The Nineteenth Byte

emanresu A

01:33

3924

Q: Proper use cases for Android UserManager.isUserAGoat()?

I was looking at the new APIs introduced in Android 4.2. While looking at the UserManager class I came across the following method: public boolean isUserAGoat() Used to determine whether the user making this call is subject to teleportations. Returns whether the user making this call...

Zion mycelia adamancy

02:09

350

Q: Upgoat or Downgoat?

Given an image of a goat, your program should best try to identify whether the goat is upside down, or not. Examples These are examples of what the input may be. Not actual inputs Input: Output: Downgoat Spec Your program should be at most 30,000 bytes The input will contain the full goa...

code-challenge image-processing classification test-battery

Number Basher

04:04

CMQ: Should we pin all WIP languages onto the starred board or make them into a list?

Hmm, does users with 20- reputation show up on the avatar list?

Hi, @lyxal

lyxal

04:23

hello

Number Basher

04:35

hello

Aiden Chow

04:56

@NumberBasher well ig u could compile them into a list if u want to, but i feel like itll be hard to get a fully complete list becuz there are a lot of code golfers out there and not everyone is advertising their WIP langs

and also i feel like its kinda hard to classify what langs are WIP and what langs arent, like when does a lang become WIP to not WIP?

hmm and idk about pinning it on starboard... maybe pin when its LDW?

Number Basher

@AidenChow I mean, a list where eerybidy can add their lang for info

@AidenChow exactly

WOW...

that's... not what I expected

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher honestly i dont see a problem with that. ru going to host on github or what?

Number Basher

05:12

idk

just, hosting it on github => nobody is going to see it.

Aiden Chow

so what then?

Number Basher

=> useless

Aiden Chow

wait wdym by nobody is going to see it... we just sharing the link among the cgcc community, its not like we trying to get other ppl to know about it

Number Basher

ok, well i'm afraid that ... whatever, ok, i'll do it

Can you guys edit this gist?: gist.github.com/TvoozMagnificent/…

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher how? all i can do is leave a comment

Number Basher

05:27

How do I make it edittable

or do I have to create a repostiory

github.com/TvoozMagnificent/WIP-langs-for-LDW

@AidenChow .

Bubbler

Note that, even if you create a repository, others can't directly edit it. They submit a pull request (PR) and you need to approve them to get it edited

Number Basher

how can I make something edittable directly?

Aiden Chow

@NumberBasher i think the best u can do is pull request unless u use smth else other than github

Number Basher

@thejonymyster Well, you would have a lot of consecutive keystrokes or nearby keystrokes and some with shifts and some without, like <see edit history>

@AidenChow OK< then I will do that

So guys, the ~~not~~ official ~~at all~~ LDW language list is ~~honorably~~ presented here(github.com/TvoozMagnificent/WIP-langs-for-LDW)!!!

Aiden Chow

hmmm actually i think u can invite a collaborator, not sure tho

i found smth here: docs.github.com/en/account-and-profile/…

Number Basher

05:43

you know what I'm too lazy for that

let's do PR

~~Can someone actually star the link and try to make it appear on the board?~~

emanresu A

... why not just use an existing service that provides exactly this sort of thing

There's probably something with exactly this purpose but an anyone-can-edit google doc works fine

Number Basher

09:30

well, why can't you just background it

mousetail

I can but it uses so much CPU and RAM that it slows down everything else to a crawl

Number Basher

oh

emanresu A

09:40

→ 403 messages moved to Radiation Hardening

Number Basher

10:28

Hmm...

Radvylf Programs

12:51

@NumberBasher Typically every large KotH has its own room yeah

@NumberBasher If you want to post a lot of detail about it that wouldn't be of use to a general code golf audience, then yes

If it'll just be occasional questions or updates, you don't need to

mousetail

@RadvylfPrograms My koth considered large :eyes:

Radvylf Programs

Well, it's large in the sense that there's strategy and discussion possible.

Which is most (esp. good) KotHs

Ginger

example: the only KoTH I ever made was not good and did not get a room

mousetail

What was it?

Ginger

something about Crazy Eights

mousetail

12:58

@Ginger It's not bad, I think you just got unlucky

Need some momentum to get started

Radvylf Programs

Typical guideline for "should I make a room for this":
1. Is it too specific to be of interest to the typical code golfer? (So a specific challenge or language)
2. Will there be significant discussion of it? (A couple monologues back and forth every few days is fine here)
3. Will that discussion be too specific for TNB? (E.g., a stream of thought, or discussion of the language's implementation details, instead of general tips for golflang design or big updates, which are fine here)

Seggan

yeah ive kinda abandoned the fig room in favor of tnb

Ginger

~~tnb is the best of course~~

thejonymyster

the nineteenth byte after 4th generation golfing languages: the ninth bit

if half a byte is a nibble, is half a bit a nibbled?

Radvylf Programs

Genius

Number Basher

13:10

@RadvylfPrograms ok

mousetail

@thejonymyster Fractional bits are possible, if you use a base other than 2

Seggan

@thejonymyster tbh i dont think were ever gonna get past 4th gen

@mousetail yeah fig does this

thejonymyster

@mousetail in that case: the ninth of a bit

Ginger

pretty sure we cannot get any more golfy then we are already

mousetail

Ok I thought fig was going to be able to run on a normal computer

lyxal

13:12

⅑ bit

thejonymyster

@Seggan ive talked about it here before but i think what we have to do after we exhaust general use golfing langs is domain specific golfing langs

@lyxal wow lyxal so vulgar

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster I find that kind of boring tho

Ginger

I'm having my identity stolen by a DBA.SE mod pretending to be me send help

thejonymyster

@RadvylfPrograms why for?

mousetail

@thejonymyster So metagolfscript?

thejonymyster

13:13

?

Radvylf Programs

Eventually it'll be this MGS-esque fractal of ever more optimized langs

mousetail

Nothing more specialized

thejonymyster

well no you see, that's only phase one of the plan

phase two is we start using these domain specific langs out of their domain

for the true challenge of all time :bangbang: idk

Seggan

@Ginger thats literally what i just said...

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger Hard disagree

We've got a lot of room to explore with different encodings, overloading, and better operator choice

mousetail

13:16

Which happens quite frequently

Seggan

@NumberBasher what is this

lyxal

oh hey @Seggan is here

hi Seggan

Seggan

hi lyxal

havent met in a while

lyxal

→ 9 :sobs: that I see way too much now moved to Off-Topic TNB

thejonymyster

:61862361 Umm they were posting about you in this server, umm im going to have to block you until you explain this...

lyxal

13:17

@Seggan ikr

thejonymyster

...? why wont my reply reply

lyxal

hm

I wonder

thejonymyster

ah i just missed the bus lol

didnt catch that one

@RadvylfPrograms if you have an operator which changes behavior entirely depending on where it is used, is that "overloading" or something else

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms yeah a different encoding is my def of 4th gen

cant get far beyond that tho

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster Depends

if "where it is used" is referring to like, even vs. odd byte index, then I'd say no

if it refers to the data or other operators around it, it's more overloady

thejonymyster

13:21

right ok hm

Seggan

@thejonymyster so are you ever gonna reveal your lang?

thejonymyster

important note: whenever i say "im working on a lang" theres a 60-70% chance im talking about a brand new wip

i dont like to get hopes up :P

Seggan

ahh

so each LDQ was for a different lang? :P

thejonymyster

each individual question, yes

lol this latest one looks hopeful though, i just wanna get it at least like.. runnable though

im just always at work y_y never a chance to code

Ginger

shame you can't code as your work

Seggan

13:26

^

thejonymyster

true but im not interested in practical code

at the very least though it wouldnt be obvious when im slacking off :P

Seggan

@thejonymyster i managed to reimplement fig to runnable in 3 hours

thejonymyster

nice >:)

Seggan

in clojure

my clojure programs are an awkward mix between functional and imperative programming

lyxal

I once woke up and made an esolang in 1 hour to 1 and a half hours

so quick esolangs can be done

Seggan

13:28

if theyre simple

i managed to make a BF compiler in half an hour

lyxal

@Seggan or if you have a few hours of dreams to get the specs :p

Seggan

lol you made it up in a dream?

what is it anyway

lyxal

esolangs.org/wiki/Curlyfrick

@Seggan had a dream about making an esolang, woke up, made the esolang a thing straight away

thejonymyster

well i will talk abt what im trying to implement lol; its not anything spectacular or new but it will be my own :-)
idea is the program is just a series of mappings/scans/reduces, slightly tacit (any operator missing an operand will just assume "the current* element of the list")
i havent decided whether to try and make it TC / have loops of any kind

if i do im torn between having an explicit loop construct vs having the entire program be a loop xd

lyxal

imagine having motivation to innovate new esolang ideas

couldn't be me after 8 months of not following a planned timeline

Seggan

13:31

@thejonymyster explicit loops

thejonymyster

*or previous if its like, a reduce or something

@Seggan right that would be better, no idea how i should implement it though

Seggan

@lyxal are you hinting of a new language? :eyes:

lyxal

@Seggan no

Seggan

ah wait win emoji keyboard exists

thejonymyster

@lyxal couldnt be me either :P im sure my idea exists already lawl

lyxal

13:33

@Seggan the timeline I'm 8 months behind on

thejonymyster

if ppl end up finding my lang interesting ill feel bad for how badly implemented it is :-) the syntax is basically a joke atm

i always get the chat moves mixed up oops

Ginger

off-topic goes in OTTNB, garbage goes into our cakes which we then send to DBA.SE

3

lyxal

→ 19 stolen cups moved to my cupboard. No. You're not getting them back. Stop askign

thejonymyster

aw i was off by one

mousetail

DBA?

Ginger

13:41

Database Administration

Seggan

noo my eggs

mousetail

I thought CR was our enemy

lyxal

@mousetail radvylf once moved a whole off topic convo there

Ginger

radvylf dumped a bunch of messages into their main room by accident a while before you joined

I was there

mousetail

lol

lyxal

13:42

May 31 at 20:58, by Radvylf Programs

→ 55 messages moved to The Heap™ – Consultancy ©®

thejonymyster

@Ginger and we will never let him live it down because its really funny

or until we forget or something

Ginger

imagine a bunch of people crash in through your ceiling and then start discussing site relations while everyone else stares at them like ghosts

lyxal

Jun 5 at 13:35, by lyxal

→ 27 paradoxes moved to Off-Topic TNB (still unlike radvylf btw)

mousetail

Can room owners just move messages to arbitrary rooms they don't manage then?

lyxal

@thejonymyster as you can see, you're right

Seggan

13:43

@mousetail this

Ginger

May 31 at 21:00, by Ginger

well now you've done it

lyxal

@mousetail what's better is that pinned messages in the original room stay pinned in the target room

Ginger

that about sums it up

thejonymyster

@Seggan argh this is driving me crazy now i want to rework the syntax to be not bad to make my lang presentable LOL idk if i should do it

mousetail

I need to become a room owner now

thejonymyster

13:45

i dont wanna scrap decent code for unknown quality code

Ginger

@mousetail what, here?

thejonymyster

in general, i imagine

Ginger

~~I'd make a comment about how that position requires maturity and experience but lyxal did it with just experience so~~

lyxal

@mousetail as you wish

chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/138771/room-where-mousetail-is-ro

mousetail

In all honesty this seems a very abusable mechanic

lyxal

13:51

well yes

mousetail

You can flood a room with a lot of messages and it takes more time to get rid of them

Ginger

we count on people not being assholes

brandon santibañez

hi. my names is brandon, im learning python 3. i can help anyone if they need my help :D

Ginger

er

mousetail

@brandonsantibañez Hi

Ginger

13:51

hello brandon and welcome to TNB!

brandon santibañez

thanks men!

Ginger

please make sure you read the chatiquette over

lyxal

and then make sure you enjoy your stay in this little corner of the internet

Ginger

we have cookies!

lyxal, give our guest a cookie please

thejonymyster

@Ginger with a lot of bytes taken

mousetail

13:53

Ginger's cookies are not that good though

I'd give them a pass

Ginger

they're not mine, they're lyxal's

mousetail

All good then

lyxal

they're not just mine, they're the organisation's

brandon santibañez

okey it ready

thejonymyster

@thejonymyster in the interest of ever having a testable version of the lang, i am not going to implement this yet :P

Radvylf Programs

14:18

Docker is kinda antisocial

lyxal

so basically one of us

Radvylf Programs

TIL it adds a bunch of iptables rules that break things that rely on bridges between network namespaces

Which explains why all of my VM and container networking adventures have ended in tragedy

Number Basher

14:35

@Seggan New programming language I made

Olle Härstedt

14:48

My transpiler that outputs polyglot code moves forward... :)

Only PHP and C tho

I guess other languages might be possible as well... :d

But there would have to be a macro system in place.

So not Java

55

Q: Can I have macros in Java source files

In my program I'm reading integers form console many times. Every time, I need to type this line. new Scanner(System.in).nextInt(); I'm used to C/C++ and I'm wondering if I can define something like #define READINT Scanner(System.in).nextInt(); and then, in every place in my java program ...

java macros

Or maybe Java?

thejonymyster

oh hype :D

glad to see you still making progress

argh i just had another crazy challenge idea but i know i have like a billion sandboxed challenge ideas i havent updated

Unrelated String

make it a billion and one

thejonymyster

will do

wanna state it here first though just cause thatll be faster to do first

(in case the response is "no thats bad")

pxeger

no thats bad

jk

thejonymyster

ah yeah youre right its basically some kind of quine variant

pxeger

14:56

go ahead

thejonymyster

no it actually is i didnt notice until just now LOL

ill say it but i wont sandbox it, i dont think it brings enough new to the table

...actually if i make it not quiney it could be workable

2 programs, 2 languages,
in lang A, program X takes input program X and outputs program Y,
in lang B, program X takes input program Y and outputs program X,
in lang A, program Y takes input program Y and outputs program X,
in lang B, program Y takes input program X and outputs program Y

Olle Härstedt

Oooh

thejonymyster

but i think this could be better if they didnt input/output programs, not sure though

first draft had three programs and three languages :P

was like "no, thats way too much, get to the core of the challenge lol"

pxeger

@thejonymyster If you have two programs that output each other that's basically a quine

thejonymyster

xactly

thats the unmodified version

pxeger

15:01

oh ok

thejonymyster

sorry, wasnt clear

pxeger

I thought the modification was making it two languages

thejonymyster

fair

no yea the modification would be changing the input/output of the programs

but i still want to maintain that like.... symmetry pattern

langs (A,B), programs (1,2),
in A, 1: f(x); 2: f^-1(x)
in B, 1: f^-1(x); 2: f(x)

previously f(x) was if input is 1, output 2

(or something)

Seggan

@NumberBasher whats it about

golflang or...

thejonymyster

sandbox question to hopefully clear up my queue a bit :P: in re this comment, does this make sense to allow? usually questions that take some function as input just do that, but considering the numbers to apply the function to are also given as input...

comment is proposing taking input as [a,b,c,] [f(a), f(b), f(c)]

instead of just [a,b,c] f

i cant tell if thats a reasonable way to allow more langs to participate or if its cheaty, as it potentially skips a step for langs that can take that sort of input

and i dont want to invent a whole bunch of rules for different languages

Unrelated String

15:35

i feel like cutting out the necessity of taking function input is just a good thing

it's not strictly necessary and it's not critical for the idea of the challenge

thejonymyster

well thats 2 for 0 against, on it then :P ill still allow either though

PyGamer0

16:00

May 31 at 20:58, by Radvylf Programs

is this why the DBA references have begun? :p

Ginger

yes

that was, as they say, the precipitating event

Ginger

16:12

> Software is like sex; it's better when it's free.
> - Linus Torvalds

thejonymyster

its also better open source

mousetail

16:30

@thejonymyster Software is like sex: It's better if it's free and open source

thejonymyster

and no malware pls

mousetail

Software is like sex: it's better with #[no_std]

8

thejonymyster

posting dumb coinflip game soon unless the feds get to me first

or unless theres an issue with it or something

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster I think Torvalds was using free in the sense of FOSS

thejonymyster

wait, the free in foss isnt beer?

Radvylf Programs

16:45

I don't think it is

> Free software means that the users have the freedom to run, edit, contribute to, and share the software. Thus, free software is a matter of liberty, not price.

thejonymyster

ohhh

got it

so foss is free "you can edit and share it" and open source is "and we will make it easy for you to do"

so when my friend said mario 64 was foss, they were only half right :P

Radvylf Programs

Yeah Nintendo's not big on the whole free thing :p

thejonymyster

so if some foss is available at no cost, is it ffoss?

Radvylf Programs

I'd call it FLOSS: Free (beer) + free (Liberty) + OSS :p

thejonymyster

oh my god i love that

something about the L coming from the collapsed meaning in parentheses tickles my brain

CMQ: can ski combinator calculus be implemented as
i=x=>x
k=(x,y)=>x
s=(x,y,z)=>x(z)(y(z))
or is that not rigorous

Radvylf Programs

17:04

I think they can, ignoring recursion limits (assuming the S combinator is correct 'cause I don't remember it exactly)

thejonymyster

ok cool good

im just concerned about the S one cause its supposed to like

not run if it doesnt have enough input? or something

wait i see the problem, theyre all supposed to take like, curried arguments right

so k should be, say, k=x=>y=>x

and then i dont even know what s would be :P

s=x=>y=>z=>x(z)(y(z)) probably works

there doesnt seem to be a js answer here so it makes me wonder if im still missing something

also i apparently downvoted this in january? i think the whole "evaluation order is up to you" confused and upset me :P

New Posts

17:26

1

Q: Play a dumb coinflip game

Write an interactive program or function which allows the user to play The Coinflip Game! The object of the game is to repeatedly flip a coin until you get the same result \$n\$ times in a row. Specific behavior of the program/function is as follows: At the start of the game, the user inputs a p...

code-golf interactive

Steffan

17:59

this is so weird, I can't figure out how/why on earth it works

in scalar context, inside a while loop, <.> which is the same as glob('.') seems to return '.' every other time and an empty string every other time

thejonymyster

19:10

@thejonymyster it seems like getting rid of the part where the programs output eachother removes the justification for there to be two programs at all

emanresu A

19:43

@mousetail ... You are

Of the radiation hardening room

thejonymyster

@emanresuA well clearly they weren't at the time of writing :P

Oh wait, I stand corrected

emanresu A

I RO'd them when I created the room

thejonymyster

20:01

yeah im just bad dw

@mousetail shit that's a good question

theres also the answer someone put which takes all input up front

Ginger

20:41

happy birthday linux!

mousetail

21:03

@thejonymyster I might post a answer on the general IO thread, there is one for generator output but not input I think

Bubbler

22:28

fb?

Ginger

lgtm

emanresu A

CMC: o u a f f m

Ginger

pardon

Radvylf Programs

Did you even click the link

emanresu A

*hover

Radvylf Programs

22:40

Tired of people not clicking links in CMCs then asking for context

emanresu A

lol

Ginger

you can't fool me that easily, radvylf programs

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA ˢˢʰ ᵇᵉ ᶜᵒᵒˡ ᵇᵉ ᶜᵒᵒˡ

Ginger

wllicouaffm

fmsn

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms ᵍᶦⁿᵍᵉʳ ᶜᵃⁿ'ᵗ ʰᵉᵃʳ ᵘˢ ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ

Ginger

22:42

oichy

yf

Radvylf Programs

Ginger, what is this contributing

emanresu A

My bad, I started this

Ginger

did you hover over each individual character of that message

and read the tooltips

I'm following instructions, is all

Radvylf Programs

No, because they're plain text

emanresu A

CMC: Given a list of words, convert it to a chat hover abbreviation. Link can be whatever

Ginger

22:43

ooh, good idea

emanresu A

(or you can take a link as input)

Ginger

python time

Radvylf Programs

@emanresuA WAIT

I just realized that was supposed to be a hover-for-spoiler

emanresu A

Lol

Radvylf Programs

Please make them clearer in the future, especially if they're rickrolls...

Ginger

22:45

ಠ_ಠ

Radvylf Programs

I figured it was just an elaborate rickroll

And was semi-impressed with it

emanresu A

@RadvylfPrograms Sorry, it's my default spoiler link

YOU NEED TO DO THE SPOILER

soryy caps lolc

Ginger

wait that doesn't work

fark

wait I'm doubly stupid

remind me how spoilers work?

emanresu A

[spoiler](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ "hovertext")

thejonymyster

@mousetail do they have one for "prompt input" in general cause theres now at least two programs where the input is taken all at once up front and i dont know whether i should say something or not <:P

@emanresuA guys watch out this is a rickroll link

Radvylf Programs

22:53

phew, saved me :p

Ginger

Python 3, 59 bytes: lambda i,w:"".join(["["+l[0]+"]("+i+' "'+l+'")'for l in w])

It'd be difficult to shorten that much more I think

Neil

@Steffan it's enumerating the matches, ending with the empty string, so you can use while (<gl*b>) to enumerate file names matching gl*b

Bubbler

@thejonymyster That way, you can't get the string representation of the term in the end

thejonymyster

ah right

js is USELESS!!!!!!!!1111

lyxal

23:27

@emanresuA there really needs to be a better way for hover spoilers for mobile

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