The Nineteenth Byte

user

00:26

I don't think anyone here can teach F# (although we can all learn together)

Prolog is already LotM

@Bubbler Could you learn us Labyrinth?

Bubbler

00:45

ok

Welcome to this week's Learn You A Lang for Great Good! Today, we'll be learning Labyrinth. During the event, feel free to post CMCs to practice Labyrinth (LMCs), ask questions about the language, and so on.

7

Labyrinth is a 2D language based on the path-following mechanic. All non-instructions (including spaces) form a wall, and the instruction pointer (IP) follows the path formed by the instructions. Conditional branching is done at three-way or four-way junctions, and loops can be formed by creating loops in the path.

All the commands (not many) and detailed semantics can be found in the readme linked above.

LMC: Given n, calculate factorial of n

LMC: No input, print 0 or 1 randomly (both nonzero chance)

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Erasure Poetry

Jo King

01:08

it's been a while since i've done any labyrinth, i'm a little lost ;)

lyxal

guess you'll have to check how many neighbours you have then

caird coinheringaahing

@JoKing Well, it is a pretty maze-like language until you find your way

Bubbler

I have something that doesn't work for 0 lol

Jo King

@Bubbler 18 bytes

it took me a bit to figure out 0 too

checks vanilla factorial question, just as i predicted, past me got it in two less bytes

Bubbler

01:23

:P

Jo King

note: two size 2 loops can beat out a size 3 loop

how do you do detailed debug mode on TIO again? -d doesn't seem to work

@Bubbler 7 bytes

caird coinheringaahing

I feel so sorry for anyone who answered a slightly-complex math question before we had Mathjax, having to use images, or <sup> tags :(

Having updated enough of them to Mathjax, I can imagine the pain of writing them in the first place

emanresu A

01:45

Yeah lol

Radvylf Programs

02:52

There are so, so few resources out there on server-side MathJax rendering

Would be a great topic for my first blog post if I didn't need to figure out how to do server-side MathJax rendering to get my blog to work in the first place

I've, for possibly the first time, come across an error message that literally nobody else has had. I've gotten close a few times, where all that exists is one or two references to it, but this brings up nothing but MathJax's source code where the error is emitted.

MathJax: can't insert css rule '[ SOME CSS ]': Cannot read properties of null (reading 'insertRule')

Damn I'm pretty good at this whole COVID thing, I've infected 2/3 of my other family members now

DLosc

@user Yeah, that's a possible meaning too. I was being a bit jokey with my response, though it was the first meaning that came to my mind.

user

@RadvylfPrograms Meh, just 66%? Gotta get 100% for that A+

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms how's covid treating you btw?

Bubbler

04:06

weirdly shaped factorial, 22 bytes

Jo King

huh, there's no swap command in Labyrinth?

Bubbler

LMC: take n, output nth abacaba sequence but with numbers. n=1 -> [1]; n=3 -> [1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 2, 1] (output format is permissive)

yeah

that's a pain

Jo King

@Bubbler rearranged for 19

New Posts

04:26

0

Q: shortest runtime bytecode question

What is the shortest runtime bytecode you can write for a contract that satisfies both the following: Accepts calldata of length 32 bytes representing one uint256 (no function selector) Returns, as one uint256, the fibonacci number at the index of the input (the sequence can start at either 0 or ...

fibonacci

thejonymyster

@NewPosts hmm it seems like a genuine code golf challenge attempt but they havent quite gotten the format

Bubbler

agreed

emanresu A

06:05

Seems like a dupe

Jo King

06:59

@Bubbler oh no, there's no command to swap the stacks either, rip my solution

Bubbler

lol

apparently way harder than it looks

Jo King

i also keep getting caught out by the n*10+x way of pushing, oof

@Bubbler 40 bytes but i can't be bothered to output it properly

Bubbler

awesome

Jo King

07:39

golfed to 24 bytes

Razetime

08:25

labyrinth golf, exotic

New Posts

09:29

-1

Q: Shortest runtime bytecode in Solidity

What is the shortest runtime bytecode you can write for a contract that satisfies both the following: Accepts calldata of length 32 bytes representing one uint256 (no function selector) Returns, as one uint256, the fibonacci number at the index of the input (the sequence can start at either 0 or ...

fibonacci

emanresu A

Same user presumably

TODO: Create a userscript that reminds me to edit in code-golf if I want to dupe hammer

mousetail

That's a pretty dumb loophole

You could always add a tag, close the question, then remove the tag again if you have at least one gold tag

Jo King

Solidity is a statically-typed curly-braces programming language

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA If you edit the tags to include a tag you have a gold badge in, you can't dupe hammer

Jo King

i wasn't aware "curly braces" could be a defining category

emanresu A

09:53

@cairdcoinheringaahing Huh okay

That's good

PyGamer0

10:38

when will NP/SP come back?

emanresu A

Whenever radvylf / someone finds the time to fix them

SE made a major API change without telling anyone, as usual

mousetail

12:27

Does CCCG still have a nearly 50% HNQ rate? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/232097/…

caird coinheringaahing

Wouldn't surprise me

It's currently 55%

Updated SEDE query

pxeger

12:45

That looks like a very complicated query lol

caird coinheringaahing

It's fairly simple to check how many questions of a site hit HNQ, as it's a timelined event. The complicated bit is doing it across all sites for comparison

py3programmer

looks like lots of questions are being closed these days, i counted and found 5 questions were closed. do people still have an issue with using sandbox or is no one giving feedback over there (even after waiting 2-3 days)

mousetail

Wait bricks is a site

caird coinheringaahing

Lego

thejonymyster

we need a site for real brick fans (concrete)

4

mousetail

12:51

Oh that makes sense

^^

py3programmer

which kind? the building one, or the Lego kits kind? a site for Building bricks is probably going to have few users

mousetail

wooosh

py3programmer

who mostly construct buildings

irl

thejonymyster

@py3programmer lego brick site exists, we need concrete brick site (explanation)

py3programmer

i doubt there would be much users for that

caird coinheringaahing

12:54

@py3programmer the 5 most recent questions are closed: two are duplicates (one of the other), posted by brand new users; 2 are the same CnR, if the C gets closed, so does the R, and also posted by a relatively new user (they're 3rd challenge, and their second closed challenge); and one, posted by a new user, closed as unclear 15hrs ago, and hasn't been edited since

New users not using the Sandbox is a common problem, and we're still aiming to improve that

py3programmer

plus i had a previous challenge posted on sandbox ignored for 3 days

and got critics when released (especially radvylf)

@thejonymyster more people play with legos than build real towers in the world

mousetail

wooosh

py3programmer

so @cairdcoinheringaahing, what should be done about the not-getting-feedback problem

on sandbox

mousetail

I just remind people in chat if I don't get comments

caird coinheringaahing

We've been looking for an answer for that for years

thejonymyster

12:57

@py3programmer how many towers have you seen made of legos

py3programmer

probably 7?

thejonymyster

and how many real towers have you seen?

py3programmer

more than that

but...

thejonymyster

boom. QED. ill take my paycheque

py3programmer

ig im not so sure

lyxal

12:58

@thejonymyster at least 3

probably 4

thejonymyster

jokes aside, lego brick talk reminded me of a code golf type idea i had :P

mousetail

:eyes:

thejonymyster

or not so much "idea i had" so much as "concept i enjoy"

mousetail

Ok we really need reaction emojis on here

thejonymyster

literally agree

but uhh dont get excited its just me

py3programmer

12:59

@cairdcoinheringaahing and @mousetail my first message here was to do that but no one responded to the question (now deleted)

mousetail

@thejonymyster So far many of the concepts you have been excited by have excited me too

thejonymyster

:-)

Radvylf Programs

The typical way to get more attention to a sandbox post is posting a link here

py3programmer

i did that

it failed :(

i bet you know which one im talking about

thejonymyster

yeah sandbox engagement is weird

py3programmer

13:01

👍

mousetail

Needs a review queue

thejonymyster

ooh interesting idea

Radvylf Programs

Possible userscript idea

One that takes new sandbox posts and puts them in a simulated review queue

py3programmer

I guess a review queue is better

but what criterion determines questions to be on it

mousetail

Hopefully one that actually works. The "sandbox viewer" userscript is very broken

thejonymyster

13:02

@mousetail well this one is like, an extension of a type of challenge we might have already seen a few of, sort of like, shaping code to fit some 2d shape i guess? in my brain it reminds me of those like, zachlike puzzles about optimizing your machine to fit in the space left by your other machinery

im not sure what exactly im getting at overall, but the idea of "your code needs to fit in this 2space, with everything else being either no characters or whitespace" appeals to my brain

i guess in the spirit of the inspiration, the shape could be determined by something besides "this is the shape used in the challenge"

mousetail

Would be interesting for sure, depending on the implementation

caird coinheringaahing

@RadvylfPrograms This exists, but is broken :/

thejonymyster

we do have a couple of those where its just one shape, like a square

Radvylf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing Are you talking ablout sandbox viewer or something else?

caird coinheringaahing

Sandbox viewer

@py3programmer I suggest asking at least 3 times, minimum. Sometimes, people just aren't active at the same time

py3programmer

13:04

i dont use sandbox viewer, just scroll down and answer it

caird coinheringaahing

No one uses the Sandbox viewer, it's broken

py3programmer

@cairdcoinheringaahing when i posted there was activity, next post was on 18 minutes after my post

Speaking of scrolling down to answer, shouldn't the answer box be below the question, rather than at the end of the pag? It's hard to remember the question details if they have to keep scrolling up and down

thejonymyster

that is a good point, but it can be mitigated by just copying the question etc

whereas getting people to see how many answers there are before they answer is not easily mitigated

if the answer button is way up top, i know for a fact that a large percent of answerers will not scroll down far enough to see existing answers

there may be some third option though that solves both issues :P

mousetail

@py3programmer I'd like a 2 column layout

question on the left, answers on the right

thejonymyster

ooh

py3programmer

13:14

Exactly

And how about a search bar that searches for answers in a particular language? People will then know whether an answer exists

thejonymyster

@py3programmer inquestion:12345 languagename

py3programmer

where do you type that

thejonymyster

@mousetail maybe as answer chaining, where the previous answer determines the shape of the next somehow? though "output a shape" is too simple KC of a problem for the challenge itself to be interesting

@py3programmer the search bar

py3programmer

oh

thejonymyster

lots of great features there actually

py3programmer

13:18

then how about SE converts it into a button with an input

instead of searches that look like commands

thejonymyster

i mean, why?

py3programmer

just so that people can see if an answer exists

without typing much

thejonymyster

"without typing much" sounds like a you problem :P

especially when its... not much

py3programmer

fine then

just that... its kinda tiring

thejonymyster

seems like userscript territory though maybe

i guess i can see how an "inquestion:thisone" search bar per question could be useful, but then you have like.. two search bars, and one of them can already do that

i could be wrong also :P

py3programmer

13:26

in 2nd search bar all you have to do is type the name, say "Python 3", then it checks if its there. also remove the functionality in the already-existing one

thejonymyster

removing functionality is never the answer :P (sometimes it is but probably not here)

Number Basher

I was looking through lyal

Maybe we can do a puzzle jam some time?

pxeger

I have a userscript that puts inquestion:this in the search bar by default. If I want to search without that I only have to triple-click the search bar, which selects the existing text, and then I can overwrite it as soon as I start typing

Number Basher

14:01

New meta post on its way

0

Q: Event Proposal: (Weekly? Monthly?) Puzzles Jam

I wanted to make a puzzles jam here. Inspired by this and this and a lot more, I think we can start a puzzles jam where people can work in a group of 1-3 on a 3 hour continuous period every weekend to create a puzzle related to a specific topic. We can then vote on the best puzzle, the puzzles wi...

discussion event event-proposal proposal puzzles-jam

(from https://codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/25119/event-proposal-weekly-monthly-puzzles-jam)

mousetail

Why the random bold?

pxeger

?

oh inside the linked question

mousetail

Yea in the first paragraph half the words are bold

lyxal

→ 1 duplicated meta post moved to The Nineteenth Bakery

PyGamer0

wont puzzle jam be too off topic here?

mousetail

14:11

I'm not sure but there is this paragraph "The puzzle must be post-able on this website (e.g. shouldn't be too long, adheres to guidelines, et cetera.)" which implies that these are actually challenges with a objective winning criteria, not puzzles.

thejonymyster

actually apparently some puzzles are allowed here

mousetail

@thejonymyster Depends on your definition of a puzzle. By my definition a puzzle has a single correct answer, thus every puzzle would be off topic.

pxeger

My idea for what puzzles should be allowed here (not what the rules actually are) is basically a cops answer to a cops and robbers question, but without the cops and robbers question needing to exist

4

Radvylf Programs

@mousetail Puzzles are allowed here

Our site even used to have "programming puzzles" as half of the title lol

See programming-puzzle

mousetail

How can a puzzle have a objective scoring criteria?

Radvylf Programs

14:16

The objective scoring criterion is who posts first

mousetail

Makes sense

Radvylf Programs

It's a bit of an exception since they're a bit of a separate category from challenges

Puzzles, challenges, tips

mousetail

Someone should edit the tag wiki

Actually the tag wiki seems entirely inaccurate

Number Basher

14:44

@mousetail Done fix

any more suggestions reply or just @ me, gotta go

thejonymyster

15:18

Ok heres my crazy source layout idea: two players take turns writing programs(1) in the same NxN(2) grid, the game ends when a player can't write a program that fits in the remaining space on their turn, the person who has taken up the least(3) space in the grid wins

problems/notes:
(1) What programs are they writing? is it always the same or does it vary? Do both players use the same language?
(2) How can this grid size be chosen?
(3) Making it be "take up the least space" seems in the spirit of golfiness / making your opponent do a lot by doing little yourself, and prevents cheesing by w…

clarification on (3): short is simple in shape. simple in shape is less interesting in shape :P

py3programmer

15:44

i think it should be the same program being written for fairness

graffe

is there a "it's my pleasure" emoji?

I mean, there should be

thejonymyster

@py3programmer sure, but which program? and theres more than two turns, after both players have written the program, are they writing the same program again? or a different one?

@thejonymyster also: related, related.

py3programmer

in that case... ig then only different programs

thejonymyster

then theres still picking those programs :P no immediately obvious solution to me

it could be useful to tie the program to the current state of the "board"

but that could be too convoluted :P

my initial idea was to just have a list of challenges, maybe to have them be solved in order or like, you could just pick which seemed convenient at the time

but both players pull from the same pool, either both being allowed to do the same challenges or if one player does one, the other cant do that one

lots of possibilities, nothing jumping out as the obvious right choice though]

py3programmer

@graffe use windows + .

guess you get to decide yourself

same way how you need to define the challenge

thejonymyster

15:58

LOL fair

the biggest problem is probably (4) though. otherwise, id just sandbox it

graffe

@py3programmer what does look like? (on linux)

py3programmer

16:11

I have no idea, windows 11 here

Aiden Chow

@graffe it pulls up a menu where u can choose emojis

py3programmer

exactly

but i hv no idea what the shortcut is on linux

graffe

@AidenChow ah ok

py3programmer

@graffe

Aiden Chow

@py3programmer ya true

py3programmer

16:13

you cant update to windows 11

?

graffe

@AidenChow that looks good

Aiden Chow

@graffe what looks good

the menu?

py3programmer

windows 11 is more updated

Aiden Chow

@py3programmer using a school pc rn lmao

py3programmer

its night here

so kinda strange

using school stuff in night

Aiden Chow

16:16

night time for u but early morning for me

u can probably figure out the general area where i live now lol

graffe

@AidenChow yes

which I don't have sadly

on linux

Aiden Chow

@py3programmer wait does windows 11 doesnt have the emoji menu or what?

wdym by more updated

graffe

@AidenChow USA!

Aiden Chow

@graffe yep!

graffe

west coast

probably california :)

Aiden Chow

16:19

@graffe O_O

graffe

San Francisco....?

or LA

Aiden Chow

phew, at least u didnt get that right lol

graffe

:)

Radvylf Programs

1442 North Daniel Avenue, Sacramento, CA, you left your side door unlocked

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms not again!

Aiden Chow

16:21

@RadvylfPrograms is there a reference im missing here or is that truly just a random address

Radvylf Programs

I just made it up lol

But there's a very slight chance that address exists, it is yours, and you did indeed forget to lock the door after feeding your dog (who is named Timothy)

graffe

redfin.com/CA/Sacramento/1442-65th-Ave-95822/home/19374443

just slight typo

caird coinheringaahing

@AidenChow's real address is **** ******* Street, *****, CA

graffe

is that called a bungalow in the US?

Aiden Chow

@cairdcoinheringaahing errrr... no. u got the zip code correct though!

Radvylf Programs

16:25

@graffe Maybe if you're a like, realtor. Never heard a real human use that term though.

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms in the UK it's the standard term

it just means a house with one floor

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms What would you call it then? just a house?

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, and if I need to specify how many floors, a one-story house

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms same!

never heard of bungalow before until right now

Radvylf Programs

Having a separate word for a one-story house seems weird to me, although I guess with the US's suburban planning it makes sense that "house" just refers to a typical 1/2-story single-family residence

graffe

16:27

"Originally Anglo-Indian.
Originally: a one-storied house (or temporary building, e.g. a summer-house), lightly built, usually with a thatched roof. In modern use: any one-storied house. "

I guess it refers to a style of house more common in india?

Radvylf Programs

Indian as in India or Native American?

graffe

Etymology: < Hindustani banglā, understood to be identical with the adjective of same form, meaning ‘belonging to Bengal’.

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms da hell is half a floor

Radvylf Programs

(I'd assume the former, but living in the US, I'm more used to hearing "Indian" to mean the latter)

@AidenChow 1/2 as in one or two lol

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms always Indian...although in this case Bengali it seems

Radvylf Programs

16:29

Yeah no I'm just a typical American living in the crawl space under my neighbor's house

Aiden Chow

@RadvylfPrograms bruh lolol

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms :)

I dream of a crawl space

Radvylf Programs

I crawl up through a drain vent in his house to use his oven when he's not home. I maintain his plumbing in exchange for the right to live there, it's a pretty normal arrangement.

graffe

you should count yourself lucky

The Four Yorkshiremen Sketch

►

@RadvylfPrograms that's for you

py3programmer

16:49

just eating dinner, @AidenChow windows 11 has emoji menus, and im definetly not in USA

finished dinner, i mean

Let’s just say that my location is in another 3-lettered country, but not the USA

mathcat

NYC!

py3programmer

Nope

Hint: begins with U, ends with E

mathcat

what country consists of 3 letters?

py3programmer

UAE!

but I’m a resident

mathcat

ooh

Unrelated String

16:59

@py3programmer windows 10 also has an emoji menu

py3programmer

I know

Never said it didn’t

caird coinheringaahing

WW's election announcement was posted so early on that the pin will auto expire almost 2 weeks before the election starts, so if we re-pin it after it expires, then it'll expire again before the voting even starts :P

py3programmer

What election?

caird coinheringaahing

Check the starboard: CGCC is having a mod election in 12 days

py3programmer

17:17

I haven’t heard of it. Where do I find out about it?

caird coinheringaahing

The official announcement hasn't been posted yet, but codegolf.stackexchange.com/election/4 has the relevant info

The question collection thread will probably be posted at some point in the next few days tbh

py3programmer

Alright…

Radvylf Programs

17:43

@cairdcoinheringaahing "How do I juic advocad?" better make an appearance there :p

I'll vote for anyone who can try for thirtee minut and actually has juic

mathcat

Jus put it in a blende

Wezl'

woul you say that for any other fruit thou

mathcat

good questio

Wezl'

blende apple is not apple juic; blende orang is not orang juic

Radvylf Programs

Belend orang is orang juic with plup tho

I know bc I tryd for thirtee minut

py3programmer

17:48

How’d you know if someone actually made juice or is just… lying?

mathcat

Radvylf won't lie

... right?

Wezl'

@RadvylfPrograms to much pulp to be juic

py3programmer

Who knows

Perhaps he’s going to make a pitch saying he can make juice

Although he doesn’t

( weak )

New Posts

0

Q: IMO Question Six with a difference

In 1988, the International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) featured this as its final question, Question Six: Let \$a\$ and \$b\$ be positive integers such that \$ab + 1\$ divides \$a^2 + b^2\$. Show that \$\frac{a^2 + b^2}{ab + 1}\$ is the square of an integer. (IMO problems) This can be proven us...

code-golf sequence number-theory

Jonathan Allan

Not sandboxed, but I think it's clear (although Question Six itself is obviously fairly confusing). Any suggestions to make it clearer very much welcomed!

DLosc

17:57

@graffe @pxeger I'd call that a "ranch-style house." Like the house I grew up in. I'm guessing that term is only used in America.

Huh, according to Wikipedia, ranch-style is more specific than just "one-story," and bungalow is also more specific than just "one-storey."

WP's example picture for bungalow looks like the house my mom grew up in.

py3programmer

@JonathanAllan the 1988 reference reminds me of 1960’s or 70s or even 80’s IMO with Clifford Cocks

The true inventor of RSA

graffe

@DLosc you do need to be in a country with ranches for that to work

Radvylf Programs

@DLosc Really? From the name I assumed ranch-style houses were like, big houses.

graffe

@DLosc that wiki page doesn't really describe what a UK person means by a bungalow. Specifically, I would not call the house in the main photo a bungalow

Radvylf Programs

I'd consider that a one story house

graffe

18:06

@DLosc this is a bungalow en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungalow#/media/…

Radvylf Programs

It just has a room in the attic

DLosc

@graffe There's a UK usage section farther down which says "It is rare for the term "bungalow" to be used in British English to denote a dwelling having other than a single storey, in which case "chalet bungalow", (see below) is used."

graffe

I have never heard chalet bungalow used!

DLosc

Lol

graffe

" chalet bungalow n. a type of bungalow in the style of a chalet (sense 1a); spec. a bungalow with living space in the loft."

I learned something new

i am guessing americans don't say loft :)

Radvylf Programs

18:08

To me a loft is a really specific thing

Like, an overhang, where there's a floor above you but you can look down from it to see the story below

Unless I'm mixing that up with something else

DLosc

@RadvylfPrograms My childhood home was 900-odd square feet, so unless I'm wrong about calling it a ranch, they don't have to be that big.

Radvylf Programs

I'd also assume ranch houses had a specific style

Like, I wouldn't hear "ranch house" and think of like, a modern house

DLosc

Depends what you mean by "modern." Is 1960s modern?

Radvylf Programs

By modern I mean like, modern-modern. The style, not the time period.

Like, white with big windows, open floor plan, shiny stuff in the kitchen

And I wouldn't consider anything from 60 years ago modern in any context :p

DLosc

> Modernism is both a philosophical and arts movement that arose from broad transformations in Western society during the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Heh

Radvylf Programs

18:14

Okay fine, in any context that isn't art or history or art history

DLosc

Or architecture?

Radvylf Programs

Is it really that old of a style?

DLosc

WP says modern(ist) architecture "emerged in the first half of the 20th century and became dominant after World War II until the 1980s."

They've got a "see also: contemporary architecture"

A lot of things that were labeled "modern" in the 20th century are falling out of fashion, but it's too late to change the label.

graffe

@RadvylfPrograms in the UK a loft is really the same as an attic that typically you can only reach through a hole in the ceiling

Jonathan Allan

So frustrating when you take ages over a question then the first vote is down with no feedback :(

graffe

18:27

I hate that!

graffe

18:54

@JonathanAllan the system shouldn't allow it

Wezl'

well, there are plenty of questions that deserve downvotes, how are you supposed to tell whether they took effort :P

Jonathan Allan

@graffe hehe, but then we ... err as Wezl' says

mathcat

@Wezl' You can just ask the OP.

Radvylf Programs

I think they mean feedback should be required with downvotes

mathcat

@mathcat Remember, lying isn't allowed on the internet.

Jonathan Allan

18:58

@mathcat ^^

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