The Nineteenth Byte

PyGamer0

13:09

s/

Ginger Industries

am back

@lyxal wait ur australian

PyGamer0

yea he is

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 tHEN HOW IS IT UPSIDE DOWN

also I have more photos of my other kitty

lyxal

@GingerIndustries text and images are automatically flipped before being displayed

It's a thing that comes installed on every phone in Australia

Ginger Industries

oh

also do you want to see the other kitty

PyGamer0

13:13

is it just a big gaint meme right

Ginger Industries

no, it is a real kitty

PyGamer0

that Australians see everything upsidedown

lyxal

@GingerIndustries I'd like to make an edit of it, yes.

Ginger Industries

her name is Luna and she is the evil one
kinda like lyxal in kitty form

lyxal

@PyGamer0 (yes, but don't tell anyone I said so)

Ginger Industries

13:14

there she is

lookin evil

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries i like the other kitty who was about to commit arson

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 but this one looks like it belongs to a supervillan

lyxal

not really

PyGamer0

^

Ginger Industries

@lyxal cmon she's got everything! the posture, the condescending look

PyGamer0

13:16

@GingerIndustries but she is under a chair

Ginger Industries

i also have this one:

lyxal

3

Ginger Industries

that's her being anxiety

she looks real snooty but she has an anxiety disorder or smth and will flee as soon as you breathe at her

unless you gain her trust

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries breathes

@GingerIndustries Patrick: she is staring at me, MENACINGLY

lyxal

wrong image

one second

4

@GingerIndustries as you can see, it's not anxiety, it's guilt

Ginger Industries

13:19

I also have this much older one:

im just diggin through my folders trying to find more of them

I JUST FOUND ONE OF PIXEL ITS THE BEST ONE YET

DialFrost

y is nobody accepting my edits

...

Ginger Industries

kitty

DialFrost

sigh

lyxal

PyGamer0

@DialFrost because i dont have enough rep

DialFrost

13:22

but the rest have...

:(

anyone here a avid chess player

PyGamer0

@lyxal not funny, the previous 2 were very funny

DialFrost

i mean like, the answer for me is my pfp

:)

Ginger Industries

lyxal captions your kitties!

PyGamer0

@DialFrost i would say i am a noob, i think @Razetime plays chess

lyxal

6

DialFrost

13:23

razetime plays chess?

nice

im also noob

u use lichess.org pygamer?

Ginger Industries

does anyone else have kitties

lyxal

no

I have need for sleep though

Ginger Industries

darn

lyxal

o/

DialFrost

hi @Razetime u play chess right?

Ginger Industries

13:24

@lyxal thank you for giving us these comedic masterpieces, o/

PyGamer0

@DialFrost sorry i dont eat lichens

DialFrost

lol

razetime?

is he afk

Razetime

@DialFrost yes

PyGamer0

nvm

DialFrost

oh

u use lichess.org razetime?

Ginger Industries

13:25

alright, time to work on PXLCODE

Razetime

yes

username rallzetime

DialFrost

sayyyyyy

ur actually decent

Ginger Industries

pyxl: O NOES! AN ERROR HAZ OCCURED WHILE PARSING: UNEXPECTED TOKEN: 2 (INTEGER) AT LINE 19 (CHAR 168)
me with my 14-line file:

DialFrost

although im alot more active

Razetime

it has been a while since a played.

that rating may not be accurate

DialFrost

13:26

ic

so ur underrated ?

PyGamer0

@DialFrost ok i made an account what do i do lol

Ginger Industries

go home pyxl, ur drunk

DialFrost

play games:)

Razetime

@DialFrost overrated

PyGamer0

@DialFrost with whom?

DialFrost

13:27

the public?

guys guess how many games i've played and my bullet rating

im not very good tho

^on lichess

PyGamer0

@DialFrost lichess.org/Ypmezrgb

#)_#)

DialFrost

bruh

any guesses?

PyGamer0

@DialFrost 2k

DialFrost

i gtg bed soon lol

2k games?

Razetime

bullet is not good for improving at chess

neither is blitz

DialFrost

13:29

lol

for me it is

it has its benefits

i've played 19k games in total for all variants of chess

:(

although i rarely have time to do rapid/classical

Ginger Industries

ok if anyone wants to help me w/ PXLCODE there's a room for that

DialFrost

@Razetime blitz is actually good enough to improve greatly

Razetime

if you spend more time on classical you will give your head time to actually remember patterns and improve.

DialFrost

nah

i fall asleep

i play 15s and 30s chess daily my guy

Razetime

chess is a very slow, sleepy game

DialFrost

13:31

nah

it can be fast and fun

Razetime

slow and sleepy doesn't mean it isn't fun

i am a slow and sleepy person and like chess very much

DialFrost

im a fast person and like chess very much

Razetime

classical chess is a beautiful game if you take the time to appreciate it

DialFrost

bullet is a beautiful game if you take the time to appreciate it

Razetime

blitz games meanwhile are 15 theory moves and then 30 blunders

so is bullet

DialFrost

13:33

30?

Razetime

it's just an estimate

DialFrost

ru sure

Razetime

how many accurate moves do you play per blitz game

DialFrost

its usually less than 5 based on my experience

GM's get 0 or the occasional 1

Razetime

We are not talking about GMs here

we are talking about personal improvement as a chess player.

DialFrost

13:34

look at the msg above it then

less than 5

usually 2

Razetime

hm. I definitely wanna see your games then

DialFrost

for some reason i improve by playing a lot, a lot lot lot lot of games

search me up then

groshks

^my user in lichess

Razetime

I can't really calculate your average from your profile

but your most recent game all by itself has 14/36 inaccurate moves

and the next recent one has 21

out of 25

DialFrost

for blitz?

Razetime

both blitz

calculating from both players

obviously computer analysis is extremely biased

but when it comes down to playing good moves blitz is not healthy. Moving fast is fun, but it doesn't lead to good chess unless you're already an amazing player (which requires classical experience)

DialFrost

13:40

depends

i still luv fast games no matter wat

my sch alr has a titled player im very surprised

CM

Razetime

sch?

i suppose you have some experience in offline chess

DialFrost

school

Razetime

do try playing at an offline tournament.

DialFrost

and yes i do agree 15s and 30s is abit too fast for improvement but tats wat i like :P

it costs too much :(

PyGamer0

i played a game of chess

Razetime

13:42

@DialFrost ah that's a sad barrier.

well if you have any low cost open tourneys try them

especially classical

it'll give you some perspective of how your chess habits are helping you

DialFrost

okey

the FIDE torunaments are $60 to enter if u have no FIDE rating

...

btw im in singapore, everything is insanely expensive

:(

Razetime

idk about singapore, but if you do manage to get finances to try it out it's worth at least one shot

DialFrost

okey

singapore is the country where a standard car is 300,000

$

a 300,000 car in USA e.g. ferrari is basically 1mil in singapore

very rare to see expensive sports car here

rare correction not veyr

very*

well i gtg sleep

gn guysss!

Razetime

take care, sleep well

PyGamer0

õ/

DialFrost

13:47

:)

Ginger Industries

@DialFrost you can edit posts to fix typos if u want

also/

DialFrost

?

k thx

Ginger Industries

np :)

PyGamer0

@GingerIndustries actually "also/" is better

Ginger Industries

@PyGamer0 nice catch

Bgil Midol

14:20

Any feedback?

thejonymyster

@BgilMidol i think the "something like" part needs to be accompanied with more specific rules

one second thought its not that big a deal

but both the cops and robbers need to have objective scoring criteria still

Bgil Midol

@thejonymyster working on it

thejonymyster

then once thats done i think youre good to post

null

when you discovered the answer you've been trying to golf has an unnecessary byte...

gotta automate that in the future

Bgil Midol

@thejonymyster good?

Razetime

14:31

@BgilMidol this is not python only, is it?

Bgil Midol

also i think i should add a max number of slices

@Razetime the slice type or the code?

Razetime

both.

you need to specify both

thejonymyster

or you could score the cops on the amount of slices that they used, with lowest being best, thats what i thought you had in mind when i first saw the post to be honest

Razetime

hm that is a good idea jony

null

wow

apparently

Razetime

14:34

maybe better as a tiebreak

null

someone is here

Razetime

?

Bgil Midol

@thejonymyster good?

Razetime

@BgilMidol i feel like this may be too easy but my experience with cops and robbers is too limited

maybe really fat code with tons of slices will work.

thejonymyster

@BgilMidol i think im underqualified to say

the challenge concept seems perfectly fine, but i have issues with the formatting

rather the phrasing of the post seems odd, but i dont have experience with that

i typically need help there as well

StackMeterPlus

15:02

i am back

Fmbalbuena

15:14

@StackMeterPlus Welcome

StackMeterPlus

i had a spurt of inspiration and churned out 4-5 answers in a few hours

mathcat

15:52

I am back too

(from exams)

Bgil Midol

16:07

hi

mathcat

null

16:29

who posted a tinylisp HW answer a few hours ago

...that's what I intended to post a while ago

but didn't due to power outage.

I bet @Razetime is really gone this time unlike the last time

p. s. tell me to post an effortful answer at least once in two weeks

if i failed tell me to give a bounty

Catija

16:58

@cairdcoinheringaahing We post the stats of how many posts get status reviewed each month here - meta.stackexchange.com/questions/348642/…

Ginger Industries

update: I am not dead, I am just working on PXLCODE

mathcat

o.0

no?

how's PXLcode?

^ the feeling when you hold shift when typing and when you're almost done, you're too lazy and release shift

Ginger Industries

17:13

@mathcat things

Bgil Midol

@mathcat just use CAPS LOCK

mathcat

but it's one key higher than shift :/

caird coinheringaahing

@DialFrost Just so you're aware, the policy on SE is to reject suggested edits that only add syntax highlighting. If it's part of another edit, that's fine, but if it's just to add the syntax highlighting, it'll be rejected

Unrelated String

17:30

@PyGamer0 it was pretty memorable

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

17:44

I don't think this answer deserves three downvotes. It's a duplicate, but those are explicitly allowed under site rules. It didn't have a byte count at first, but this is a new user and it's not uncommon for people to not be sure how the byte counts work at first. It made effort to explain how the answer works, which is already more effort shown than a good 80% of the answers on this challenge. — ta Radvylf srik su shilani 3 mins ago

If anyone here was someone who downvoted that Python submission to HW yesterday, I don't think it should've been downvoted that much

It was a new user, and it seems they at least put some effort into it, so three downvotes isn't really the best welcome message

We got a bunch of sleet here last night, so it looks like it's snowed but it's just ice

It's been more than 336 hours since the Best Of nominations post was put up. Should we start the voting?

DLosc

18:10

@taRadvylfsriksushilani I love sleet. It's such an absurd form of precipitation--like hail but not painful.

Parcly Taxel

18:24

How's my challenge proposal going?

emanresu A

18:35

@taRadvylfsriksushilani ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Probably

Need a mod for that though

DLosc

@ParclyTaxel I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around the math, but from a code-golf perspective I'd say you should mention what are acceptable output formats. We usually like output formats to be pretty flexible. One reasonable (to me) format would be a list of lists, each of which consists of four integers in the interval [0, 13] (or [1, 14]).

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

My parents' office: Decides to require full disk encryption on their company laptops, with super long secure randomized passwords
All the people who work there: Write the passwords on sticky notes

Parcly Taxel

@DLosc So I can think of two main formats: a list of lists of 14 distinct symbols (not just numbers) and 91 printed lines. Do I have to list every such format I can think of?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Security at the cost of convenience comes at the cost of security, lol

DLosc

@ParclyTaxel I think you could use language something like this: "Output should consist of 91 blocks of four values each. You may use any 14 distinct values. Formatting is flexible, but there must be a clear separation between blocks, and it must be clear which four values are in each block."

And then it wouldn't hurt to show a couple of different possible formats as examples.

thejonymyster

18:48

@taRadvylfsriksushilani is it secure against online attacks?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

No, that's not what disk encryption protects against

DLosc

@taRadvylfsriksushilani s/No,/Technically, yes, but/ ?

thejonymyster

@taRadvylfsriksushilani secure to "man in the building" attacks

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Yeah, since these are laptops, I'm sure the reason for the disk encryption is in case the laptops are stolen

DLosc

So the real security task is to make sure the post-its don't get stolen.

5

Ginger Industries

18:57

ok so PXLCODE just crashed so hard the debugger broke

i don't even know what to do now

mathcat

@GingerIndustries never give up

Epic people never give up

(which means I am not epic)

thejonymyster

and epic people never let you down

mathcat

and epic people never run around and eat desert

Ginger Industries

and epic people never make you cry

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@DLosc Full Post-it Encryption

Parcly Taxel

19:00

@DLosc codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/24407/110698 – does it look better now?

Ginger Industries

@taRadvylfsriksushilani cmon you broke the sequence

mathcat

and epic people never say good boy

thejonymyster

c-c-c-combobreaker! (its ok)

DLosc

@GingerIndustries and epic people never say goodbye (to their post-it notes)

Ginger Industries

@DLosc and epic people never tell lies and hurt you

DLosc

19:02

epic people have known each other for so long

Ginger Industries

their hearts have been aching but
they're too shy to say it

Parcly Taxel

I'm actually very new to this SE, having spent most of my time on MathsSE and (more recently) Puzzling

DLosc

@ParclyTaxel Yes--I'd just tweak "The following are acceptable output formats" to "The following are two possible output formats" to make it clear that those aren't the only acceptable formats.

@ParclyTaxel Welcome! A background in maths and puzzling is a good sign that you'll fit right in here. ;)

mathcat

@ParclyTaxel nice. I was something like SO -> MathsSE -> CGCC -> Puzzling -> CGCC

Parcly Taxel

My only three SEs are MathsSE, Puzzling and now this

Parcly Taxel

19:35

Is the "standard loopholes are forbidden" message still popular these days?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

No, it's the default, so all that linking to it does is give people ideas :p

Ginger Industries

heyyy PXLCODE imports work

time to throw together a standard library

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I have made 19 nominations this year lol (out of 71, so 27%)

Parcly Taxel

As it turns out, I am the creator of the 1+ esolang

20

Q: The 1+ Metagolf Challenge

I'm letting this one out of the sandbox. Hopefully it is well-written and make sense, feel free to improve. So in order to make 1+ more popular (and ease the creation of golfed 1+ text-printing programs) here comes the metagolf challenge: The 1+ Language 1+ is a fun deque-based esolang where 1 is...

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Well, made my probably-final nomination.

There is now just one category with no competition

Wait, no, two

Parcly Taxel

20:02

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Is your nick related to that katlani thing or is it rot13 or what?

emanresu A

It's katlani

Bgil Midol

@ParclyTaxel My username is also katlani

emanresu A

o/

Ginger Industries

\o

Parcly Taxel

My username is just about a decade old at this point; it comes from paclitaxel

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

20:12

@ParclyTaxel katlani

It translates to "Redwolf writes programs", and I usually go by Redwolf Programs

Parcly Taxel

20:24

For my proposed challenge it's hard to verify output by hand, so I've included a drag-and-drop verifier. Is that OK?

(also please check for any holes or hazy points or other problems, I should be posting it within the next 24 hours)

Bgil Midol

CMQ: Is it possible to create your own unicode chars and add them to a codepage?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Yes, in the PUAs

(Private Use Areas)

Bgil Midol

how?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Just make a font that supports them and you're done

Bgil Midol

um

how?

Parcly Taxel

20:31

Any reasonable font editor like FontForge will do

Just scroll to the PUAs and put your glyphs there

DLosc

20:54

For Slowest Gun in the East, the description suggests that the category is for late answers that are unappreciated compared to earlier answers. Does that mean an answer that comes years after the challenge was posted, but is the first valid answer, doesn't qualify for SGITE? I could nominate it for Wild Card instead.

Ginger Industries

@taRadvylfsriksushilani TIL that the Raspbian default font (I think it's called Piboto) has a Tux emoji as the first character in its PUA

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@DLosc I'd read it that way too, but Bubbler has already nominated a first answer, so it's probably fine

And a category for first answers to old unanswered questions would be good anyway

Ginger Industries

CMQ: What 's the "HNQ Jackpot?"

Parcly Taxel

What is a CMQ?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Chat Mini Question

There's also CMC (Chat Mini Challenge), CMM (Chat Mini Meta), and CMP (Chat Mini Poll)

Ginger Industries

21:02

fun fact: I am #820 in total site reputation

Parcly Taxel

The first thing that comes to mind when I think of CMC is Cutie Mark Crusaders – I am a pony artist

pxeger

@GingerIndustries getting your challenge (or the challenge which your answer is on) onto the Hot Network Questions list and getting loads of upvotes basically by luck

Parcly Taxel

@GingerIndustries I am #80 all-time on MathsSE

Ginger Industries

@pxeger would this question count for that?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

the-nineteenth-byte.fandom.com/wiki/Chat_Mini_Challenge

pxeger

21:04

@GingerIndustries idk, it did hit the HNQ, but it didn't get loads of upvotes

Ginger Industries

@pxeger well if we assume that 50 upvotes is about the amount needed, then it may not have gotten loads but it did get l

so it hit the HNQ Ja

pxeger

questions with properly clickbait titles often hit the HNQ

e.g. codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/224365

Ginger Industries

@pxeger alr, I will take this into consideration

DLosc

@GingerIndustries The reason why Calvin's Hobbies is ninth in all-time rep while only having posted 25 answers. ;)

Ginger Industries

@DLosc ಠ_ಠ

PXLCODE be like FOUND YR ME'Z POW YR N AN YR ME'Z E MKAY

DLosc

21:08

And, in the opposite direction, the reason why ais523 posts most things as community wiki these days (to protest how easy it is to gain rep from low-effort clickbait).

Ginger Industries

@DLosc conclusion: post low-effort clickbait

pxeger

@GingerIndustries that's CW though

Parcly Taxel

I am also not sure whether my proposal would merit the kol-com tag; the output is not fixed, but the mathematical object to be output is, so...?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

That's a kolmo, yeah, if I'm reading it right

pxeger

> Output all blocks of some SQS(14) – how it is constructed is irrelevant

If I'm reading this right, you may want to add the open-ended-function tag

Parcly Taxel

21:11

Does it look good for publishing on main, people?

Ginger Industries

@ParclyTaxel link?

pxeger

@GingerIndustries codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/24407

Ginger Industries

@ParclyTaxel I'd suggest adding a reference implementation so small-brain people like me have something to work off of.

pxeger

@GingerIndustries a reference implementation will be just something like print("[[0, 1, 2, 4], [1, 2, 3, 5], [2, 3, 4, 6], ..., [5, 0, 8, 10]]")

it's a kolmogorov-complexity

Ginger Industries

@ParclyTaxel @pxeger oh, alr. Looks good then! :)

reminder that the SI unit for "soccer" is "football"

New Posts

21:30

0

Q: How many laps around the permutation?

Your input is an array of numbers: a permutation of \$\{1, 2 \dots n\}\$ for some integer \$n \geq 2\$. How many times must you repeat this list before you can "pick out" the numbers \$[1, 2 \dots n]\$ in order? That is: find the lowest \$t \geq 1\$ so that \$[1, 2 \dots n]\$ is a subsequence of ...

code-golf array permutations subsequence

thejonymyster

whats the complexity class of deciding whether something is turing complete?

Ginger Industries

@thejonymyster (turing-complete)complete

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@thejonymyster ITTM

Determining if something is turing complete is equivalent to solving the halting problem

I think

Might be harder than that, idk

But it's definitely not easier

Because you can do if<anything>then brainfuck

thejonymyster

@taRadvylfsriksushilani which "halting problem" does this refer to

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I wasn't aware there were multiple

thejonymyster

21:37

or wait, give me a second im stupid

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

The halting problem basically states that its impossible to design a turing machine program that can, given any turing machine program, determine if it halts, in a finite amount of time

Ginger Industries

but we ~~don't~~ know ~~yet~~

also I have developed a theorem to prove that a sphere has infinitely many sides

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

E.g., you can't write a brainfuck program that can take any brainfuck program as input and return whether it halts in a finite amount of time

@GingerIndustries Yeah we do

thejonymyster

so proving tc-ness is just as hard as proving haltingness (or maybe more)

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Yep.

thejonymyster

21:40

i find that quite surprising honestly

hyper-neutrino

well proving tcness implicitly proves halting undecidability

Ginger Industries

good thing we've got brainfuck then!

hyper-neutrino

likewise, proving halting decidability disproves TC

Ginger Industries

if it can run brainfuck then it's tc

hyper-neutrino

i think we've used that here several times to disprove TC; just show that a language can always be said to halt or not, or that it is unable to not halt

@GingerIndustries this too. generally implementing another TC language is the easiest way to prove TC lmao

brainfuck and BCT are common choices AFAIK

thejonymyster

21:41

but what if you decide it never halts?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

It's automatically not TC

thejonymyster

i didnt know that made it not tc :0

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Actually, I don't know

I think it technically wouldn't be TC, but for any practical purposes it would be

@thejonymyster I could design a language that keeps checking if an incrementing counter is a solution to the collatz conjecture before running code, or any other unsolved problem. If there is no solution, it's not TC, since no program ever halts. And since that problem it's checking could be any program, it's the exact same as the halting problem.

Ginger Industries

relevant xkcd

thejonymyster

@taRadvylfsriksushilani i need a bit to process how that works 🔍🧐

hyper-neutrino

21:48

i mean if you make a version of Python that just puts while True: pass at the end of every program, then technically i believe that is not TC even though it can basically do anything python can, it just can't halt

not sure though

Parcly Taxel

21:59

Wrote my first answer on here:

1

A: Kolmogorov-simple numbers

1+, 20 bytes, outputs \$2^{2^8}\$ 11+"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*: Try it online! The fastest way to get big numbers in 1+ (of which I am its creator) is to repeatedly square. One less repetition of "* will give an 18-byte representation of \$2^{2^7}\$, which however can be naively represented in 16 bytes; ...

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