The Bridge

10:00 PM

@JasperLoy No, because there is no restriction that something can't be added in the future.

@James The goal of the SE network is to provide answers to questions that will be useful to people in general. If an entire category does not have that property, then the category does not belong here.

user19161

@Ullallulloo You are a paper clip, not a safety pin.

James

@murgatroid99 Whether or not they are able to find the question via search engines is another question. the response that there are 3 questions about the same game so clearly the searcher was unable to search for the right things as proof of that... well having taken quite a bit of psychology that argument does not hold any water for me.. its inference, not a direct cause and effect relation.

Stephen

@James I have, on rare occasion, found a game I was looking for by hitting on a g.se itg thread from google ... in part because of the "Tag cloud" effect that sometimes builds up. I'd say rare, but not unheard of.

James

@murgatroid99 Come now.. If that was to be the case we should look at all the questions on here and their views.. Then go to a site like Google or Yahoo or whatever one you want and see how many people have searched for information in that question and compare numbers.

murgatroid99

10:02 PM

@James My point still stands that it is unlikely that someone else will remember the same things about a game and then find that question.

James

@Stephen Ive found two old games that way as well. but again I am on the side that these questions are Useful to the site :)

Ullallulloo

3

A: Reaching a decision on "Identify This Game" questions, phase 1

FWIW I disagree with most of Jeff's reasons why "identify this game" questions are bad. 1) Jeff's first reason is that "Guessing game questions aren’t practical." His proof for this is to say that "A half-remembered description of something you vaguely recall is not what I’d call a practical, an...

Lazers

1

Q: How can I ask a good Strategy/tactics question?

Say I want to beat a boss. I ask here; it's the first on-topic category in the faq. But strategy questions are inherently a bit subjective. How can I ask these sort of questions so they are a good fit for Gaming.SE? Do I just say "here's what I want to do, here's what I've done"?

0

Q: How do you stop vines from spreading?

Its annoying me because I built a room surrounding my city and the vines still came in. The same thing happened to my friends city too. My friend covered a house in vines and it spread to our houses. Help!

minecraft

user19161

@StrixVaria I was just saying that a set with only one element is called a singleton. :-)

Nick T

@GraceNote can you just delete both my posts so I can start over?

James

10:03 PM

@Ullallulloo Ooh I like that point.. Is a QUESTION a duplicate simply because they all have the same answer....

Is 2 + 2 a duplicate of 2 X 2 simply because they both = 4... Hmmm

Nick T

I promise to put in BIG BOLD LETTERS that I'm asking about procedure in my first one so long as some mod actually deletes posts that are like "durr, just delete!"

Grace Note

@NickT I can close them, but I can't really go through with deletion on them.

badp

@James In the case of ITGs they probably are so

Nick T

can you lock the poll then delete joels and juan's answer on the other?

Stephen

@badp Then the solution that already exists is to merge the two right?

Pyrodante

10:05 PM

@GnomeSlice posted a question on Meta on your behalf

badp

@Stephen That would be kind of missing the point of closing as dupe

Grace Note

@NickT Joel's answer is kinda why I can't just delete the post.

user19161

@GraceNote If only life were so simple. If we could just delete whatever we want in life and start over.

James

@badp Id say combining them and wiki'ing them (though I am not entirely sure what that entails, just that it seems to remove them from being 'questions' or 'answers' in the traditional sense) may be a good course of action.. but they are two distinct problems..

badp

Where we want to keep the different wordings of the same question for the google juice

and yet funnel them into one "canonical" question

Nick T

10:05 PM

@GraceNote Joel's post is not an answer to the question

James

@badp Its a duplicate Answer though, not a Question.

badp

it's just the way things work for all other kinds of questions

Nick T

it's a question of procedure, not policy

badp

@James eh, typically dupe answers are on the same question

James

@badp No, Not google juice, So people who are looking for that one answer now have twice the chance of finding it.

Nick T

10:06 PM

it's a good post, it's just not an answer to that question

Pyrodante

did we loose @GnomeSlice again?

badp

@James well yes

James

@badp Best answers was something I was told we were all about earlier.. Isnt a good answer also one where the question can be found easily?

Woah, Where did your post got @NickT???

Nick T

?

James

meta.gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/4080/…

That was your Phase 1 post.. its now a 404 result

badp

10:09 PM

Grace deleted it.

James

And that answer to it had some very good information in it that I hope was not wiped out with it.

Nick T

k

badp

@LessPopMoreFizz "All of us" - citation needed. Even the meta poll doesn't seem to agree with you. Just because the current policy isn't "BAN THEM ALL" it doesn't mean the topic isn't "settled"

Grace Note

@badp By request. And I told Joel so he can repost his answer whereever it would properly fit.

James

@GraceNote Kewl

badp

10:11 PM

@GraceNote I'm not claiming you did so in a fit of power.

Stephen

@GraceNote Maybe he should blog post it so that it doesn't get deleted again.

badp

For now I'll repost it on chat though

FWIW I disagree with most of Jeff's reasons why "identify this game" questions are bad.

1) Jeff's first reason is that "Guessing game questions aren’t practical." His proof for this is to say that "A half-remembered description of something you vaguely recall is not what I’d call a practical, answerable question." That's not a proof, it's just a circular assertion. The point of most of these questions is presumably that you remember the game but not the title, and want to find it again so you can play it again... that's a practical reason to ask.

3

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp I never said "all of us"

Grace Note

@badp I know, I'm just pointing it out for others to see.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz true, sorry

LessPop_MoreFizz

10:12 PM

@badp In fact, I explicitly did not say all of us, because I made clear reference to those I disagree with.

badp

At any rate, upvotes are 11 to 10

Grace Note

I'm not too keen on my lock messages telling people to go to Meta, though, haha.

Pyrodante

@badp How dare you give a sound argument in favor of ITG that causes me to rethink my position...

James

@badp How would I go about linking to this post here so we can edit the poll to point to it since the link there is now broken?

badp

@James Poll is locked currently anyway

Juan Manuel

10:14 PM

@James "http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/3630599#3630599"

Tristan

@AshleyNunn you around?

James

@JuanManuel How do I go about getting that information? So I dont have to keep on asking :)

badp

@Pyrodante I hope the solid argument isn't "11 to 10"

Sterno

@GnomeSlice I'm not one of the people who think your boob question should be closed or anything, but 15 upvotes? That's nuts.

Pyrodante

@badp no the one that you reposted

Ktash

10:15 PM

Now that's a turn around. @Gnome's question went from a -9 (worst I saw) to a +2 lol gaming.stackexchange.com/q/52802/15643

Juan Manuel

@James i.stack.imgur.com/hTQYi.png i.stack.imgur.com/fAEJj.png

Stephen

@Sterno I'm sure that some of the upvotes are just anti-downvotes

Pyrodante

@ktash that is why I said, if you play the upvote/downvote game, the winner is the questioner

Sterno

@Stephen Then it's a shame they don't carry equal weight

James

@JuanManuel Thanks! I had just found it.. Cliked it 3 times before I went Duh, Right click and select Copy! :)

Pyrodante

10:16 PM

a controversial question garners more points then a good one.

Stephen

@Sterno @Sterno No doubt. I recall reading about that before on meta.so... thataway --->

Juan Manuel

I give up

James

@JuanManuel I got it, No worries, Thanks!!! :)

Sterno

And the answer, while accurate, doesn't seem terribly worthy of 5 upvotes. Sometimes this site makes me sad. :)

Pyrodante

@sterno people are rallying behind a cause, which is why I do not vote either way, I open a question on Meta :P

Ktash

10:18 PM

@Sterno No. It's my answer and it really isn't. I just linked to someone else who had the same question

Sterno

Damn supercollider. I blame it! :)

Stephen

@Sterno A high rep on gaming.se doesn't really seem to fit with what rep is in general. I cite the whole bitch I'm a horse precedent (which was funny .. but) :)

Ktash

Not a bad answer, but considering some of the others I've had that are much lower, it shouldn't be at 5... lol

Pyrodante

I wonder what the difference is for ITG that have pictures vs not

Wipqozn

@Stephen That kind of stuff happens on all of the sites, not just GSE.

Grace Note

10:20 PM

@Pyrodante Tend to be easier if it's like a screenshot, but otherwise no procedural difference.

Stephen

@Wipqozn True enough, but I see it more prevelant on gse than ... so for example

Pyrodante

@GraceNote well whats odd is it is more likely to be answered, but less likely to be Googled later

Grace Note

@Pyrodante Yeah, not real easy to search for a screenshot and hit our site.

Wipqozn

@Stephen That's just because SO has had more time to mature than us. As GSE grows older, answer like those will probably happen less and less.

Nick T

-1

Q: What issues must be resolved before we vote on keeping "Identify This Game" questions?

I sincerely apologize for my weak previous procedural post (deleted, 10k only) which generated mostly pro/anti arguments which was not my intent. Due to the negative reception to the post (-5 net votes) and my procedural proposal (-2), I took that as a "just vote already", so I started a poll (l...

discussion site-policies identify-this-game

quick, downvote it more

James

10:22 PM

@Pyrodante picture in the question or picture in the answer?

Nick T

ffs, why are people downvoting it

this site is so aggrevating

Oak

@NickT you just told them to!

we hear and obey

Nick T

I KNOW, WTF AM I DOIN

Oak

:)

James

@NickT Maybe those who are down voting are wondering why this is even up for voting on keeping it or not?

Neither side has a majority from the looks of it.

Stephen

10:24 PM

@Wipqozn Probably. It's a different audience too. Seriously ... since I can't use my rep score to get a job somewhere ... I don't worry too much about it.

Grace Note

@NickT Yeah, I'm not even sure myself what's going on anymore

Nick T

@James well it seems like a fairly two-sided issue so there should be

James

@NickT If there is no majority (and I do not mean by a narrow margin) Then I think the idea of voting on it is what needs to be questioned.

Sterno

@Stephen Maybe not Gaming.SE repscore, but I've seen StackOverflow repscore factored in when a candidate interviews for a software job

James

I do not think you want to try and push something through where 1/2 of the people will hate it.. 1/3rd can generally live with things but 1/2 is a bit much. [shrug]

Tristan

10:25 PM

@AshleyNunn UPS shows it was delivered. =\ Send me a message on steam, or email me when you read this.

Nick T

@James I'd be fine that a vote needs to generate a supermajority (2/3 or whatever) to change the status quo

sounds like the start of an answer to my question

James

@NickT Haha, Should I go add that statement to your post? :)

GnomeSlice

@Pyrodante Which?

Nick T

@James don't add it to my post...it's a follow-on answer

StrixVaria

If I write up a ginormous post on all the things that are wrong with ITG in excruciating detail, where should I put it?

GnomeSlice

10:27 PM

@StrixVaria Wastebin? :3

James

@NickT .. Do you really mean Post or are you saying dont put it in the Question of your post??

StrixVaria

@GnomeSlice There need to be negative stars.

GnomeSlice

@StrixVaria Amen to that.

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice If we can toss ITG in there to, I'm fine with that.

James

@StrixVaria Paper shredder :D (sorry! Could not resist!)

Ben Brocka

10:27 PM

@StrixVaria one of the eleventy questions about ITG on meta would surely be a fit

GnomeSlice

GAWD, I WAS JOKING.

James

@GnomeSlice aww ya beat me to it!

Nick T

@James a "post" is a question or answer

Sterno

@Ktash With 7 upvotes, I think you are now the official Gaming.SE breast expert.

OrigamiRobot

@StrixVaria Into the hearts of everyone here.

Ben Brocka

10:28 PM

@Sterno not until he gets a boobs tag badge

James

@NickT Ok, I was just meaning the whole thing.. So should I add a comment or answer in regards to maybe just requiring a 2/3rds vote?

Nick T

GnomeSlice

Why is my question getting downvoted again?

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice Because people still think it's a bad question.

GnomeSlice

Make up your damn minds, people...

James

10:29 PM

@GnomeSlice because your last comment complaining about it getting upvoted

Ktash

@Sterno Hahaha, as long as that title doesn't make it to my careers.SE page lol

OrigamiRobot

@GnomeSlice There are more than 10 people on the site...

James

Even I am considering removing my + to it because it seems more and more you are just doing it for the controversy and not the actual question which is what I was supporting

Ian Pugsley

@Ktash it'll be relatively easy to find your participation in said question, just so you know

GnomeSlice

@OrigamiRobot It was a general announcement, okay.

Ktash

10:29 PM

@BenBrocka Haha, I really want that badge just to be the only one who has it lol

Lazers

2

Q: Is there a fundamental problem with "adult" questions/content

So, before this gets started lets get something out of the way: Pornographic or nude content on this site should not be allowed as per this. However we have had several questions that are similar to: Do Costumes Affect Breast Physics? Which has stirred quite a controversy. (admittedly probably i...

discussion policy

0

Q: What determines how much experience a champion receives?

How is experience gain determined when killing minions and/or other champions? Does last hitting change experience? Distance from minions? Is experience for champion kills handled the same way?

league-of-legends

4

Q: What issues must be resolved before we vote on keeping "Identify This Game" questions?

I sincerely apologize for my weak previous procedural post (deleted, 10k only) which generated mostly pro/anti arguments which was not my intent. Due to the negative reception to the post (-5 net votes) and my procedural proposal (-2), I took that as a "just vote already", so I started a poll (l...

discussion site-policies identify-this-game

0

Q: How are race/class combinations unlocked in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer?

This ME3 wiki page has a list of possible race/class combinations, but by default only the human options are available (at least in the demo). How are the other races unlocked?

mass-effect-3

murgatroid99

@James I think you can choose what questions are on that page

Sterno

@GnomeSlice You're gonna end up rep capped on that thing by the time it's over :P

GnomeSlice

@Ktash I want it first.

Ktash

@IanPugsley Yeah, I'm not too worried about it though. I participated in the beta for sexuality.SE so if they dig a lot, it's not like they aren't going to find something

James

10:30 PM

@murgatroid99 Huh?

Ktash

@GnomeSlice what in the world is the spread on the question? (I don't have enough rep to see the +/-)

GnomeSlice

I'm gonna name some coding language 'boobs', so I can tag it on SO.

@Ktash +- 17.

Ktash

Hahaha, that is a lot of votes in both directions lol

GnomeSlice

Anyway, I'm out. poof

murgatroid99

@James You can choose which of your posts are on your Careers profile.

Nick T

10:32 PM

grrrrr

James

@murgatroid99 I honestly have no idea what you are referring to...

Nick T

all this crap made me mess up my buffer preparation

murgatroid99

That is why I only have SO posts there, even though I have higher voted Gaming.SE posts.

Nick T

now I need to dissolve more PEG which takes like an hour because I diluted it too much

Ktash

@murgatroid99 I think you're referring to @IanPugsley's comment, not James' ;)

James

10:33 PM

@StrixVaria Gist posts are a pretty good dumping ground for large posts.. but that might be my preference as we use it quite often for bug dumps in minecraft.

@Ktash I am thinking this is the case :D

murgatroid99

@Ktash Actually I was trying to refer to your comment and I misclicked by one post.

James

5

Ben Brocka

@James :(

James

Now I know why T-Rex's are always grouchy!!!

Grace Note

@James Haha

LessPop_MoreFizz

10:35 PM

Meta is hoppin' today.

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Yeah, I know I can. But if they dig into my network profile for SE, they can see it. But, again, really not worried

LessPop_MoreFizz

Also, @badp you should know better than to suggest counterflagging for chat flagging as being in any way useful.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz it'd work if there were less supervotes from mods probably

murgatroid99

@Ktash If they looked through mine they would see that my highest voted answer is for a stupid question on Programming about curly brace alignment preference.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp Possibly. But the fact is too many people just acknowledge them to make them go away.

Ktash

10:38 PM

@murgatroid99 "stupid question"? Um, I'm sorry, but curly brace positioning, just like tabs, is one of the most important things to learn as a programmer...

StrixVaria

@James Someone photoshop that stupid sticker off this image.

LessPop_MoreFizz

It would be nice if flags were only sent to users with the appropriate amount of rep on the site that chat room is linked to, and then, if fewer than x users from that site are active in chat or action the flag within $time, then forward it on to everyone with 10k combined network rep like it is now.

Ktash

Ben Brocka

Great now "boobs tag badge" is in my chat history

LessPop_MoreFizz

Because right now there are just too god damned many chat 'mods' for counterflagging to be in any way useful.

murgatroid99

10:39 PM

@Ktash I know, but questions about preferences are stupid on these sites, and my answer doesn't even correspond to my current opinion (it's from 2010)

Grace Note

@JasonBerkan If you can't see the comment I had written to address your concern, let me know and I can repeat it for you here in chat.

Ktash

@murgatroid99 Haha, I was joking. Should've added a smiley ;)

Ben Brocka

@LessPop_MoreFizz I heard if you're a mod on any SE site you're a "mod" for purposes of chat rooms; do all mods get supervotes on chat flags or what?

LessPop_MoreFizz

@BenBrocka Yep. That too.

Oak

@GnomeSlice you could try to work hard on brainfuck in SO to be the first to get a badge on it...

LessPop_MoreFizz

10:40 PM

And mods approving flags count substantially more than high rep users.

murgatroid99

@Ktash I thought you might be, but some people actually seem to be serious about that sort of thing.

James

@Ktash Haha, That is becoming my desktop background. Displacing a Black and White sheep wallpaper of almost 2 years of having lived there!

@Ktash In a non-joking manner though actually? Code formatting is very important at many companies.. EA for example (depending on which sub-developer) is known for running your code through a format verification app.. To which your bonuses/raises are evaluated against.. :)

If other people who have to deal with your code, can not read your code, you are not viewed as having a positive effect upon the team ;)

StrixVaria

@James Eclipse automatically formats my code for me...I thought every half-decent IDE did this.

It's even customized to meet my company's standards.

Ktash

@James Didn't know there were companies that were that strict, but I do agree. I was just joking about the stupid question part of it. I'm very serious about all my formatting (like two spaces after a period... OOH!)

James

@StrixVaria That is the smartthing To do.. Ive written many macros to help in that area as well.. But some standards, like my previous job, even required comment formatting above every method in a specific format for like doxygen doc generation and such.

My macros would take the highlighted text and build out the comment block for me so I could fill it out :)

PS: I never worked for EA!

Oak

10:47 PM

@Ktash I've worked at several huge, well-known technology companies. All of them had formatting guidelines, and code that doesn't pass them will not get checked in.

James

... Though I guess I did help out on a game or two that EA published...

Ullallulloo

@murgatroid99 My only answer is on that same question! \o/

James

But Thats as close to admitting that as you are going to get me :D

Ktash

@Oak Most of the companies I've worked for have been smaller and while we had guidelines, it has been more "Do this" but they never checked too much

We'll see when I start my next job this month how things are there...

James

@Ktash For the developers who work for me I am pretty lax.. C# is our common codebase and you really have to fight with Visual Studio to get its formatting to be different :) I just request all tabs be tabs and 4 characters wide :)

StrixVaria

10:49 PM

@James We use a 2-width tab here. It's infuriating.

Ktash

@James That makes me so happy to hear! :)

Oak

@James but if you work with tabs for indentation, and not spaces, then you don't care about how wide they are set to be on individual machines...

murgatroid99

@Ullallulloo I think it's a bad sign when a question asks which of 3 options is best and it has 15 answers. That's why I am kind of embarrassed about having that as my only answer there.

Ullallulloo

@murgatroid99 I was the third one to answer though IIRC.

murgatroid99

@Ullallulloo Sorting by oldest puts me at fourth and you at sixth

Ben Brocka

10:51 PM

@StrixVaria 2? Why even bother?

James

@Oak I do because some people like 2 characters with their width (Dont ask me why @StrixVaria!!!) and so when they have to put two tabs in certain locations and I have to put one you can get enomolies.

Ullallulloo

And the third wasn't even mentioned yet when I answered.

@murgatroid99 Oh. ._.

nevermind then...

StrixVaria

@BenBrocka Stuff gets completely unreadable in tight if else blocks or switches.

Oak

@James we must not be talking about the same thing... when one uses tabs for indentation, then it will look okay on all editors, no matter how many spaces are used to represent the tab... the only problem might be caused by using tabs for alignment, not indentation, which is a no-no.

murgatroid99

@Ullallulloo No wait actually I am third and you are fifth. The accepted answer came two months later.

Oak

10:53 PM

Anyway, going to sleep

Night!

Grace Note

G'nite, @Oak!

Ullallulloo

@Oak Goodnight, person not in my country.

James

@Oak Ah, I am guilty then of using tabs for alignment.. especially in C/C++ where I want to scan down a list and see only function names lined up, argument lists off to the right, what PPP level they are at, etc...

I started programming in editors that did not have Search capability as we have it today.. so being able to hold the down arrow and still understand what was scrolling by is important to me, even to this day :)

Ktash

Wow. I've seriously almost hit the rep cap for the day based on jiggle physics and screaming 12-year-olds... this is an odd day for me.

James

(ie: I learned C/C++ by programming muds over a telnet client :))

Nick T

10:57 PM

theatlantic.com/infocus/2012/02/afghanistan-february-2012/…

Pyrodante

glances back wait what?

why are we showing war pictures?

Grace Note

It happens.

Jason Berkan

@GraceNote I can't see it - go ahead.

Nick T

@Pyrodante because they're informative in a way

Pyrodante

about gaming?

Grace Note

11:00 PM

@JasonBerkan "[I was saying] "Make it clear what you're voting on". That way, people don't vote on a solution without fully understanding what it is they are voting for, and what it entails. He hadn't linked the guidelines before my comment, so it really just said "If they're specific enough". That mere sentence would've been a terrible policy"

I wasn't trying to shoot down the option - I was trying to stop it from being something easily shot down.

James

@NickT I wish I could say that news was unexpected.. but it is expected.. Unfortunately our military presence there provides a great amount of health care in the area and almost any withdraw has been always been met with actions like these to cause delays of that going away (And yes I know that is fairly cynical but it comes from friends of mine who were delayed in returning home because of actions like this)

Jason Berkan

@GraceNote OK. I spent some time thinking about it and I think any type of vote is a horrible idea.

Nick T

@GraceNote can you move Joel's post to this question? It seems like it would fit with a little prefixed statement ("in response to blog post..."), plus the non-10k ppl can see it then

Jason Berkan

We know the community is split, we know the vote will be split and that is going to lead to a bunch of unhappy people.

James

@JasonBerkan Hence why I think a 2/3rds majority instead of just a 50.0001% voting majority should be considered. But yeah, I think chances are that just means it will never pass

Grace Note

11:06 PM

@NickT I'm tempted to pull merge hax, but I've got a better idea.

James

So maybe we should move on and just try to set down some rules for ITG questions.

Nick T

@James I don't really care (well, I do, but), I just want the issue settled

Jason Berkan

@James What do you do when the winning side has less than 2/3rds? Continue this nonsense of bringing it up in meta every 6 months?

Grace Note

@LessPop I revived Joel's answer over here. You can repeat your original comment if you'd like.

James

@JasonBerkan Please seem my continued 'so maybe...' line that followed :)

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:12 PM

@GraceNote Eh, the comment is fundamentally addressed directly to @Joel. I don't see the need to migrate it, as I'm sure he has/can see it.

Grace Note

@LessPop_MoreFizz He might not be looking there and I could finagle some stuff to actually reappropriate my post to be his anyway.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@GraceNote Done then.

Nick T

I amended my original question with the supremely important: "How do we make sure this gets done?"

instead of another 6 weeks of talk

LessPop_MoreFizz

@NickT Honestly, it's the most important part and it's the one that makes me want to say I don't care what the final verdict is, JUST MAKE ONE.

badp

It's not like we currently lack a verdict yknow

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:15 PM

Or, as I so succinctly told our mods earlier, shit or get off the pot.

@badp Actually, it is. We have a roughly 50/50 split in community opinion, and a constant statement that we should revisit the subject.

badp

Oh, so we lack consensus

that's big news :P

Nick T

@badp either way there needs to be changes

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp Yes. And seeing as our community standards are determined by concensus, that's a problem.

James

@LessPop_MoreFizz The poll that was open briefly was pretty much 50/50 split.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Because we have no means to break the tie.

Nick T

11:17 PM

there seems to be consensus that the status quo sucks

LessPop_MoreFizz

@James Yes. And has been since time imemorial.

James

hmm, that was meant for @badp

badp

@NickT Half the community thinks the status quo doesn't suck

that's what I got from your poll

Nick T

Did you read any of the comments?

James

Can someone tell me technically what making a Q/A into a Wiki does to it?

Nick T

11:18 PM

they seemed to hate the current guidelines/policy

badp

What I got is that half the community thinks the status-quo is okay

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp No, I'm pretty sure if you ask half the community what they think of the status quo, it'd be pretty clear that they think it sucks but can't (and/or won't) come together to come up with a solution.

Nick T

@James No rep is earned

LessPop_MoreFizz

@James lowers the rep barrier for editing.

Grace Note

@James If you mean community wiki, it means anyone at 100 reputation can edit it without suggestions, but by extension no reputation is earned. The key point is the first one.

James

11:18 PM

@NickT Would that get around the rep problems with ITG posts if they were moderated to Wikis?

LessPop_MoreFizz

@NickT That's irrelevant on meta anyway.

Nick T

@badp "The specificity guidelines should really be clarified and solidified for this to be a valid solution"

Grace Note

@James Rep isn't a problem

James

Oh, anyone edit is a bit annoying.. hmm.

Nick T

@badp " I am really, really concerned that this is becoming exactly like the game-rec fiasco, where due to the fact that the "keep" side could not come up with a workable solution to the issues the "delete" side had, they "keep" side was put in a no-win situation."

badp

11:19 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz What is the status quo? ITG questions are okay but they need to include a long list of things that's reasonable to recall as specified in the tag wiki and they need to not get abandoned. That's what I know the status quo is

Ktash

So, I'm curious if I should clarify this question to be specifically about the demo since ME3 isn't actually out yet... What does everyone think?

James

@GraceNote It was the thing people kept going back to before though.. that it didnt work in a rep based site like this.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp All they really seem to agree on is that the solution proposed by the other half of the community (get rid of them) is worse.

Grace Note

@James I will say this time and time again, reputation is not a problem because the reason reputation ever becomes problematic is because the Votes become a problem, and Community Wiki doesn't do anything about the Votes.

badp

@LessPop_MoreFizz Oh, so the solution is the lose-lose one?

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:19 PM

@badp Pretty much. Which is the problem.

Grace Note

If reputation ever gives the impression of being a problem, community wiki's mechanics will never be the answer because it's just putting a sheet and trying to say it isn't a problem.

badp

The solution is the current list of requirements we've given to ITGs, at least that's what we tried to make it be

LessPop_MoreFizz

And now for something completely different.

badp

it is the compromise between always allow and always deny

Nick T

@LessPop_MoreFizz ? Ok...I answered part of James' question though

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:21 PM

@NickT True. I just thought he was asking about it in refrence to some of the recent uses of it on meta. But now I see that's not the case, so... nevermind.

badp

You're right, I haven't been enforcing the "abandoned" half of the deal

LessPop_MoreFizz

@badp And we haven't really been enforcing the quality half of the deal particularly well either.

badp

but the community's been pretty good on reasonably enforcing the list of requirements from what I've seen

LessPop_MoreFizz

The fact is, the status quo is just way too labor intensive to be fair to our mods and our community, IMO.

badp

It's more fair than "just ban them all"

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:22 PM

It doesn't seem right that one tag should result in so much more work.

badp

It's not just one tag, it's a question class.

Nick T

@LessPop_MoreFizz Three Little Pigs? These are the three little pigs:

LessPop_MoreFizz

Huh. When did the 'new questions with activity' dynamic update thing get added.

Nick T

Pulled pork and bacon between TWO PORKCHOPS

LessPop_MoreFizz

Because hey, that's nifty

badp

11:23 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz yup it is. I think it's today.

Grace Note

@LessPop_MoreFizz Today

LessPop_MoreFizz

@NickT It's the other white meats answer to the KFC Double Down.

badp

Saw it first on SU.

Grace Note

In other news, I had the repo person repossess my answer from Joel and give it to Joel. Yay!

James

@GraceNote Haha, that seems scary some how :)

Nick T

11:24 PM

@GraceNote you can reassign ownership of a post? Scary.

Lazers

1

Q: Do different cars of the same type have any performance difference?

In Motorstorm RC, you unlock new cars by completing certain events or getting certain trophies. These cars are split into 8 types (Monster Truck, Racing Truck, Buggy, etc.) and there are few models for each types and each models offer you different paint jobs and colors. I can tell different typ...

motorstorm-rc

Grace Note

@NickT We generally only use it for the purpose of, say, someone gets a post migrated but the ownership doesn't get transferred. However, Chief Executive Override is also a case, only for this very specific scenario.

LessPop_MoreFizz

@GraceNote Black. Fucking. Magic. You... you... witch.

Grace Note

(Or, more accurately, I begged a dev to do something because the alternative was to merge the questions and then delete all other traces of the act, and I figured that a tiny fudge would make everything a lot less messier than if I did aforementioned merge essence - essentially, everything was possible in engine but would've been terrible to do in-engine)

(I also allegedly gave said dev whiplash in trying to understand what the hejudas I was requesting)

badp

Just finished recording the final Stack Exchange podcast with @codinghorror -- should be available for d/l tomorrow

Tweeted by spolsky on February 29, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Grace Note

11:34 PM

I got to listen to it.

badp

@GraceNote Grats.

Fredy31

crashing through maybe winning ME3

Hello people

James

@Fredy31 Ello

Fredy31

SOOOO MANY WHITE STARS! Never really understood what they were

Grace Note

They're pins

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:43 PM

@Fredy31 Those are pins.

Grace Note

They stick around at the top.

LessPop_MoreFizz

They stay at the top of the list automagically.

Goddamnit @GraceNote

Grace Note

Teehee ♪

LessPop_MoreFizz

I wonder how many downvotes this terrible metaphor will attract just because people feel insulted by it.

murgatroid99

@LessPop_MoreFizz I actually kind of like that analogy, though "broken windows" probably would have gotten your point across without insulting everyone who posts ITG questions.

James

11:46 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz Me :) Same as that post over on math where the people are using guided and derogatory references and metaphors that are uncalled for in what should be a clean debate on a topic :)

LessPop_MoreFizz

@murgatroid99 Broken Windows has very specific connotations w/r/t this sort of discussion and there's a reason I didn't use it.

James

@murgatroid99 Aye, broken down house, vacant lot, non-tilled earth... etc.. anything that shows something as something to be improved upon as opposed to the only way to make the thing better is by making it not be what it is defined as.

murgatroid99

@James Without that reference though, he has a good point. We would be much more likely to come to a compromise if ITG supporters could show that without too much effort we could end up with only good ITG questions.

James

@LessPop_MoreFizz Question for ya, how am I to take anything you say in that post as clear unbiased observation due to the metaphor you have chosen?

LessPop_MoreFizz

@James I never said I was unbiased. That's the point. You want to win me over, you've gotta overcome my bias.

murgatroid99

11:50 PM

@LessPop_MoreFizz OK, I see that it's not exactly the same thing. Maybe just something that doesn't imply that asking those questions is as bad as dealing drugs.

LessPop_MoreFizz

And my Bias is that I look at ITG and see tons of bad questions.

James

@murgatroid99 I would make the same claim that we would need to have a way to make non ITG questions also only be good questions.. That system already exists.. I am not sure why voting to close, flagging and downvoting seem to not count for ITG questions

LessPop_MoreFizz

@James Because it isn't happening.

murgatroid99

@James The thing is that (according to Wikipedia), crackhouses are just broken down dwellings that drug dealers have taken over.

James

@LessPop_MoreFizz And how is a community who cant be moved to do what they should be moved to vote on doing what they should be doing?

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:51 PM

@James The system isn't working as intended for those questions and too many bad ones are sitting around if not floating to the top. Do I need to say again that I went through recently and found ONE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FIVE ITG questions that needed to be closed/deleted?

James

@murgatroid99 Yeah so to improve them you have to kick them out so they are no longer called crack houses...Lets not argue metaphors here and just stick to the topic on hand :)

@LessPop_MoreFizz To that I say, good on you, nice job, not flag them to be Closed and Deleted.now

LessPop_MoreFizz

@James Until ITG proponents can give me a concrete, demonstrable set of standards and say 'we are adhering to these', and then actually clearly and frequently take action on questions that don't meet them, I refuse to acknowledge the various handwavy 'only the good ones' bullshit.

James

Bah, Now flag them.. not Not.. stupid editing thingy :)

Grace Note

@James He did. He brought up a giant meta post pointing them out.

James

@GraceNote I know, I read it and that is why I am confused.. cause I thought that was the action to be taken but instead it just seemed to be a launching point for more discussion :D

LessPop_MoreFizz

11:54 PM

@James /facepalm you're like talking to a brick wall, y'know that? The whole point is that the crackhouse is a mess and needs to be fixed up or torn down. I'm of the opinion that we can't fix it up, so we should just tear it down. Lots of people seem to think it can be saved, and I'm asking them to prove it.

Put your money where your god damned mouth is.

and stop with the vague hand wavey inclusive bullshit.

And on that note, I am going to walk away from the keyboard before I get angry.

James

@LessPop_MoreFizz Judging by what you said, too late.

LessPop_MoreFizz

Because this is the first time in a very long time that a conversation here is risking me getting angry.