The Nineteenth Byte

00:16

@RydwolfPrograms Is this valid to claim your bounty? esolangs.org/wiki/Trianguish#Computational_class

8

unfortunately a full construction is a) so large and b) so slow that I haven't been able to build a full program, but there's a working demonstration of the only non-obvious piece, everything else is straightforward

also I made a few changes to my local copy of the Trianguish interpreter in order to make it a bit more usable when working with larger programs: nethack4.org/pastebin/…; I don't know whether you'd be interested in them or not

Ginger

...wow

ais523 - high effort answers

also that link is broken, I meant nethack4.org/pastebin/… (for the improvements patch)

Unrelated String

00:42

@Neil ooh thanks, perfect

luckily the organizers allowed one of my teammates' roommates to run a mouse in for me :P

emanresu A

01:44

Posting this, any final feedback?

ais523 - high effort answers

I'm not sure if it's so interesting for the answerers, the theoretically optimal strategy is probably either "brute-force digits of pi until you find a particularly compressible string" or just calculating pi from the start

and the former seems incredibly tedious, it's basically the codegolf equivalent of bitcoin mining

but those aren't validity / improvement complaints, more an issue with the concept

lyxal

02:01

> You may not use built-ins that calculate π or its digits

how far does that extend?

ais523 - high effort answers

I think at least one language has a builtin for 2π

which seems potentially quite usable in a problem like this, so it would be good to know whether or not it's allowed

lyxal

but even in terms of getting pi through something like algebraic built-ins

is cos^-1(-1) considered a built-in that calculates pi?

and then is something that calculates n digits of any number allowed? It's not explicitly calculating pi's digits (because i imagine the "no calculating digits" is to stop answers like 100ɾ∆i where ∆i gets the nth digit of pi)

emanresu A

True... Maybe I'll just remove that rule entirely then

lyxal

Make a trivial answers cw

that's typically what happens when there's an obvious built-in a lot of languages will have

so people can use answers that just use a constant and or direct function

@emanresuA strictly a string, or can it be a list of digits/list of chars?

Unrelated String

i would assume a priori that the format is flexible

ais523 - high effort answers

02:11

assuming that pi is random, statistically the most-compressible 100-digit substring of the first 10^14 digits of pi probably compresses to 86 or 87 bytes

good luck finding it, though :-D

err, not bytes, decimal digits

so about 36 bytes

lyxal

compressed using what method though?

ais523 - high effort answers

any, assuming that the compression method doesn't waste encodings

even if the compression method isn't random, we're assuming that pi is, so the probability of hitting an particularly compressible sequence doesn't depend on which sequences it is that are particularly compressible

(in practice, most compression methods do waste encodings on things like headers and checksums. but generally have variants which don't)

lyxal

base255 number compression seems to consistently get it down to 42 bytes (not including delimiters, assuming sbcs)

any substring that is

ais523 - high effort answers

yes, that'll happen 255/256 of the time

err, 254/255

get a leading zero after compression and you save a byte

get two leading zeros and you save two bytes, and so on

this is unless the length of the output is implied by the length of the input, in which case obviously it doesn't get any shorter because the particularly-compressed encodings are all being used for shorter strings

now I'm wondering if this is technically a compression algorithm, we call it "compression" but it is different in nature from something like gzip

lyxal

blind vyncoding only gets it down to 88.625 bytes :sob:

or thereabouts

thanks range coding very cool

emanresu A

02:22

In general vyncode performs worse on inputs containing anything precompressed

lyxal

oh this is on the raw number

ais523 - high effort answers

vyncode should ideally detect compressed strings and send them literally, rather than attempting to vyncode them

and other compressed constants

emanresu A

That'd be smart but technically annoying, since you'd need to port the Vyxal lexer into Scala

lyxal

I'm sure the v3 lexer could be repurposed for v2 syntax

New Posts

0

Q: Print 100 digits of π

Your challenge is to print any 100 consecutive digits of π. You must give the index at which that subsequence appears. The 3 is not included. For example, you could print any of the following: 1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679 (i...

emanresu A

02:28

Alright there you go

lyxal

6 bytes? Really?

smh

@NewPosts would calculating pi through cos^-1(-1) then eval to 100 decimals be considered trivial?

emanresu A

I'd say no - I was more intending to discourage simply print(pi) or similar

lyxal

03:33

oh that's fun

so github's student developer pack has a mailgun pack

which gives you like 20k emails for automated email sending

and to log into the account, I need to use my users.noreply.github.com email

which I had to go to my github profile settings to find

Neil

07:21

@emanresuA vscode is a web page wrapped in an app?

emanresu A

07:52

Yes but it's a fairly restricted webpage

@NewPosts Wow this really did better in the sandbox than on main

TwilightSparkle

Is there any simple way in GolfScript to turn a b on the stack into a b [a b]?

like ].~@

lyxal

08:17

@emanresuA shout out to that time I got a +8 sand, +3 main and only got +8 on main after 2 years and after mentioning it here in 2022

Sandbox score does not imply main score :p

TwilightSparkle

How to get rid of the braces of {...} easily in GolfScript?

Is it possible to get a radiation-softened quine along this line? [{.\{,}$1>~1>-1<} {.\{,}$1>~1>-1<}].\{,}$1>~1>-1<`

emanresu A

09:37

Some stuff just do be like that - Sounds great in theory

Another example: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/265561/…, which I kind of want to submit a tarpit answer to to increase activity

New Posts

12:39

0

Q: I irradiate your source code, you irradiate your output

Your task is to write a program \$p\$ which outputs a string \$s\$ with the same length as \$p\$, where \$s \neq p\$. If I remove the \$n\$th byte from your program to get program \$q\$, then either \$q\$ outputs \$s\$ with the \$n\$th byte removed, or it does something else. Your score is the nu...

radiation-hardening

Simd

15:06

Have we had any challenges for code that still works if you change one or more characters in it?

Ginger

@Simd ohoho yes we have

radiation-hardening

Simd

Thanks!

@Ginger I don't understand. codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/208918/116117

If I delete a character it doesn't compile

Simd

15:23

CMC write code that outputs a number and if any character is deleted from it, outputs a bigger one

Ginger

Python 3, 35 bytes: print(1/len(open(__file__).read()))

normally prints 0.02857142857142857; if any character is removed, it will either print a higher number or crash with an error message containing the number 1

I'm actually pretty sure there's no way to remove a character without causing some kind of error

Simd

Cool! Python is difficult to stop crashing if you remove a character

Simd

16:19

Can you make any python code that isn't a number that runs no matter which character you delete?

Ginger

sure! Python 3, 20 bytes:

Simd

Good point!

New Posts

0

Q: Tips for radiation hardening

The aim of this post is to gather all the tips that can often be applied to radiation-hardening challenges. Please only post answers which can apply to a large number of languages, and one tip per answer.

tips radiation-hardening

Simd

I think I am going to pose challenge where the code has to keep on outputting a larger number each time you delete a character

noodle man

17:25

@Simd as in, the program with the nth char removed will output a smaller number than the program with the n+1th char removed?

@Simd Python 2, 7 bytes: print.1

Ginger

@noodleman I think as in the outputted number must increase with the number of characters removed

I like your idea better tho, it seems more feasible

noodle man

yes

i might sandbox that rn actually

Ginger

~~someday I'll get back to challenge-writing~~

been too busy making compilers and chatbots :p

noodle man

@Ginger its crazy you're like one of the most active community members yet you post like once every four months

Ginger

well, "community" means quite a few things :b

I'm one of the most active chat users, but on the sites I don't do much

my interest in code golf has waned, but I hang around chat because there are lots of interesting and smart people there that I enjoy talking to

shame talking in chat doesn't get you rep, otherwise I'd have quite a bit of it d:

and even if I don't directly golf much anymore, I still do related things like work on tooling for Vyxal Corp.

Sandbox Posts

17:43

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Output greater than without the previous character code-golf radiation-hardening For each character in your program, the program with that character removed must produce a number smaller than the program with the next character removed. Your base program isn't required to do anything. An example ...

Ginger

I find more fulfillment in helping out the community than in actually golfing, so that's what I do

noodle man

fair

Simd

@noodleman yes

noodle man

@Simd oh, i thought you meant something else, i just sandboxed that challenge idea...

Ginger

huh, that's not how I read that

Simd

17:45

link please?

Ginger

sorry for misinforming you q:

noodle man

@SandboxPosts .

but you can take it over if you want

Simd

@noodleman I like yours too!

mine has a flaw sadly.... 1/1000000000 gets bigger each time you remove a 0

noodle man

is that what you were intending? or was your challenge something else?

Simd

it was something else but my idea was worse

noodle man

17:46

okay

Simd

basic math question. If I want to write E(Y | X) as a sum, I think I should write sum P( Y=y | X = x) but what am I summing over?

is it over just y or is it over x and y?

you can see I am confused :)

the answer is just over y

Ginger

@Simd remove the 1/ then? :p

noodle man

@Ginger but the it'll get smaller each time..

Simd

@Ginger :)

Ginger

I kinda want to write a challenge that only 2d langs can compete in where the score is the area of the program

and that'd apply to the shape of the code itself, not its bounding box; so a Trilangle program would be scored as if it were a triangle

Simd

18:07

how about this. At step i where i is even your code should have the property that no matter what character you remove the resulting code either crashes/doesn't compile or increase the value of the output.If i is odd it decreases the value of the output

Simd

20:30

Have we had a fastest code challenge for factoring 64 bit numbers?

Rydwolf Programs

21:07

@Ginger Reporting you for identity theft

Ginger

@RydwolfPrograms I put it back when I was done using it tho!

ais523 - high effort answers

22:19

@RydwolfPrograms: if you want to talk about Trianguish, I'm here

ah, but you aren't, looks like I didn't quite get online in time

Adám

22:51

CMC:

So what do we do when we get to base 10? Do we use A, B, C, etc? No: Numbers larger than about 3.6 million are simply illegal.

@Adám Extended Dyalog APL, 13: {⍵⊤⍨⌽1+⍳⌊¯!⍵} Try it online!

Ginger

@ais523-higheffortanswers he'll be back in an hour or so

Dannyu NDos

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factorial_number_system

Rydwolf Programs

23:20

@Adám This is a digraph in Jelly IIRC

@ais523-higheffortanswers Yes. To be honest I didn't expect anyone to actually attempt it xD

Do you have enough answers that I could even award the 2500 rep?

ais523 - high effort answers

tbf this construction probably isn't worth all 2500 – you could just award 500 on my most recent (on this account)

it is fun to watch, though, using builder snakes to reach points to build things, and building secondary constructors to avoid a slowdown

but the secondary constructors are easier to build than I anticipated because you don't have to build the logic that determines whta to build, you can just leave that in its original location and send the instructions along a wire

so it was only about 3 days' worth of work rather than the weeks it looked like it coudl take

@Adám believe it or not this is actually a Jelly builtin. although I needed to add a second builtin to get the output format to match

by the way, I'm pretty sure self-replicating programs do exist in Trianguish, for much the same reason that TC languages generally have quines, but they'd almost certainly be too large to run in the JS interpreter

Transcript for