The Nineteenth Byte

wizzwizz4

17:00

@pxeger [1, 2] * -2 == []; how do you imagine the semantics to work?

pxeger

[1, 2] * -1 is still [], but has a hidden state so that [1, 2] * -1 * -1 gives you back [1, 2]

ideally, all normal algebraic identities would hold

DLosc

@pxeger Sounds like a new Whython feature to me

@Fmbalbuena How do you mean?

Ginger Industries

I'm back

what have I missed

also the b64 link system works

almost

dancing-emoji.gingerindustries.repl.co/…

nvm, fixed it

mathcat

nice

pxeger

@DLosc I need to modify all non-numeric operator overloads so that they conform to standard algebra? Sure! lol

mathcat

17:11

Whython?

is that a language you're making>

pxeger

github.com/pxeger/whython

pxeger.com/2021-09-19-hacking-on-cpython

Wezl - a cautionary tale

okay how are you going to make + commutative?

Ginger Industries

Challenge: Make a symbol that represents "duplicate" in 2 ASCII characters or less
Winning symbol gets to to be in Dancing Emoji Generator

wizzwizz4

@Wezl-acautionarytale Python already makes somewhat of a distinction between add and concat. Just extend that, I'd imagine.

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@GingerIndustries :

wizzwizz4

17:14

@GingerIndustries *2

pxeger

@GingerIndustries d.

@Wezl-acautionarytale probably replace it with >>

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@GingerIndustries { maybe, like "split"

but *2 is the best

Ginger Industries

@wizzwizz4 I think *2 wins

DLosc

@GingerIndustries I support Wezl's suggestion of :, but other possibilities are =, ", and ||

@pxeger I mean, just list * int and int * list, unless you want to go all-out with it

pxeger

Well I'd like them all to be conformant

The fact Python already has @ as a standardly non-commutative non-associative operator is helpful

wizzwizz4

17:21

@GingerIndustries x2 might be better.

Ginger Industries

@wizzwizz4 good idea

wizzwizz4

@pxeger I thought it was associative.

Ginger Industries

it's been added

why did I spend about 3 hours of my life making this

then again, dancing-emoji.gingerindustries.repl.co/…

Fmbalbuena

@GingerIndustries who are you?

Ginger Industries

@Fmbalbuena what

wizzwizz4

17:24

when are you?

Fmbalbuena

@GingerIndustries are you new?

oh sorry

DLosc

WHY are you?

Fmbalbuena

new pfp...

Ginger Industries

@wizzwizz4 I am always

Neil

@RedwolfPrograms data:text/html;charset=utf-8, also works

Ginger Industries

17:25

@DLosc good question

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms gist.github.com/RedwolfPrograms/…

DLosc

@pxeger This is harder to implement than I expected

Neil

@RedwolfPrograms btoa(unescape(encodeURIComponent(" ┐ ._.┎")))

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@GingerIndustries can you please remove the x%s in the css, they're irritating on small screens

Neil

hopefully you can figure out the decoder yourself

Redwolf Programs

17:27

@Neil That's a lot worse though

It produces way longer results

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale ???

Redwolf Programs

Using a TextEncoder is the most efficient way

Wezl - a cautionary tale

dancing-emoji.gingerindustries.repl.co/style.css

> width: 20%;

wizzwizz4

@GingerIndustries Is there a reason you can't use Unicode? 🗐 might be a better symbol.

Ginger Industries

@wizzwizz4 I wanted ASCII because reasons

wizzwizz4

17:29

Of course. Reasons. Why didn't I think of that?

Neil

@Wezl-acautionarytale I'm not 100% sure but I think Charcoal copied those operators

Ginger Industries

@Wezl-acautionarytale sorry, I was too lazy to do more thought on it

Neil

@RedwolfPrograms ??? it produces exactly the same encoding as your code

Wezl - a cautionary tale

nw

Redwolf Programs

@Neil Oh lol, I misread it

Ginger Industries

17:32

@RedwolfPrograms If you make it Semi-Decentralized Secure and Anonymous Fast Transaction Ledger then the acronym can be MINECRAFTER

Redwolf Programs

Lol nice

Ginger Industries

seMI-deceNtralizEd seCuRe and Anonymous Fast Transaction lEdgeR

Redwolf Programs

Speed is going to be a major advantage of this system...

Ginger Industries

hm

Redwolf Programs

(In addition to reduced environmental damage and lower transaction fees)

Ginger Industries

17:33

well, DREAM also works but leaves out some words

DLosc

@DLosc For example, what do you get if you do L = [1, 2] * -1; L.append(3); print(L, L * -1)?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

tmw the teacher plays the rickroll as background music

pxeger

@wizzwizz4 the mathematical operation of matrix multiplication is, but I thought @ was added to not be conventionally defined in that regard

wizzwizz4

@pxeger All the documentation says that @ is matrix multiplication.

Redwolf Programs

@Wezl-acautionarytale "That my when"?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

17:38

that moment when

Redwolf Programs

Ohhh

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale dancing-emoji.gingerindustries.repl.co/…

Ginger Industries

@DLosc where is the other eye

Redwolf Programs

Come on, my school just blocked the emoji generator >:|

DLosc

That is the head. There are no eyes.

Ginger Industries

17:39

@RedwolfPrograms :/

DLosc

You do not need eyes to dance to the Rickroll

Ginger Industries

@RedwolfPrograms one sec, lemme put it on github

Redwolf Programs

I'll have to set up SQS on my new server when I get home

Fmbalbuena

Any Feedback?

Wezl - a cautionary tale

I think it could use a better explanation

Ginger Industries

17:41

@Fmbalbuena VTC rickrolls for off-topic

Wezl - a cautionary tale

maybe a test case for [5,3,4,1]

Redwolf Programs

I really like the idea of the challenge but it's definitely a dupe

Fmbalbuena

@Wezl-acautionarytale ok, Ask to Rick Astley to edit the video.

Redwolf Programs

May I Rick?

Ginger Industries

CMC: Find how many times a rickroll link has been posted total

pxeger

17:42

@RedwolfPrograms SQS?

Redwolf Programs

Aw, you edited it so my joke's not funny D:

wizzwizz4

@GingerIndustries 2

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger SQuare Sock, the filter bypassing system

pxeger

oh

Fmbalbuena

@GingerIndustries print("million")

pxeger

17:42

I thought it was called sock squared

Ginger Industries

As opposed to SQL, SQuare Leggings

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger It probably is, idr

I know the folder's named sqs

I don't remember what I named the actual program

Fmbalbuena

@GingerIndustries Python + pafy import pafy;print(pafy.new("https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ").viewcount)

DLosc

@Fmbalbuena But the view count on the YouTube video also includes the times that people went and watched it on purpose...

wizzwizz4

It also includes multiple people clicking the same link.

Fmbalbuena

17:47

@DLosc nvm

@wizzwizz4 nvm

pxeger

@wizzwizz4 this is spam

Fmbalbuena

@GingerIndustries Python import __future__;print(__future__.knoweverythingaboutrickrolling())

wizzwizz4

@pxeger Yeah, but it's funny to act like it's not. :-)

→ 1 message baked in the microwave

pxeger

Why isn't Smokey on top of that class of spam, if we've been getting it for a while?

@wizzwizz4 please edit to contain funny baking-related pun

Redwolf Programs

I need to find that time we got a spam answer for some like...sex chat site, and I added my usual welcome comment for answers without a proper language name

Fmbalbuena

17:53

@wizzwizz4 RO?

wizzwizz4

@Fmbalbuena I'm a network mod, not a RO.

Also, I have no good bakery puns.

les-citrons

why is the garbage sent to a bakery?

pxeger

I'm assuming being a RO doesn't give you any privileges you don't already have as a mod

@les-citrons this aspect of TNB lore has never fully be resolved

les-citrons

ah, I see

Redwolf Programs

@les-citrons Because it's butter

pxeger

17:54

but why is spam called butter in TNB?

Redwolf Programs

The reason we associate spam with butter is a good story on its own, check out the wiki page on it

I'd find a link if it wasn't blocked for me

les-citrons

the wiki page?

Redwolf Programs

We have our own wiki

les-citrons

what wiki

where is this wiki

pxeger

Aug 23 '21 at 13:46, by exedraj

nobody asked for it, but there's a TNB wikia

les-citrons

17:56

oh no, fandom

Ginger Industries

oh

Redwolf Programs

Look for the page on "Butter"

pxeger

Dec 22 '15 at 22:34, by New Sandboxed Posts

HELLO I AM BOT FEED ME BUTTER

les-citrons

I am now viewing the "butter" article

pxeger

I thought there would be more to it than that

Ginger Industries

17:57

:/

wizzwizz4

@pxeger It didn't used to. Lately, the situation has become more complicated.

pxeger

oh?

wizzwizz4

There aren't any RO powers that are impossible to emulate with mod powers, though, I don't think.

pxeger

Wait IIRC mods can change ROs at will, so you could just make yourself a RO and get unlimited power

wizzwizz4

Unless the room has the “don't allow that” flag set.

About two years ago (!! doesn't time fly?) the company decided that we had too many network moderators for the “you have free reign, just don't ruin everything” policy to work properly.

When mods disagree with each other, and they all have mod powers…

Ginger Industries

18:00

anyone working on codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/240669/108218?

wizzwizz4

That challenge is computationally intractable.

Ginger Industries

what

wizzwizz4

It's very easy to come up with an encoding methods that nobody will ever be able to crack.

les-citrons

that is quite true

pxeger

That's not very interesting for the cop either though, so I think it's not really a problem

DLosc

18:04

@pxeger Huh, I didn't realize it went back that far

wizzwizz4

Oh, phew. There are (at least) four other people in the room who were around back then. (I had begun to feel old!)

Wezl - a cautionary tale

do I count as an old-timer if I'm multiple year old?

Ginger Industries

@wizzwizz4 I made sure that mine is crackable

after screwing up the first one so it wasn't

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale It's probably subjective and depends on whom you ask.

Wezl - a cautionary tale

im askin evry1

DLosc

18:17

lyxal's been here almost 4 years (really??) and he's still a newcomer to me

Wezl - a cautionary tale

I joined 2 years ago but I've only been active maybe a bit more than 1, so I feel new but I'll be sure to remind people of my age whenever it's convenient :P

wizzwizz4

I still think of myself as a newcomer.

But most of the people who were here when I joined have now left.

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc That seems... wrong, lyxal is a newbie to me too :P

Redwolf Programs

Well, the time you've has your account != the time you've been active

I mean I made my first CGCC account six years ago

wizzwizz4

To be fair, the past couple of years have been weird.

Redwolf Programs

18:29

But all I did was read some HNQs and some stuff on meta

caird coinheringaahing

Huh, lyxal joined 2 days before my 1 year anniversary on the site :P

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms That's a good point. I researched far enough to see that lyxal's first answer was posted in November 2018, but now I looked again and saw that his second answer wasn't till May 2019.

Wheat Wizard

I was active every day for the first two years after I first joined the site.

caird coinheringaahing

I got substantially more active in 2020/2021

DLosc

Huh--my first five code-golf answers were in five different languages.

Redwolf Programs

18:33

I wonder what my first answer was...

They were all answers to my own KotHs lol

DLosc

@DLosc Python 2, Perl, QBasic, Python 3, and sed

Redwolf Programs

Well, I wonder what my first code-golf answer was

caird coinheringaahing

My yearly rep rankings were 49th, 67th, 58th, 11th then 1st

Redwolf Programs

Found it

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@DLosc probably mine too

pxeger

18:36

codegolf.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/63668

Should I reject this and instead make optimisation a synonym of optimization?

wizzwizz4

@pxeger I see no reason to reject it.

But a synonym is probably a good idea.

DLosc

@Wezl-acautionarytale Looks like your first two were both in shortC, unfortunately. But there certainly is a lot of diversity after that!

pxeger

Or, rather, can someone with a score of 5 make the synonym?

caird coinheringaahing

That should be approved, and the synonym isn't a bad idea

Wezl - a cautionary tale

@DLosc time to edit :P

pxeger

18:37

Wait, now I should have a score of 5 in that tag

caird coinheringaahing

Technically it can't be suggested, as the optimisation tag no longer exists

Wezl - a cautionary tale

what do you call the about section in chat profiles? the bio?

pxeger

ugh, it's 5 answer score

@cairdcoinheringaahing that's why I wanted to reject the edit - because I thought the tag had to exist in order to suggest it

caird coinheringaahing

Suggested

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well, no, the roomba hasn't run yet

caird coinheringaahing

18:40

@pxeger The rep thing with suggested edits makes me not like to reject valid edits

pxeger

you get +2 from an accepted edit, but you don't lose rep from rejected edits, do you?

caird coinheringaahing

No, you don't

But if someone makes a valid edit, imo, they deserve the +2. Rejecting it because of technicalities in the system about synonyms seems mean

user

@pxeger I like that the links to languages at the bottom are broken (they seem to be relative)

pxeger

So I've got +198 reputation today (-2 because I unaccepted an answer), and I don't seem to be gaining any more rep from more upvotes (just tested (and removed my vote) on a sock), so it seems a bit like I've repcapped, but I haven't got any more progress on Epic/Legendary

user

Oof

Ginger Industries

18:48

f

caird coinheringaahing

check codegolf.stackexchange.com/reputation

user

Feel free to accept one of my answers to your questions :P

Wheat Wizard

You can very frequently get progress towards legendary without hitting the repcap though.

caird coinheringaahing

Go to the bottom, it'll lsit the rep you gained today

Wheat Wizard

So it mostly balances out.

Redwolf Programs

18:48

thehackernews.com/2022/01/log4shell-like-critical-rce-flaw.html

pxeger

> ** rep today: 200

Redwolf Programs

JNDI-based vulnerability in another Java library

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Whoa, TIL

user

The gift that keeps on giving

pxeger

hmm

Wheat Wizard

18:49

I thought I was going to hit the rep cap today.

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Then Epic/Legendary should update at the end of the day, IIRC

Wheat Wizard

But I think my question was too hard.

pxeger

Your question is quite similar to mine, actually

caird coinheringaahing

@WheatWizard The fact that bounties contribute towards Legendary, but not the repcap make it a lot easier

Wheat Wizard

@pxeger Yeah I noticed. I hadn't read your's until after I had posted mine though :)

Yours sort of paradoxically has a much more restrictive IO format, but also an easier one.

Wezl - a cautionary tale

18:52

> rep cap was reached via rep from upvotes *only* on 1 days
earned at least 200 reputation on 0 days

pxeger

@WheatWizard I wanted to allow only adjacency list, because the first step in one approach to solving it is to generate an adjacency matrix and I didn't want that to just be skipped

Wheat Wizard

I think it's worth considering that permissive IO formats can sometimes cause decision paralysis. Like it's hard to start when you have to first choose a format.

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc Also see list of hidden features and list of unlinked pages

Wheat Wizard

"earned at least 200 reputation on 97 days" there's a discrepency of 8 between this and my progress towards legendary 🤔

pxeger

> earned at least 200 reputation on 5 days

> Legendary, 4/100

caird coinheringaahing

18:56

Annotated posts if anyone wants to see what the mods have been adding notices to :P

Wheat Wizard

My descrepancy is my favour though :)

caird coinheringaahing

> rep cap was reached via rep from upvotes *only* on 57 days
earned at least 200 reputation on 57 days
Legendary - 68/150

Wheat Wizard

@cairdcoinheringaahing Woah. We don't even have a good way to track these as moderators.

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing so "notice" also includes currently active bounties

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Should be titled "StackExchange secrets REVEALED! You won't believe #8!"

caird coinheringaahing

19:00

Oh, and if anyone was wondering who the most active user in the last 60 days was, it's lyxal :P

pxeger

I've moved up that list quite a lot since I last checked it

which I think was only a few weeks ago

Ginger Industries

I'm in 20th

pxeger

Huh, a self-referential comment:

@sehe now real magic is doing it without editing! — Shadow Wizard Is Vaccinated V3 May 14 '14 at 20:18

Wheat Wizard

Ok looks like it's time to see if we can ping ourselves without edits.

pxeger

Didn't you do that once?

(if you're going to try, please go to the sandbox)

Wheat Wizard

19:05

@WheatWizard I did it here in 1 try.

caird coinheringaahing

Oh nice, I have no declined flags from the past week

Wheat Wizard

Same!

Ginger Industries

brb

pxeger

@pxeger I love relative URLs solely because it means I can write the chat sandbox link quickly because its ID 1 is easy to remember

@cairdcoinheringaahing I have quite a lot of progress towards Marshal compared to other users of similar vintage and/or rep, and I think that's because I'm religious in flagging comments as No Longer Needed

0 declined comment flags :)

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Pff, I have no declined flags from ever, beat that!*

* Mainly because I have a total of 19 flags

Redwolf Programs

19:08

I have two declined flags, one because I used the wrong flag type and one because a mod disagreed something was invalid

Most of my flags are spam or no longer needed, though

caird coinheringaahing

I have 5 declined flags

One spam flag got declined cause I flagged this off-topic post as spam

pxeger

I have 9, and most of them are just because I used the wrong flag

DLosc

@pxeger Oh, interesting. I typically just delete my own and don't worry about it if the other person doesn't delete theirs. Should I flag instead (if it's been a couple days)?

pxeger

if I delete mine, I always immediately flag the other person's

caird coinheringaahing

I have a 97.3% helpful flag rate here :P

pxeger

19:10

and if I notice someone else has deleted theirs, I always delete mine

hyper-neutrino

i have a flag declined for not using standard flags

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino mod abuse it into a disputed flag :P

hyper-neutrino

thing is that user had posted the exact same thing already so i was flagging hoping additional action would be taken on top of just deleting it as NAA but

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

pxeger

@pxeger (7 declined and 2 disputed)

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Title: Perfect words Introduction A perfect word, as defined by me, is a word where the sum of the position in the alphabet of each letter in the word is perfectly divisible by the total length of the word. For example, abcb is a perfect word because 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 8, and 8 / 4 = 2. Your task Gi...

pxeger

19:12

> "violates <standard loophole>" - declined - "Answer predates the loophole"

I don't like this policy

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing :P anyway i don't think i can? even if i wanted to, which i don't, i believe you can only do that to red flags

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger I believe The fifth Marshal said they got the badge mainly for flagging those comments

Ginger Industries

@pxeger but it does make sense

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah, that would make sense to me

119/500 here

Ginger Industries

@SandboxPosts thoughts?

caird coinheringaahing

19:13

As much as I like the Global Flag Summary userscript, man does it take ages

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino "While we appreciate your attempt to create a Canadian flag for us, you've used the wrong colour of red for the maple leaf. Regretfully, we shall have to decline."

caird coinheringaahing

I have 1207 total helpful flags, across the network :D

98.61% helpful rate

Wheat Wizard

> Check back on this later – Wheat Wizard♦ Oct 15 '21 at 8:19 helpful - Thanks cutie. ❤️

pxeger

@pxeger I just found an answer which predates a loophole by only a couple days

@WheatWizard you can handle your own flags? lol

could you give yourself Marshal for free by doing that?

caird coinheringaahing

Mods can only get Marshal after they step down

Wheat Wizard

19:18

I think I raise more flags as mod than as not. A lot of them are just "Check on this later".

caird coinheringaahing

How do you know /404 is actually an unlinked page, rather than just a non-existent page that therefore gives a 404 error? — Mechanical snail Sep 25 '12 at 10:43

DLosc

I just saw that ^_^

emanresu A

Hm, the rickroll link in the help page isn't on ther

pxeger

"How do you know /review/user-info/8/current's 500 Error is actually a bug, rather than just a hidden page to test out the 500 Error page?"

DLosc

Three of our four questions that were greatest hits were written by Joe Z. 0_0

caird coinheringaahing

19:22

@DLosc still not sure how they determine those/the order of those

pxeger

> The current algorithm divides the number of page views with the total amount of question and answer feedback received (adding a bonus for high view counts), excluding questions with less views than the median

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger You can use this page to see how many questions there are on the site:

> 12,726 questions

pxeger

oh

so where does that 1222 figure come from then?

oh is that the median score?

caird coinheringaahing

Probably

Most questions get 1k views

Ginger Industries

19:37

̸̲̅

feedback? codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/2140/…

▁italics but not really▁

caird coinheringaahing

@GingerIndustries I'd suggest clarifying about case; will the input always be in one case, can answers choose between upper/lower case, etc.

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing good point, change made

caird coinheringaahing

Also riddeo is falsy, the sum is 55 and the length is 6

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing thanks

caird coinheringaahing

@GingerIndustries Also, this is pretty trivial, as the position in the alphabet (mod the length) is the same as the ordinal (mod the length), so this is "take ord, sum, is divisible by length"

Ginger Industries

19:50

@cairdcoinheringaahing darn

hyper-neutrino

oh, right, cuz the offset gets canceled out when you add it (len) times

interesting

caird coinheringaahing

4 bytes in Jelly for what its worth

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino Yeah, that took me a moment too

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing so does that mean that this challenge is unfit for posting?

caird coinheringaahing

Not necessarily, just that it's more trivial than it might first look

hyper-neutrino

19:53

yeah when caird mentioned that i was like, is the offset divisible by 26 or smth?

caird coinheringaahing

Trivial doesn't mean bad, but it is a factor to consider in posting challenges

Ginger Industries

wisdom

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino I realised when I did O%64S, then remembered that sum of mods is the same as mod of sums, and that the mod doesn't matter when checking divisibility

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing ah, nice. also even if the offset were divisible by 26 that wouldn't be what makes it work which i am now realizing :P

Ginger Industries

dancing-emoji.gingerindustries.repl.co/…

caird coinheringaahing

19:56

@GingerIndustries When you give a toucan coffee

Ginger Industries

I've been looking through Character Map for good things to make into emojis

pxeger

Turns out adding function composition to Whython breaks a fair number of things... github.com/attempt-this-online/languages/runs/…

Ginger Industries

ah yes, code not str

⍤

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