The Nineteenth Byte - 2022-12-01

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12:00 AM

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Q: CGAC2022 Day 1: Let's build a chocolate pyramid!

Following last year's event, we're doing Code Golf Advent Calendar 2022! On each day from today (Dec 1) until Christmas (Dec 25), a Christmas-themed challenge will be posted, just like an Advent calendar. It is a free-for-all and just-have-fun-by-participation event, no leaderboards and no prizes...

first upvote :D

2 hours later…

caird coinheringaahing

2:13 AM

Okay, just for future reference: this chat room does allow swearing, so long as it isn't directed towards a specific person. General swearing, fine, but keep it reasonable. Directed swearing (e.g. "f**k Bob Smith, I hate them") is not okay. We've had a few flags raised recently about this, so I thought I'd reiterate our policy

9

Yeah that Bob Smith is such an asshole. Screw that dude.

4

caird coinheringaahing

Smh, what did I just say? :P

:D

2:29 AM

@forest Come on, that was uncalled for :(

@cairdcoinheringaahing You said "f**k Bob Smith, I hate them" isn't okay. It's okay to say anything else (e.g. "f*ck Bob Smith, I h*te them") though, right?

@BobSmith Fuck you.

Hey, that's explicitly disallowed! (but be careful, if someone flags that you'd prolly get kick-muted)

Btw, what does reasonable mean? Should we use asterisks for certain swear words or should we just keep it to like <2 swear words per sentence?

Radvylf Programs

Asterisks don't really make a difference, we're all old enough to know what the original was

I think the point is to just do it in moderation

Fine, I'll use homoglyphs: c => ϲ :P

Radvylf Programs

2:34 AM

Occasionally using profanity's perfectly fine, we're all teens/adults here, but in excess it's annoying and gives the room a somewhat immature appearance

> gives the room a somewhat immature appearance

Radvylf Programs

(my personal opinion on profanity is that it becomes kind of useless if you use it all the time; the point is to add emphasis, so saving it for every once in a while maintains that)

Which it definitely wouldn't have otherwise :P </endjoke> got it

Hmm, profanity inflation

That'd fit what's going on in the world right now

Newly Featured Posts

10

Q: Interstellar Cabbages, Wolves, and Sheep

The Cabbage, Wolf, Goat riddle with a twist! Backstory: There’s an intergalactic river than needs to be crossed! Being a space-ferryman you’ve offered some aliens on your small space ferry that can only carry two entities: you and a passenger. However, you know that because politics, some of thes...

code-golf puzzle-solver

caird coinheringaahing

3:00 AM

@user Given the age limits for engaging with the site, I'd like to hope we're all mature enough to know whne is and isn't appropriate to use profanity

After all, I will happily swear, when I think it's appropriate. I have no issue with profanity, when used appropriately. It's when flags get raised that I feel the need to step in and make it clear what our policy on swearing is

2 hours later…

5:05 AM

@forest No he's not; he's a very respected APLer.

2 hours later…

6:42 AM

CMP: If a challenge asks to output two values X and Y, is it OK to write two functions so that one returns X and the other returns Y?

context

7:20 AM

0

Q: Encoder/Decoder for efficient number storage!

Description Inspired by this question, write a program/function to encode a number and a program (possibly the same as the first) to decode a bitstream in variable-length encoding as follows (taken from that question's answer, slightly modified): Represent the string x using the following encodi...

code-golf encoding

7:40 AM

@Bubbler so like u write two function in one program?

8:19 AM

new lotm btw?

seems like its pip right

@AidenChow two functions in a single submission but pretty much yes

2 hours later…

10:45 AM

Is it possible to create a infinite loop in regex?

11:05 AM

hi

howdy

@JoKing because it's practical for maniacs :)

gtg

unhowdy

it's more that Seed is technically an extension of Befunge, which surely means it should be less practical?

11:32 AM

hello!

12:12 PM

@graffe helllo

12:37 PM

I found a odd fibbonochi variant: f(x)=f(x-2)-f(x-1). It eventually stabilizes in alternating between negative and positive fib numbers

@mousetail no, it's explicitly banned

@mousetail so f(x)+f(x-1)=f(x-2)? yeah, that's just Fibonacci backwards

Oh

That makes sense

1 hour later…

1:59 PM

does anyone have a slick C++ code for todays AoC day 1

i am having trouble taking input

oh right CGAC has begun!

2:17 PM

@mousetail that's interesting.. what are the first few terms?

@RahulVerma I completely forgot AoC! Thank you

Radvylf Programs

@graffe If starting from the standard 0, 1, then 0, 1, -1, 2, -3, 5, -8, ...

nice

looks just the same as the fibonacci series

except for the signs

Radvylf Programs

I've worked with that sequence before, Ash's Fib built-in supported negative numbers

are there any esolangs that support integration?

Radvylf Programs

No

2:26 PM

:(

I wish I could draw a bigger and sadder face

Radvylf Programs

Why would you expect a class of languages typically aiming for simplicity and minimalism to have symbolic math capabilities in the first place lol

@RadvylfPrograms I meant numerical integration :)

because it's cool to do hard things in a golfey way!

sympy needs about $10 millions dollars on it

it's in a sad state

supported by about one person

Radvylf Programs

I mean, if you count golfing languages as esolangs (I don't, but some do), I think Vyxal has it

aha!

Radvylf Programs

Let me guess, you don't actually care about if it's an esolang, you just want someone else to do the work of finding an integration library

2:30 PM

hmmm

bad guess

2:51 PM

@graffe how would that work?

@PyGamer0 I guess <strangesymbol> would have both that it is an integral and the limits coded in somehow

I don't really know though

How though? You'd need to specify the accuracy

I beleive most "numerical" integrators are actually semi-symbolic

@mousetail I am not sure that is right. The trapeziodal method I learned at high school just needs you to be able to evaluate the function

It can be pretty far off though depending on the function

yes

2:57 PM

if you have a rapid sine way that matches your sampling frequency

but do the other methods need anything else apart from function evaluation?

The question is just: At how many points do you evaluate the function?

@mousetail well I guess a clever method can try to guess by adding points until it doesn't seem to make much difference

Maybe

I agree with the maybe

2:59 PM

Now go implement that in vyxal

I can't print "hello world" in vyxal!

@graffe kH

:)

maybe i can implement it in vyxal

that would be cool!

I just saw that general swearing is allowed here

why is no one taking advantage of that??

3:02 PM

@graffe but i Dont know that method :p

Radvylf Programs

@graffe Since it's always been allowed

pick one from here :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/….

Fuck general swearing

indeed :)

coding mini task.... how many integers are there less than 128 with no factors less than 50?

Radvylf Programs

16

Wait no

Wait yeah

"no factors less than 50" here just means "is not less than 50"

You won't get a composite number filling that criteria until 2500

3:09 PM

@graffe it goes over the top of my brain :(

are they all prime numbers?

Radvylf Programs

Yes, that's just the number of primes from 53-128

3:22 PM

@RadvylfPrograms hmm... how about 1024 and 20?

Radvylf Programs

Well, how would you approach it?

@RadvylfPrograms factor all the numbers from 1024 to 21?

:) see edit

Radvylf Programs

@graffe Then do it :p

there are 164 primes in that range

Radvylf Programs

Since 20 ** 2 is less than 400, there are composite numbers meeting that property

3:24 PM

well that's the coding challenge :)

we need a number bigger than 164

@graffe i hope this works

just i dont know how to call the function lol

:)

@RadvylfPrograms the answer is 173 I believe

user image

something here doesn't seem right

but I can't quiiite put my finger on it

Radvylf Programs

3:40 PM

You have it set to unread only

<whisper>the point is that I have 2 unread but the number says 3</whisper>

yeah the new inbox is annoying, i have to manually mark as read

Radvylf Programs

That's always been a thing. Multiple comments/answers are combined into a single notification box.

There are likely two comments on that CGAC thing

there are

but I didn't know that was a thing

also, can someone ping 66.39.27.16 for me?

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan Yeah, it should do what other sites do and get rid of the red number when you open the inbox, while still tracking what's read and unread

PING 66.39.27.16 (66.39.27.16) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 66.39.27.16: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=45.3 ms
64 bytes from 66.39.27.16: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=44.5 ms

Looks good

3:43 PM

hmmmmmmmmmm

my browser isn't getting a response

(that IP address is for thecodelesscode.com)

Radvylf Programs

Maybe their HTTP server is down but the server's still up

;-;

3:59 PM

0

Q: Make the cheapest cut

“Cut” a matrix of integers on the line where the sum of the absolute differences of “severed” neighbors is the least. Example Consider this matrix: 1 2 -4 5 -1 3 2 -2 0 It can be cut in 4 places, here shown by lines lettered A–D: A B ╷ ╷ 1 ╎ 2 ╎ -4 C ---╎----╎---- 5 ...

code-golf matrix

4:11 PM

0

Q: Join Columnar Strings

Write the shortest possible program or function that will join a list of columnar strings. For this challenge, columnar strings are defined as one-character-wide strings spanning across multiple lines. Each character, except for the last one, has a newline character. Some examples, separated by -...

code-golf string

4:23 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Smallest and largest 100-bit square with maximum Hamming weight. In the binary representation of a \$k\$-bit square number \$n^2, k\gt1\$ not all bits can be \$1\$. The maximum number of \$1\$-bits (Hamming weight, \$B\$ for short) is given in A357658, but only up to \$k=95\$ bits. An example of ...

4:35 PM

it is turning out to be quite difficult to give Niko a santa hat

I made a hat that I like but getting Niko to wear it is the hard part

> All presents must be center-aligned due to magical physics issues

makes perfect sense

eh, I'll just switch back to my normal pfp

Radvylf Programs

Please do I keep getting you confused with Niko

done

isn't it beautiful? :p

@Seggan It's actually a technical restriction of the COBOL database santa uses

4:47 PM

he's making a table
he's sorting it twice
SELECT * FROM children WHERE behavior = "nice"
SQL Clause is coming to town
he sees you when you're sleeping
he knows when you're awake
he's copied on /var/spool/mail/root/
so be good for goodness sake

8

@Ginger come to the edge lmao

holy multiple pings batman

oops

in The Edge of Propinquity, 2 mins ago, by Seggan

**Write a song based on "Santa Claus is coming to town" but using SQL**

Verse 1
Santa Claus is coming to town
He's gonna have a database
To store information on us all
That's why he's coming around

Chorus
Oh, Santa Claus is coming to town
He's gonna set up a database
To store information on us all
So we better watch and observe

Verse 2
He'll use SQL to store the data
From all the boys and girls
He'll query it when he's ready
To see who's been naughty or nice

Chorus
Oh, Santa Claus is coming to town

> He'll use the data to make decisions
Deliver gifts to those who deserve
He'll use JOINs and GROUP BYs
To make sure everyone gets what they need

:D

5:35 PM

fun fact: the sum of all positive whole numbers is -1/12

Radvylf Programs

Yeah that's an old one

I saw a pretty cool explanation of where the error in that is once

Has to do with reordering infinite lists of things I think

wacky

6:02 PM

@RadvylfPrograms wait its erroneous?

6:24 PM

@Steffan Do you want to post the Pip LotM thread, since you wrote the nomination? Otherwise I will.

(Wow, most of the nominations have multiple downvotes. Didn't expect that.)

possibly strategic? just speculating

by strategic i mean people downvoting other noms for the one they want to be relatively higher. just a guess, could also be people just don't think the language would make a good LotM

Yeah, probably some of both

6:39 PM

CMM: If a team of people write an answer that satisfies a bounty with no deadline, is the reward divided amongst them or given wholesale to each one?

Probably divided, but you'd have to ask the person awarding the bounty.

caird coinheringaahing

6:56 PM

Yeah, there's no hard and fast rules for deadlineless bounties, it's all up to the offerer

7:23 PM

@DLosc I'll post it

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan Well yeah, you can't really meaningfully add up an infinite amount of numbers (assuming they're diverging) in the first place, and even if you could, adding up a bunch of positive integers wouldn't give you a negative non-integer

-1/12 and similar just result from subtle errors in how infinite sequences are manipulated

@Ginger And even if it wasn't divided, the recipient could divide it themselves

SHould we unfreeze chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/137105/pip ?

@cairdcoinheringaahing ^ Yes please

0

Q: Language of the Month for December 2022: Pip

In accordance with our meta agreement, since one candidate received more votes than the others, we have a new featured language! Throughout December 2022, our Language of the Month will be: Pip What's a Language of the Month? See the meta post for nominations. In short, during December, those w...

discussion language-of-the-month

@Steffan BTW you don't need to give me any bounties for my 1st and 5th Pip answer in December ;)

Unrelated String

7:43 PM

when i saw this on starboard, without line breaks, i thought it was like quoting a caster in some kind of database competition
and was very confused when i got to line 3

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger This actually reads really well, "select star from children where behavior is nice" has the right meter even

You have to pronounce "SQL" as "sequel" though

@UnrelatedString Lol

@RadvylfPrograms As you should :P

Radvylf Programs

I'm in the "squirrel" camp

Which I guess works too in some accents

@RadvylfPrograms Hmm, I do like squirrels... Make a language called SQRL and I'll call it that

Unrelated String

hell yeah

Radvylf Programs

7:49 PM

IIRC I've gotten into a pretty lengthy argument with someone here over whether my pronounciation of squirrel is actually one syllable though lol

Sep 8, 2021 at 17:16, by Browncat Programs

I pronounce SQL "squirrel"

Aug 22, 2021 at 20:34, by Browncat Programs

Just like how I don't actually pronounce "SQL" as "squirrel"

Well which is it? Make up your mind :P

Radvylf Programs

In real life I plan to just say ess-cue-ell but I've never actually had an opportunity to discuss database query languages out loud :p

CMQ: Perfect faucet control?

Ideally with support for both degrees of freedom

@RadvylfPrograms I think ess-cue-ell is a reasonable way of pronouncing "SQL," but "SQL Server" is only ever "Sequel Server." Pronunciation conventions are an odd thing.

Radvylf Programs

Wait is it? I just say "esscuell sever" in my head

IDK if there's an "official" pronunciation, but everyone I've heard pronounce it says Sequel Server ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

7:56 PM

@RadvylfPrograms generally I'm used to and like the type that has one handle that you pull outwards to increase pressure and rotate around for temperature control

same for both showers and sinks, though for sinks i guess it would be upwards for pressure instead

Radvylf Programs

My shower just has one of the dumb ones where you can either have maximally cold water at any flow rate or any other tempature of water at max flow rate

@RadvylfPrograms hey wait a minute

Radvylf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Oh that's a good one

@Ginger Yes we're discussing an xkcd

hahaaa

Radvylf Programs

Wdym

8:00 PM

CMQ (unrelated): Is there a way to extract the seed of a mersenne twister, presuming you have unlimited access to it? (I'm trying to get a seed to make the generator give a specific output)

Radvylf Programs

Yes, there's a lot of research into it

then how do you do it

Radvylf Programs

I think the person (forgot their name) who figured out how to do stuff with Seed has a pretty good blog post on it

Or maybe it was Malbolge

Idk, someone who did something wrote a blog post all about reversing the mersenne twister

if yoy can find it I will be very happy

you're probably thinking of kamila szewczyk

8:03 PM

And/or feersum

got the guide

Radvylf Programs

@hyper-neutrino Yep, 90% sure that's them

I don't recall feersum ever publishing how he did it plus i think kamila beat it anyway

alright, found a tool to do it

thamks

unfortunately the link in her comment seems to be dead

github.com/kspalaiologos/writings/blob/main/p1.md

1 hour later…

9:21 PM

It's okay, they can figure out which control positions produce scalding water via a trial-and-error feedback loop with a barely-perceptible 10-second lag.

Radvylf Programs

Yep

I can't think of many non-non-confusing tap controls that I've encountered

Radvylf Programs

^

^^

caird coinheringaahing

I just heat the water with my mind

Radvylf Programs

9:23 PM

I mean maybe I'd get if he'd said "bad", since there are certainly plenty of poorly designed ones, but "confusing"?

easiest is to just only have one setting, on or off

that certainly isn't confusing

Radvylf Programs

It's worded as if all faucet controls known to date are confusing, and that making a non-confusing one is some sort of difficult task

Having separate hot and cold knobs is not confusing unless the labels get switched

@hyper-neutrino but some people like cold water, others like hot

i used to be of the cold type before i discovered boiling

Radvylf Programs

Yeah but it's still not confusing

9:25 PM

choices are a luxury

@RadvylfPrograms imo the most confusing ones are the automagic ones

youw swipe your hand and nothing happens

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan Do you have a tanked heater + recirculating thing? 'cause in my house it takes sometimes upwards of several minutes for the water to get just warm

@RadvylfPrograms idk what we have, but it takes at most a minute for my water to get hot

usually abt 15 secs

oh wait yeah we have a tanked heater

Radvylf Programs

(I've got maybe the worst setup when it comes to quick hot water though, that being a base model tankless heater, no recirculation, and a giant house with basically no insulation on anything)

ouch

Radvylf Programs

9:28 PM

You can put your hand up to an outlet cover on an exterior wall and feel the outside temperature. If it's windy sometimes you can tell.

yikes

i have to go outside to feel my temp, even the garage is partially insulated

Radvylf Programs

My garage is just plain outside temperature (and it's worse since our dryer is there, since the house builder was too lazy to add a laundry room or hookups for laundry stuff anywhere except the middle of the garage wall, so any warm air which lingers in the garage gets vented outside by it)

@RadvylfPrograms #murica

@cairdcoinheringaahing ~~stop flaunting your mod powers~~

9:44 PM

@Seggan The water from the tap is cold. If you want it hot, get out a pot and heat it yourself. :P

~~Alternately: The water from the tap is hot. If you want it cold, get out a pitcher and refrigerate it yourself.~~

caird coinheringaahing

@Ginger That's not a mod power, that's a bonus I got when I upgraded my mind to be able to send packages with my mind

Back me up here @JoKing :P

i actually got the power to distinguish the sound of pouring hot water vs pouring cold water

you must be joking :p

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Oh neat, I was looking at buying that mod power

do you have mod power loot crates or smth

caird coinheringaahing

9:54 PM

Yeah, we get one per month. The longest serving mods are the most powerful people in the world :P

so is jon skeet a shadow mod or something

jon skeet is the person who provides the mod powers

~~canonically mathcat stole his rep and diamond and then became staff~~

I'm surprised that the "You can do this action again in <x> seconds" text for the bookmark a convo dialog actually removes the s when x is 1

remember, every instance of a correctly pluralized string on SE is another poor soul beat to death by Jeff Atwood with his Giant S

10:58 PM

bah, once again the lack of activity in the sandbox is killing me once again: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/255070/…

most people think this is a transpose-string challenge; it is very much not

It really is

it is intended not to be

the inputs are literal strings that contain newlines

"a\nb" is not "ab"

And? That's just boilerplate, for all the answers

pretty sure it just boils down to transposing after u preprocess the input

And maybe adding formatting

11:02 PM

That just adds one un-fun step of removing newlines

Which shouldn't need to be done by standard I/O rules

Protip: if a challenge can be trivialized, trying to circumvent it with strict I/O won't quite work and it'll just annoy people

I'd say the closest dupe is probably this

11:25 PM

It is pretty disappointing when something looks like an interesting challenge until a more experienced golfer comes along and says, "Oh, that's an overly specific I/O requirement away from a builtin in [insert golfing language]."

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Dec '221

The Nineteenth Byte

The Nineteenth Byte: General discussion for codegolf.stackexc...

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