@cairdcoinheringaahing Actually, forget my advice and take a look at this masterful example from Mark Hamill instead. That guy is rapidly becoming one of my favorite people who happen to be actors.

This answer definitely deserves attention

Haha site read only mode go brrr

At least they were kind enough to announce it this time

It's not too bad today because I have a meeting going on during the downtime, so I can't SE anyway

wdym? meetings are the ideal time to code golf :P

@Bubbler sounds like you need glasses then :p

I'm the speaker today :/

@Bubbler how tf they gonna make you blast audio? :p

ah... well it's still possible, you just have to multitask

'latest news: all infrastructure will be immediately rewritten in Jelly!'

@Bubbler Feel free to drop a link to that in chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/123200/cgcc-blog-chat so that we can add it to the net underappreciated posts section

ಠ_ಠ Maintenance?

Is it just me or does this feel like an Undertale final boss theme:

youtube.com/watch?v=6vJwwRUtwMw

Feels like, if you lived in Scott Pilgrim vs The World, and instead of Gideon being the bad guy, it's lyxal :P

It's really weird that SE chat doesn't go immediately off but has hiccups (trying to post something twice and second one always fails)

^

@lyxal You gotta breathe from the diaphragm, that's how you get volume ;)

but like how tf they gonna blast rick astley out of Bubbler?

> I'm the speaker today :/

that means they're using Bubbler to play sound ;p

hopefully they'd use wireless technology

They make those speakers that use a table as the cone or whatever, just put one of those on your leg or chest or something

@lyxal thats_the_joke.jpg

They can blast Rick Astley out of Bubbler as long as Bubbler remembers to breathe and has a nice baritone

awesomeopensource.com/projects/esoteric-language

^ how the hell did dinoux get into that list?

and theres no jelly

wtf is Modiscript

politics

for whatever reason extended jelly tips is on it

@hyper-neutrino ooooof

the jelly repo has no tags which might have prevented it from being detected

@hyper-neutrino oh

Hmm, just fell upon this esolang. Wonder how that fits within CGCC's policy. I'm sort of curious now where the limits are with explicit stuff in SE, but not curious enough to do the research. Does anyone know?

Wow. It has 1.4k stars on Github. I'm really surprised; I've never heard of it. Has anyone else?

I've heard of it a few times, but I think it's more of a joke language

IMO it's borderline, but I don't think it's explicit enough to not be allowed

Hello

Hi!

It's been an hour since I got online...

Now I have my chemistry exam. H20

i think fetlang would probably fall under fairly legitimate use of language i'd otherwise try to remove just because it's just barely under the limit of too explicit to be unconditionally unacceptable

i would still rather people not use it because there's no real reason to and i don't want to debate the semantics of what's "acceptable enough" especially since it's so subjective, and deal with how it might affect the site image and users' experiences on this site

^ very cool 64

But I might be about to lose that streak..

who gets it first

my chemistry exam is going to start

Me, if I don't lose the strak.

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced What sort of chemistry?

@RedwolfPrograms you think my chemistry is divided

@emanresuA What, your first gold isn't fanatic?!

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced 36 days before I can greet you with this message

@RedwolfPrograms i have like basic stuff: elements chemical reactions valencies, electrovalent and covalent bonding and isotopes

@Bubbler I may have spent a month getting Electorate because I wanted a shiny new badge...

> Note: 2021-10-01 04:00Z - Maintenance is complete. We didn't finish all the tasks and will schedule another maintenance window soon. Thank you for your patience!

> another maintenance window soon

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Lol I think we're taking roughly the same chemitry class this year then

RAAARRGGHHH

@RedwolfPrograms which grade are you in?

That means another day without SE >:(

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced 10th

@RedwolfPrograms oh

well i got the mcqs

@RedwolfPrograms As my maths teacher says, chemistry is just applied physics, which is applied maths.

and biology is applied chemistry

so everything is math

And sociology is applied psychology is applied biology :p

What's programming then?

@RedwolfPrograms (that's from an xkcd, don't bother starring it :p)

Too late

@emanresuA is applied electronics is applied physics is applied math

everything is just math

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced do y'all not even have like a slight division between organic and inorganic

like for us they're the same class but at least we do mention the difference and talk about them somewhat separately

@hyper-neutrino no i am 9th

at least as far as i remember

oh i don't remember grade 9 science lol

wait do you have chemistry as its own class or just science

At my school it's biology in 9th, chemistry in 10th, and physics in 11th

Then you either take an AP variant of one of those in 12th, or earth and space science

(You can take Physics I AP in 11th without taking Physics first, though)

oh that's interesting. here we have grade 9 and 10 as just science joined together, then grade 11 and 12 splits into bio, chem, phys, and earth&space science

and you can take "pre-AP" for the grade 9/10 ones which prepares you for the AP 11/12 ones

grade 6th splitted science

Ours were called pre-ap up until last year

When college board started getting mad at people for using that without paying license fees

So now it's just "Advanced" :p

lol

i was in a full-time enrichment class after grade 5 so i didn't even have a split science class; pretty much half of our subjects were merged into just one large class, except like phys ed, french, and art in grade 7/8

that class was pretty fun cuz of the people there but i learned like nothing in the last two years lol (nothing from the class that is; i learned a whole lot of math and programming outside of school tho)

Even in middle school we had somewhat distinct types of science in each year

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced because I don't think Jelly is tagged esolang on github

@RedwolfPrograms 6th was physics and space related stuff (very basic obviously), 7th was biology and environmental science, and 8th was chemistry and some other random stuff

Computer science is half math and half applied math. Computer engineering (which includes programming) is half applied math, half applied electronics, half applied psychology

I just realised - Vyxal is becoming stack-based APL.

how so

All languages that automap arithmetic operations converge to something APL-like

It's called Iverson ghost

More just the half prac-lang, half golf-lang thing.

here the only thing we really split across grades is like geography and history between grade 9 and 10; outside of that, i think mostly you have the same stuff per grade distributed out, so instead of a year focusing on one thing, all years spread out focus across all things (until they split in higher grades but that's in parallel)

@emanresuA Any golfing language becomes somewhat practical if you're used to it

@emanresuA ok but vyxal has golfing as part of its main design philosophy

APL is purely practical (it just happens to be really short)

I really don't think Vyxal can be claimed to be anything close to practical

agreed; it is a golfing lang with aspects of traditional practical langs

like the repo description itself says :p

We're adding OOP, and we have functions, variables, and loops.

@hyper-neutrino what tags does it have?

Wh...why

microwaving a rock does not make it food

@lyxal none

@RedwolfPrograms because it's always been a design goal of mine

What does that even mean?

@hyper-neutrino nvm I can't read

@hyper-neutrino forget where i saw this but i love this quote

What's the point of OOP, a famously boilerplate-filled and annoyingly long programming practice, in a language designed to be short

@emanresuA adding extra components from other design philosophies does not make vyxal not a golfing language with added bells and whistles

> with aspects of traditional practical langs

that doesn't mean you have to add every aspect in existence

Pip is considerably closer to existing practical languages but I definitely wouldn't call it practical

So Vyxal's even farther toward Reacreational

for example, named functions, if-else blocks like vyxal's, and its looping structure are, IMO, good integrations of traditional aspects into a golfing language and are very well-designed

they obviously draw inspiration from existing practical languages rather than golfing ones, yet are still concise, can be reasonable used in golfing contexts, and still fit within a golfing paradigm

@hyper-neutrino i am not the one making the lang

never said you were

> that doesn't mean you have to add every aspect in existence

ah. just english things

oh well that might be plural

i don't usually remember to say "one" when talking in english but "you" doesn't necessarily mean you the reader specifically

You can be used to refer to someone in general, like "you should eat fruits and vegetables often"

To me, if one were to design a truly practical golflang, it should have a verbose ASCII-only format and a binary golfy one that compiles from the verbose one

@RedwolfPrograms because I'd like to have the option to use vyxal outside of code golf for more practical stuff

^

Seems like a weird idea for a language that advertises itself first and foremost as "terse" :p

When you waste code page spaces on OOP :p

We were thinking about rewriting Vyxal in Vyxal, at least partially. The main problem was performance :p

@Bubbler charcoal?

@RedwolfPrograms We don't, really. It's mostly going to be digraphs

@RedwolfPrograms oh you're thinking we're adding it as single byte stuff

Nah

Yes, Charcoal is one

i am still not sure OOP is really necessary to achieving that but hey, i am in no position to say how you should or shouldn't design your language; as long as you (specifically lyxal) like it

@emanresuA i got ninja'd

@lyxal well you still need to consume space in your set of character sequences

Seems kinda kitchen sinky though

there are more than enough digraphs available in a 256-byte codepage tho lol, not like any golfing language is gonna run out of them soon

@hyper-neutrino lol they'd just be miscellaneous digraphs

Also, if you want a self-hosted language, you eventually need a way to compile it into a fast representation (machine code or some kind of bytecode)

We're... sorta working on that

CMC: Write a BF interpreter in this :P

@RedwolfPrograms A kitchen sink including cups of cold Java, plates with Jelly, and corn Husks :p

@RedwolfPrograms you, uh, looking for a new kitchen sink? Because this is the second day in a row you've mentioned kitchen sinks

Not that there's anything wrong with that

But it just seems odd

:p

No, it's just that Dinoux and Vyxal both seem to be moving that direction in some ways :p

I mean we could always use a sink in The Nineteenth Bakery, so keep going if you want :p

@RedwolfPrograms And a Chef.

@RedwolfPrograms it's always been a long term goal of mine to have classes

Didn't Pyth have those?

Or was it GS

Also, classes will make package managing way easier once we get to that

Package managing?

Oh no it got worse :p

CMQ: What's the font size in your editor set to?

Usually 12px for me, but experimenting with 10px

@RedwolfPrograms vypi

default 14 but currently on 15... for some reason? idk

@RedwolfPrograms sure, it's a little extraneous, but it doesn't hurt to have

@RedwolfPrograms 14-22

This sounds less like a golfing language that takes inspiration from practical languages, and more like two people with totally different visions that got stuck in the same person's brain :p

@RedwolfPrograms (I'm on 768p which is why I need a smaller font size)

Package manager is something even APL has never got to, so good luck with that :P

Also, progress on the ranking system is going well. Should have deduplication working by tomorrow.

After that, language classification/hiererarchy stuff, then the actual ranking process

@RedwolfPrograms i was thinking of module imports for dinoux

@RedwolfPrograms look, I'll be the first to admit that classes inside a golfing language aren't that useful (I barely use classes in other languages like python yet alone in a language with terseness as a primary goal). But I still think having classes would be cool and something fun/unconventional

> I barely use classes in other languages like python yet alone in a language with terseness as a primary goal

wat

@lyxal Seems like you should be trying to advertise Vyxal more for the fun/unconventional aspect rather than "terse. elegant. readable."

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced as in, I barely define classes in python

Classes are overrated

@RedwolfPrograms the primary goal is still golfing, classes are just a nice addition

@RedwolfPrograms Since "terse" seems to be less important than it is with more conventional golfing languages, "elegant" is questionable when you combine two paradigms in that way, and "readable" is a terrible measure for comparing golfing languages

Vyxal's cool because it's a bit different from the rest of the golfing languages, and it's easier to pick up as evidenced by it's massive growth (especially among newer users).

@RedwolfPrograms sounds like you'd be interested in joining our public relations team :p

Something like "different. friendly. short." seems like it'd be a better list of adjectives to go with :p

Although there's probably better synonyms to use

@RedwolfPrograms Well why didn't you suggest this before the community ads were locked in :p

Anyway, it's kinda late here so o/

'night

o/

o'

"different" might interfere with Apple :P

lol

well i am done with my chemistry MCQs

goodjob

well i will be back in 2 hrs to write my written

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced pi * 10

4

(generated by dice roll, lol I'm so random)

@lyxal oh yeah

wait its 100pi

@RedwolfPrograms 16–22, but occasionally smaller for a broad view or larger for demo purposes.

dang, my free openai credits expired

now I have to write text for my assignment myself

:(

No more GPT-3...

not from me at least

@AaronMiller How many openai credits do you have left?

time to go apply for a new trial with a new email kekw

but I still have unlimited access to codex tho

@lyxal the neat thing about DuckDuckGo's email protection thing is that it gives you infinite email addresses you can manage from a single inbox

@lyxal how?

also my written is about to start

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced codex is free

The other text gen models aren't

ah shoot you should be 18 yrs to join waitlist

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced *laughs in being older than that*

@lyxal 19??

Oneplus 18?

close enough

20

well the exam started

glhf

k bye

/o/

thank you vs code for inserting 5 closing tags for address when I just wanted 5 <br/>

<address>
Line 1 </address>
Line 2 </address>
..
</address>

that's what it gave me when I tried to use multiple cursors at once

very cool

When tag autoclosing goes aggressive :P

Meanwhile I'm independently working on a rating script

Do you mean language golfing rating?

yes

How does it work?

I'm planning to parse the data, collect into some json files, and invoke this

Cool! How are you going to deal with, say, Vyxal vs Vyxal 1.3 vs Vyxal D ?

or even Vyxal 2.3.1 vs Vyxal 2.3.2

I'm simply discarding flags and (also likely) version numbers

Python 2 vs Python 3 is quite different tho

Not that different in terms of golfiness

True - 2 is generally slightly golfier in situations where the method is easily portable or can use `...`, 3 is golfier when you're using features not in 2.

1 sucks.

Also might eventually write down all language names by hand and collect slight variations into the canonical ones

You could just parse the version number and get rid of it unless it's in a specified list of languages.

i am now in the process of submitting

the exam was hard

I wish my handwriting was better :/

@Bubbler This is the socialist agenda :P

hello all

I am trying to read some CS lecture notes but am totally confused. Any CS/maths people in?

@Anush Yes

@m90 slide 10 of cs.columbia.edu/~andoni/F15_AlgoTechMassiveData/files/… has a line starting "Chebyshev"

OK

but what on Earth does it mean? First Chebyshev's inequality gives an upper bound for probability and second, where does the square root come from?

there is no square root in Chebyshev's inequality

@Anush Square root of the variance, to get the standard deviation.

@m90 The variance is \frac {t} {k} \left( \binom {n} {3} - t\right) for this problem

I hope that is readable

how do you get that line from the variance?

@Anush As written above, the variance is bounded above by M/k*T.

yes

I agree the variance is bounded above by M/k*T.

how do you get from that to a statement about the standard deviation?

The standard deviation is the square root of the variance. Thus the standard deviation is at most √(M/k*T).

yes

but I don't see how you get an inequality in terms of the standard deviation

chebyshev doesn't seem to give you that

but I am probably wrong

It looks like Lean is our new LOTM, and I'm guessing the OP isn't active to write up the post.

Does one of the brave souls who always seems to effortless write stuff for things like this want to? Let the Fire Nation attack @cairdcoinheringaahing @hyper-neutrino @RedwolfPrograms @Bubbler @DLosc!

Am I forgetting anyone who writes stuff?

@Anush It looks like that statement (|R-T|≤O(√(MT/k))) is true with arbitrarily large probability (but not 1), with the constant of the big O depending on the probability needed.

Hey... pureferret. Long time no see!

@m90 how do you show that?

oh I see what you mean.

@m90 thank you

thanks so much

@m90 it's a terrible bound :)

If there isn't one by tomorrow, I'll post it (if anyone else wants to do so, let me know and I'll be happy for you to do it)

Don't we switch at UTC?

Yes, but it doesn't need to be done at the exact time the month switches

So long as it's done on the first couple of days, it's fine. If anyone posts any Lean answers before then, just make a mental note to edit them in once the post goes up

Ok.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Lean!

How would you remove the gap from that image?

preferably from the command line :)

I know you can do it in gimp but I like code

@Anush use Pillow?

interesting... you mean in python?

@Anush yes

let me see how hard this is going to be

seems like the easiest thing will be to just use an image editor

CMC remove the gap from the image I pasted above in your favorite language. This must be done in code.

@cairdcoinheringaahing yes I am sure you are right.

but it will be more fun to do in code

@emanresuA About $4 USD

Didn't we have a feed for deadlineless bounties?

I was about to say "you should probably link to the LoTM post" until I remembered there isn't a LoTM post

oh hey redwolf

don't mind us having a very active conversation rn

@Bubbler It's a bit slow, as least compared to the butter powered bots :P

@Bubbler Why use ELO?

If you've got the opportunity to use something better anyway

@Bubbler I've got a hierarchy system where Python 2.7 would be separate from Python 2, but any Python 2.7 answers would count as both (same with Python 2 and Python)

Oh hey lyxal

Morning

yeah took you long enough to notice me senpai

smh ;p

I was reading the transcript :p

We're now 5/6 of the way from 29900 to 30k

This is getting pretty intense

this.intensity++

actually, that should probably be this->intensity++

because pointers and stuff

No it's fine, the universe probably uses JS

That explains why bad things happen to good people

JS does not care

It wants you to die

@lyxal (*this).intensity++ if you're not a coward

See, if someone posts a message saying "We now have 30k starred messages", it''s going to get starred. But, do you post that when there's 29999 (what if it doesn't get starred), or when there's 30000 (so there'd almost immediately be 30001)?

but what if the 30kth starred message is deep in the transcript and y'all never know?

You post it at 29999 and hope for stars, and if it's not starred you wait for something else to get starred then people star it at 30k fr fr

@lyxal I developed a bot that would star something far back immediately after 29999 but I'm too much of a coward to use it

OTOH, having the ability to clear stars, I could just 12 it so that it becomes (and stays) the 30k one :P

mfer how you gonna clear stars from the transcript

chat API

I've done it before

anyhow, before I go, I just wanted to say that I thought today was Saturday, so I went and changed my main bio joke, went to change my chat bio meme and realised I didn't have to struggle to think of a meme for the week today and that I get to struggle tomorrow

so meme song suggestions for my chat bio tomorrow are appreciated

and with that, it's that time of day when people like me should get off the internet and obtain sleep

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\o (thank you to everyone who's arms I stole)

(very cool)

/o

o

(lyxal stole my arms)

Wow he literally did. That's so sad.

@lyxal aren't you older (:p)

LotM still needs added as an event

will do when i get to my computer

@lyxal That's why I use GPT-3 for my chat bio memes

@RedwolfPrograms Elo-MMR isn't what you know by plain Elo. It's the best known system for multiplayer competitions

Ah

wait does the LotM post even exist?

doesn't look like it

I just got an idea for an esolang that is a cross between brainfuck and Hexagony

@Bubbler Nope. I'm just not fanatical enough.

hi

hi

hi!

tio.run/##K/v/39AgU0s60rLg/38A

> Also I am a sock of someone :P

me?

wow, I didn't know plates could have such talented socks

who is milk lol

plates don't even have feet!

ok night o/

@AaronMiller TFW you outgolf your own sockpuppet

who said anything about sockpuppets?

@AaronMiller yes

i am a nice sock

made of cloth

cotton to be specific

well brownie points to anyone who guesses my real ownere :)))))

niko?

is he online?

> seen 1m ago

oh wait he is

lol

@DLosc However, I have done a lot of code golf, I've cast a lot of votes, and I once wrote a solution that people liked a lot better than the accepted answer (possibly because it included a picture).

@milk is u pvc?

@milk me!

o

it's ok guys, mystery solved, I own milk

got milk?

(i had to)

I need some milk

@pxeger Now I kinda want to create a sock account so I can name it AlmondMilk

> milk me!

uh