The Nineteenth Byte

rak1507

00:00

oh crap, it is! I should go to bed

Catija

I'm guessing the site isn't without risks? Could people theoretically use TIO to send and execute malicious code or are there things that prevent that?

caird coinheringaahing

And I'm stressed (that feels like the wrong word, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) about the fact that tomorrow, I'm essentially starting a completely new stage in my life

@Catija All code is sandboxed

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing Uni? Good luck, I hope you enjoy it

Catija

I don't know what that means. Haha

hyper-neutrino

basically code that could cause damage gets restricted :p

Catija

00:01

@cairdcoinheringaahing congrats 🎉

caird coinheringaahing

The output is limited to 128k, and execution is executed after 1min. No harmful code can be run, no internet access, etc.

Thanks @Catija @rak1507 :D

hyper-neutrino

(IIRC the output limit is a client-side QOL consideration?)

also congrats caird :D

caird coinheringaahing

No, I think it's limited as you can brick the servers, right?

hyper-neutrino

~~you should be stressed~~ i'm joking, hope you'll enjoy it :p

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing I doubt it? Maybe

hyper-neutrino

00:02

@cairdcoinheringaahing probably with enough output. there of course has to be some limit but IIRC setting the limit at this particular number was to avoid bricking the browser

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Try it online!

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino no, you're no JoKing.

Catija

Ah. Cool. I figured there'd be things in place to keep it safe. Just figured that if SO was thinking about supporting the project, we'd want to make sure it is safe. 🙂

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino You're hyper-neutrino

caird coinheringaahing

That's the classic "delete everything" command, just as an example :P

hyper-neutrino

00:03

@lyxal incorrect

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino then who are you?

caird coinheringaahing

@lyxal ~~pretty sure hyper-neutrino is Alex~~ :P

hyper-neutrino

@lyxal no

i simply am not

lyxal

ah

caird coinheringaahing

CMP: How comfortable are you with your name (first, full, surname, whatever) being shared on CGCC/TNB?

lyxal

00:04

no.

Adám

afaict, one can easily hog the TIO servers, causing a (not very D)DoS.

@cairdcoinheringaahing Very.

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing moderately: I wouldn't actively share it but I don't take (m)any steps to hide it, and if it was raised somehow I probably wouldn't protest

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing I, Alexander Liao, am very uncomfortable sharing my name and would never put it on my website or anything like that.

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think I draw the line at my surname, but I have no issue with people calling me either of the first names I use IRL

> LinkedIn

Guess I know where to go to hire staff if I ever start Jelly Inc. :P

hyper-neutrino

lol

Catija

00:07

No one knows who I am. 🤣

hyper-neutrino

oh i need to update that, i'm not employed anymore cuz my co-op term ended

rak1507

aww, I opened linkedin and saw I had a message and got all excited, but it was an automated message :(

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija I think you work at a tech firm, right? :P

Catija

Something like that.

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing hopefully when you have mid-semester breaks, they are actually during the middle of the semester, and not after the middle of semester ;p

caird coinheringaahing

00:08

(as an aside, is SE a "tech firm"?)

Adám

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'd say yes. They sell SaaS.

Bubbler

@cairdcoinheringaahing No real problems, but I'd just prefer to be known as my username online

Adám

@Bubbler IRL?

Catija

I don't know what our classification would be.

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fun fact: none of the three names I have listed in my profile are remotely close to anything resembling my legal names :P

hyper-neutrino

00:09

i find it awkward for people to address me by my actual name here just because there is like, no actual reason to, i guess :p it doesn't make me uncomfortable it's just that i have a username for a reason

rak1507

^

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing oh, oops, i thought caird coinheringaahing was your legal name

Catija

I've met up with people in person and still gone by Catija

caird coinheringaahing

If someone called me Jay or Chloe here, I'd want to know why they chose to call me that over caird tbh :P

lyxal

I've lowkey thought of making Lyxal a legal alias of mine one day

Catija

00:10

Anyway, my answer to Rosie's post on MSE covers how I feel.

caird coinheringaahing

I wouldn't have an issue with it (duh, I invite people to do so), but I'd be curious

Catija

@lyxal you can do that?

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Yeah, I'm rereading that (the whole thread), which I why I asked :)

lyxal

@Catija I'm pretty sure people are allowed to register aliases

Catija

In the US?

lyxal

00:11

I'm in Australia

Catija

Ah.

caird coinheringaahing

If they can't, how else do the police say "Suspect is called Bob, alias The Godfather" on them cop shows? :P

rak1507

@lyxal How can you be in Australia when it isn't real? Checkmate.

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'd feel weird about someone here calling me by my full name, but it's on my GitHub account, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hyper-neutrino

thing is you can decide after only sticking to pseudonyms to use your real identity but i can't decide to retract knowledge of my identity :p i can ask people not to discuss it but people who know will already know and that's something i considered when deciding not to conceal who i am online

Catija

00:12

Those aren't necessarily legal aliases.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija But the TV told me something, so clearly it must be entirely true :P

lyxal

Wow I thought SE was strict on username changes...our government only allows you to change names every 12 months (rather than 30 days here) and only 3 times ;p

hyper-neutrino

well changing legal names has slightly more impact than just your online username :p

@hyper-neutrino TBH, if i could change that decision retroactively, i would, but i don't regret it

Catija

I think I could set up a legal entity but I don't know whether it'd be considered a legal alias in the same way.

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino See, something I find especially interesting about people revealing their names (and especially locations) is that I'm more than open to meeting strangers I've met on the internet IRL, and locations allow me to go "Oh, I'm going to be in <city> next week, would you like to meet up?"

lyxal

00:14

@lyxal then I suppose it'd have to be an actual name change

which I've also considered lol

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino Same, pretty much

caird coinheringaahing

For example, I think my uni offers Waterloo as a year abroad (which my degree includes), so if I decided to chose it for that year abroad, I'd almost definitely suggest meeting up :P

Catija

I'm planning to visit my mom in England next year and will likely let people know when if they want to hang out.

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing if you do end up coming to waterloo, you should definitely let me know so we can meet up sometime lol

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija I'm flattered by the offer, but I suspect I'll be far too busy ;P

@hyper-neutrino I'm probably going to go to somewhere in the US/Europe, rather the Canada, but I'll keep that in mind :P

Catija

00:17

It'll likely be during spring break here (mid March)

hyper-neutrino

fair enough, nobody comes to canada intentionally anyway, we just somehow appear here /s

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing What are you studying again?

caird coinheringaahing

Maths

DLosc

Ayyyy

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino My grandad lives in Canada, so I have an excuse :P

rak1507

00:18

oh no that reminds me that I was going to do personal statement things today/yesterday

hyper-neutrino

the same grandfather that gave you pot brownies in whistler or smth like that?

caird coinheringaahing

Yep :P

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Do you have an area of maths that you're especially interested in, or just planning to see what grabs your interest?

Adám

@Catija Aw, to bad. I'm planning on moving from England to Denmark before the end of the year.

(I've had two people from here come visit me by my home, so far.)

caird coinheringaahing

Me and Leaky?

Adám

00:20

Yes, and for everyone: If you want to see me in London, now is the time!

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc Sort of both

rak1507

@Adám It's probably unlikely I'll be in london until next year, shame

caird coinheringaahing

^^^ is well worth it, Adám's homemade picnic food is really good :P

hyper-neutrino

there is one SE user who i've talked to once or twice who lives in waterloo; i happened to come across him while following a chat flag

otherwise i don't think i know anyone online who is close enough to me IRL :p

Catija

@Adám aww. Moving is fun though. Sorta.

hyper-neutrino

00:22

moving is fun but the moving part isn't fun. if that makes sense (it doesn't)

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc I know what areas of maths interest me now (calculus/analysis, abstract algebra, number theory kind of) and what I dislike (stats and physical maths), but I have no idea if that'll continue through a degree

I was introduced to the site by someone I know IRL :P

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing at all interested in cryptography?

caird coinheringaahing

No

:P

rak1507

aw, was going to recommend cryptohack.org it's very good

hyper-neutrino

for UW math you declare what major you'll take at the end of the first year since the courses in the first year are the same for everyone; is that sort of similar to how it'll be working for you too if you haven't decided which area you want yet?

Bubbler

00:23

I'm roughly equally far away from US, EU, and Australia :/

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ no idea

DLosc

@hyper-neutrino Now I have this image of you chasing a literal flag through the streets of a city and bumping into someone who turns out to be a StackExchange user

Catija

@hyper-neutrino it does, though. The work of moving isn't particularly fun but being somewhere new is.

caird coinheringaahing

They don;t give us a lot of info about the course before hand

lyxal

@cairdcoinheringaahing I would assume the areas of maths that interest you the most would be the ones that allow to you to outgolf everyone on math challenges ;p

caird coinheringaahing

00:24

Not at all :P

hyper-neutrino

@Bubbler so if we do decide to have a CGCC meet-up we should all go to where bubbler lives to distribute travel distance :P

@DLosc that is exactly what happened

@Catija yeah, that's what i meant, glad you understood my very un-descriptive wording :D lol

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, if you try to pin down my maths interests from my answers/challenges, I'd imagine you'd think I'm far more interested in sequences than I really am :P

lyxal

@DLosc that's what happens when any flag is raised; the nearest moderator is summoned to chase it down :p

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing have you talked to the math community at all? I think some of the mods are in the UK.

Adám

@Catija Eh, not really exciting any more. I've moved so many times in my life. Probably 20–30 times.

rak1507

00:26

@cairdcoinheringaahing you mean you don't spend your free time reading random OEIS sequences?

caird coinheringaahing

...

Catija

@Adám Wow. That's a lot. For work?

caird coinheringaahing

I do, but not because I'm especially interested in sequences :P

rak1507

lol

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija I have some rep over on Math.SE and MO, but tbch, I don't like the SE model of interaction

That's poorly worded; I typically dislike interacting on SE sites except for here and MSE

Adám

00:27

@Catija No, I think I've only moved once (or maybe twice, considering the perspective) for work. Everything else was for personal reasons. Including running from the police. I've had a short, but exciting, life.

Catija

In the US, I'd guess that someone who had moved so much grew up with parents in the military.

Adám

My mother quit the military before she married my father. And he never served.

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing you like chat. They chat a lot.

caird coinheringaahing

I don't like the Math chat rooms :P

Catija

Hahaha.

DLosc

00:28

@cairdcoinheringaahing Cool. I liked calculus and analysis too, and disliked stats. My favorite class was Chaos and Fractals, though. Pretty pictures... O.O

caird coinheringaahing

In fact, I outright refuse to step in whenever a flag is raised in a math room :P

Catija

Which is frequently.

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah :/

@DLosc Not really a fan of chaos theory. It's too ...inelegant for me

Catija

Though... less so recently, I think?

caird coinheringaahing

Don't think there have been many flags recently (don't think I can see the history/stats)

Adám

00:30

@Catija Not exactly "new". This time, I'm moving back to my family, to the place I grew up. Haven't lived there for 8 years, and then I only lived there a little over half a year. Before that, I hadn't lived there for 14 years…

Catija

@Adám ah! Well that can be nice if you've been missing them.

caird coinheringaahing

Probably my favourite thing about maths is that a lot of it is, for a lack of a better word, elegant. It all fits together, makes sense, is completely clear and objective. I dislike areas of maths that don't fit that (e.g. in stats, you can make data say anything you want, it's entirely subjective)

Adám

@Catija Yeah, I've not seen them for >1.5 years due to COVID-19.

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Fair. I discovered that I usually like math best when I can visualize it in some way. Like, there were some things in Complex Analysis that I couldn't wrap my head around, but when it came to the concept that lines are just circles with infinite radius, that immediately made sense.

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing yeah same I'm taking stats this year and so far I'm not a big fan, it seems to be a lot of plugging numbers into a calculator + looking things up in tables and not a lot of actual 'maths'

Catija

00:32

For a while I was watching the vsauce2 channel and it seems really neat how he can illustrate concepts like probability that don't make sense on the surface but after he explains the math, it's clear.

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing I had similar issues with Combinatorics. There are about six different ways to approach the problem, and they're all supposed to be equivalent, but I try them and get three different answers, so I must have done something wrong, but I don't know which one I did wrong and which one I did right...

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija I've always disliked that, when working through probability problems, it never feels right

Catija

At one point someone recommended that I consider going into actuarial studies.

caird coinheringaahing

I know that maths behind what I do, but it just feels ...wrong. The stuff I like doing always feels right :P

@Catija Career paths are the weirdest, most unpredictable things I've ever seen :P

Catija

Also, anthropology.

I guess I'm went with the latter.

caird coinheringaahing

00:38

@cairdcoinheringaahing Thinking about this a bit more: I find this genuinely interesting. I enjoy spending time on this site, both posting, moderating (in the 10k sense, not diamond) and chatting. There's no other site on the network I enjoy interacting with in the same way. I really dislike asking/answering elsewhere, except for MSE where it feels more like a meta site (which I like more than main sites) than a main site.

Still not sure how I managed to get 3k rep on M&TV

Catija

MSE is a meta site? Unless you mean Math.SE. 🤣

caird coinheringaahing

No, I mean Meta.SE. It's some weird blend between a meta site and a main site, in that it functions like a meta site, but has the same site culture as a main site :P

hyper-neutrino

at least according to the flag history page, math.SE hasn't received too many flags recently

... but also, the flag history page is pretty bad and i don't actually know if it means there haven't been flags recently

caird coinheringaahing

Doesn't it sort by when the message was posted, not by when the flag was raised?

hyper-neutrino

yep

i also can't see the contents of mod flags after the fact, though that's probably by design and a good thing

Browncat Programs

00:43

@cairdcoinheringaahing Good luck at uni! (I already said this I think but ×2 never hurts :p)

caird coinheringaahing

Thanks :D

Catija

It's a tool that was designed for staff and made visible to mods. It's easier for us to query SEDE if we need room-specific data.

hyper-neutrino

in Maid Café (メイド喫茶), 4 hours ago, by hyper-neutrino

the issue with meta is that unlike pretty much all other sites, the ability to participate doesn't correlate to how affected you are

(+ the 2 messages after it) :P

caird coinheringaahing

I can never get over the name of that room :P

@Catija Does SEDE cover chat?

Catija

Internally, yes.

Browncat Programs

00:45

@cairdcoinheringaahing Pretty comfortable with it, not enough that I'd make it my username, but I'd put it in my profile if I thought it was necessary or relevant

Catija

@hyper-neutrino is this about downvotes? Because that's mostly the limiting factor.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Can I very politely beg you to allow us mortals to use SEDE on chat somehow? It'd be so much better than the current system (search and nothing else)

hyper-neutrino

@Catija it is lol

caird coinheringaahing

I suppose I should ~~make that into an MSE question~~ find the already existing MSE question

hyper-neutrino

in Maid Café (メイド喫茶), 12 hours ago, by ᴅᴀɴɪᴇʟッ

28

Q: Remove the -1 reputation penalty for downvoting answers on Meta.SE

Because other Meta sites in the network don't have their own reputation (instead relying on the reputation of their parent sites), there is no reputation penalty for downvoting answers on those sites. This is a good thing: Meta sites invite robust debate and discussion where ideas, in the form o...

:P

caird coinheringaahing

00:47

No, for chat SEDE

hyper-neutrino

oh.

caird coinheringaahing

I know about that, and have upvoted it :P

Catija

We have new data people starting and I'm guessing that looking into Public SEDE will be part of that... so it's possible... but we try to limit the visibility of chat since it's somewhat unmoderated... who knows what dangers lurk in these halls...

caird coinheringaahing

Like shudder Vyxal

@hyper-neutrino I've found that engaging on MSE without much knowledge of the network produces the same results as participating on e.g. Seasoned Advice when you can't cook

Maybe it'll go well, but in all likelihood, you'll get downvoted (almost immediately) and told that it's a dupe

Catija

@hyper-neutrino yeah. I was actually in the chat room discussion that led to that question.

DLosc

00:49

@cairdcoinheringaahing Anyone can cook... it doesn't mean they should

hyper-neutrino

true. but for things like proposing changes (which should happen before implementation more often *cough*) being able to vote on it freely would make sense because it affects you even if you don't have the knowledge to actually engage (which is how you'd get rep)

caird coinheringaahing

Trust Gusteau: Anyone can cook

Catija

The alternative people were arguing for was getting rid of rep on MSE and using network rep, which I think is bad.

hyper-neutrino

i do like that they nerfed the rep requirement to downvote but with only two downvotes you lose that privilege

@Catija i agree with you on that, sounds like a bad idea

caird coinheringaahing

MSE shouldn't have rep, and should really use something like Codidact's abilities system for stuff like edits/closing/deleting

Catija

00:51

I can change it to anything in a few seconds... along with changing the penalty for downvoting answers... but we need to understand the best solution there.

hyper-neutrino

even if rep were equivalent on all sites, which it definitely is not, someone's ability to engage and experience with MSE isn't really correlated to their experience with specific sites or even the number of sites they have experience with :P

caird coinheringaahing

Like, I don't have much issue with rep based privileges on sites, but I think Codidact's Abilities system outshines any other idea for MSE

@Catija Go by total network rep divided by sites active on :P

Browncat Programs

@Catija Change it to a random value each day

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Uh... no. ;)

Catija

I'd like to move away from static rep-based privileges that don't recognize actual knowledge of how to use the tools appropriately.

caird coinheringaahing

00:53

I have no idea why, but that video is completely broken for me :P

DLosc

Well, rats

hyper-neutrino

*sigh*

caird coinheringaahing

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing no. I have about as much rep on MSE as my other sites combined... should my participation be cut in half because it's on MSE?

hyper-neutrino

if you use my JHT site you won't need to have three github wiki tabs open for jelly ;) (jk it's a bit clunky to use compared to the wiki which is easier to get used to)

caird coinheringaahing

00:55

@Catija (in case the :P didn't make it obvious (of course it didn't, I always end messages with :P), I was joking :P)

Browncat Programs

@hyper-neutrino Could you add a feature to your JHT site where searching an atom brings up its description?

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Sounds like a change to my workflow, so nah :P

Browncat Programs

I really like your descriptions but finding one for a specific atom or quick means scrolling through the whole list

caird coinheringaahing

Next thing I know, holding down space will stop overheating my computer!

hyper-neutrino

wdym, like putting the symbol for it into the search field?

Browncat Programs

00:56

Yeah

hyper-neutrino

idk why i didn't consider that. that sounds like a good idea yeah

Browncat Programs

I'd use Ctrl+F except Chrome does some weird normalizing thing

Catija

One of my projects for Q4 is to investigate the community's thoughts on weighting close votes, similar to duplicate hammering. But probably with different requirements.

Browncat Programs

That sounds like a cool idea

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Weird! Anyway, I was trying to be clever about pointing out that my original statement was (a paraphrase of) what Remy said in that scene. It's one of my favorite movie quotes... applies to so many situations. :D

Catija

00:56

@cairdcoinheringaahing 🤣

caird coinheringaahing

Ugh, there's been a surprisingly large amount of this kinda spam :/

@DLosc I love Ratatouille (the movie specifically, I like the dish as well) :P

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing this type has been around for months lol :p or has it gotten an even higher influx lately

caird coinheringaahing

Ego especially has such a good character arc in like 5 scenes

@hyper-neutrino From what I've noticed, a higher influx recently

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing It just so happens I made ratatouille last night

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc Thoughts on melted cheese on top?

Catija

00:58

Cesar floated the idea of, as an example, making votes count double if the voter has cast >n votes and over, say, 80% were considered "valid" votes.

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm in favor, though it's good without too

caird coinheringaahing

I think it's great, but I've had a french guy literally threaten me when I suggested it :P

DLosc

I believe that X^D

Browncat Programs

Ooh, ^ for a nose fits really well with XD

It's all very angular

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija I dislike the idea of votes counting as "double", but I do wish that there was some way for "trusted" users to unilaterally close certain questions

DLosc

01:00

@BrowncatPrograms Yeah, other smilies you can get away with not putting a nose, but XD just looks wrong to me without one.

Browncat Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think it should maybe be based on the close reason

hyper-neutrino

X^|>

DLosc

[|:^D)>

Browncat Programs

For needs clarity, unilateral votes wouldn't be good. But for less ambiguous ones, I'd definitely support something like that.

hyper-neutrino

i think off topic could do with unilateral closing

caird coinheringaahing

01:01

I spent far too much time here, most of which is spent monitoring the CGCC main and meta active pages, and so I'm very often able to cast a CV for "blatantly off-topic posts" within seconds. If I could cast those as binding (and still have them reversible by other users with the same power), I'd be so happy

hyper-neutrino

or at least as a site-specific option. unilateral off-topic closing would be good for CGCC because of how obvious our scope is and how often it's ignored

Catija

The risk with unilateral votes is that someone goes on a spree and abuses it.

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah :/

hyper-neutrino

true

Browncat Programs

A mod could always clean up after though, and because it takes 3000k and a lot of reviewing experience (since you'd need to "unlock" the off topic hammer) it'd be super rare

hyper-neutrino

01:02

has that happened with hammers? or do you mean abuse as in overuse but not strictly misuse per se

@BrowncatPrograms 3 MILLION?? (:p)

Browncat Programs

Uh...oops lol

DLosc

@BrowncatPrograms 3000k? I'm not sure even Jon Skeet has that much rep (ninjad)

caird coinheringaahing

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to something that somehow used a similar system to tag badges

Catija

We do have a big investigation going on to give people a sandbox-like space to draft questions that may reduce the need for closing. But it's unclear what it will end up looking like and whether it will ever be built.

Browncat Programs

:o

That sounds like it could be a really amazing feature

DLosc

01:03

@Catija You're still... sandboxing the idea? =P

caird coinheringaahing

A rep based privilege fails, as you can get too much rep with no moderation experience. Unfortunately, there's no real good way (at least not visibly) to show CV record like there is with tag badges

Browncat Programs

There could maybe be something like the tag badge thing on the profile page, that would show number of close votes and percent valid

caird coinheringaahing

If there was e.g. a badge for casting X CVs with Y% being "valid", that'd show some basis

Speaking of tag badges, I'm one status-completed answer away from being the first person to get the bronze tag badge :P

hyper-neutrino

are there any badges you can lose

caird coinheringaahing

Tag badges

hyper-neutrino

01:05

oh lol

caird coinheringaahing

Otherwise, no

Browncat Programs

I think having it be something like a tag badge is the best option

Catija

But we're currently doing design work on version labels, that can be applied to answers, which I think will address some of the answer sorting needs y'all have... the labels are designed to work with tags, though (currently) so I'm not sure we'll have a way to create what you want. I guess you could have the tag be "language" and the version labels would just be all the different languages.

hyper-neutrino

language tagging would be very nice. unfortunately it sounds like (and I think we discussed this already) doing byte count via this will be unviable but it's definitely exciting regardless

Browncat Programs

Just a second, since this is quite clearly a dream I'm going to go try flying :p

caird coinheringaahing

01:07

@Catija If we had a system-builtin method of labeling our answers under a specific language, that'd be a great first step

hyper-neutrino

although it'll create a lot of tag spam since we have no need for tags for many, or even almost all of the languages used on this site

Catija

I mean, you can create a version label for every number... since they're attached to a tag, it wouldn't clutter up the tags page.

caird coinheringaahing

With such a system, even if it didn't work perfectly for us from the get-go, we'd get plenty of userscripts and meta suggestions about how to improve them :P

DLosc

@Catija Huh! That's a neat idea, especially for StackOverflow where I'm often searching for JavaScript info and then realizing the question and top answers are from 2008

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Why not have code-golf as the tag?

That tag is where the language distinction matters the most

Catija

01:09

Yeah. The hope is that users can have a search function for, say Python 3, and we'll only return answers that are known to work in that version.

DLosc

Makes sense to me, if I understand the proposed system correctly

hyper-neutrino

oh wait i misread that i thought it just meant you could add a tag to an answer lol

Browncat Programs

If the reputation limit were sufficiently low for making a version, this could work really well

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing sure. It'll be your call on how to structure it. I think I'll be posting some early research and design ideas for the mods to review soon, @hyper-neutrino

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija Sorry, I think I understand but just to clarify: "labels" on answers would be some form of a "sub-tag" underneath the tags on the question, right? So if something was tagged with code-golf, and labeled as [javascript], it'd enable searching for JS answers to code golf challenges?

Catija

01:11

Yeah

Browncat Programs

This would also be super amazing for things like leaderboard userscripts

hyper-neutrino

@Catija cool, looking forward to it, thanks :D from what i understand of it now this seems like a close-to-perfect fit for what we'll want for languages

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija And would it be possible to label something as [javascript], even if the challenge didn't have the code-golf tag? Or would that create a new label as a "child" of whatever tags were on the challenge?

Browncat Programs

@BrowncatPrograms It'd be a standardized format for language names, and while we're editing to standardize old ones we can make the byte counts follow a predictable format too

hyper-neutrino

and for byte count, i guess i could run a script to just produce like a couple thousand version numbers :P (somewhat joking but depending on how it looks that might be a potental option)

caird coinheringaahing

01:12

You can tell how excited we get for a potential new feature based on the number of questions we ask about it :P

Browncat Programs

This could be useful on all sorts of sites, too. Like Law.SE, since you'll often see jurisdictions tagged at the top.

caird coinheringaahing

"Hey y'all, we're going to be adding Collectives to Stack Overflow to help improve the accuracy of answers": *crickets*
"Hey y'all, we're thinking about adding labels to answers": *proceeds to ask 50 questions*

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'm not sure at this point. I think there's a use case for answers that may use versions that don't relate to tags on the question... such as an answer in MySQL on a question just tagged sql... ? Thoughts? Are there better non code Golf examples?

@hyper-neutrino you'd likely be able to create ranges for bigger numbers, I think?

@BrowncatPrograms yeah. It's got huge potential for non-version usage, I think. We just need to make it flexible enough to allow for it.

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija As Brownvat mentioned, Law could probably use this to label answers under specific jurisdictions. However, it might be a hassle to have them organised first by tag, then by label. For example, if you searched for a term too specific to have a tag and were interested in Australia only answers, then labels detached from tags would make sense

Browncat Programs

This is probably a lot more work than what y'all are intending the feature to be, but it sounds to me like one of the better ways to approach it might be letting answers use any of the same tags questions can, and at the same time add in tag hierarchies so you can have a python-3.7 tag or something

DLosc

01:17

@Catija Yeah, I can see that. Not so much with the programming sites, but I'm thinking of RPG.SE, for instance--somebody might ask a system-agnostic question that gets system-specific answers. So it would be useful to be able to label one answer as D&D5e, another as GURPS, etc.

Catija

The primary usage we're focusing on is language versions but I think things like regions can be valid uses, too... that'll be part of the discovery.

@DLosc exactly. They're one of the other sites I want to keep in mind.

caird coinheringaahing

Would the ability to label your answer be a 1-rep ability, or would it be a rep based privilege?

Bubbler

36

Q: (Mega-) feature request: Answer labels

A recent post on SO Meta mentioned this: [...] we are in the early exploration phase of: [...] making it possible to label individual answers with technology versions — for example, [python-v2] vs. [python-v3]. I think this feature could be beneficial to other sites on SE. As a Code Golf regu...

discussion feature-request answers

Obligatory link to feature request

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing Labels would be like tags... using them is 1 rep, creating them requires more.

caird coinheringaahing

Oh yeah, can ^^^ get a status tag (@Catija)?

@Catija That sounds like the best way forwards tbh :)

Catija

01:20

Let's wait until we launch the public investigation first. I'm not sure of the timeline quite yet.

caird coinheringaahing

It's a shame that Slate left right when the conversation got interesting :P Guess we didn't have enough seeds to interest her :P

@Catija ..right, yes, of course. This is just an idea in the works rn, of course :)

Browncat Programs

And a very promising one :p

Catija

She probably just shut her computer down and wasn't paying attention to the room. :P

caird coinheringaahing

@Catija But I like to think that we need to up our seed totals around here :P Currently, only feersum and Kamilla can use Seed, might be a good way to tempt a CM into participating here :P

However, it is approaching 2:30 am, and I have to be driving someone somewhere in 6 hours, so night y'all o/

Browncat Programs

o/

Glhf! (with tomorrow not sleeping :p)

caird coinheringaahing

01:25

@BrowncatPrograms Thanks (it's technically tomorrow for me, as I move on Saturday :P)

DLosc

\o

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing o.O RIP that person

Catija

@cairdcoinheringaahing Seed?

Sleep - :D

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Not too comfortable even if it's probably possible to find my name and it's unlikely to be abused somehow

@cairdcoinheringaahing It always amazes me how any human can even do that

caird coinheringaahing

01:53

@Catija It's an esoteric programming language where programs consist of a length, and a seed to a random number generator. This then generates a program in Befunge (another esoteric language), and runs it

Check the link for a full description:P

Jo King

First step is to reverse the mersenne twister

user

Oh, that easy, eh?

caird coinheringaahing

First step in hacking the NSA? Just reverse their RSA encryption :P

Idk why, but my phone autocorrect insists on no space before :P at the end of the message :/

Browncat Programs

Ahem, I think you're supposed to be asleep :p

Don't make me kick-mute you :p (actually not sure if ROs can be kicked...)

caird coinheringaahing

We can

And I can't sleep

Browncat Programs

02:00

:/

caird coinheringaahing

I blame Catija, her updates on what SE are working on are clearly keeping me awake :P

@BrowncatPrograms Yeah, we can, but feel free to kick me if you'd like to double check :P

I know that if I try to kick myself it tells me to take a walk

Browncat Programs

I've never kicked anyone in TNB I don't think, so I'll try :p

Huh, seems like it worked

Bubbler

Huh

Browncat Programs

Quick, everyone, say bad things about cheese on ratatouille now that caird can't reply!

Oh hi caird

caird coinheringaahing

I'm back :P

Browncat Programs

02:03

Nothing happening here

caird coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Nope, not bi, gay :P

Browncat Programs

The keys are close together okay :p

caird coinheringaahing

Frocking mobile chat

@BrowncatPrograms How? There's literally nothing bad that could be said :P

Browncat Programs

That seems to be evident given that nobody said anything :p

caird coinheringaahing

Cheese makes everything better :P

Sandbox Posts

02:06

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Fast Inverse Square Root //evil floating point bit level hacking Introduction The fast inverse square root algorithm is a function developed in C for Quake III. It was at the time the fastest way to compute the inverse square root of a function, which is needed for most vector operations. The co...

New Posts

0

Q: Fast Inverse Square Root *//evil floating point bit level hacking*

Introduction The fast inverse square root algorithm is a function developed in C for Quake III. It was at the time the fastest way to compute the inverse square root of a function, which is needed for most vector operations. The code as written in 1999, from the quake 3 source, is as follows: fl...

code-golf math popularity-contest

Browncat Programs

Oh nice, the "sandbox for under 10m" strategy of posting

Oh no and it's a popcon

Can someone hammer that ^^^

The dupe target should probably be VTCed as unclear after that's done, since it's totally unobservable

Bubbler

Also "delete as soon as people say something negative"

Browncat Programs

Giving feedback to new askers who totally mess up but still seem to be trying is really tough :/

I think they were somewhat trying given that they sandboxed it (for 7m :p) and it looks well written, they just didn't take time to familiarize themselves with our rules

And whenever there's someone like that, I'm worried my comment will chase them away from the site

Bubbler

02:25

Well, some will be chased away even if you clearly don't intend to

hyper-neutrino

02:53

well at least we know SD works

lyxal

@BrowncatPrograms that's a cg challenge speedrun strat that only really works for experienced runners

Browncat Programs

The sandbox skip is a risky strat novice runners tend to use

Experienced runners typically take the time loss, since they know it'll buff their RNG

But they also have the skill to safely avoid the time loss and use the skip, creating two distinct play styles

lyxal

@BrowncatPrograms but sometimes they don't

@BrowncatPrograms exactly

@BrowncatPrograms :( you can't hammer a deleted post

Bubbler

03:21

Hmm, I think it's the very first time I got popular question (1k views) before nice question (+10) (for 4-8-8 GoL)

Now I need to rethink my challenge posting time to optimize for HNQ effect :P

Browncat Programs

I've already done that :p

20

Back when I was new to Code Golf SE (then PPCG), a lot of my questions didn't do too well, and I didn't have the experience to tell whether they were good challenged or not. As such, I would often blame it on anything I could, like post time. A few years later, I've started to wonder about wheth...

discussion asking-questions statistics

lyxal

Heyo so I finally found the true opposite of redwolf

Ignore the fact that is says "bot"

It's a real user talking on an irc bridge that also spans multiple discord servers

hyper-neutrino

03:48

apionet?

how do you even do bridges, webhook spam?

lyxal

@hyper-neutrino correct

@hyper-neutrino idk how they do it

Razetime

apionet is really the best

pVC aecidiospore adduced

06:43

increment is the most used command in jelly?!

Return the element of y at index x % len(y). If floor(x) and ceil(x) aren't equal, return the elements of y at indices floor(x) % len(y) and ceil(x) % len(y).

^ what does that mean?

pxeger

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced return the x'th element of y, wrapping around (x=4 (1-indexed), y=[1, 2, 3] -> 1). If x is not an integer, take the two integers to either side of it and return the two elements at those two indices. (e.g. 1.5 will get the 1st and 2nd elements) (also wrapping around)

pVC aecidiospore adduced

ohhh

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