The Nineteenth Byte

Unrelated String

5:00 PM

you'd gimp your ability to use full unicode that way but it's still interesting

Browncat Programs

Modding by code page size sounds like an unusual detail

DLosc

This is intended for a language where a lot of operations vectorize over lists, with the idea that the same operations would vectorize over strings too.

@BrowncatPrograms @UnrelatedString "Code page" could be "all of UTF-8" if desired

Unrelated String

true

Browncat Programs

@DLosc Why not just have a different set of overloads for strings, that only vectorize when needed (and do it reasonably)?

DLosc

More work, less orthogonal?

Browncat Programs

5:01 PM

More golfy

DLosc

3 hours ago, by Browncat Programs

Readability is very important for a golfing language imo

;)

caird coinheringaahing

Better idea: represent strings as lists of code points, then represent everything according to

Aug 24 at 23:54, by Dude coinheringaahing

CMC: Given a list containing either integers, or lists of integers or lists (and etc.), encode every list as a base n+1 integer where n is the largest element in that list. [1,[2,6,7,[8,9]],3,[[4,[10]]],5] -> 10324088012575466278494485 Steps

Unrelated String

i would say also that using a smaller implicit modulo could be useful for, like, multiplying by a magic constant to transliterate something

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing Sooner or later, I'm creating a language based around this

Browncat Programs

IMO there are two reasonable string representations, and anything else is just overcomplicating one of the two

Aaron Miller

5:02 PM

@BrowncatPrograms *cough* Vyxal *cough*

caird coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller He said "reasonably" :P

Browncat Programs

@BrowncatPrograms Either strings are strings and that's it, or strings are arrays of a character type

Aaron Miller

lol

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@AaronMiller not mine :P

ok i am kidding

Aaron Miller

only weaknesses? :P

caird coinheringaahing

5:03 PM

@BrowncatPrograms I think arrays of integers representing code points is also a valid representation

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@AaronMiller yes

caird coinheringaahing

Especially for lower level languages

Unrelated String

^

Browncat Programs

I'd just call those characters though

Unrelated String

fair enough

caird coinheringaahing

5:04 PM

Might be semantics, but I'd see a slight difference between the two

Not enough to argue about tho

Aaron Miller

Why not just get rid of strings completely and just use binary?

Browncat Programs

Well, I'd consider it a third then

But that's not one golfing languages would usually use

Unrelated String

yes
replace all arrays with a single bigint

that's actually an interesting idea

hyper-neutrino

just get rid of strings completely

no more strings. this language cannot solve string manipulation challenges

Unrelated String

true

Browncat Programs

5:05 PM

@hyper-neutrino You say that jokingly as I write a string manipulation library for brainfuck :p

DLosc

@UnrelatedString Sounds good

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString *cough*

Browncat Programs

You underestimate how far people will go to do things totally outside a language's intended purposes :p

Ooh Java-to-Python translator program guy is doing a presentation on his work

Unrelated String

oh no

Aaron Miller

Why not just remove everything? That's the most readable of all!

github.com/kelseyhightower/nocode

Unrelated String

5:07 PM

keep us posted on the details

Browncat Programs

He just used other people's Java and Python parsing libraries >:|

hyper-neutrino

lol

Unrelated String

classy

caird coinheringaahing

O.o Lynn just golfed my code by 25%

Pepper (my new puppy) is literal chaos, turned into puppy form :P

She keeps winding up Patch by stealing his ball, and hiding it in the garden :P

Aaron Miller

༼ つ ◕o◕ ༽つ

caird coinheringaahing

5:15 PM

Aaron Miller

I am going to break into your house and steal pepper for myself.

(For legal reasons that's a joke.)

caird coinheringaahing

Good luck, she'll bite you non-stop as you pick her up :P

Aaron Miller

and I will love her anyway

DLosc

@AaronMiller Works for C

(I'm a bit embarrassed about how long it took me to get the syntax right for that)

Aaron Miller

@DLosc Works for Flipbit

Unrelated String

5:22 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing i was like halfway to suggesting you add a leading bit to each pattern instead of padding but... that definitely works too

DLosc

TIL you can mute specific tabs in Chrome and Firefox (and, I assume, most modern browsers)

That's nice because I can play music and not have to worry about being startled by the chat ping noise

New Posts

0

Q: Silly sentence generator

Your challenge is to input a word and find all words enclosed within angle brackets. (< and >) Here is an example: The <adjective> <noun> biked across the bridge. Next, replace all <noun>s with a random noun, all <verb>s with a random verb, all <adjectives>s with a random adjective, and all <adverb

Thomas Ward

i mean i'm tempted to do something for ^^ that in Python but i know i'll instantly be outgolfed xD

caird coinheringaahing

@NewPosts OP definitely needs to start using the Sandbox

Thomas Ward

i also agree with ^^ that

@cairdcoinheringaahing sounds like you should comment that saying "Start using the sandbox first!"

'test cases: none" doesn't sit right with me

there's always ways to create a test case and show example output

(even if 'random' is involved)

Razetime

5:33 PM

@ThomasWard yep, they are very prompt with that.

Browncat Programs

@DLosc Beware, using it on chrome messes up the audio playing permissions, so if you've made it so a tab can always play audio muting it will restore it back to requiring interaction first

That's why I stopped using it for TNB

DLosc

@NewPosts Alas... I sympathize with what OP is trying to do, but it doesn't fit the squeeze-every-byte spirit of code golf.

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard Done that :P

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

code-golf Silly Sentence Generator Your challenge is to input a sentence and find all words enclosed within angle brackets. (< and >) Here is an example: The <adjective> <noun> biked across the bridge. Next, replace all <noun>s with a random noun, all <verb>s with a random verb, all <adjectives>...

caird coinheringaahing

I have a quick comment (alt+4) specifically with "You should start using the Sandbox" prefilled

DLosc

5:37 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing It's working!

caird coinheringaahing

Not exactly as intended tho :P

Aaron Miller

Should the question be closed until it's done in the sandbox so that people don't answer it?

DLosc

Probably

caird coinheringaahing

I've advised them to delete the main post (then undelete and edit once clarified)

DLosc

@BrowncatPrograms I... don't know what that means. :P But anyway, I'm on Firefox right now.

Browncat Programs

5:42 PM

Ah, ok :p

I have TNB set to always be able to play audio, since it usually requires interacting with the page in some way first, since I wasn't getting pings if I had it open in the background and it reloaded. Any time I'd mute the tab and unmute it, it'd reset those settings.

Thomas Ward

6:01 PM

yeah well it's not being kept

caird coinheringaahing

I'd suggest not keeping the code, preparing answers for Sandboxing questions can be frowned on :P

Thomas Ward

this isn't being kept

it's literally just what i typed up in Python xD

on IDLE

it erases since it's never kept

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard Ah, you ninja'd me :P

Thomas Ward

it isn't being kept, but minus capitalization, 127 bytes, but requires an import from standard libs xD

literallyw as bored

caird coinheringaahing

fair enough :P

127 bytes in Python sounds reasonably short for that tbh

@ThomasWard random?

Thomas Ward

6:04 PM

122 bytes because i realized i added extra crap that wasn't needed

but basically, yes. random.choice

probably against the rules, but i was curious if i could just do it :P

i.e. not competitive, "took it as a micro challenge for myself"

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard Nah, standard libraries are perfectly fine

I'd be surprised if you could get <200 bytes on a random challenge without using import random (or any other imports) in Python

Thomas Ward

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, that's the core bits, making two assumptions: (1) the string to parse is stored in a variable (s in this case), and (2) the list of words and word types is populated (like specified in the original post) already and not part of the actual 'how to do this' stuff).

it becomes too large to be considered 'golfing' if you have to include population of the word lists (tio.run's 'header' is good xD)

yawns

little microchallenge to make sure my brain can do stuff :)

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard That's my biggest concern about the challenge tbh, I suspect that most answers are going to waste/spend a lot of bytes just encoding the word lists, and that's never the fun part of golfing :/

Thomas Ward

yeah their sandboxed version rewrote it to provide the lists

so there's no 'use your own' but yeah that's a question: "Should we include populating the word lists or the string to parse and process in the code count" is a concern

i'd ask but i'm lazy

and i'm still working i just needed the break from the Postfix hell i'm in

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard I remember a couple of years back, someone would see a post in the Sandbox, immediately draft up an answer and spend the time working on golfing it, so that when the challenge was posted after a few days, they'd have an answer posted in seconds that was already golfed

Thomas Ward

6:09 PM

i'm assuming the answer to that would be "no, just your implementations"

hah yeah well

as i said before, this is me just microchallenging myself

i have no intention to ever post it, even if i forgot to delete the code

caird coinheringaahing

Understandably, people got annoyed and so we discourage working on actually solving (and saving) answers to sandboxed challenges :P

Thomas Ward

yep

I use CGCC and some of these things as random coding challenges for me to take a stab at privately

i have no intention to actually compete right now :)

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard I do the same :P I also try to create a solution to the Sandbox challenge to see if it's clear enough to be on main, and to find areas that aren't as clear :P

Thomas Ward

yep

like in this case i have a question for clarification :p

@cairdcoinheringaahing there used to be a meta thread with 'generally accepted assumptions and rules' for golfing, where'd that go, or was it replaced/removed?

(i.e. the statement that 'standard libs and usage therein are permitted' being stated as a general rule)

caird coinheringaahing

There's the standard forbidden loopholes, but that's about what isn't allowed rather than what is

There's also the unspoken challenge rules

I think that generally, unless something is explicitly banned, it's ok to do here (such as using standard libs)

Thomas Ward

6:16 PM

well I'd assume that if someone's happening to golf in a language that has standard libs, like Python or such, it'd be too restrictive to not use them when random is at play

Anush

CMQ which words start with the sound of a letter which is not the letter it starts with? E.g. euphemism?

Thomas Ward

because otherwise you have to write a random number generator, which in itself is painful as heck, and needs standard libs in Python anyways xD

Anush

(just for fun :) )

Browncat Programs

@Anush you

caird coinheringaahing

@Anush Any word beginning with eu (euphoria, eutopia, etc.)

Anush

6:17 PM

@BrowncatPrograms good

@cairdcoinheringaahing yes

caird coinheringaahing

@ThomasWard It'd be interesting to see if you can write a PRNG in vanilla Python

I think id is kind of random

Browncat Programs

@Anush Potentially "era"

caird coinheringaahing

@Anush xylophone

Browncat Programs

"Eye"

"Einkorn"

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms which letter the sound for era?

Browncat Programs

6:18 PM

Others with "ei"/"ey"

@Anush A

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms I like it!

@BrowncatPrograms got you

Any pt words that start with the sound tee?

caird coinheringaahing

pterodactyl

Or do you a long e?

Anush

@cairdcoinheringaahing isnt that teh?

Thomas Ward

@cairdcoinheringaahing i'll eat my hat if someone does

Anush

@cairdcoinheringaahing I think you need a long e

Browncat Programs

6:20 PM

@Anush "effort"

Anush

@BrowncatPrograms eh?

caird coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms ... how do you pronounce that?

Browncat Programs

@ThomasWard I've implemented xorshift128+ in JS, it's like ten lines of code :p

@cairdcoinheringaahing It starts with the way you say "F"

caird coinheringaahing

Eh-fort starts with an e :P

Anush

:)

caird coinheringaahing

6:21 PM

@BrowncatPrograms Hmm

Browncat Programs

"Eff-urt"

Anush

Maybe it should be on puzzling se?

@BrowncatPrograms good point!

Browncat Programs

Lots of "el" words

Elementary, electric, elephant

Anush

Those are good

Browncat Programs

cable

caird

cage

and other with "ca"

Expert

Anush

6:23 PM

Nice

Browncat Programs

Why

Anush

:)

Browncat Programs

Estimate

End

hyper-neutrino

words starting with xeno-

Anush

We need a list to see which letters are missing!

Browncat Programs

6:24 PM

@hyper-neutrino Ooh nice one

hyper-neutrino

cue :P

Anush

@hyper-neutrino which letter is that?

Browncat Programs

See

@Anush Z

hyper-neutrino

@Anush Z (in the American way of saying it, "zee")

Anush

Ah for Americans!

@hyper-neutrino nice

Thomas Ward

6:25 PM

xenomorph
xenobiology
xenophobic
xenograft
xenoanthropology

(just because)

Browncat Programs

Art

Ink

Air

hyper-neutrino

@BrowncatPrograms what letter does that start with

Browncat Programs

E

hyper-neutrino

... wait how do you pronounce that

Browncat Programs

B, D, G, H, J, O, P, T, W are the only ones left I think

hyper-neutrino

6:27 PM

also doesn't "air" start with the "a" sound too

DLosc

@BrowncatPrograms Ewe

Browncat Programs

@hyper-neutrino Wait it does yes

Thomas Ward

@hyper-neutrino and 'ex-' starts with the X sound

:P

Browncat Programs

@BrowncatPrograms I misread that

Art is R, Ink is E, Air is A

hyper-neutrino

double-u (:p)

Browncat Programs

6:28 PM

Unless there's some obscure loanword, I don't think any more progress is possible, except maybe for O

If you have a weird accent, ate for H maybe

Actually I have a weird accent apparently

Ate ~= H when followed by some words

Like "your"

hyper-neutrino

surely there's a word starting with J that sounds like it starts with the name for "G"

Browncat Programs

True

Jeer

Jingle

Plus some names and loanwords

There's gotta be something for O

DLosc

@BrowncatPrograms I've always been unsure whether the "ing" sound is pronounced with the vowel in KIT (/ɪ/) or the vowel in FLEECE (/i/)--my instincts told me /i/, but the IPA transcriptions I saw all said /ɪ/. Now I see that the Wiktionary page for ink says some American dialects do pronounce it with /i/. Interesting!

@BrowncatPrograms I was thinking "eau," but apparently that's still considered French, even though it's a technical term in perfume ingredients.

Browncat Programs

B, D, P, and T are almost certainly impossible I think

DLosc

Aubergine!

Browncat Programs

6:36 PM

Nice!

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Jif

@Anush Gif

Browncat Programs

How...how do you pronounce that

"Jayf"?

DLosc

Zhyfe

caird coinheringaahing

"Gif" is with a soft g, "Jif" is with a hard g, duh :P

hyper-neutrino

ಠ_ಠ

even then it's not the name of "J" if it's "ji" and not "jay"

please don't tell me you pronounce the i as a long a

caird coinheringaahing

6:38 PM

What, what's "the name for G"?

Browncat Programs

First part of "Jingle" or "Jeer"

caird coinheringaahing

Not "gee"?

DLosc

(Go with Jeer if you're not a speaker of certain American dialects)

Or Jeep

caird coinheringaahing

Jeer/Jeep start with a "djuh" sound :P

DLosc

R, L, and nasals mess up the pronunciation of vowels

Browncat Programs

6:40 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah, "djee"

Do you pronounce it with an actual g sound?

Alan Bagel

@BrowncatPrograms I think so

Browncat Programs

So like "geek" without the "k"?

That sounds very weird to me :p

Alan Bagel

@BrowncatPrograms No, I meant like saying the letter G

Browncat Programs

Oh

DLosc

@BrowncatPrograms Did we find one for V?

Browncat Programs

6:45 PM

No

I forgot V was a thing

DLosc

It would almost have to be some borrowing from a language where that sound is spelled w or bh

@BrowncatPrograms DJMcMayhem is sad now

Neil

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, I don't have much choice do I?

Neil

7:14 PM

Four circles to the kissing come.
The smaller are the benter.
The bend is just the inverse of
The distance from the centre.
Though their intrigue left Euclid dumb
There’s now no need for rule of thumb.
Since zero bend’s a dead straight line
And concave bends have minus sign,
The sum of the squares of all four bends
Is half the square of their sum.

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing I'd be careful using absolutisms like "any" when we're discussing the English language

Browncat Programs

2

Alan Bagel

@BrowncatPrograms LOLOL

Aaron Miller

Notice that the guy on the left actually transformed into a different person, while the guy on the right stayed exactly the same. Therefore, the guy on the left wasn't originally Frank, thereby explaining why he had to specifically state that he was going to be Frank, instead of the other person expecting it from the start.

Neil

@cairdcoinheringaahing still doesn't make it edible

Alan Bagel

7:25 PM

@AaronMiller Smort

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing link?

@cairdcoinheringaahing why wouldn't you be able to?

Browncat Programs

The main PRNGs most languages I've seen use, xorshift variants, take like ten lines :p

pxeger

of course you need a seed; depending on your definition of "vanilla" python that might be hard

Browncat Programs

Just write another PRNG to generate the seed

caird coinheringaahing

6

A: Neural Processing Lattice Checker

Jelly, 20 15 bytes ị“???7ȷ%Ñ£¡‘&\Ƒ Try it online! -5 bytes thanks to Lynn! How it works ị“???7ȷ%Ñ£¡‘&\Ƒ - Main link. Takes a list of integers on the left “???7ȷ%Ñ£¡‘ - Integer list; [63, 63, 63, 55, 26, 37, 16, 2, 0] ị - For each i in the input, get the ith element of the list ...

Browncat Programs

7:37 PM

Oh no

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing neat!

Browncat Programs

My laptop is going to die and I didn't bring a charger

This is so sad

emanresu A

Ask friend

Does you has friend?

Browncat Programs

Not one with an acer chromebook

silly

Aaron Miller

@emanresuA Who needs friends when you have code golf?

2

Alan Bagel

7:45 PM

@AaronMiller So true

caird coinheringaahing

8:05 PM

@pxeger I don't think you wouldn't, just that it'd be impressive

Browncat Programs

...

Have you ever seen a PRNG?

It takes all of ten minutes to implement even some of the fancier ones

caird coinheringaahing

Nope, never seen a PRNG source code

Browncat Programs

I used to think they'd be complicated too until I saw one lol

uint32_t xorshift128(struct xorshift128_state *state)
{
	/* Algorithm "xor128" from p. 5 of Marsaglia, "Xorshift RNGs" */
	uint32_t t  = state->x[3];

    uint32_t s  = state->x[0];  /* Perform a contrived 32-bit shift. */
	state->x[3] = state->x[2];
	state->x[2] = state->x[1];
	state->x[1] = s;

	t ^= t << 11;
	t ^= t >> 8;
	return state->x[0] = t ^ s ^ (s >> 19);
}

caird coinheringaahing

I just close my eyes and press a random key on the keyboard. Boom, RNG :P

Alan Bagel

In case anyone wanted to see Python 3's random.randint source code:

```python
def randint(self, a, b):
"""Return random integer in range [a, b], including both end points.
"""

return self.randrange(a, b+1)
```

Wait no markdown?

Browncat Programs

8:16 PM

Not in multiline messages, no :/

Chat is very very janky

I should do this for the lols

I could see the sussiest place with my own eyes

> A friend bought a new desktop Windows PC. He bought it with only 46B RAM, and, as you would expect, it runs excruciatingly slowly.

I would expect so with 46 bytes of RAM

Alan Bagel

Me: downloads pycharm computer: out of memory

Browncat Programs

8:33 PM

> public static final int THREE = 3;

That's right people, magic numbers are bad, so use this

Gotta love when people insist on using best practices but don't know how to use them

Aaron Miller

@BrowncatPrograms I recently upgraded to 64B RAM, and the difference is mind-blowing

Browncat Programs

I'm not using my computer for gaming or anything, so I just have a couple bits of ram

Perfectly fine for web browsing

Aaron Miller

TIL Vim has a builtin g? to ROT13 text

caird coinheringaahing

I just download more ram whenever my computer is slow :P

Browncat Programs

8:51 PM

Anyone with some rep on earth and space science who can downvote this absolute masterpiece of an answer?

I've seen a lot of conspiracy theories, but the ozone hole being a hoax invented by refrigerant manufacturers is a new one to me :p

Is promoting conspiracy theories a valid flag reason?

caird coinheringaahing

Could be worth a mod flag if it's promoting misinformation

emanresu A

@BrowncatPrograms That answer actually bade me laugh out loud.

@RedwolfPrograms Ad hominem attacks along the lines of "anti-science nonsense by two no name authors" are not a valid criticism. — Muidhan Budghif 1 min ago

?

caird coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Additionally, the book is 30 years old

I can't think of any climate science from 30 years ago that is still being cited as accurate

ಠ_ಠ SD just tried to gaslight me :P Went to flag one of the posts it detected only to be told that I'd "already raised [a spam] flag on this post" (SD's autoflagging) :P

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

How many flights of stairs to climb? Challenge Given input as a list/array of strings that each represent the room of a class a student has to go to, output the total amount of flights of stairs the student has to climb to get to each class. Rules The student starts on the first floor. The stude...

emanresu A

9:28 PM

tjjfvi

Can you flag a flag as very low quality?

4

emanresu A

(I didn't actually click the flag button, in case anyone's wondering)

tjjfvi

emanresu A

The power of inspect element.

Btw, how long did it take you to create/explain/animate your answer for Totally Cubular?

tjjfvi

9:43 PM

The first commit was Jun 25th

emanresu A

Aug 26 at 20:23, by tjjfvi

(I also have an answer to Totally Cubular, I'm just finishing up the explanation)

tjjfvi

A bit of the time was spent writing the explanation

emanresu A

A bit?

tjjfvi

90%

(Though a bit of that time was also spent getting distracted by other things)

emanresu A

Amazing explanation though, very easy to understand, especially with all the animations. This is definitely going into Best of CGCC.

tjjfvi

9:45 PM

It seems I had a working solution Aug 3

@emanresuA :D

@tjjfvi Wait, no, July 25th

So 7 weeks between start and posting, maybe 4-5 weeks actually working on it?

Neil

@Razetime IIRC Charcoal tried to be readable, at least to start with... some of the later operators seem a little random

Neil

10:05 PM

@DLosc There are other modern browsers?

user

Safari?

hyper-neutrino

does opera count

also i think edge can be considered a modern browser

tjjfvi

Edge or Edgium?

Neil

@Anush reddit.com/r/Bravenewbies/comments/2s8xe7/… has a bunch of examples

user

@hyper-neutrino Edge (the new one) just uses Chromium, so I don't think that distinction is necessary

Most browsers seem to use Chromium these days, and some Firefox's lizard thingy

hyper-neutrino

10:16 PM

oh i see

tjjfvi

@user Geico? :P

user

Oh right, I forgot Mozilla branched out into insurance (or is it the movie business? I can never tell with GEICO ads)

tjjfvi

Those are all trailers for the GEICO movie they're working on

user

That would honestly be amazing

Even a movie made entirely out of GEICO ads

hyper-neutrino

wait this thing? is made by mozilla??

user

10:19 PM

Yep

Firefox wasn't doing too well, so Mozilla decided to get into genetic engineering and created a talking lizard (the (genetic) code is all open source, of course)

tjjfvi

Speechlizard

user

Coincidentally, they proved the theory that British English is the most natural dialect of English and a posh British accent is the most natural accent because their lizard immediately began using it to advertise their insurance

caird coinheringaahing

10:48 PM

Ngl, I always associate "Mozilla" with "Godzilla", so them having a lizard mascot kinda makes sense :P

Wansen

Godzilla? hah i'm LOLing around on the floor now xD

caird coinheringaahing

CMQ: Which CS related site should I post my question on? has an entry for CGCC that is sort of... not great when it comes to clarifying what questions we accept here. I have a draft for something to replace the current one, but does anyone have any suggestions/things they think should be included?

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