/dev/chat - 2019-01-17 (page 1 of 2)

« first day (3022 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (1926 days later) »

2:00 AM

Hi all. I was hoping someone may be able to clarify the use of the command type. I understand that it's a builtin command.It isn't clear as to why and when type should be used. I read (unix.stackexchange.com/questions/85249/…), however it's no clearer.

2:59 AM

In reading (robelle.com/smugbook/whence.html), it suggests that type is one of a number of commands to determine if a particular command is an alias, program, script or built-in shell command. What is the typical use case of type in a real-world scenario?

3 hours later…

5:47 AM

Hi all, what does it mean when a computer has a serial console but no monitor?

Is (youtube.com/watch?v=eQCJy9iUvTA) a good example of a serial console but no monitor?

3 hours later…

8:26 AM

I've a rpm package containing some files, eg
rpm -qal | grep lsof
/opt/usr/sbin/lsof
/opt/share/doc/lsof-4.82
/opt/share/man/man8/lsof.8.gz

In my case it is mounted on other filesystem like EBS, is there a way in rpm or debian based machine where i
could delete only the /opt/usr, but not /opt/share files,
I tried using rpm -e but didn't worked

4 hours later…

12:22 PM

@Stuxnet78 That rpm package is violating the FHS. Unfortunately, that's not unusual.

@Stuxnet78 I'm not sure what you are asking. Why do you want to delete some of the files? And if you want to delete them, for whatever reason, then just delete them. What does rpm come into it?

3 hours later…

2:57 PM

Any awk gurus care to help point me in the right direction with an issue?

$ smbios -t SMB_TYPE_MEMDEVICE | awk '/Tag/{s=$0} /Size/{print s,$0}'
  Location Tag: P1-DIMMA1   Size: 34359738368 bytes
  Location Tag: P1-DIMMA2   Size: Not Populated
  Location Tag: P1-DIMMB1   Size: 34359738368 bytes
  Location Tag: P1-DIMMC1   Size: Not Populated
  Location Tag: P1-DIMMD1   Size: Not Populated
  Location Tag: P1-DIMMD2   Size: Not Populated
  Location Tag: P1-DIMME1   Size: 34359738368 bytes

I want to filter out any "Size: Not Populated" but still show the location tag column, but all my attempts at adding an if statement have failed

@Jesse_b something like awk '/Tag/{s=$0} /Size/ && !/Not Populated/ {print s,$0}'?

@StephenKitt That also doesn't print the "Location tag" if the size is not populated

gist.github.com/jessebutryn/a82fb82e76113452ad413429b5c3a095

The output on top is the goal

@Jesse_b ah, right, I wasn't sure what you meant

the AWKish way would be awk '/Tag/{s=$0} /Size: Not Populated/ { print s; next } /Size/ {print s,$0}'

Yeah I am not sure how to word it. My if statements have either done what your command did or outright failed :p

awk '/Tag/{s=$0} /Size/ { if ($0 ~ /Not Populated/) { print s } else { print s,$0 }}' works too

3:08 PM

Nice, that's it! Ty sir!

3:42 PM

Thanks @StephenKitt, that command is working but it's also printing a 0 for each block that doesn't match

gist.github.com/jessebutryn/a82fb82e76113452ad413429b5c3a095

I tried changing output = 0 to output = "" but it didn't change anything

@Jesse_b Sorry, I’d left some debugging in...

I’ve updated the answer.

ty sir!

(BTW I think it’s better to comment on answers, rather than in chat, for problems with answers ;-). That way other readers know what’s going on.)

perfect

Yeah I normally would but I figured I would have more issues explaining the problem and wanted to include the output in a gist

Thanks again though, that is some advanced awk wizardry. I know I am not an awk expert by any means but it still amazes me how much I don't know about it :p

@Jesse_b heh, I wrote a genetic algorithm system in AWK at university, some of that has stayed with me

3:56 PM

Oooooh, I smell an ed question/answer!

@JeffSchaller ed! ed! ed! chanted the crowds, going wild

Jeff threw himself and surfed the crowd who carried him to a terminal with a shell prompt proudly blinking

the only editor on the system was ed

$ update-alternatives --config editor

There are 1 choices for the alternative editor (providing /usr/bin/editor).

  Selection    Path                Priority   Status
------------------------------------------------------------
* 0            /bin/ed             -100       auto mode
  1            /bin/ed             -100       manual mode

Jeff raises his plastic cup and yells, "hold my beer!"

Stephen wonders who's holding all the beer around here...

ed is in the house

here I thought I might go a whole week without using ed, man; it was close, the last one was Jan 10th

4:12 PM

I think we need to have an ed intervention for @JeffSchaller :p That monkey just will not get off his back

I can't even pretend to be a curmudgeon who won't use sed, after that answer

@StephenKitt - Hi there Stephen, would you mind helping clarify what does it mean when a computer has a serial console but no monitor? Is (youtube.com/…) a good example of a serial console (albeit it's a USB connection but is similar in principle) but no monitor?

@Motivated what don’t you understand in “a computer has a serial console but no monitor”? (I’m not saying you should understand it, it’s a broad topic so I’d like to know what you know.)

youtube.com/watch?v=eQCJy9iUvTA is indeed a good example of a serial console and no monitor: the computer being used (the Jetson) has no monitor connected, and Jim interacts with it over a serial console (over a USB cable).

@Stephen Kitt- I'm currently reading a book on Linux commands and the topic touches boot options when installing a particular distribution of Linux. It reads defines "Your computer has a serial console, but no regular monitor." as the problem. The description is "You can run the install in text mode from the serial terminal. Use tty0 for the first virtual console, or ttyS0 for the first serial port.". The solution is "console=/dev/tty0".

@StephenKitt - I don't understand what it means to have a serial console (unless it is referring to a serial port that a device is connected to ).

@StephenKitt - Great. I wasn't far off from my understanding then.

@StephenKitt - On another topic In reading (robelle.com/smugbook/whence.html), it suggests that type is one of a number of commands to determine if a particular command is an alias, program, script or built-in shell command. What is the typical use case of type in a real-world scenario?

4:28 PM

@Motivated yes, “have a serial console” means “there’s an input/output device of some sort connected to a serial port”, and the console=ttyS0 configuration tells the kernel to use that instead of (or in addition to) the default input/output console (the keyboard and monitor you’re familiar with).

@Motivated someone on my team is used to using pg as a pager (grep something | pg); on some systems, pg isn't installed, so they've set up an alias: alias pg=more

so if I "walked up" to that system and was surprised by the behavior of "pg", I could use type pg to find out it was really more

an AIX system has [ as a built-in, so type -a [ returns one line; on a Linux box, it's two lines: builtin and /usr/bin/[

@StephenKitt - Thanks. Would it be fair and reasonable to assume that the use of a serial console is only limited to an input and output device other than the keyboard, mouse and monitor i'm most familiar with?

@JeffSchaller or as on your system, for file in /usr/bin/*; do echo alias ${file##*/}=ed; unalias ed; done

@Motivated I’m not sure what you mean; if you’re using a keyboard and monitor directly attached to a system, you’re not using a serial console.

@JeffSchaller - Thanks Jeff. Based on your example, it would suggest that type is used to determine the function of a particular file. Would that be correct?

@StephenKitt U&L Gone Wild.

4:35 PM

@FaheemMitha heh, U&L Chat Gone Wild would be more realistic ;-)

(for some value of “Wild”)

@StephenKitt That's what I meant.

@StephenKitt - If i have a keyboard and mouse connected to a system and in addition have a Jetson for example attached to a serial console i.e. USB, would that be analogous of the example of an input and/or output device that is connected to a serial port.

@Motivated the keyboard and mouse don’t count because they’re not attached directly to the Jetson

@StephenKitt - When you say they don't count, do you mean to say that the keyboard, mouse and monitor are not considered to be the serial console?

@StephenKitt About that iPhone question....dancing at midnight invoking the God Steve Jobs might work ;-P

4:41 PM

@Motivated yes

@RuiFRibeiro yeah probably the only hope short of a professional data recovery service (or someone with a soldering iron and some flash reading equipment)

@Motivated originally, serial consoles were this sort of device

Computer terminal

A computer terminal is an electronic or electromechanical hardware device that is used for entering data into, and displaying or printing data from, a computer or a computing system. The teletype was an example of an early day hardcopy terminal, and predated the use of a computer screen by decades.Early terminals were inexpensive devices but very slow compared to punched cards or paper tape for input, but as the technology improved and video displays were introduced, terminals pushed these older forms of interaction from the industry. A related development was timesharing systems, which evolved...

“console” is the terminal used by the system administrator to control the system

nowadays terminals are emulated

@StephenKitt I do enjoy having coworkers, so that's in my personal bash profile, not system-wide :)

and the serial console on the Jetson in the example is the serial program run in the X terminal emulator on Jim’s PC

@JeffSchaller aw man, just think of the fun you could have

@StephenKitt - Thanks. That's clearer now. I have to refer to multiple sources to try and make sense of a single concept. Only if i could download the understanding :-)

@StephenKitt shoehorning ed into U&L answers will have to qualify as my fun for now :)

@StephenKitt - To clarify, do you mean to say that the serial console is the Jetson connected via USB that is interacting with a X terminal emulator?

@StephenKitt - Yes, i have attempted to understand the concept of console and terminal. It's a minefield of information to digest (at least for me at the moment).

4:47 PM

@Motivated no; the Jetson’s serial console is minicom, which just happens to be running in its own terminal emulator

@StephenKitt - So the serial console is not the hardware then? I kept thinking it was.

@Motivated the serial console is a terminal of some sort (hardware, which was the case in the past, or emulated), connected to the system whose console it is, over a serial port

in some cases even the serial port is emulated

in the Jetson example, the hardware is a cable which provides a connection between a “serial port” on the Jetson and a USB-connected “serial port” on the PC, and the serial console itself is the communication tool used to talk to the Jetson

@StephenKitt - It's like a tongue twister. :-) Ah, the example is very helpful in understanding.

@StephenKitt - Is it fair to assume then in all cases the serial console in always the communication tool such as the terminal emulator?

@Motivated pretty much; I’d say it’s whatever provides the terminal, which is usually some form of terminal emulator nowadays (e.g. minicom or even screen).

@StephenKitt - Probably digging a hole for myself here. Why call it console and/or terminal? It's confusing to go between the terms since my understanding of a console at least in today's term is the virtual console e.g. tty and the terminal is pty and pts.

5:02 PM

19 mins ago, by Stephen Kitt

“console” is the terminal used by the system administrator to control the system

@StephenKitt - So console and terminals are the same?

@StephenKitt - Or is console a specialized terminal?

@Motivated the console is a terminal which is guaranteed to be available (as far as possible)

@StephenKitt - Just lost me there. What does it mean to be available as far as possible?

@Motivated the terminology stems from systems which had multiple connected terminals; one of the terminals was designated as the console, and when the system booted up, only the console was active initially (in single-user mode), and the other terminals were activated later (in multi-user mode)

from the kernel’s perspective, the console is always present, other terminals may come and go

and then the terminology ends up being confusing since obviously the “user end” of the console can come and go too (you can close minicom at any time)

@StephenKitt - So in the context of consoles and terminals, do you mean to say that a computer along with a monitor, keyboard and mouse are not considered to be a console and/or terminal?

@StephenKitt - So hardware is not considered to be a console and terminal and it is the communication tool that is software that is either the console or terminal?

5:14 PM

@Motivated on Linux, the default console is the virtual console which uses the attached keyboard and monitor, it’s not a serial console but it is a console

32 mins ago, by Stephen Kitt

Computer terminal

A computer terminal is an electronic or electromechanical hardware device that is used for entering data into, and displaying or printing data from, a computer or a computing system. The teletype was an example of an early day hardcopy terminal, and predated the use of a computer screen by decades.Early terminals were inexpensive devices but very slow compared to punched cards or paper tape for input, but as the technology improved and video displays were introduced, terminals pushed these older forms of interaction from the industry. A related development was timesharing systems, which evolved...

@Motivated the above are hardware terminals and can be used as consoles (serial consoles in fact since they connect over a serial port)

@StephenKitt - If i have understood this correctly, is that hardware terminals such as the one pictured was considered to be a console since it communicated over a serial port. Sorry for the questions since i'm trying to wrap the concepts in my head between hardware and software consoles and terminals.

a console is a special terminal; the console may be over a serial port; terminals may be over serial ports

I assume you've seen unix.stackexchange.com/q/4126/117549

5:38 PM

@JeffSchaller - Yes, have. I have also asked questions for example (unix.stackexchange.com/questions/180943/terminal-vs-bash/…) and the answers vary and hence my confusion.

@JeffSchaller - If you look at (unix.stackexchange.com/questions/180943/terminal-vs-bash/…), you'll notice a reference to consoles being physical devices as well as the comment on the use of a laptop being the console.

@JeffSchaller - Based on your comments and @StephenKitt, it would suggest that consoles are not physical. They are a form of communication.

@Motivated you’re mixing up “serial” and “console”; a console is a terminal with a specific role; in the Jetson example, that terminal is connected over a serial port, which is the form of communication.

In the Jetson example, minicom is emulating a terminal; that terminal is connected over a serial connection to the Jetson board, and because the Jetson’s kernel is configured to use a serial-connected device as its console, minicom ends up acting as the Jetson’s console.

minicom doesn’t know it’s a console; all it knows is that it’s emulating a terminal.

And I realise it’s all terribly confusing, because different people have slightly different definitions, and everything can be physical or emulated.

You can even have a console over the network: debamax.com/blog/2019/01/03/debugging-with-netconsole

@StephenKitt - If i were to simplify the concepts, can i say conclusively that the keyboard, mouse and monitor are not the console and/or terminal or do are they considered to be a physical representation of a terminal?

5:53 PM

@Motivated no, you can’t say that; you can say conclusively that they are not a serial console. But by default the keyboard and monitor connected to the system are its console (forget about the mouse).

@StephenKitt - Okay. That's clearer. Now if i attached the Jetson and attach it via USB, is the Jetson considered to be part of the console and it's connection to be the serial console?

@StephenKitt - I also assume the "system" is the CPU and operating system.

@Motivated no, the PC provides the serial console for the Jetson.

@Motivated yeah pretty much

@StephenKitt - The serial console being the type of physical connection or the emulation of terminal establishing serial connection or both?

@Motivated “serial” is the type of connection, “console” is the role of the terminal being emulated

@StephenKitt - So in this instance the type of connection is USB and "console" is the function the terminal is establishing to communicate with the Jetson?

6:00 PM

@Motivated USB on the PC end, something else on the Jetson end, and it appears as a serial connection. The whole contraption is a console because the Jetson’s kernel is told to use its serial port as a console (console=ttyS0).

@StephenKitt - The whole contraption being the Jetson, USB on the PC and some type of connection of the Jetson being the console?

@Motivated no, the PC running minicom connected to the Jetson.

@StephenKitt - So minicom is the console?

16 mins ago, by Stephen Kitt

In the Jetson example, minicom is emulating a terminal; that terminal is connected over a serial connection to the Jetson board, and because the Jetson’s kernel is configured to use a serial-connected device as its console, minicom ends up acting as the Jetson’s console.

I’ve got to go

@StephenKitt - All good. I'll read the answers again and attempt to anchor them to examples so that i have a clearer understanding. Thanks for your patience for seemingly obvious concepts.

@StephenKitt. I am attempting to have a precise understanding so that it enables me to establish a stronger foundation to progress further.

6:09 PM

@Motivated you should meet Tim!

6:20 PM

@Motivated Stephen Kitt is giving you a fairly strict definition of "console" (or at least trying to). Beware of confusion from people using that term more broadly, or in non-Unix contexts. E.g., if you have a Windows server where people connect with remote desktop, the keyboard/mouse/monitor connected to that server would likely be called the console. At least in the context of, say, an admin fixing it: "can't get to it over the network, will have to log in at the console".

It's still a similar idea, Windows of course presumes a GUI. And that's a special display, because it's the one that is always there and is used by the admin to fix the system if it breaks.

It might be useful to think of it historically too: you'd have a (big, think mainframe) computer system with a bunch of terminals (the actual hardware devices, pictures posted before) connected. Those terminals were spread across the building, or even in different buildings connected via phone lines. There was also a terminal in the room with the computer, that was the console. It was used by the admin(s). It was available even if someone put a backhoe through the phone lines, etc.

Potentially, the console also has special permissions. E.g., you could limit root login to console only — then you can use physical security (console behind a locked door) in addition to passwords.

7:10 PM

Finally bought an SSD for my main system and I'm now unsure how I want to configure my partitions. Anyone with a 1SSD+1HDD configuration that can relate their experiences?

@Braiam I use windows for my main system ducks however I use a 10k RPM HDD for my boot filesystem and only use my SSD for games. My system boots almost immediately with the 10k spinning disk so I didn't see a need for my OS on the ssd

Does anyone know a way to stop programs like Okular, when invoked from a terminal (like Konsole), from writing reams of pointless garbage to the screen?

@Braiam Only one SSD? And yes, I have both HDDs and SSDs here.

I've semi-retired my HDDs. I put volumes on them that are infrequently used. LIke data.

You use LVM, right?

7:26 PM

@Braiam I have SSD + HDD configs, but not on a desktop yet. But more or less universally, you want to put things that are accessed frequently on the SSD.

Use HDDs for what they excel at — cost per gigabyte. So e.g., bulk video store.

Or music collection. Or any number of things where increasing IOPS (I/O per second) by 2–3 orders of magnitude isn't worth it.

@Jesse_b My hdd is a 7200 HGST 1TB

> /dev/null?

@FaheemMitha Yes.

@FaheemMitha Had to stop using it.

@Braiam you need to put ` around that. Or maybe you can \>, not sure

@derobert 4 space indentation FTW

(and besides, it'd probably be 2>/dev/null )

\>/dev/null

... well, that worked well :-(

2>/dev/chat

7:31 PM

@Braiam Why?

@FaheemMitha on a serious note, you ought to be able to change the KDE/Qt logging level config. I know that's a thing you can do. I forget how, though, and would personally okular file.pdf >/dev/null 2>&1 if I cared...

@derobert I should have mentioned that I don't want to do it individually for every instance. Way too much work.

But does the KDE/Qt logging config control it? That seems a bit fine grained. What about GNOME programs?

@derobert Yeah, I was thinking that. I need to re-review how many writes is the drive rated at. There are many small writes on my /home directory.

@FaheemMitha Moving disks and almost lost some data thanks to interactions with btrfs.

okular () {
  okular "$@" &>/dev/null
}

@FaheemMitha It wouldn't affect GNOME programs. It should work for all Qt programs, though.

7:34 PM

@Braiam Make sure you have up to date backups before major changes. And drive carefully.

@derobert Yes, that was my point.

@Braiam And is btrfs stable yet? Still using ext4 here.

@Braiam Unless you picked up a ancient SSD on ebay, it's rated at more writes than you're doing.

When it comes to filesystems, I'm super-conservative.

@FaheemMitha Yeah, got two 1TB drive, one for backups.

The less flippant answer is you can monitor how quickly you're going through its life using smartctl. Which I've found — even for databases — is not a real problem.

@derobert You're still using HDDs?

I guess SSD prices aren't dropping fast anymore.

7:36 PM

@FaheemMitha Yep, haven't upgraded desktops in a while.

2013 here. I wonder how long this motherboard is going to last.

(And even in new stuff, I still use HDDs for the better cost-per-GB for large files, like MPEGTS)

Yes, the price of amazon.in/gp/product/B00S17G21K is more now than I paid for it in June 2017. Bummer.

@derobert Well, as long as speed of access is not an issue.

I heard rumors that you can use SSDs to buffer.

You can get 128GB of SSD for as little as 30 USD.

1TB for ~110USD

Then again, the Rupee has depreciated.

7:39 PM

177 Wear_Leveling_Count 0x0013 085 085 000 Pre-fail Always - 855 ... from a Samsung 850 Pro that's been running a pretty write-heavy MySQL instance for ~4 years

All of 15% through its wear leveling life. So that should last around 30 years total, I guess. Not going to worry about it.

231 SSD_Life_Left 0x0000 097 097 000 Old_age Offline - 3 ... that's a Kingston, with a backup database on it. Maybe only half a year on that, though. (The previous SSD failed, but from something other than running out of writes — it just stopped working. It was a Samsung no less...)

@Braiam Or you can get 6–8x the space in a HDD.

amazon.com/Seagate-BarraCuda-3-5-Inch-Computers-ST10000DM0004/…

@derobert The 1TB drive I got costed me ~56 when I bought it

A bit over $100 gets you somewhere around 6TB in HDD space.

But yeah, flash is ~7× the cost (per GB) for ~3000× the speed (IOPS).

An excellent deal, for most things.

Except for, e.g., storing MythTV recordings. Those are huge. Easily 5GiB/hour.

7:54 PM

I am planning to use my older system for that instead.

@derobert have you used a nvme drive?

@Braiam nope, unfortunately

Those things read/write speed are amazing. Even dramless ones.

@FaheemMitha If people would just listen to me more, this planet would be a better place to be...

:D :D :D

@derobert Man, I've been slammed lately. Too tired to even look at podis.

Hey @Fabby. How are you doing?

@Braiam I don't think I've heard of a nvme drive. Though of course I can look it up.

@Fabby Maybe you can join Paula Poundstone on her podcast.

8:04 PM

@FaheemMitha It looks like a DRAM chip with less connectors.

(Or maybe you are her. It's the Internet, how would we ever know?)

@derobert :D :D :D

@derobert I miss all these references. I should get out more.

@derobert Not really...

@Fabby I see you haven't yet purchased that "Kiss The Cook" apron.

8:05 PM

@FaheemMitha I mean, they're even hyperlinked. It's a bad sign if you even miss the hyperlinked references.

:48552446 That's the kind of evidence that has convinced The Frying Pan that I'm a mushroom.

@FaheemMitha I don't buy any because everyone always buys them for me.

I guess I must be a messy cook.

@derobert Lemme look for a pic when I was a kid.

I missed that one. Though I'm not sure how posting multiple photos helps... :-D

That's all the proof I'm going to give

@derobert Yes, I expect it is.

@Fabby Indeed. Two pictures was enough proof for The Frying Pan, so I guess that's good enough :-D

8:09 PM

@derobert If you would post multiple pictures of you as a young and now old Julia set, I would still not think you're a julia set.

@derobert Did they confuse you with Gilles?

@derobert It helped me back when I was Internet dating...

Cool pic! Can you send me one when you were a kid?

No pic or totally different pic = fake pic.

@derobert The probability of Ms.Pounstone hanging out in U&L chat is remote.

@FaheemMitha No, but I'm probably supposed to indignantly ask you if you think all fungi look the same. Or something like that.

@derobert Downloaded EP0

8:12 PM

@Fabby I'd have to go find one.....

@derobert Actually, if Gilles were here, he'd remind me that it's the picture of a mushroom's reproductive apparatus.

Yes, Gilles and his NSFW avatar :-P

@derobert I'm on my private PC now, so easier to find pics when I was a kid then now. The one I showed you is nearly 3 years old.

I don't like my pics being taken.

I'm at work, so don't really have picture collections sitting on my work PC

@derobert I only have my badge pic on my work PC.

8:14 PM

@Fabby While you're here, do you have thoughts about those ThermoWorks thermometers?

(and a few of my cartoons like this one:)

E.g. The ChefAlarm. Though ThermoWorks might be more of a US thing.

user image

@FaheemMitha I'm done discussing thermometers.

get a decent one.

with a published accuracy.

They're somewhere in Utah, based on their web site.

The one that you showed me last time was good: -50 to +250 to 0.1 accurracy

8:17 PM

@Fabby Decent is highly subjective.

@FaheemMitha Well, the last one you showed me had my approval.

>:-)

Well, supposedly ThermoWorks thermometers are the best things since sliced bread. So they look like the ticket.

@Fabby Yes, you said that already.

You've been talking about a thermometer for how long now? 2 weeks?

All those Thermoworks people look awfully cheerful. And also, wholesome.

Please allow me to repeat myself twice today... >:-)

8:19 PM

@Fabby I haven't kept track.

@Fabby Faheem is a calculated individual. He took his time selecting a kitchen scale too

I don't think @FaheemMitha actually has ever bought anything. Only spent years and years considering it :-/

I am the exact opposite. I buy things after barely researching them. If it's not the most expensive one and has semi decent reviews I'll buy it

@derobert That's false. Amazon helpfully tells me that I've made 24 orders in the last 6 monhts.

And it's been a slow period, what with all the severe personal trauma.

@FaheemMitha shock

8:21 PM

Though I seem to spend a lot of time buying stuff for other people.

I should try being a selfish jerk who goes around kicking people in the balls. It seems to work for the current resident of the White House.

@derobert :D :D :D

@FaheemMitha I believe he prefers to have staffers do the kicking for him. Too much physical activity.

@derobert I'm speaking metaphorically.

@Jesse_b It depends: Bought my new laptop after one hour of scrounging around in the shop as my previous one broke down quite suddenly.

Actually my yearly purchase average on Amazon seems to be relatively steady.

8:23 PM

@FaheemMitha I can tell you for sure that Americans love seeing someone get kicked in the balls

@Jesse_b Well, that's unfortunate. Why?

I wanted the MSI, but they were not in stock, so I bootel lubuntu off a USB stick off the Acer and it worked, so I bought it.

@FaheemMitha Like right now he has Mitch McConnell (not even a member of his staff!) making sure no spending bills get to his desk, to save him the arduous work of vetoing a bill

Oh, and hi @Jesse_b. You just sort of appeared. How are you doing?

@derobert How do you know this?

@FaheemMitha Probably because of "Americas funniest videos"

8:24 PM

@Jesse_b At least if its the right someone.

@FaheemMitha I am well, how are you?

Speaking of Gilles, he seems to have deserted us. Maybe he's gone somewhere more interesting.

@Jesse_b I'm ok. Currently fielding a booking request from Germany.

@Jesse_b A few hours ago I told one colleague to say hi to another colleague and then give him a short, swift kick to the goolies for divulging my name...

I occasionally have my guests ask me if I ever sleep, since I respond at all hours of the day and night. It's a little rude, I feel.

... then I found out she was a woman.

8:25 PM

@FaheemMitha Mitch McConnell is the Senate majority leader, who isn't letting the Senate vote on any bills to re-open the government unless Trump approves. The second bit about arduous work is of course sarcastic.

@Fabby It hurts them too

@derobert How helpful of him.

@Jesse_b Possibly less.

@FaheemMitha One day when I visit India I will stay in your dungeon

s/dungeon/airbnb/

@Jesse_b I mean: the person who I was talking to to go give my (male) colleague a kick.

I've never met a female Network engineer before... (thinking... thinking some more... yeah, never)

@Jesse_b Promises, promises. Yes, it's deep, dark, and filled with torture implements.

Maybe I should rent it out as a sex dungeon. Whatever that is.

8:28 PM

@FaheemMitha I'm sure Google could fill you in. Not that I'd really recommend asking it...

Ok, that's weird. Thermoworks has emails of all its employees on their web page. Are they located on a different planet?

Attached to their pictures.

I don't think I've ever seen that before.

@FaheemMitha :p us-east.manta.joyent.com/jesse.butryn/public/share/uber.png

If you really must know, I have severe problems with buyer remorse. So I research the crap out of everything. I usually throw in healthy pauses to make sure I'm not doing impulse buys. I don't really enjoy buying stuff, but sometimes it's necessary.

@Jesse_b Meaning Uber, I suppose. And their ilk.

@FaheemMitha A lot of it looks really weird to folks outside India because, e.g., those kitchen scales you were looking at, here, are like the cost of a cheap (dining out) dinner. They're trivial.

@FaheemMitha Yeah but I am equally as skeptical about airbnb, it seems odd to be to find a random stranger on the internet and then stay in their house

Although I suppose you have the same chances of being murdered in a hotel, and most people are generally good people

Something about the internet really brings out the creeps though

8:32 PM

@Jesse_b Especially if you stay at Bates.

@derobert Yes, I see your point. But I don't really have a lot of money. So I try to make it count.

I think Americans spend money more freely. It's a different kind of culture.

@Jesse_b Not that random. You're forgetting about the reviews. I'm now up to 136. And that's with lots of people not reviewing me - jerks.

@FaheemMitha I agree but I think they are weird for it. People wont bat an eye to spend $500 on a new phone but then complain it costs "too much" to eat healthy

Been hovering in the mid-80s 5 star reviews for like a couple of years now. It's hard to get higher.

Actually, I don't worry about spending money on food. But other than that, I'm very cheap. But if I buy something, I want to make it count.

Well, proper food.

@Jesse_b Well, part of that is probably a misunderstanding of what it means to eat healthy. And some of its true in terms of time — preparing healthy food does take more time than a lot of unhealthy options.

@derobert Yeah, I wasn't trying to argue if it is cheaper or not which I don't think it is, but just that many people in this country seem to have misguided priorities

8:37 PM

@derobert And it's not just about the money. If you buy something that isn't good, well, you're stuck with something not good. Which does not, um, feel good.

@FaheemMitha Or you return it. Or if its cheap enough, toss it.

And I realise Amazon accepts returns, but I don't really like doing that. Though I guess I'm going to have to do so right now. I bought a belt, but it doesn't fit. :-(

There is a stigma that comes with not having certain things like: new car, new phone, new technology in general

@derobert See above. And toss it? Eek.

Actually, when I was in the US, I did research stuff, but probably not that much.

Josh from thermoworks technical support looks like he's tired of putting up with my shit

8:40 PM

Actually, in the US it's easier, because you just have a lot more choices. Including, often, stellar options. Which you then, choose, naturally. Part of the problem here is that often there are no good options. Then you can either put a lot of effort into trying to find a good one, or accept a crappy one.

@Jesse_b Definitely. Worrying there isn't a greybeard among them. Who answers the tough questions? :-D

@Jesse_b I wonder if they keep that page current.

@derobert Wesley looks like he's been around the block a few times

@Jesse_b Yeah, but I suspect he's pretending to be cheery while planning revenge. Which I guess is expected, maybe they just made him shave for photos.

@FaheemMitha maybe check the wayback machine to see how often its updated?

@derobert Yes, I could do that.

8:45 PM

Not a very diverse company

Hmm, the metrologist has a bit of a gray beard.

@Jesse_b Indeed. Wonder how much that's just what that region of Utah is like.

@derobert If you mean Tom Chief Metrologist, I was about to observe the same.

@derobert Isn't Utah like solidly white and super-Conservative? Bright Red, in other words?

I had a friend once at the University of Utah, Salt Lake. He wasn't very happy. And he's neither very political, nor very sensitive.

Definitely super-conservative, not sure if it's 100% white as well. Not without looking up stats.

@derobert Well, I guess a US state can't control immigration. Though I suppose they could make people uncomfortable.

In the short span commuting and reading the transcript since my last message, I'm unsure how we arrived at the current topic... unless it's a ongoing meme

8:48 PM

the 2010 census says Utah is 88.6% white

@Jesse_b Is that high?

factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/cf/1.0/en/zip/84003/ALL .. that zip code is too

@Braiam What current topic?

@FaheemMitha Seems kind of high

@Jesse_b Oh.

I've met a few people from Utah. Mormons, of course. There was a grad student at Duke. Nice guy. Very upbeat.

I remember that I had some Mormon missionaries come to my door one day. To my surprise, I recognized one of them. Curt has introduced us. It was kind of weird.

I wonder, if I converted, would I get to stay in the US? Might be worth it.

8:52 PM

Ok this timelapse of oysters cleaning water is freaking cool youtube.com/watch?v=qCE48tNf5lg

@FaheemMitha I don't think Mormons get special visas.

Hmm, the German chap is a music and video producer.

@derobert Dammit.

@FaheemMitha: Have you tried to move to the US and been denied? I would think you could probably easily find work here

You could try Canada. I hear they currently welcome immigrants. At least immigrants who can put up with the cold...

And I think he's actually Russian.

8:54 PM

Canada is pretty strict on immigration as well

@Jesse_b Um, I used to live there. Did you miss that part?

@FaheemMitha I know for education right? I wasn't sure if you tried to stay and were denied

@derobert I actually once made a Canadian immigration application. It got thrown out because I didn't do the paperwork correctly.

@Jesse_b Well, I worked there for a while too.

@Braiam very cool! Did you catch 99percentinvisible.org/episode/oyster-tecture ?

The US Govt. makes it very hard for Indians. Details available if anyone cares. But you probably don't.

8:56 PM

@FaheemMitha Specifically harder for Indians than other nationalities?

I think there was a Eastern European guy there at the same time as me - he got residency almost immediately, as I recall.

And to be fair we still don't know what Indian is, we still call Native Americans "Indian"

@Jesse_b The US does immigration on a per country basis. I think they have a quota. Guess what the most populous country in the world is? I'll give you a hint - it isn't Bulgaria.

@JeffSchaller no. An article of cnn features The Billion Oyster Project that will intervene the NYC water canals and someone linked that video

So if you are from, say, Denmark, you could probably get residency in no time flat.

8:58 PM

@Braiam oyster-tecture

I doubt there a lot of Danes moving to the US.

@Jesse_b Blame Spaniards for that.

Specifically Colon.

@Braiam It's been over 500 years! :p

Anyway, it seems nobody is interested in discussing thermometers. Well, except for Anthony, and he's been super helpful.

@Braiam Colon?

"You guys are Indian right?"
"No, we are Apache"
"naaaaw, you're Indian!"

« first day (3022 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (1926 days later) »

Transcript for

Jan '1917

/dev/chat

General discussion for unix.stackexchange.com. If you have a q...

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile