The Nineteenth Byte

Unrelated String

00:00

wait did it really

caird coinheringaahing

@ATaco so, tumblr? :P

@UnrelatedString Yeah, you couldn't edit who posted it, but you could edit the actual content of a post

With no version control IIRC

lyxal

so you mean that, for a certain period of time, I could have edited the stack status tumblr to say anything?

caird coinheringaahing

One, very NSFW example: reddit.com/r/tumblr/comments/c7m98m/what_was_post_editing

@lyxal It was like, 5 or 6 years ago

thejonymyster

the sacred texts!

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ye, 2015: support.tumblr.com/post/125445057067/…

lyxal

00:06

@cairdcoinheringaahing the stack status tumblr existed during that time. I could have made it say anything!

Radvylf Programs

"From 16:10 to 18:23 this afternoon, Stack Overflow for Teams was AT UR MOM'S HOUSE LMAOOO"

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fun fact, both of the links in Sometimes that's funny in this link to a blog under daddyslilwaifu.tumblr.com ಠ_ಠ

lyxal

@RadvylfPrograms silly, SO Teams didn't exist then :p

ATaco

Really important to clarify, you didn’t edit the root post, just the version of it in your reblog

Unrelated String

that makes much more sense

lyxal

00:14

oh well that doesn't sound as fun

thejonymyster

people dont check is the thing

so you may as well have edited the original

ATaco

Aye, still let’s you lie about what someone else said

For fun and profit

emanresu A

tfw you use Array.length in python

This is what I get for not installing the python extension

Unrelated String

wha

ATaco

That reminds me, I need to implement the list length Metamethod for funky3

And the string length one…

thejonymyster

00:21

test...

@ATaco did you manually type that ellipsis char or does your device autocorrect it lol

Nobody

I am thinking of a popularity contest monopoly

des54321

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh tumblr post editing produced so many incredible gems, the john green cock monologue is the biggest one, but there were numerous other ones too

i still have no idea why anyone thought that was a reasonable feature for a social media website

caird coinheringaahing

The one that always comes to mine for me is someone who was afriad of vampires, and it was edited, but I can't remember what it was edited to :P

@Nobody Tip: don't ever write a pop-con.

Basically any winning criteria is better, and true pop-cons should only really be done by people who a) have a lot of experience in writing challenges, so that the only thing that have to work on is the scoring, and b) understand the problems around pop-cons, and why they generally don't succeed

Aiden Chow

@Nobody monopoly koth probably a better idea than popcon, but idk how much strategy that would allow

probably none tbh lol

caird coinheringaahing

@AidenChow I've had a monopoly koth in the Sandbox for 4 years now

emanresu A

00:29

^^^^

des54321

@cairdcoinheringaahing i believe it was edited to danny devito, but i think there was some intermediate step between vampires and danny devito too

Aiden Chow

@cairdcoinheringaahing dang

caird coinheringaahing

@des54321 Yes, it was danny devito :P

des54321

there was also one where someone kept changing the f word to "fudgers"

Nobody

@AidenChow whoops I mean make the game

emanresu A

00:35

7 mins ago, by caird coinheringaahing

@Nobody Tip: don't ever write a pop-con.

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing So, just to go ham on this: there are 11 users with the Socratic badge; arguably, us 11 users are the best on the site at writing challenges. However, of those 11 users, only 6 have posted pop-cons, and 3 of those are pre-2015. Of those currently still posting challenges, me and WW have both posted exactly 1 pop-con each

Nobody

How should I change it?

Unrelated String

think of a sane spec and make it golf perhaps

caird coinheringaahing

Monopoly is a good koth candidate tbh

Nobody

But if I make it golf I’m afraid

Unrelated String

00:37

or make a golf challenge out of some small part of it to keep it both focused and interesting

Nobody

it will be bad

caird coinheringaahing

It's complex, but it works

Nobody

@cairdcoinheringaahing no way I am writing a monopoly game

on an ipad

emanresu A

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm just over halfway there :P

Nobody

What is well recieved

Socratic badge

caird coinheringaahing

00:40

Think of it this way: most code-golf challenges follow one of 2 paths: 1) this is how to transform X into Y (where X = input, Y = output), and 2) accept X, reject Y (where X, Y = input). If you can't transform your challenge idea into one of those 2, it's either much more complex, and so needs a lot of time in the sandbox, or, it isn't good for code-golf

So, for an idea based around "monopoly": what is the input?

Nobody

Well I don’t see another way except popcon

emanresu A

Should you be doing this then?

Nobody

So bye bye monopoly fuck it

caird coinheringaahing

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it happens, not all challenge ideas actually translate to quality challenges

Nobody

When will there be more learnyoualangforgreatgood

caird coinheringaahing

00:45

every 2 weeks, on alternate wednesdays

emanresu A

3 hours ago, by emanresu A

Any feedback? (in particular, the issues I've highlighted at the bottom)

caird coinheringaahing

next one will be the 8th, I believe

Nobody

Which Lang when

you really should do this more and leave a record

tho there is the history

Unrelated String

lyals can be hard to pull together and we don't want to run through our options too fast or burn anyone out

they're best when there's real earnest participation

Nobody

Ok

which Lang when

@UnrelatedString ok

des54321

00:50

current top lang on the meta post is pip, but that could change before the LYAL

Nobody

When

thnx

Isn’t it

@des54321 raisin

raisin bat waffle hahahahahahhahahha

@emanresuA which issues

emanresu A

Look at th ebottom

Nobody

Of what

emanresu A

01:05

the linked post

Nobody

Sandbox post?

ok let me seeeeee

No, a week, 2 weeks no post

@cairdcoinheringaahing what if I use this

9

I am mulling over a challenge to draw the Eiffel Tower in 3D with ASCII art, similar to this: https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/22763/10766. However, it has a problem. If I do it code-golf, it will be a boring kolmogorov-complexity problem and will produce some pretty ugly Eiffels. If I do ...

discussion

@emanresuA no, a week, 2wk no post?

emanresu A

Please, think about your messages before you post them, and make sure they make sense.

Nobody

I mean

It isn’t a dupe I think

And like2wk no post u win

Nobody

01:26

so
there you go

@emanresuA why was there no @

emanresu A

You're proving my point

Nobody

What

@emanresuA how

Sandbox Posts

02:51

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Invert an Interaction Table Not sure how to describe this, but roll with me here; Input is a table/list of non-commutative interactions between elements and their outcomes, in whatever format suits your fancy Example: [Rock*Rock=Tie, Rock*Paper=Loss, Rock*Scissors=Win, Paper*Rock=Win, ...

ATaco

03:47

@thejonymyster iPhone autocorrected it lmao

thejonymyster

nice

someone should make an IDE that lets you program the way that we format explained code in answers

DialFrost

04:41

Hai guys ltns!!!

Hows it going? :-)

thejonymyster

whats ltns ^_^ im doing good i just did one of the most technically complex challenges in my own lang so far

which isnt saying much since ive mostly done kc challenges

Aiden Chow

04:56

@DialFrost hi! havent seen u in a while

thejonymyster

wait i forgot my lang is terrible with strings and needs to parse input or else it reads "4" as a number that is far too large (52)

oh it stands for "long time no see" ive never heard that one

DialFrost

@thejonymyster long time no see

Lol

@AidenChow :3

Been on ELL for so long, and theyre chat is ded

Nobody

Can anyone explain this

DialFrost

So i thot i might js drop in and say hi :3

Nobody

Aiden Chow

05:04

@DialFrost some stuff has changed in this chat since u were last on :P

for one, there is an off topic chat room now

DialFrost

Yay!

Aiden Chow

also 3 new room owners :)

(u can see on starboard)

DialFrost

@Nobody yikes im not sure

Nobody

Shit

DialFrost

Wrs the off topic room

Aiden Chow

05:05

The Sand Trap

Room for discussions off-topic to CGCC (on-topic discussions s...

DialFrost

I wanna see :3

Nobody

Should I ask here or oftopic or where

Or so ;)

Aiden Chow

@Nobody probably off topic, unless if it has smth to do with code golf specifically

Nobody

@AidenChow Or SO

bad capitalization

Aiden Chow

@Nobody ig u could ask there, make sure ur q not asked before tho

Nobody

05:24

Ok

Nobody

05:34

@AidenChow this is the fundamental problem

0

Q: Installing Python on iSH

Not long ago my computer broke and I am stuck on an iPad. I installed iSH from the AppStore. Now I want to download Python and make sure pip works. I will not accept any answer where pip doesn't work. I have tried apk add python, which lead to the pip issue, but pip installing is important for me...

linux

Nobody

05:46

How long on average should it take for an answer

Aiden Chow

theres a chance it wont get answered cuz of how many questions are being asked on SO

a simple search for unanswered questions gives about 3 million out of 22 million questions, around 10% chance ur q wont get answered any time soon :p

Nobody

And yet

Haha

Nobody

06:12

Why

You've asked 3 questions recently, some of which have not been received very well by the community. Everyone learns at their own pace, and it’s okay to make some mistakes. However, the reception your questions have received thus far might ultimately block your account from asking questions entirely.

> You've asked 3 questions recently, some of which have not been received very well by the community. Everyone learns at their own pace, and it’s okay to make some mistakes. However, the reception your questions have received thus far might ultimately block your account from asking questions entirely.

I only asked 1

hey

des54321

@thejonymyster the real thing is if it autoformats code like that for you

emanresu A

Please don't use that sort of language here

→ 2 messages moved to Trash

Nobody

Why is it

(not why it got moved to trash or why I shouldn’t use that type of language, I mean why does it tell me I asked 3 questions?

Jo King

06:36

maybe it included the code golf questions? idk

pxeger

07:00

breaking news: I have actually, genuinely, protected a question for the first time in history

(because it kept attracting snippet-like answers which break the rules)

Unrelated String

🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

Aiden Chow

nice!

i have a sneaking suspicion that the "answer" round(n/1.618) is desmos lolol

this ohentis guy really thought he outgolf me in desmos by 4 bytes, in fact when converting to a function (to make it valid) it is longer than my submission XD

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger huh, yeah, that's actually worth protecting, at least while it's on the HNQ

ATaco

The ARBLE solution is also snippet-like, n//1.618

But it’s a full program

ARBLE’s main trick is looking like it’s cheating at anything simple, but it completely falls apart when presented with any amount of pressure

Aiden Chow

07:21

just found out that geogebra autocompletes parentheses and other stuff when pasting in code, saves some bytes

huh surprised that there seems to be no no geogebra answer for fibonacci sequence

0

A: Fibonacci function or sequence

GeoGebra, 38 bytes n InputBox(n Iteration(p+q,p,q,{0,1},n Input in Input Box. Outputs the nth term of the 0-indexed Fibonacci sequence starting at \$F_0=0\$, \$F_1=1\$. Try It On GeoGebra!

there we go, geogebra answer for fibonacci

Nobody

08:17

Do you think I should make a mariolanginterpreter codegolf

Jo King

not really, unless it's really simplified

Nobody

For instance.

?

@JoKing so say no elevators?

Jo King

i don't remember much about mario lang, but most simplified 2D interpreter challenges have only dealt with movement and a subset of the other instructions

Nobody

08:35

Why should I simplify it?

@JoKing .

Unrelated String

keeps it to what matters

Jo King

so it's more approachable? also, just post the message without pinging me, no other conversation is happening

Unrelated String

implementing the most basic logic of a 2d language is involved to golf to begin with, so it doesn't add much to have too much more but it might just chase people off

Nobody

Ok

i am designing a new program Lang maybe I will use thst

emanresu A

10:30

SMH bitcoin gets a design and we don't

lyxal

We already did in 2019 what tf are you talking about Jesse?

emanresu A

Oh wait nvm

I've somehow completely missed that, I thought we still had the stock theme

caird coinheringaahing

@emanresuA If we still had the stock theme, we'd be, by multiple years, the longest running site without a theme :P

emanresu A

Oofps

CMC: this

(take a number n and output the largest palindrome)

o/

PyGamer0

i finished my vim theme

caird coinheringaahing

10:40

@emanresuA I so want their logo to be a picture of dogecoin :P

emanresu A

That would be great

Sorry, doge

PyGamer0

github.com/PyGamer0/defun.vim

Nobody

10:59

@emanresuA wondering what doge means

guessing along the lines of smoling

smiling I mean

@PyGamer0 good

Wait, you can make SEs?

PyGamer0

wdym

Nobody

Which wdym

@PyGamer0 I posted 6 messages

PyGamer0

11:16

@Nobody this

Nobody

Well there’s a 51zone or sth

Area 51

area51.stackexchange.com

mathcat

yeah, but I think you need to pay a fee

Nobody

Why and how

@mathcat .

And what is the next lang for lyal

mathcat

@Nobody idk

Nobody

11:31

o/ gonna go

mathcat

o/

lyxal

12:06

never thought I'd be consulting uni lecture slides for inspiration for a code golf blog post instead of just getting information for exams lol

yet here I am

going through week 1 lecture material from Dan getting blog post content

mathcat

@lyxal well yeah that's obvious

I can see you

lyxal

hey wait a second

in Vyxal, 28 mins ago, by mathcat

Okay I'm gonna torture some people

I suddenly don't like what this means for me

PyGamer0

12:24

lol

thejonymyster

@AidenChow yea when i saw it i was seesawing between impressed and suspicious that they outgolfed The Desmos Master

(then i noticed it wasnt a function lol)

@pxeger noob question: what does protecting a question do and why is it warranted here?

my prior knowledge comes from scpwiki;

lyxal

Protecting a question on the StackExchange simply means that people with less than 10 rep can't answer it

thejonymyster

aha

mathcat

@lyxal ( ಠ◡ʘ )

thejonymyster

on scpwiki "protecting" keeps it from being voted on

i can see how this version instead would be useful here ty lol

lyxal

12:31

just as further info: the intention is that a question that's wildly popular is made to not attract spam or non-answers from people who are new to the site/exchange

thejonymyster

right, hence the hnq mention

lyxal

correctamundo

thejonymyster

^_^ undersanding achieve

lyxal

it's also useful if you get unregistered trolls frequenting a question

because fun fact: you don't need to be signed in to answer stuff

thejonymyster

lmao

anonymous code golfer who outgolfs everyone

jk they just post wrong longform answers

lyxal

12:33

@thejonymyster "we don't know who they are. All we know is that they keep outgolfing us and it's scary"

9

thejonymyster

does the site have downvote bomb protection? i know theres like, you cant go on a voting spree

i dont know if itd matter / be relevant on SO

at least not really here, but maybe on another stack?

lyxal

I suppose it would depend on the context of the downvoting and how it was performed

thejonymyster

(butchering terms here probably)

lyxal

@thejonymyster it's enabled across the entire network

I don't know much about voting reversal except for that it's a pain when you're trying to get people to rep milestones like 3k or some other round number

thejonymyster

ahh lol

lyxal

12:39

In other news, I've updated my blog post draft on how to esolang community. I've also added plans for some sections in the comments

thejonymyster

is that going to be on the blog on meta?

lyxal

yeah

codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/cgcc-blog

one of those kinds of posts

thejonymyster

ok great im hype then i dotn wanna spoil myself though lolollololol

been loving the blog

lyxal

it'll probably be #7 but people are free to blog in the meantime

I'll need a few weeks to get this one written

half because I want to make sure I get it right and half because motivation issues go brrr

thejonymyster

i could never be a blogger because im too used to being a microblogger #bloggolf

Ginger

13:06

holloh

thejonymyster

\o/

(palindromic wave for a palindromic greeting)

(even though its not)

Ginger

it... is palindromic

hol | loh

thejonymyster

not you me

\ != / moment

Ginger

no, it's more palindromic

thejonymyster

:thinker:

Ginger

13:09

h is not rotationally symmetric

but \o/ is

thejonymyster

nice

Ginger

you have outpalindromified me

good joj

thejonymyster

great jorb

dont we have a challenge where you like, flip a string but keep the matching ones intact

like {abc} => {cba}

instead of => }cba{

Ginger

can someone check? this is a great idea and if it doesn't exist I'm gonna make it

thejonymyster

make sure you get all the pairs
/\ () [] {} <> 3E

/j probably

pxeger

14:57

TIL GitHub Markdown supports interactive 3D models

Ginger

wot

Seggan

whaaaaaaaaaat

Ginger

why

PyGamer0

@pxeger wow thats very cool

Ginger

list of things that have no reason to exist but do anyway: this

pxeger

15:02

By the looks of it, this feature has existed for a long time: github.blog/2013-04-09-stl-file-viewing

Ginger

15:17

UI layout language concept:

window window:
    pixellayout layout:
        button button(0, 0):
            label: "Hello, World!"
            onclick: function(hello)

user

That looks like yaml

Except instead of an anchors you put the names right with the key

pxeger

I'd love a simple language designed specifically for DSLs like that

YAML comes somewhat close

Racket also has a kinda good method using "language-oriented programming" with Lisp syntax

Ginger

@pxeger Ah yes, digital subscriber lines

pxeger

domain-specific languages

Seggan

@pxeger groovy or kotlin

groovy more user-frendly but kotlin better

Ginger

15:31

@pxeger so you want a language... for making languages?

or am I misunderstanding

pxeger

Haskell can have some fairly elegant DSLs using funky monads and do notation, but its syntax isn't perfect

@Ginger I want a basic syntax on which I can base all my languages

Ginger

¯\_(ಠ_ಠ)_/¯

Radvylf Programs

15:47

→ 29 messages moved to Off-Topic TNB

Seggan

do we seriously not have a simple "shortest brainfuck interpreter" challenge...

Adám

@Seggan Extended Dyalog APL wins with 3 bytes: ⌂bf

Radvylf Programs

134

Q: Interpret brainf***

Write the shortest program in your favourite language to interpret a brainfuck program. The program is read from a file. Input and output are standard input and standard output. Cell size: 8bit unsigned. Overflow is undefined. Array size: 30000 bytes (not circled) Bad commands are not part of t...

code-golf interpreter brainfuck

Seggan

wait whaaaaat?

@RadvylfPrograms hmm my se searches are apparently bad

ive been looking for the past 10 minutes

Radvylf Programs

I found it with [interpreter] brainfuck, which brought me to a dupe of it

Seggan

15:54

:facepalm: its becuase i used interpreter instead of interpret* as a search term

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms CMM: should we uncensor "brainfuck" in the title?

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan Tags exist for searching, use them :p

pxeger

since it made searching for it harder

Radvylf Programs

Sure, makes sense to me

OP hasn't been active in 5 years so I don't think they'll care

pxeger

hmm, looking at the edit history though:

> Stack Exchange rules disallow brainfuck's name in titles, specifically (this rule was added a while back after PPCG caused trouble for the rest of the site

That was 5 years ago though

Ginger

15:57

just leave it, if anyone dislikes it they can edit it themselves

Radvylf Programs

I could see why they wouldn't want "brainfuck" in the HNQs or top questions list

Leaving it is probably fine, finding it with tags and dupes isn't too hard

pxeger

in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 10 secs ago, by pxeger

Is that rule still in force (5 years later)?

Ginger

CMQ: What's a good maximum waiting time for roomlist loading?

Seggan

1 minute

Ginger

I'm trying to figure out how many rooms to display per page, and each room tacks on another 300ms of loading time

Radvylf Programs

16:06

@Seggan Uh...you'd spend 60s sitting at your computer waiting for a list of rooms to load?

Ginger

well I could load up to 200 rooms per page then /s

Seggan

@RadvylfPrograms yeah

or maybe my internet is that bad

Radvylf Programs

Sounds like it's the second, if a site takes more than 2s or so to load I assume it's not working right

The SE chat /rooms list takes about 300ms total and that feels sluggish to me

graffe

Hello!

Seggan

Hey!

Radvylf Programs

16:14

Hi!

Ginger

Heyo!

mathcat

Hi

graffe

Is this a famous problem? I have k piles of coins and each coin has a different value. I can take one coin at time from a pile. If you can take 100 coins what is the maximum value you can get?

Radvylf Programs

Huh interesting

graffe

The values are 0 or more

pxeger

16:17

@graffe Can you only take a coin from the top of each pile?

graffe

@pxeger yes

Seggan

CMC or sandbox this

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan Brute force is likely what people will do though

I think graffe is looking for something more optimal

Seggan

maybe theres a formula for it

graffe

Yes how do you do it optimally?

You get to see all the values for all the coins

Is this something dynamic programming can solve?

Seggan

16:20

Me a coder and doesnt even know what dynamic programming is smh

graffe

@Seggan en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_programming

Seggan

yeah i googled it

Radvylf Programs

@Seggan The "programming" doesn't refer to coding-programming, more like "linear programming" IIRC

Seggan

ah

i knew of dynamic typing and dynamic languages but not dynamic programming

graffe

CMC An algorithm for my coin problem above

pxeger

16:24

Does something like this work?

Find the average value of all the coins

Replace each coin's value with its difference from the average

Cumulative-sum each pile, bottom-to-top

Use a greedy method to choose the highest value amongst the all the tops of the piles

Radvylf Programs

Maybe start with some choice of 100 coins. Then repeat this:
1. Choose a stack with `x` coins
2. For every number from `x` to `100`, find the optimal way to take coins from the other stacks and add it to this one
3. Go with whichever of those results in the best outcome

pxeger

@pxeger You effectively weight the tops of the piles based on the potential value you can gain from underneath them

Radvylf Programs

If you do some setup first, brute force is exponential it seems

Based on the number of piles

pxeger

My algorithm is linear, but I'm not sure it actually works

Ginger

wrong room lol

Radvylf Programs

16:33

@pxeger Doesn't work if the 101st coin is a hundred billion gazillion, right?

Or wait, would you only consider n coins where n is the number you have left to choose

@pxeger The averaging step isn't necessary, is it?

It seems like changing it by a constant wouldn't have much of an effect

pxeger

@RadvylfPrograms well if the 101st coin in any pile is a hundred billion gazillion, then it's no use to you under any circumstances

because you can never access it

you only ever need to consider the top 100 coins of each pile

Radvylf Programs

Yeah, I misread your description as taking the cumulative sum from the absolute bottom to the top, not the bottom you can access

pxeger

Well that was what I meant, because I didn't think of that, but if you make that change, then I think it does work

each time you remove a coin, you'd need to remove the bottom coin from every pile except the one you removed the first coin from, and recalculate the cumulative sum (or just subtract the removed bottom coin's value from every coin above it)

unless the pile isn't too long

@RadvylfPrograms I think you're right, yeah

Jonah

16:59

City in a Bottle -- a very impressive animated 3d golf in JS/HTML.

9

Mayube

@Jonah that's awesome

Seggan

17:14

TIL that hovering over those lines in gh homepage shows random issues

Mayube

huh

Seems the line's origin is the location of the issue opener. I wonder what the destination is. The location of the repo's creator?

Seggan

lines are prs merged

place opened and place merged

Mayube

Ah ok

interesting

pxeger

the vertical beams are issues

New Posts

0

Q: Calculate the Lowest Even-Harmonic of the Values in a List

PROBLEM For a list of numbers, list: Find the lowest possible integer, x, which is optimally close to the whole number even-harmonics of the values in list. list has a length of n, and all of the values in list are <= 2000 x has a precision of 1.0 (integers only), and must be a value in the rang...

code-golf math number-theory

Romanp

17:35

Just got Copilot! Only problem is it's the last day of my job. Will still come in handy.

Seggan

how long ago did you apply? it took me 7 months

Romanp

Few weeks.

I think officially being an "employee" of a tech company helped, but IDK.

Sandbox Posts

19:56

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Determine Uilta Pitch Accent Uilta is a minority tungusic language spoken in the far east of Russia. A neat thing about Uilta is that it has pitch accent which can be predicted by a computer program. In this challenge we are going to take Uilta a word and determine where the accent peak is. Let ...

The Sand Trap

Transcript for