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slm

11:11 PM

You realize that the sendmail server that comes with CentOS works out of the box, right 8-)

Craig Sanders

even nethack will deliver your mail for you

nethackwiki.com/wiki/Mail_daemon

s/for you/to you/

@slm - i thought centos was jumping onto the 'oooh MTAs are too scary for our dumb users" bandwagon along with RH and Ubuntu, and dumping sendmail-by-default.

terdon

Well CentOS is used almost exclusively in professional environments so it makes sense

slm

6 did

that's a function of RHEL

terdon

@CraigSanders you mean RH or Fedora

slm

5 used sendmail, and it's still in the repos,

Craig Sanders

11:15 PM

both

but they're dumping it in future versions. short-sighted insanity, imo

terdon

seriously, RHEL does not have a working sendmail out of the box?

shit, I can understand it (kinda) for Ubuntu or even Debian but RHEL?

derobert

@terdon Debian's does work out of the box if you aren't installing with the highest debconf priority (highest=fewest questions asked)

AFAIK, RedHat still doesn't have anything like debconf

terdon

Really? Mine doesn't

No, scratch that actually, it does but badly

slm

@CraigSanders - agreed, it's only just worked for the last 15 years

@terdon - it comes with postfix now

Craig Sanders

@slm thought you were going. i added my own answer to that Q.

@terdon - debconf for exim and postfix etc cope with most common situations (stand-alone mta, smarthost, etc). for unusual requirements, like encryption or smtp auth, you may need to do some extra configuration by hand.

derobert

11:23 PM

Anyway, now I'm going.

slm

@CraigSanders - I did go, now I'm home

terdon

@CraigSanders I'm not complaining, I haven't even touched it. I was just testing a web tool that I run on another server locally, sent me an email by mistake and thought it failed.

It actually arrived a few days later

slm

@CraigSanders - nice answer

Craig Sanders

you must live very close to work.

slm

30 min.

I live in Rochester, New York

everything is 20 min. from everything else

Craig Sanders

11:28 PM

@terdon - a few days? unless there was a config error that got fixed, that sounds like the destination host was unreachable

terdon

@CraigSanders doubt it, it was gmail.

I know, I was really surprised but never investigated and forgot about it. I kinda figured it was trying various smpt servers and waiting and it finally found a working one

Craig Sanders

unreachable doesn't mean down. could be a firewall blocking it or a routing table problem or lots of other things

terdon

Yes, this was also being done via a php mail() call so there may be other factors involved

I am assuming that mail() will use sendmail or whatever available on the system

slm

most of the mail libraries use a number of tactics, they're often configurable too

with the perl ones they look locally first but can be configured to reach out to find mail servers too

Braiam

and then nautilus will have the close button in the upper right corner "no matter what"... just what are devs thinking nowadays?

terdon

11:45 PM

Q: Secure Personal Wiki

I would like to have a place to store my deepest, darkest thoughts, and would like it to be remotely accessible in a wiki format. I use Clipperz.com for my passwords, and so far, Wagn looks like the most sophisticated and easy to use wiki out there. Still, the latest news about Prism has lead m...

> Does anyone have any ideas for how I could best achieve security for what I am making into my personal journal?

Craig Sanders

@Braiam pay no attention to gnome - they've been on bad crack for years

terdon

Umm, yes, don't use an online wiki for your journal!

@CraigSanders what WM or DE do you use?

Braiam

@terdon that is what I want to clarify before going into god-slaying-machine mode...

Craig Sanders

xfce

Braiam

I may use gnome until 3.8... if it degrades more I would test anything else that is friendly to my workflow...

Craig Sanders

11:51 PM

i used to use gnome2. tried gnome3 for about 6 months and hated it. switched to xfce.

now i'm getting really sick and tired and angry about being caught in the cross-fire of the ubuntu/redhat corporate war

terdon

Why?

Craig Sanders

they're both fragmenting linux in their attempts to be the dominant linux vendor

terdon

Ah, yes

Don't pay too much attention to that side of things

I thought RHEL was doing fine on servers

Craig Sanders

unity + upstart on one side, gnome + systemd on the other

terdon

ah, that one again

Craig Sanders

11:53 PM

and deliberate incompatibilities to sabotage each other.

terdon

What? You have servers running gnome or unity?

Craig Sanders

servers, no.

terdon

@CraigSanders Seriously? They've started MS crap?

Craig Sanders

i can't think of any other explanation for the more bone-headed stunts they've both pulled over the last few years.

gnome, for example, goes out of its way to break compatibility with anything not-gnome

terdon

I've been out of it really

Tried gnome3 very briefly, I think it was back when they only allowed one window to be on screen

remember that? You had to switch between open windows and could't have one next to the other

Switched to xfce for a while then MATE finally ended up with Cinnamon which quite cool

Braiam

11:56 PM

I think they are trying to catch up the "touch" interfaces making a mess in the between

terdon

fork of gnome without most of the crap

Craig Sanders

WGAF about touch interfaces? only gnome. nobody else.

terdon

Yes, I never understood this whole thing

Gnome, UNity and Win8 are all a bout touch screens

Craig Sanders

touch interfaces are for tablets, not desktops. and no matter how much they try to convince themselves that tablets are going to completely replace desktops, it's just not ever going to happen

terdon

why do we need the same interface one-size-breaks-all thing?

Craig Sanders

11:58 PM

essentially they're marketing wankers caught up in their own hype and bs

terdon

yup

huh, you guys down under say wankers too? I thought it was only the brits