and freeze.

My temperature preferences aren't really consistent.

Mana

1:23 PM

Yo @Rory!

GnomeSlice

@Mana you need to get pumped up for your midterm.

Rory Alsop

@Mana afternoon!

GnomeSlice

Here, probably everyone can enjoy this.

Mana

:(

GnomeSlice

I have no idea what the old samples are taken from.

But I love it.

PUSH IT TO THE LIMIT.

@RoryAlsop Not for us, it's only 9:30 AM. =] And hello.

Rory Alsop

1:24 PM

I have a confession - I started playing minecraft on Friday. Played 12 hours of it so far... <sigh> I knew I'd get sucked in!

GnomeSlice

@RoryAlsop That happened to me at first.

Rory Alsop

@GnomeSlice It's very sad as I've just got a top spec gaming machine and am in the middle of downloading all my steam games (which look amazing on it) - and what do I play? Blimming minecraft :-)

GnomeSlice

@RoryAlsop Minecraft needs a surprisingly good machine to run well on too, though.

Mana

@RoryAlsop So envious.

GnomeSlice

It's very slow on my desktop machine.

Mana

1:26 PM

This is the sound of me being envious.

GnomeSlice

However, most of my steam games don't even run on that machine.

Rory Alsop

@GnomeSlice Nice new quad core with 560ti - 60Gb SSD for boot plus a couple of terabytes of storage. Fans everywhere, blue lights - feels lovely

GnomeSlice

@RoryAlsop I didn't understand any of that except that it has lots of fans and blue lights.

Sounds legit.

Mana

@RoryAlsop asdfasdfadfasdfasdf'

GnomeSlice

I don't have steam on my laptop, which is quad core something with dedicated graphics something.

Rory Alsop

1:28 PM

@GnomeSlice (I got a gamer addict friend to spec it and give me links to an online shop - I just hhad enough intelligence to pay some money and it arrived)

Mana

@GnomeSlice this is okay

GnomeSlice

@Mana tell me you're listening to that song.

BAM.

I wrote that at the same moment you wrote that.

Mana

@GnomeSlice We operate using the same brainwaves.

GnomeSlice

@RoryAlsop Those people know best haha.

@Mana That... I... yeah, okay.

►

Speaking of brains.

Mana

@GnomeSlice not one of their better ones

GnomeSlice

1:31 PM

Eh, I thought it was clever.

Man, this song is so intense.

I'm pumped.

Mana

@GnomeSlice It's literally "I got a brain transplant with a guy who did dumb things. Now I'm going to do those dumb things."

GnomeSlice

@Mana Yeah, but that's basically what their comic strips are.

Mana

That's it. That's literally all there is to it. THAT'S IT.

Yes, and like the comic strips, it's all hit-or-miss.

GnomeSlice

Like I said, I thought it was clever.

Mana

IT WASN'T. YOUR OPINIONS SUCK.

2

GnomeSlice

1:33 PM

I knew you were going to do that.

Ronan Forman

I love half term, you see all the parents trying to do what they'd normally be doing and trying to take care of 3 4-10 year olds.

Powerlord

@RoryAlsop Top spec? Out of curiosity, what kind of video cards?

GnomeSlice

I need to remember to check this out later, looks really interesting.

Mana

Woah, Kenta Cho!

GnomeSlice

@Mana That would explain the bad English, and the way that 'sine' is continually spelled 'sin'.

Mana

1:39 PM

@GnomeSlice This game is very hard.

GnomeSlice

@Mana Yeah, I just tried it.

Neat concept though.

Mana

and then it speeds up :|

Rory Alsop

@Powerlord scan.co.uk/products/…

Powerlord

@RoryAlsop Just one, or more than one?

Rory Alsop

@Powerlord at the moment, 1 - will sneak the other one in when the wife is away for a bit

Powerlord

1:43 PM

@RoryAlsop Good thinking.

Rory Alsop

@Powerlord once it's in the box, it's invisible, and therefore doesn't exist

Powerlord

I have dual GTX 570s, also from EVGA I think.

But I also don't have a wife.

So I don't have to hide it!

Raven Dreamer

I have dual 465s.

The 460s came out about a month after I built my PC :/

But also Evga.

Rory Alsop

@RavenDreamer they keep doing that! I'm just delighted I have finally retired my 5 year old PC (which was good at the time, but now pretty sucky)

Raven Dreamer

My rig should run Skyrim comfortably. If it does, I'm happy.

Mana

1:46 PM

@GnomeSlice 25000 points!!!!!

Powerlord

My 3 year old PC starting have blue screens, RAM-related I think. I meant to replace it soon anyway (I bought a refurbished computer last time, so I expected a shorter life than average).

Raven Dreamer

I don't think I'll assemble a computer again. Way too stressful.

I'll just buy what parts I want and pay someone else to assemble them all.

Powerlord

I bought one from Digital Storm computers.

GnomeSlice

@Mana Is that good?

Rory Alsop

Mine had started doing odd things - I have tentatively diagnosed it as a failure on the motherboard and I thought I'd use that as an excuse to budget a grand for a new one. Love the boot speed from SSD though!

GnomeSlice

1:48 PM

I didn't even check my scores after playing.

Rory Alsop

going to get a couple more of the Corsair 60Gb SSDs for my car stereo - currently the boot time from the two laptop drives in it is the only bottleneck

Raven Dreamer

I also got a really crappy monitor. The monitor itself is fine, it's just that the hardware response to a blue screen of death is "turn off monitor".

Because of that, It was several months before my realized my computer was BSoDing.

GnomeSlice

@RavenDreamer That's... what? Why does that even?

Raven Dreamer

3

Q: Can a monitor fail to display a "Blue Screen of Death"?

I assembled a computer for myself about 11 months ago. It was my first build ever, but I seem to have done well-enough. However, I sporadically run into a problem where the audio hangs, all computer functions immediately cease, and am force to either restart or power-down the computer. In short,...

Oh, look. A typo.

and am force!

GnomeSlice

@RavenDreamer TL;DR, but you've made your point, sir.

@RavenDreamer Should be 'I am Forced'.

Raven Dreamer

1:52 PM

@GnomeSlice Yes. Yes it should.

GnomeSlice

I will fix.

Raven Dreamer

Actually, just "am forced".

Since the I is implicit

GnomeSlice

It's not, because the section before it in the commas doesn't use that perspective.

The 'I' doesn't carry through the entire statement once you break it like that.

Powerlord

RIP The IT Crowd.

GnomeSlice

> audio hangs, all computer functions immediately cease, and I'm forced to either restart or power-down the computer.

@Powerlord D: What!?

Powerlord

1:53 PM

@GnomeSlice The guy who made it has decided not to make a fifth season.

Rory Alsop

@Powerlord that sucks

GnomeSlice

@Powerlord It wasn't really about IT any more anyway though.

Powerlord

@RoryAlsop The Register story about it

Rory Alsop

@Powerlord did they manage to get a gaming.stackexchange sticker onto their wall at any point?

GnomeSlice

@RoryAlsop What? They were going to?

Powerlord

1:55 PM

@RoryAlsop No, since Gaming.Stackexchange didn't exist the last time they filmed new episodes (mid-2010)

Rory Alsop

ahhhh

Raven Dreamer

Does anyone else think that Jeff Atwood's gravatar invariably makes him come off as aggressive and intrusive?

Like, whenever I see the little screaming head of Jeff

I'm just like, "oh snap!"

Mana

@RavenDreamer I don't think it's Jeff's gravatar that makes him come off as aggressive and instrusive...

HEYOOOOO

shoots flames from fingertips

GnomeSlice

@RavenDreamer I never actually did at all, I always liked his gravatar.

I found that it's more Jeff's posts that make him come off as aggressive and intrusive.

Mana

@RavenDreamer Jokes aside I like his gravatar.

Raven Dreamer

1:59 PM

Maybe its because the same icon is used for TVTropes 'nightmare fuel" sub trope thing.

GnomeSlice

So relaxed

Today's Video Games Tranformed into Atari Format

...As if they included Sexy Hiking.

Powerlord

@RavenDreamer Which Gravatar? His one on SO is the Coding Horror logo. :/

Mana

Hey man, Sexy Hiking is the greatest game of this century.

GnomeSlice

@Powerlord Yes, that one.

Mana

@RavenDreamer By the way, 100%.

badp

2:04 PM

@RavenDreamer codinghorror.com/blog/2011/10/on-parenthood.html

relevant

Raven Dreamer

@Powerlord Right. I don't think he created it though. Otherwise, I don't think TVTropes would have appropriated it.

badp

No, the avatar isn't his own creation. It comes from an icon from a book.

Raven Dreamer

Like I said, I think the gravatar is scary!

OoOOoOoOoOoOooh

badp

GnomeSlice

So I'm staying home.

Raven Dreamer

2:17 PM

I'm assuming that's a typo.

GnomeSlice

Also, gaming just told me I'd earned the nice question badge for a question when it actually meant I'd received the notable question badge.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Midtown is boring.

In theory, I am "navigating" but in a perfect grid where traffic moves at 6mph, that means saying "turn right and then right" every 25 minutes.

badp

lol, there's a stab at Apple too.

@LessPop_MoreFizz I'm sure that once you take in consideration the time costs of giving way, that'll change!

LessPop_MoreFizz

Huh?

I mean I am literally saying 5 words to my coworker every 25 minutes. That is the total amount of work I am doing.

badp

Just because you're minimizing space it doesn't mean you're minimizing time

Lazers

2:27 PM

1

Q: What's the point of Poes?

In Ocarina of Time, there are various places (as an adult) that Poes appear. You can fight and kill them, like any other enemy, but when they die, they leave behind a glowing "soul" type thing that you can put into a jar. Why would I bother? They don't appear to be really good for anything. Is th...

zelda-ocarina-of-time

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz I must have misunderstood you

Just because zig-zagging is shorter, it doesn't mean it's faster. To which you'll reply, "DUH. I meant this other completely different thing, you dumbbell."

LessPop_MoreFizz

I do. I'm talking about just covering every horizontal line of a grid.

Back and forth.

It's not about getting to a destination. It's about driving every inch of roadway.

badp

Oh. Google Street View?

LessPop_MoreFizz

Bing. Among other things.

badp

This is probably why Google's invested in self-driving cars.

Rory Alsop

2:33 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz do you compute the most efficient route, or just try and cover all your map in blue

LessPop_MoreFizz

(we also capture a ton of other data t gets encoded for a variety of map things.$

Rory Alsop

(or whatever colour)

badp

although Google might've given up there

self-driving cars is the only explanation I can give to Google's Street View current coverage of Italy

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Rory cover the map in green in the most efficient manner possible.

badp

They went every fucking where.

Rory Alsop

2:35 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz so purely manual task to decide on best route?

badp

They have all the streets from all the minor cities, and we've got a TON of minor city in Italy.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@rory: sort of. It's... Complicated.

But for this current project in Manhattan, yes.

Which is easy... But mind numbing because traffic moves so slowly.

6 MPH. Island is 2.5 miles wide. Back and forth.

Rory Alsop

I'm interested from a tech perspective, but I can imagine just how boring:-)

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz Why even take the car there then?

@RoryAlsop I don't mean him obviously. I mean everybody else.

Rory Alsop

@badp you'd need the photos?

badp

2:38 PM

I'm every day surprised at the amount of traffic Amsterdam has. Or, more accurately, doesn't have.

Same for Wien, really, where people aren't that crazy for bikes, but the metro service is rather awesome.

Rory Alsop

@badp hahaha - I understand now. Certainly whenever I go there I walk everywhere. From the southern tip of Manhattan to the north end of central park is hardly any distance - it's a very small city centre.

badp

(Mind you, I've never been outside Europe.)

Although there's a non-null chance that'll change next year. My parents have been planning a family trip to Australia for their 25th anniversary.

BUT THEN I'LL MISS THE STEAM SUMMER SALES!! UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

Rory Alsop

@badp (Oz has interwebs too)

badp

@RoryAlsop I've heard negative reports on buying things off Steam from abroad, although I've done so just yesterday after I updated my billing address.

It was super confusing, because I wanted to use my Steam Wallet and with that option it doesn't show you the billing address fields. So it was still invisibly using the old settings where I was claiming to be in Italy, while my connection originated from the Netherlands. Steam didn't like that.

Rory Alsop

@badp Interesting. worst case you could set up your home server so you can VPN in to it and buy from home:-)

badp

2:45 PM

...and I put in some money on Wallet exactly to make sure I wouldn't have this kind of trouble.

When I tried Paypal, the fields got visible, I could update them, and then the operation got through.

Brett White Ψ

Helloooo

badp

OH HIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

LessPop_MoreFizz

Hi @Brett!

Sorry I missed you last weekend sister wrecked her car. :(

Brett White Ψ

Has anyone here ever bought anything via Origin, specifically gifted via Origin?

trying to figure out if gifting thru origin is even possible, their FAQ is no help

LessPop_MoreFizz

Hahahaha. Buy things. Origin.

Brett White Ψ

2:48 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz Oh dreadful! I hope she's okay

LessPop_MoreFizz

That's funny. You're funny.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz ouch

LessPop_MoreFizz

@brett she's fine. Wrecked mechanically, not collision.

Brett White Ψ

@LessPop_MoreFizz Ahhh the more desirable of the many wrecking types

LessPop_MoreFizz

She put gasoline in a diesel car.

She is not bright.

badp

2:50 PM

Whooooops.

Powerlord

@LessPop_MoreFizz Diesel car? They still make those? :P

LessPop_MoreFizz

Volkswagon does.

badp

@Powerlord They're kind of becoming the default actually

(AFAIK)

LessPop_MoreFizz

I am sitting in one right now! The gas milage is insane.

badp

Hey, in Europe petrol costs twice as much. At least.

LessPop_MoreFizz

2:50 PM

@badp not in the US.

Basically only VeeDubs here.

badp

In Italy it's roughly 1.633 €/l → 8,56457558 US$ / gal

Rory Alsop

here at the moment £1.42 per litre of V-Power petrol

badp

V-Power? Seriously?

Rory Alsop

and I get 35 mpg. Some of the Audi diesels get 80mpg

badp

Are you talking of "premium petrol"?

Rory Alsop

2:55 PM

@badp I need V-Power as a minimum

yep - I need at least 98 RON

badp

@RoryAlsop Wow, really?

Rory Alsop

102 is better, but rare and expensive

@badp yup - slightly tweaked car :-)

Subaru Forester STi Litchfield specced import - almost at 400bhp now, so very high compression

think 102 RON is around £4 per litre where you can get it

LessPop_MoreFizz

Yeah prices in NY hover between $3.50 and $4.00 /gallon

So about a dollar per liter.

Rory Alsop

wow

LessPop_MoreFizz

I.e. an 8th of UK pricing.

Rory Alsop

3:01 PM

just not fair - especially here in Scotland where we do make our own oil

(well, pipe it from under the sea...)

LessPop_MoreFizz

So does the US. Not enough to meet domestic demand though.

Raven Dreamer

3:24 PM

I just heard back from the people I interviewed with!

They said:

"Hi, we're still deliberating! We'll let you know when we decide!"

/facepalm

Powerlord

A comment I saw about Wikileaks recent problems with financial institutions:

> You threaten to publish the secret, evil, nefarious ways of financial institutions, claim to have a hard drive full of incriminating information, and now these same financial institutions now won't deal with you? Why... I never. How demonic indeed!

LessPop_MoreFizz

@Raven: that means they want you but haven't cut through the red tape yet in my experience - they're trying to make sure you don't take another offer thinking they they weren't interested.

That said, sometimes the cutting through red tape fails and you don't get the offer.

Raven Dreamer

@LessPop_MoreFizz I hope so, fingers still crossed!

"I wanted to let you know that I did received the feedbacks from the team and it was very positives. "

There was even an adorable typo.

LessPop_MoreFizz

That seems less like a typo and more like a non native speaker.

Raven Dreamer

Hm. I think you're write, actually.

Maybe she's South African?

Arda Xi

3:37 PM

@RavenDreamer Speaking of typos.

Raven Dreamer

@ArdaXi That's an ironic typo, though.

Rory Alsop

@RavenDreamer As opposed to a sarcastic typo? :-)

Raven Dreamer

@RoryAlsop As opposed to a typo borne from ignorance.

@LessPopMoreFizz - so have I talked to you about Mists of Pandaria yet?

I know I brought it up with @Powerlord.

LessPop_MoreFizz

You have not.

I /wowquit a few months ago. This probably won't lure me back.

Raven Dreamer

In short: I am amused at the ridiculousness of it.

And I'm in the same boat.

We go from INDOMITABLE EVIL LICH KINGS, to WORLD-SHATTERING DRAGONS, to PANDAS!

LessPop_MoreFizz

3:41 PM

It's the Pokemon that kills me.

Huh. iPhone autocorrect knows Pokemon should be capitalized.

Raven Dreamer

@LessPop_MoreFizz Yeah, that was straight outta left-field.

@LessPop_MoreFizz But it doesn't add the accent mark?

Tim Stone

I wonder if I should feel lucky.

LessPop_MoreFizz

That depends. Are you a Punk?

Tim Stone

Michael Dell as Dirty Harry?

Mana

Oi! Battlefield 3 emails are going out it seems.

Tim Stone

3:50 PM

:o

Mana

Tim! How's it going man?

Raven Dreamer

@Mana ! I feel like I've not said anything to you lately!

Tim Stone

Not bad, not bad...trying to get caught up with 100000000 things.

Mana

@RavenDreamer Correct! I assume this is because we're both incredibly hyped for End of Act 5 tonight/tomorrow.

Raven Dreamer

@Mana I keep intermittently forgetting about that.

I did find this on Reddit, and it looks nuts.

►

The saw WONT LET YOU CUT OFF YOUR FINGER

Mana

3:54 PM

@RavenDreamer This sounds like the sort of video I shouldn't be watching in class.

Raven Dreamer

@Mana Its okay, they demonstrate it with a hotdog.

At first.

Uhoh. Still watching it.

Mana

Uh.

FallenAngelEyes

@RavenDreamer I saw that on a tv show

It's pretty nuts

sure, your saw's completely broken afterwards

but hey, you still have a finger

Mana

Oh, phew.

Raven Dreamer

It's totally not graphic.

Hooray!

In other news, I made a minecraft texture pack.

I really like how my wood came out.

4

But I can't get any good log textures :(

Mana

3:57 PM

@RavenDreamer I bet you like that.

Powerlord

@RavenDreamer Did Blizzard announce at the end of Blizzcon that they were joking or not?

Mana

@Powerlord They weren't. Pandanium is a real thing.

Raven Dreamer

@Powerlord Yeah.

They're not.

@Mana Pandaria. Alternatively, Pandamonium.

Mana

@RavenDreamer Does it really matter?

Raven Dreamer

@Mana Well, Pandanium sounds like the new ore in the expansion. Pandaria is the actual place, and Pandamonium is a homonym-pun.

Mana

4:02 PM

Let's just agree that it's incredibly silly

Raven Dreamer

This is incredibly silly

FallenAngelEyes

@RavenDreamer o rly

Raven Dreamer

I'd offer to show you my wood...

But it's on my PC, and I'm on my laptop atm.

FallenAngelEyes

You'll never get the ladies if you keep hiding your wood away. You've gotta rock out with your... textures out.

5

Raven Dreamer

My problem is not that I can't charm them, but that I can't find them to begin with. :(

Part of that is my major. Women are the endangered Zebras of the computer science department.

I feel compelled to make some sort of "hunting Zebra on the Safari" reference now.

FallenAngelEyes

4:15 PM

lol

Mana

So. Uh.

Women. They like to go swimming (swimming)

Raven Dreamer

@Mana Let's go hunt Zebras!

LessPop_MoreFizz

@mana I need to listen to that song now and don't have it handy on my phone. D'oh.

Raven Dreamer

It is lunch.

Powerlord

I'm bac...on!

GnomeSlice

4:30 PM

@FallenAngelEyes ಠ_ಠ

FallenAngelEyes

@GnomeSlice Yeeeeeeeeees? :3

Powerlord

Now, see, I could have said something else that was bad like "If I don't put my wood away, little kids play with it and it gets all over."

Although that's not Minecraft related.

Wipqozn

4:42 PM

good evening ladies and gentlemen

@Mana Have you been skinny dipping?

Oh snap! @Mana did you hear about the new SC2 units announced at Blizzcon?

oh nifty. 5k rep. I can approve tag wiki edits now.

badp

@RoryAlsop On the upside we're much more careful about fuel and green stuff.

At any rate bbl.

Powerlord

@Wipqozn Were they ones previously introduced as an April Fools joke, like the Terratron?

Oh wait, sorry, it was WoW that is getting the former-April Fools joke ones.

Wipqozn

4:59 PM

I'm so happy I switched to zerg. They seem to be getting the most awesome new units (viper? Yes please) and unit changes (increased hydra speed? banelings can move while burrowed? Awesome.)

I find this to be hilarious though:

> Corrupters no longer have the ability "Corruption"

> Corrupters now have a channeled ability "Siphon" against buildings that does 1 dps and converts damage done to minerals

Corrupters without Corrupt. Maybe they should be renamed.

@mana link, in case you haven't seen it yet

Powerlord

@Wipqozn To Siphoners?

GnomeSlice

5:15 PM

►

Whhhooooooah.

Wipqozn

@Powerlord Exactly.

Powerlord has the idea

also, this new map looks awesome:

Looks like a good map for Zerg

Raven Dreamer

I reemerge.

Wipqozn

@RavenDreamer or do you?

Raven Dreamer

Nope. I'm decidedly here.

looks at starred message list

Wait, really? -_-

Wipqozn

@RavenDreamer yes, really (not sure what you are talking about)

Raven Dreamer

5:27 PM

Also, @Wipqozn, thanks for that link.

Wipqozn

@RavenDreamer You are welcome

Was unaware you played SC2

Raven Dreamer

I don't, really.

Tried for a while in beta, multiplayer was too stressful.

yeah it can be

OH HAI

@badp Hello

5:33 PM

just posting this answer so it gets a little more love than it already has

3

A: What makes Meta Knight so powerful?

The reason Meta Knight has been banned is basically because he's amazing in every single aspect of the game, and has no real weaknesses. Recovery and Gimping Meta Knight's recovery is hands down the best in the game: He has 5 jumps, a glide, and even after all that he can use one of his special...