The Nineteenth Byte

Unrelated String

00:41

I finally quit my all lowercase bullshit. I feel so powerful

Ginger

00:52

@UnrelatedString traitor :(

although to be fair I kinda play fast and loose with "all lowercase"

all lowercase, except for "I", and no periods at the end of sentences

lyxal

@UnrelatedString excellent. Very excellent :p

Your shift key will appreciate this.

Unrelated String

01:14

@Ginger Yeah the thing that pushed me over the edge was realizing just how hard I force it

Going out of my way to lowercase “i”

I feel like depending on tone I’m probably going to slip back into not reliably capitalizing the first letter of each sentence, but forcing myself to do that sometimes feels like it’ll help me feel like I can do that when I get super rambly and want my rambling to be readable

Because sometimes I chat like I’m writing an email lmao

Unrelated String

01:28

And in case you haven't noticed the minor adjustment to the pronouns in my chat bio, I'm playing with a lot of change :P

lyxal

No credit or debit card fr fr no cap?

Unrelated String

~~No, that was last year~~

Simd

01:44

@noodleperson but why am I somehow associated with Spiderman?

noodle person

02:22

@Simd Spiderman's name is Peter Parker, but sometimes his name is Miles Morales, I was just making a stupid joke about Mousetail's comment :)

Ginger

@UnrelatedString I did not notice lol

Unrelated String

lol

Ginger

good for you 👍

Unrelated String

Thank

Still just trying to figure shit out but I decided I'd at least make the leap of something small like that to actually commit to figuring shit out

Ginger

understandable

figuring shit out is important

Unrelated String

02:28

True!

Ginger

still an ongoing process for me :p

Unrelated String

🫂

Bbrk24

If it makes you feel any better, there are aspects of my queerness that I have been figuring out for almost 2 years now

Unrelated String

Wow

Ginger

same actually

Unrelated String

02:35

I guess in my case it's been... exactly nine months so far?

I can't find the exact convo in TST that I'm remembering lmao

But it's been that long since I posted this

in The Sand Trap, Oct 20, 2023 at 6:43, by Unrelated String

the crux of the issue being that i have no idea whether or not “being able to find people attractive” counts as “sexual attraction”

Bbrk24

I have known I'm somewhere on the aromantic spectrum since the latter half of 2022. I still don't know where

Unrelated String

And eventually picking that train of thought apart made me also realize I kind of have a weird relationship with being a man but not in a way that's easy to characterize

@Bbrk24 yeahhhh I've personally been kind of gravitating towards demi intuitively but, like, can't exactly be confident in that without a few requisite experiences :P

Bbrk24

I identified as demiromantic for like... a year? year and a half? before realizing my experiences didn't quite line up with most demi ppl

Unrelated String

mmmm

Bbrk24

I then identified as aroflux for a couple months and now I'm questioning if I'm full on aromantic

Unrelated String

02:41

Are there experiences you thought were romantic attraction that you're starting to think might not have been?

Because I'm the last fucking person who can give you an answer on that

but at least I can relate a bit

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString figuring things out is hard yeah. good luck 🫂

Ginger

🫂

Unrelated String

@hyper-neutrino Thanks!

...That's a new chat bio isn't it

Ginger

WAIT WHAT

Unrelated String

~~It's been how many days since you specifically said you weren't trans~~

congrats 🥳

hyper-neutrino

02:46

hehe it's been like two months since then yeah (insert caird's quote about time cuz it both feels like much shorter and much longer *shrug*)

Unrelated String

real

Ginger

congratulations!!!!!!!!!

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString thanks 🫂

Ginger

if I had a nickel for every friend who came out as transfem this week I would have two nickels

7

(yall don't know the other friend, but she came out literally yesterday lmao)

Unrelated String

That reminds me one of the things I've been trying to figure out and unpack is straight up just "would I be thinking about any of this at all if I wasn't already surrounded by trans people" lmao

@Ginger huge

Bbrk24

02:51

@UnrelatedString See, the reason it's hard is that said experiences were several years ago so I barely remember them well enough to judge

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString yeah honestly i think this is how my whole process started too lol :P

Unrelated String

@Bbrk24 ...I'm disappointed but for you not for me

Bbrk24

But like. If I haven't experienced romantic attraction in like six or so years. That's a sign of something isn't it

Unrelated String

Remembering feelings is a struggle

Bbrk24

In other news I am increasingly sure I've actually been dyslexic this whole time

Unrelated String

02:52

@Bbrk24 And I think on that time scale, like, unless there are seriously different circumstances it's even worth considering that something about you has changed

It's not like it's all innately set in stone

Bbrk24

That's true!

Ginger

@UnrelatedString there is a certain correlation yeah :p

Bbrk24

Especially considering that timespan is nearly a third of my life

Unrelated String

Yeahhhhh'

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString fair enough honestly i still get large amounts of self doubt every day never with any real logical reason so i get that 🫂 all i'll say is that being around trans people won't make you someone you're not :P and it making you realize things about yourself is a good thing

Ginger

02:54

every one of the seven members of the MC mod dev team I'm on/founded is transfem except for one cis guy

coincidence? I genuinely don't know, especially since one of them identified as a cis guy when she joined

Unrelated String

@Bbrk24 Ooh wow. I've heard a lot of people having weird experiences discovering dyscalculia late in life (from hanging around late diagnosed ADHD spaces lol) and it definitely sounds like it can be a revelation

@Ginger ~~but for how long~~

Ginger

?

Unrelated String

That was probably in bad taste

Bbrk24

Unrelated String

Just implying that it's possible that the single cis guy might have some revelations at some point down the road :P

noodle person

02:56

@Ginger literally me

hyper-neutrino

@UnrelatedString lmaoo i have done the exact opposite myself :P which is pretty funny

Unrelated String

Yeah that was definitely in bad taste lmao

Bbrk24

Next time a cis guy joins, the current token cis will realize her true identity /j

Ginger

@UnrelatedString trust me, he's already gotten a lot of that from us :p

Unrelated String

:p

Ginger

02:56

he is very sure

Unrelated String

nice

Bbrk24

fair enough

Ginger

his job is uh. basically moral support

and moderation of our community spaces, in theory, except we don't really have anyone to moderate

@noodleperson LMAO

Bbrk24

@noodleperson speaking of, why did you change your username?

noodle person

idk I sorta want to make my profile at least a little more anonymous / just connected to the content and not like me

Unrelated String

02:59

It is funny, like, in the first place I kind of assumed I was sort of agender "cis by default"

Simd

@noodleperson that part was good. But how did I come into it in the first place?

Unrelated String

And then eventually I managed to cherry pick enough extremely specific feelings and hypotheticals to identify some active attachment to my AGAB

noodle person

@Simd Probably Mousetail knows somebody named Peter

Unrelated String

But then I realized how specific those were and started also trying to actually pick those apart so that was sort of the window into actually actively questioning anything

noodle person

@noodleperson Not that I'm trying to distance myself from this community or anything. Just my actual profile on the site

Since it's very public, I have like 250 posts here

Not that TNB isn't public but it has less eyes I think, and I'm not that active in sechat anyway

Unrelated String

03:07

Yeah that makes sense

@hyper-neutrino If nothing else this specific road of inquiry has made me confront a lot of my overthinking/anxiety 🙃

Don't be too hard on yourself over the doubt because, like, looking at it from outside it's only natural that you'd be having a lot of that

The self concept you're changing or recontextualizing has a loooooot of momentum regardless of what internal experiences underly it--it's its own experience too

Just remind yourself you've thought that whole bit through already

Ginger

very very true

and well said

hyper-neutrino

🫂 yeah. thanks :3 that is very true. getting rid of the self doubt seems unlikely so the next best thing i can do is deal with it :P

@UnrelatedString that's good to hear \o/

Rydwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString The code golf pipeline is real it seems

Ginger

surely it's a coincidence

Unrelated String

Surely

@hyper-neutrino Thanks <3

Rydwolf Programs

03:18

Luckily I have the full might of the US military keeping me a cis male 😎

Unrelated String

Epic 🕶️🕶️🕶️🕶️

Rydwolf Programs

(*realizes I still have my pride pfp halfway through july*)

My stance on my gender is "if I could pick at birth I'd probably be a girl or nonbinary since it makes more sense with my personality and I'm friends with mostly women and enbies, but I'm neutral enough on my gender I'm fine with being male and I'll lean into it a bit since it's been ingrained into me to feel a bit successful for doing so"

there should be a word for that

Ginger

I started reading that sentence expecting something short and overflowed my mental buffer 15 words in

Unrelated String

Yeah no that makes sense

Rydwolf Programs

i'm sorta like if a man and a woman had a child yk

Unrelated String

03:24

whoa

hyper-neutrino

damn

Ginger

damn

Rydwolf Programs

If my plans for my life were a bit different I'd really like to play around a bit with my gender but since I plan on going into politics (with military as a stepping stone), I just don't really see it being worth it. I'd try things out on the internet, but I feel like that would just give me a taste of what I can't have :p

Unrelated String

Yeah that mirrors a lot of what I've been thinking myself in and out of TBH

Rydwolf Programs

So I guess I'll go back to felling trees and fighting bears 😞

Unrelated String

03:28

Been a struggle to disentangle my actual self from "real world consequences" generally speaking

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms I mean. trying it out on the internet is better than never doing anything, I think :p

mobile chat never ceases to astound and amaze

Rydwolf Programs

altho honestly gender matters so little here that the only real thing it would mean would be the e:not-e ratio of the pronouns people use for me lol

Unrelated String

LMAO

Rydwolf Programs

(also r.e. the caps vs. all lowercase thing, I'm kinda in an internal battle about that too. I've always been grammar gang, but the more lowercasers there are, the more it makes me feel...pretentious? shouty?)

Unrelated String

Yeah that's kind of what got me originally

Ginger

03:30

I'll have you know that I value grammar

Rydwolf Programs

maybe I'll take the ginger compromise(TM) and do lowercase with capitalized I

hyper-neutrino

that is what i did for the longest time lol

Ginger

I always try to make sure that my messages are grammatically correct, I just .strip(".")

Unrelated String

@RydwolfPrograms This kind of hypothetical is actually the kind of thing I've been trying to teach myself not to trust, because I can't disentangle anything enough to get to the point

Ginger

@Ginger file.garden/ZkNlfx6KLQ_d2Rp0/screen-20240720-232853~2.mp4

ooh, triple-zero message id

Rydwolf Programs

03:36

But yeah I'm happy for all of y'all discovering things about yourselves, and glad this place can be a space where we're all comfortable and stuff :p

I sometimes wonder if in twenty years we'll still occasionally pop in here and talk about our middle-aged/old people stuff lol

hyper-neutrino

depends on if SE still exists in 20 years /hj

Rydwolf Programs

If I'm ever president, y'all're getting a white house dinner, dw :p

hyper-neutrino

if you run make sure to tell me i might still have my citizenship at that point and be able to vote for you /gen

Bbrk24

I mean. I know Rydwolf’s name :P

it’s in a couple places on his GH at least

Unrelated String

Load-bearing "at least"

emanresu A

03:46

Late to the conversation due to chess karaoke night but I'm still figuring out this whole "gender" thing. switched to "they/them" at least on the internet a few months ago

Bbrk24

@RydwolfPrograms If the letter E is what bothers you… a) I’m sorry you have to speak(/read) a language where that’s the most common letter, b) there’s “hy/hym” which is pronounced the exact same as he/him but spelled differently

Unrelated String

Was the chess karaoke like chess boxing style where the activities are integrated or was it just karaoke and chess

Both sound like a vibe

What kinds of things did people end up singing?

emanresu A

Never gonna give you up

Unrelated String

Sweet

emanresu A

(cgcc-gaming discord if you want to join, still going)

Unrelated String

03:51

I think I need to sleep 💀

But thanks for the heads up

I always forget that server exists

Simd

How could I improve my challenge? It only has one upvote

Unrelated String

Like for example I can pretty confidently say that all else being equal I'm glad to be AMAB, but that's very much caught up in the "all else being equal"--I'm glad I've never been put through the shit that AFABs tend to get put through, both in general and in terms of attitudes towards neurodivergence, and I feel like I'd probably always have had issues with openness/vulnerability (note my sister who literally refuses to see a therapist) so having irony-poisoned male friendships for at least some companionship and community is ultimately a net plus... except if I think about it in terms of …

Bbrk24

@UnrelatedString OTOH, in retrospect, I think I’ve been genderfluid or nonbinary my whole life and I never noticed

Unrelated String

That does tend to be how that part of things goes :P

Bbrk24

Like I can recall signs from when I was in like first grade

Unrelated String

03:57

Wow

I've been trying and failing to recall anything from first grade 🙃

Bbrk24

I don’t remember much from before high school, but there were a few things from when I was a very young child that I never told anyone and apparently carved in stone in my long-term memory

Unrelated String

Interesting

Bbrk24

just ponderings in my room by myself

Unrelated String

I have a relatively clear big-picture memory of middle school if nothing else but very little episodic even through most of high school

And very very little memory of anything that happened at home

hyper-neutrino

i have few memories from outside of a couple of years ago and all of them (including the more recent ones outside of like a year ago) don't feel like my own memories :p if that makes sense

Unrelated String

04:01

Interesting

Bbrk24

I have one memory of me actively wondering about gender, including volunteering to be the first trans person (though I obviously didn’t use that word) for science

and one that’s on the border of recurring dream and active worldbuilding

Unrelated String

I feel like mine are mine but a lot of that is because I'm only dredging them up for self-reflection in the first place

@Bbrk24 Interesting!

Bbrk24

In retrospect that “for science” was kinda just an excuse but I did wonder a lot about how that worked because I assumed it was unheard of

Rydwolf Programs

@Bbrk24 What?? I'd never take a part of my identity, change an e to a y, and pronounce it exactly the same

8

Bbrk24

in my head I’ve been pronouncing “rydwolf” like “rid”, not “red”

Rydwolf Programs

04:03

I do that by accident too yeah lol

Unrelated String

I can't stop myself from doing that either

Ginger

@lyxal do you have a link to your fridge sound

for science

Bbrk24

@Bbrk24 I have not worked on the latter in over a decade but I still remember it

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger I can dig one up, just a sec

Ginger

thanks :p

oh, and the SEchat ping

on mober so can't get it myself

Bbrk24

04:05

when/how did “mober” start anyways

Rydwolf Programs

github.com/Radvylf/userscripts/blob/main/resources/…

(from gist.github.com/Radvylf/285c1159032440d21745e9e852cad91e)

Bbrk24

@RydwolfPrograms Clicking that link in Firefox opened the Github app, which in turn opened Firefox again so I could see the file

And here’s the kicker: the file doesn’t even load properly

Rydwolf Programs

I'm kinda surprised that didn't result in an infinite loop lol

The SE chat ping is just cdn-chat.sstatic.net/chat/se.mp3

(impossible challenge: play that sound intentionally without instinctively tabbing over to TNB)

Unrelated String

@Bbrk24 Trying to think back to stuff like that for myself, I've always felt that I'd enjoy being able to, like, shape-shift or have multiple bodies, but I already had too much weird ego fuel tied up in "being a boy" to have any thoughts about anything that didn't ultimately just consist of some layer of indirection around my true/original self

Bbrk24

huh

Unrelated String

04:09

Or more to the point I was soaked in enough extremely specific extremely bizarre misogyny to not be willing to entertain there being any value in "life as a woman", if that makes any sense

Bbrk24

yes it does

It’s late here so I’m going to bed but if I remember to hop back in here (or if you ping me on Discord) I will gladly continue this conversation tomorrow

Unrelated String

Outside of everything about women's roles in relationships or society or whatever, and some specific ways I saw my mother get torn apart and dehumanized for having a period, I even just got to hear my female classmates get collectively scapegoated as everything wrong with the school system and why it isn't better suited for me

@Bbrk24 Sounds like a plan... it's a bit late for me too :P

@hyper-neutrino But yeah I basically only got this far because I specifically realized I need to dissect the reasons like that that I felt like it didn't make sense to honestly consider lmao

Rydwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString That is a...shocking amount of sexism

The fact that there's a Palestine, Texas sometimes leads to some interesting ambiguities

E.g., I can technically say that my great-grandfather lives in Palestine :p

I sometimes wonder how these bizarre shared place names (which TX has a lot of) occur

Okay so apparently Palestine, Texas is named after Palestine, Illinois which is named after Palestine-Palestine

So it's not even a stolen place name, some preacher dude stole the name from a city that had already stolen its name from a place

So much creativity :p

lyxal

05:12

from experts-exchange

it's ironic that the site SE was supposed to improve upon can now paint itself as being the better community

Neil

06:20

@Bbrk24 stupid Yoda, it's fewer, not less

@lyxal I preferred their old url, expert sex change

Redz

06:53

@Neil didn't they change it because of that lol

att

08:01

@hyper-neutrino happy cracking

Sandbox Posts

08:56

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Decide if a string is substring of Fizzbuzz 12Fizz4BuzzFizz78FizzBuzz11Fizz1314FizzBuzz.... Notice that it doesn't necessary cover whole tokens, e.g. zz78Fi is a substring. code-golf Notes With or without separator?

Ginger

12:58

@lyxal lmao

lyxal

how the mighty have fallen

Unrelated String

15:24

@RydwolfPrograms I see 😬

I will confess to being surprised you're surprised
Not because you're from Texas, but because that's, like, barely scratching the surface of the weird idiosyncratic parts

Simd

16:24

Any suggestions for improvement of codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/274288/compute-dickman ?

Rydwolf Programs

18:26

IT HAPP{ENED

BIDEN DROPPED OUIT\

Bbrk24

WHAT

Rydwolf Programs

He's endorsed Harris

And looks like ~30 minutes ago is when he stepped down

Still scrolling through the NYT feed, it's a mess

Yep, 30-40 minutes ago

This makes things...interesting

Unrelated String

oh boy

@RydwolfPrograms Did he actually endorse her as a candidate, or was it just "yeah great being running mates with you"?

Rydwolf Programs

He endorsed her

Unrelated String

Oh boy

Rydwolf Programs

18:35

Looks like lots of other dem officials and donors are throwing in their support for her

Unrelated String

Oh boy

Rydwolf Programs

They've got a lot of time to rally behind her though. She's maybe not the most electable of the options, but she's been doing pretty well in speeches and campaign events recently from what I've heard

Unrelated String

And I guess another optimistic way to look at it is, at this point it's not like people wouldn't have already been seriously weighing the possibility that she'd end up President after Biden's reelection anyways

Plus her running mate might also end up having good optics

Rydwolf Programs

@UnrelatedString Honestly the most blatantly sexist thing I think I've heard before was just "I don't think a woman could hold a high political position" [said by our 8th grade class president I was the former speechwriter for], which is pretty mild

Unrelated String

Huh

Great way to segue back into that conversation LMAO

Rydwolf Programs

18:42

@UnrelatedString I've heard things about a ticket with Gretchen Whitmer, but I feel like for electability reasons they'd probably end up with a straightwhitecisoldman

Unrelated String

Yeah I don't think they'd have anything to gain from not taking a risk-mitigation angle

Rydwolf Programs

Whenever I post political stuff on my instagram stories, I take a picture of my cat, then caption it "Poppy says: [political opinion]"

Unrelated String

pffff

Rydwolf Programs

5

Poppy's such a pundit

Unrelated String

Ahahaha

Rydwolf Programs

18:47

I got her a 7 ft. tall cat tree, so she's been enjoying that

Unrelated String

Niiiice

att

good news

Ginger

19:15

@RydwolfPrograms this will have a sizable effect on the trout economy

harris v trump...

Rydwolf Programs

Given the holding of Relentless, Inc. v. Department of Commerce it likely will not

Ginger

heh

Unrelated String

@RydwolfPrograms Come to think of it, I think I may have overrepresented how blatant it tended to be. Like after the divorce I got to hear a handful of really out of pocket takes, but for the most part it was all subtler and/or less generalized, the kind of way that you can tell what's going on if you read into it but it doesn't jump out

Rest of my family had no idea how bad he was about it until I told them

emanresu A

19:49

@RydwolfPrograms Based on my limited analysis (github org members) Vyxal is 9.7% trans

(4/41)

Unrelated String

Like the classmates thing was also caught up in my autism diagnosis (thanks to the old "extreme male brain" theory), and I'm kind of reading the "scapegoating" into it when it was really more like it was presented like we had "neutral" differences in educational needs and I was losing out because theirs were somehow being prioritized--the strongest impression I got out of that was just that there was some kind of fundamental rift that didn't necessarily involve value judgments
Which is still pretty sexist but not like openly hateful

While the stuff with my mom was just that he was belittling/controlling her with whatever ammunition he could think of

And my biggest takeaway from that was that it wasn't safe for me to express and act on my feelings regardless of gender 🙃

RubenVerg

21:12

@emanresuA less than I expected

how'd you tell whether people are trans?

oh maybe you just know everybody in the org

Unrelated String

...i'm surprised the ratio's that low overall and surprised the org's that large

RubenVerg

@emanresuA less than 41, some of them are bots, some are alts

I think the number is closer to 37

@UnrelatedString I've found vyxal org has a tendency to add in whoever makes a few prs

I think I made like three before I was invited

@emanresuA yeah looking through the org there are some people I never heard about and surely you know many more people than me but do you actually know everybody to know whether they're trans or not?

hyper-neutrino

i've made like one pr probably /hj

emanresu A

21:59

@RubenVerg I know you, hyper, sporeball and gingerish are

And assumed everyone else isn't, don't know though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ginger

> gingerish

emanresu A

You've described yourself as "transfemish" before

And yeah you're right there's five bots/alts

Ginger

oh yeah right I have :p

att

@UnrelatedString 🫂

Unrelated String

<3

I've been unpacking that for a while now at least

But thanks

RubenVerg

22:22

@emanresuA ah, I assumed you conducted investigations(:

Ginger

@Ginger which. might be hedging from an internalized fear of committing fully to an identity, but whatever

lyxal

Actually hits different now

Ginger

doesn't it

Unrelated String

22:40

@Ginger I definitely feel you on that one 🙃

emanresu A

23:09

@emanresuA We're currently covering [-]<[->+>+<<]>>[-<<+>>]<

(copy algorithm)

Ginger

@emanresuA does this include Vyxal Bot Apps Edition

the. what area

lyxal

?p

Ginger

- where is An �p
- why is it in Vietnam
- what does this have to do with Trump

emanresu A

@Ginger Don't think so? I'm pretty sure that's not an org member

Non-people are vyxal-bot-old, cgcc-user, vyxal-cookie, not-thonnu, not-lyxal

Ginger

ah

makes sense, apps aren't quite people

lyxal

23:21

@Ginger a) obviously, it's [redacted] this is like basic stuff how don't you know this, b) you thought America fully left didn't you?, c) last time he went there he [redacted], read the briefing notes on it

Ginger

no matter how much they try to claim otherwise

@lyxal I hate it when my Nintendo Wii (2008) reveals a vast global conspiracy to me, always ruins my Sunday

lyxal

It is what it is

Ginger

news channel music goes hard tho

lyxal

Wanna know what else goes hard?