The Nineteenth Byte

Sandbox Posts

00:05

0

Complement an infinite list. In this challenge, we define the complement of a list of positive integers as all positive integers not included in that list. For example, the complement of the even numbers [2, 4, 6, 8...] is the odd numbers [1, 3, 5, 7...]. Your challenge is to, given a monotonica...

emanresu A

So... I just found that one of my sandboxed questions is an almost-exact duplicate of a question from seven years ago. However, I think my version is better explained and more solidly specified, especially considering that question has a score of 4 and a single answer. Thoughts?

Rydwolf Programs

If you want to replace the old one, you'll need to ask on meta

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: (untitled)

Unrelated String

they're definitely very similar but in terms of actual implementation i wouldn't say completing the equivalence relation is equivalent to identifying the equivalence classes

also, not that it's easy to tell because the older question is written poorly, but it seems to be the case that it permits taking the relation as already guaranteed reflexive and symmetric

in short, at least undelete the sandbox post so there isn't a rep barrier for weighing in on it :P

Unrelated String

01:36

like, if you have the equivalence classes you can get the full relation from cartesian squaring each one, and there's all kinds of ways to go the other way, but neither of those transformations is entirely trivial and depending on the language using them may or may not be the shortest

...though incidentally that does give me an idea for a solution that does go through the classes :P

emanresu A

True... I've undeleted it for now

noodle man

@Simd i think this is just codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/52080/…

thejonymyster

03:07

@Simd "The allowed modifications will leave your program syntactically valid and will not cause it to crash.", this question uses a special form of radiation which only mutates you and does not kill you :P

ATaco

They got that Comic-book radiation

5

thejonymyster

03:36

lmao; cmegac write a program that calculates pi - gaining a digit of accuracy for each byte removed

radiation-improved

ATaco

03:51

33, Removing either byte makes the tens column more accurate.

Rydwolf Programs

04:04

@thejonymyster (Math.PI+"").slice(0,17-"aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa".length)

Wait got it backwards

There

Remove up to all 15 as and each one adds a digit of precision :p

New Posts

05:12

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Q: Write a set as a union of ranges

In this challenge, we define a range similarly to Python's range function: A list of positive integers with equal differences between them. For example, [1, 2, 3] is a range from 1 to 3 with a skip count of 1, because there is a difference of 1 between each item, and [4, 7, 10, 13] is a range fro...

Unrelated String

@NewPosts feels like a dupe but i might be remembering something that's the other way around lmao

oh wait i didn't catch the bit about step yeah it's definitely not a dupe

thejonymyster

@SandboxPosts this q says you can take input as a "stream", im kind of noob and i only have a feint idea of what this means ; is there a meta or somethign i can read up on this? or like, would this allow a language like bf to take infinite input as just assuming theres no EOF (just keep taking input with ,)?

Unrelated String

yeah

thejonymyster

yippee (ty)

Command Master

05:39

@Simd Unary, 789 bytes. Outputs "\0", and with one byte removed outputs "\0\1".

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Listing all words following a pattern Words are composed by joining syllables together. Syllables are composed of a number of vowels with some number of consonants optionally to the left or right. Your code should take in: Consonants Vowels A structure for syllables in a format you define; the f...

Sandbox Posts

07:37

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A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Transpose a multidimensional array Transposition is an operation on 2-dimensional arrays that flips every element across the main diagonal: [[1,2,3], [[1,4], [4,5,6]] -> [2,5], [3,6]] If we call the above array m, then the 2 is the second item of the first row of m, or m[0][1]...

Sandbox Posts

09:37

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Regex Autogolfer NOTE: Just a rough idea so far: programming-challengetest-battery Given two sets of strings, your task is outputting a regex that matches each of the strings in the first set, but none of those in the second set. The goal is making the regex as short as possible. Details The Reg...

Sandbox Posts

10:55

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A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Thoughts on a scoring system that rewards "popular" languages. Divide the byte length of a program by a "popularity" metric e.g. Wikipedia page views in the last 30 days (or esolangs.org) Wikipedia edits questions on Stack Overflow tagged with that language Idea would be to encourage golfing in...

lyxal

11:22

@SandboxPosts A somewhat interesting idea in theory, extremely exploitable if you're using edits/views, and not plausible if you're using SO data

Fatalize

Jelly gets a score of 6000+ and JS a score of 13, I don’t see how that succeeds to "level the playing field between golfing languages and common languages"

If anything that makes the perception of the gap even worse, just in the other direction

lyxal

Because it's scored using esolangs.org edit count, the jelly score can very easily be improved by spamming edits

as can any language's esolangs.org page

also, a page might not be edited that often on a wikipage because it may not need editing for a long time

Fatalize

Also a big problem with language and compiler versions

because there’s usually only one page

lyxal

Any popularity metric can and most likely will be gamed

Fatalize

Imo the most "objective way" to level the scores would be to get a list of "classic" and varied challenges with the best-known golfed solutions for the language, and compute some kind of ratio between the current answer and some average length on the classic challenges

tl;dr score an answer based on how long it is compared to usual answers of the same language

But ultimately I don’t think it solves any real issue

People use Jelly instead of Java not because it gets better scores, but because Java has shitty expressivity

Ginger

11:42

@SandboxPosts this is one of those things that seems like a good idea but isn't, like JS or communism

math scat

JS never seemed like a good idea.

Ginger

it draws you in with promises of... something and then warps your soul like a plastic sheet left in a hot car

lyxal

that also describes async programming in JS

Ginger

ugh, hate that

Sandbox Posts

12:38

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A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Forward foo, reverse bar, but avoid dead code So simple: Provide some code that outputs foo and with the reversed source outputs bar. But before you come up with something like this python: print "foo"#"rab" tnirp you should know the score: You multiply the number of bytes with (1 + dead bytes),...

Simd

What the fastest possible way to compute the dot product of two arrays of float64s on an intel Xeon processor?

Ginger

what are you trying to do???

why do you always ask these crypic, oddly specific questions lmao

4

lyxal

Fast code 🐇🌊

Pretend the 🌊 is like those lines people draw behind characters to indicate fast

I didn't find any more suitable emoji

Also rabbit didn't have a face the other way version

Ginger

12:58

rabbit 27.0.3 (running on Java 17 SE; /opt/rabbit/interpreters/27.0/rabbit-27.0.3-dist.jar) confirmed?!

Simd

@Ginger it's the way my brain works :)

Ginger

why does your brain have an Intel Xeon processor

Simd

I want to do millions of dot products and was wondering what the absolute fastest way to do that is on a modern cpu

I don't really understand simd, fma etx

@Ginger :)

I knew someone would ask which processor so I chose one

Ginger

ARM ftw

Simd

@Ginger I sadly don't have access to one

Ginger

13:01

don't you have two perfectly good ones right there? or did lyxal steal them already

lyxal

Stolen arms! 🤑🤑🤑

Simd

@Ginger he did

Ginger

$tolen arm$

smh lyxal

Simd

Arms trader

Ginger

I know he has a tasty PFP but you should at least ask nicely first

lyxal

13:03

@Ginger I steal as I please

Because it's how I roll

It be like that 😎🤑😎🤑😎

math scat

@SandboxPosts I feel like it's quite hard to classify "dead code" in other paradigms / esoteric-y languages

Simd

The answer might actually be that the limiting factor is memory speed so if you want your dot product to be really fast you need the arrays to be in L1 cache

Which is hard to arrange!

lyxal

@mathscat it's basically impossible to universally define objectively

Rydwolf Programs

13:52

@Simd It's just gonna be SIMD multiplication I'm sure

@lyxal One exists: 💨

🐇💨

Simd

@RydwolfPrograms ah ok. What is fma for?

Rydwolf Programs

FMA?

Also Xeons range from single-core CPUs from like 2002 up to modern ones with dozens of cores at 5 GHz. You're gonna need to pick a more specific CPU :p

AVX512's probably going to be the answer

Simd

@RydwolfPrograms one with dozens of cores :)

@RydwolfPrograms interesting. I know very little about that

Rydwolf Programs

It supports doubles so you'd just load 8 at a time and take their products, then you'd just need to sum them

Looks like the summing would be called horizontal sum

Simd

@RydwolfPrograms en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiply%E2%80%93accumulate_operation

Rydwolf Programs

14:05

Oh true forgot those instructions exist. Not sure AVX is going to have that

Simd

4

A: Improving performance of floating-point dot-product of an array with SIMD

Some of the suggestions were already mentioned in the comments, but I will try to suggest something in addition to that. Most SIMD floating point instructions on Haswell and newer CPUs have reciprocal throughput less than its latency, which means the performance could be improved if multiple inst...

Not that I really understand it

Rydwolf Programs

For someone named Simd you probably should learn more about simd ;p

Simd

:)

I am scared and intrigued by them

Rydwolf Programs

What's scary about nice simple instruction names like PHMINPOSUW

Simd

😁

Rydwolf Programs

14:48

@Simd Millions would take a split second even with no optimization

You're probably prematurely optimizing here

COOOOOOL

A bug in Chrome's dev console let me hit enter twice

So I ran an empty snippet

And it printed window

thejonymyster

15:07

woah

:NewFind:

any idea as to why?

math scat

huh

Rydwolf Programs

@thejonymyster It took a few seconds for initializing the function to work, it was likely the console trying to evaluate the result to preview it, and some sort of optimization running that blocked for a while. And in the meantime I hit enter a second time thinking the keystroke had been missed.

Chrome's console's snippet return value previewing is kinda buggy, I once spent HOURS debugging this hundreds-of-sloc function because it was behaving in this really weird nondeterministic fashion, only to figure out it was the console preview accidentally mutating some state

thejonymyster

15:21

nice

and then also how come it gave you window? i wonder if theres a non buggy way to get it to run that same blank snippet?

Rydwolf Programs

eval("") just gives undefined

thejonymyster

:o

ok yea that makes sense i retract my surprise

Rydwolf Programs

No it's still interesting that running an empty snippet gives window

Since it differs from eval

thejonymyster

i retract my retract..ment? retractal? retraction

Rydwolf Programs

CMQ: On a scale of zero to PHP, how cursed would it be to represent bytestrings in JSON as strings of Unicode with codepoints ranging from 0 to 255?

thejonymyster

15:27

so as a list of chars?

or wait no you said strings of unicode...

so just.... representing bytestrings as strings?

that seems about as normal as it gets :p

Rydwolf Programs

@thejonymyster No like, the bytestring 61 00 20 af 7f ff would be a\x00 ¯\x7fÿ

Where it gets weird is with Unicode

Ginger

ಠ_ಠ

that's like Python but worse

The Empty String Photographer

@RydwolfPrograms zero.five

Rydwolf Programs

E.g., the string å would be represented with UTF-8 as c3 a5, so you'd represent it in this JSON representation as Ã¥

Ginger

...

Rydwolf Programs

15:30

And any Unicode outside the range 00–ff would just be a parse error

Ginger

that's... no

The Empty String Photographer

Ã¥0¡

Ginger

please do not do that

thejonymyster

forgive me for thinking that seems really normal

but isnt that like unambiguous and like, a regular representation of those bytes

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger To clarify the reason I need something like this is that bytestrings can't be represented directly with JSON

One option I've seen is an array of ints but that's a) way bigger b) less readable for anything but non-ASCII c) just as capable of encoding invalid data

thejonymyster

15:32

like how would you normally print those as a string? is there some other method?

Ginger

~~just convert them to hex first~~

Rydwolf Programs

@Ginger I am considering that too

It would be shorter for strings mostly consisting of non-ASCII byte values

Which I don't expect to be super common, but maybe

thejonymyster

well i could blather on but you know where my vote is at this point; feel free to ask on meta and i'll be sure to pop in and follow up

DLosc

So it's basically intentional mojibake

Ginger

mojibug or mojifeature?

thejonymyster

15:37

right i forgot the term but yea

also rydwolf while youre here what on earth did you mean by this sandbox

Rydwolf Programs

You'll be given a code snippet and you have to golf it

Your score is the total number of bytes you golf off a dataset, minus your code length

Ginger

so if I answer it in MGS does that make the output golfedmetagolfscriptmetagolfedscript?

Rydwolf Programs

So if you golf an average of 1 byte of a dataset of 700 Python programs, breaking 25% of them in the process, and your code is 335 bytes, your score is +190

Probably minus some penalty for breaking programs that I haven't devised yet

@Ginger The language you write the answer in doesn't need to match the language(s) your program golfs

thejonymyster

how on earth do you expect that to be possible :P does the name "alan turing" mean anything to you

Ginger

observe

math scat

15:46

@RydwolfPrograms interesting concept

Rydwolf Programs

Well the idea is you might bork some subset of the inputs, but there are certain patterns you can golf 99% of the time and still get a functioning result

thejonymyster

so its like youre writing your own mini ai assistant :-) thats funny

(except that its deterministic)

(i presume)

math scat

@thejonymyster ... which is golfed, too

thejonymyster

see "mini"

that wasnt just a flavor word :P

ok now i understand the challenge and will politely leave it alone as it is leagues above my capabilities

Ginger

Python 3, 53 bytes (excluding import): lambda r:"".join(c for c in r if random.randint(0,5))

I call this one Russian Roulette

math scat

15:51

How about Python, 26 bytes: lambda n:n.replace(" ","")

Ginger

ooh, that's a good one

math scat

you might have to tweak the penalties a lot so that snippets like this don't have an absurdly high score

thejonymyster

thats making me realize it really also depends on how the dataset is

youd be finding common errors of the sites past, and i have a feeling extra space isnt super common... but perhaps i am mistaken

at least, not without changing something else in the code to allow for the space to beremoved lol

Ginger

is the input dataset pre-golfed?

I assume so, if it's sourced from CGCC

math scat

And how are different versions of the same language dealt with?

DLosc

15:58

@thejonymyster For inexperienced golfers it is ;)

2

math scat

If each version is considered a different language, that would exclude a lot of golflangs with ongoing development from the dataset

Rydwolf Programs

16:26

Arc<Mutex<Vec<Arc<Mutex<bool>>>>>

Delicious

thejonymyster

feedback req; is [this sandbox]'s worked out example clear enough, or do I need to write a formal spec?

@RydwolfPrograms this >>>>

Rydwolf Programs

@RydwolfPrograms (if anyone's wondering this is a way to have a thread abort other threads if one fails; once one fails it sets all the bools in the Vec to true, which the other threads see)

I should probably be using Tokio lol

thejonymyster

@thejonymyster good lord i forgot the link

Is this sandbox's worked out example clear enough to go by, or does it need a proper written out spec?

mousetail

I have some random unneeded space in my golfed code quire often, when you have a lot of mandatory spaces it's hard to sometimes see which ones are not actually needed. The rules for when a space is needed are quite complex

thejonymyster

yea it also depends on what language you pick, very different sorts of hurdles

math scat

16:40

I'd love to see a refined version on main!

Rydwolf Programs

if let Err(err) = interrupted!().then_some(()).ok_or(CreateCtrError::Interrupted) || fs::write(format!("/rto/conts/{}/{}/config.json", inst_id, id), oci_config_from_config(&config, inst_id, &id)).map_err(CreateCtrError::WriteConfig) || interrupted!().then_some(()).ok_or(CreateCtrError::Interrupted) {
    if unsafe { libc::umount(cs_root.as_ptr()) } != 0 { panic!() };

    fs::remove_dir(format!("/rto/conts/{}/{}", inst_id, id)).unwrap();

    return Err(err);
}

Not sure whether this is elegant or disgusting

Ginger

what am I looking at here?

Rydwolf Programs

17:14

1. Use `interrupted!()` macro to check if should abort (and convert that to a `Result`)
2. Write a file
3. Do another `interrupted!()` check
4. If any of those returned `Err`s, unmount `cs_root` and delete `/rto/conts/[inst_id]/[id]`

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

compression? code-golf Golfy Fairy Chess Notation + Validation Design an encoding for fairy chess piece movement which encodes all of the following information: Where a piece can move (INCLUDING arbitrary length movement)* Whether those movements are "jumping" or not Whether those movements are "...

Simd

@RydwolfPrograms maybe billions :)

It's also my time-golf :)

I just enjoy getting the last nanosecond off

guest4308

18:17

A guide somewhere said it was alright to bug you guys in here about sandbox proposals, so I have come to collect your opinions on codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/26054/119818 Do y'all think it's better with or without the filter part? that makes it more cool/interesting/useful to me, but does it make it less fun to golf? ie, does it feel more like a dumb requirement added on at the end, or an interesting challenge to optimize?

mousetail

This is the correct place to bug people about sandbox proposal yes

Adám

@hyper-neutrino Can you give chat.stackexchange.com/users/585456/user1418115 access to chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/52405/the-apl-orchard?

math scat

@guest4308 IMO the filter part is redundant, I don't think it offers any new ways to optimize the code, but most answers will do something along the lines of filter(lambda string: banned not in string, lst)

cool challenge idea though

hyper-neutrino

18:45

@Adám added

noodle man

21:07

any ideas on how to close this loophole in my challenge? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/26052/108687

> In the current form 21 will be the optimal solution in all languages allowing implicit output (assuming the empty program does not print a number) –
bsoelch

emanresu A

Change the scoring criteria I guess

Maybe make it based on longest program, since that's harder, and ensure it's near-impossible to create an arbitrarily long program

ATaco

@noodleman Additionally, this rewards smaller programs, whilst longer programs are objectively harder.

Perhaps code-bowling would fix it outright?

noodle man

good idea

okay working on an edit

ATaco

Oh that's basically what Emanresu said lmao

Means that the best "Simple" answer most can do is 987654321

noodle man

should code bowling do longest code in bytes or by character count?

i feel like people could just shove a couple of high byte characters in there

ATaco

21:16

I'd say character because the radiation is on the character level. But maybe both should be byte?

noodle man

i'll go with character

thejonymyster

i feel like u can still get arbitrary length out of it

noodle man

idk i wouldn't be able to answer it myself tbh

thejonymyster

no i mean yea me neither but if it is answerable, i feel like theres something to the effect of like

code"long string"code where the code bits handle themselves as well as the long string

DLosc

@Adám Pip, 28 bytes with a very imperative-programming approach: Ta<Yo*:U#llPUoFbl{Pa//ba%:b}

thejonymyster

21:24

and you just find the location of the disturbance in the long string

so as long as you can write a portion which can handle itself as well as the string, youre cookin

but i digrest

ATaco

@thejonymyster Whilst possible, you'd also have to harden the parts that aren't the long string. Which is substantially harder

thejonymyster

right but you already have to do that for the main challenge

so if the main challenge is possible; it doesnt seem that hard to also add the long string element

especially using regular radiation tactics

but yhea ofc i could be wrong and its inordinately hard to screw with but like

thats my take on it

DLosc

21:40

@thejonymyster It's good that you dig rest. Rest is necessary for all of us. ;)

thejonymyster

<-- sleepiest chatmember tbh

-_- honk shoo

DLosc

That's an interesting onomatopoeia.

thejonymyster

but yea idk i think its very easy to say "this will surely be impossible so i dont need to worry about it" and it has happened to me as well

@DLosc lol i was under the impression it was fairly standard :P

lyxal

in The Sand Trap, 8 hours ago, by lyxal

@user it'll do be is like that sometimes

DLosc

@thejonymyster I think the fake snoring noises are pretty standard, but I've never seen them spelled out (or thought they could be spelled at all)

thejonymyster

21:54

are you more of a snork mimimi?

it was kind of big in the memosphere to do it for a while so this isnt just coming out of nowhere

lyxal

@thejonymyster What do you think this is? A jschlatt video?

DLosc

> I've never seen them

thejonymyster

@lyxal dont tell me theres another crazy js framework going around...

lyxal

@thejonymyster video

user

I've only ever seen/heard zzz. Honk shoo sounds vaguely familiar but I can't remember any specific places I've seen it

thejonymyster

21:58

wow its been a while since my experiences have been non universal

DLosc

Lol

thejonymyster

@lyxal lmao good

user

Either you've been spending too much time in echo chambers or you're the most average person ever lol

2

thejonymyster

i was hoping for more sfx tbh i want his keyboard to be the claka claka claka

DLosc

@user Ah, true, I've seen zzz. Also something like snrx in webcomics.

thejonymyster

21:59

@user im the normal one. You guys are the crazy ones. Crazy? I was cra

lyxal

in The Sand Trap, 2 days ago, by lyxal

Is this what it feels like to be dlosc? :p

user

I think I've even heard people say "gonna catch some Z's" (or maybe I read that in a book?)

lyxal

I didn't that meme in knowledge

thejonymyster

@user absolutely yes heard that plenty

lyxal

I've lost touch with the zoomer population despite being one

user

22:00

ok boomer

lyxal

Shut mouth user

user

I'll shut your ventilator, grandpa :P

5

Also idk about you but I don't type with my lips :P

DLosc

@lyxal In a way, that is what it feels like to be me. I'm frequently out of touch with the millennial population despite being one. ;)

user

Or tongue, I guess. Lips are too big to precisely press keys. With your tongue, you might be able to achieve better precision

lyxal

@user someone clearly hasn't watched bottom gear

user

22:03

Ah, it was a reference

> Man of Scat

mathscat reference??!

Wait this is TNB, this is wayyy off topic lol

lyxal

I say it's fine

user

No one asked

lyxal

You asked

user

Oh damn you got me there

lyxal

😎

user

22:06

😔

thejonymyster

are there any silly challenges about turning a group of emojis into a group of related emojis

like maybe one to toggle between cat and not cat versions of emotes :P

lyxal

23:48

→ 1 message moved to The Nineteenth Joekery

thejonymyster

damn what was that it was deleted so fast

lyxal

post author deleted it

thejonymyster

oh wow

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