The Nineteenth Byte

00:02

pill box seems a little confusing about how the order changes. flow free and k projections look fine

By "confusing", I mean, "ugh, why an 'except' clause? :("

Bubbler

@rak1507 Me being creative thinking "I should take the pills backwards to minimize how long a pill ends up in the pill box"

and the except part is because I don't need to consider ^ and I just feel like it :P

rak1507

that might confuse someone ~~sane~~ who thinks that you take things in the intended chronological order :P

tjjfvi

@tjjfvi And now one to a 4.5 year old unanswered question: Totally Cubular

caird coinheringaahing

That's an impressive answer, but it's not at all golfed

rak1507

well it's currently the shortest answer :P

cubular.t6.fyi holy crap

that is so cool

tjjfvi

00:16

@cairdcoinheringaahing Yeah, I decided not to golf it because code-golf is not at all integral to the challenge

Thanks! :)

The challenge says as much:
> I think this is probably enough of a challenge as it is, but let's make it [tag:code-golf] just to spice it up a bit more.

rak1507

@cairdcoinheringaahing you really downvoted it? cmon

caird coinheringaahing

@tjjfvi Then I've downvoted. Regardless of how much of a challenge the challenge is, or how impressive the answer is, if it doesn't even make an effort to meet the winning criteria, I'll downvote it

rak1507

Solving the challenge is making an effort to meet the winning criteria

It's more of an effort than anyone else has made in over 4 years!

It's an infinity percent reduction from the previous lowest score

caird coinheringaahing

All of that is irrelevant

Unrelated String

it's not making an effort to beat someone coming in 5 minutes later with a trivially modified version of the exact same answer

rak1507

00:19

@cairdcoinheringaahing Not really, it objectively does make an effort to meet the winning criteria.

caird coinheringaahing

Even if the code used single character variable names, and removed unnecessary whitespace, it shows some golfing effort. Otherwise, it's not a serious contender to the winning criteria

Bubbler

@rak1507 "Solve the challenge" is not part of the winning criteria

It is a validity criteria

Unrelated String

there's also nothing wrong with maintaining ungolfed code as an aside so long as that isn't the submission

caird coinheringaahing

Even GoL in Tetris had a winning criteria beyond "first answer wins"

^^

I appreciate answers that include an ungolfed version as well. But the key part of that sentence is "as well"

Unrelated String

^^^

rak1507

00:20

@Bubbler I would argue it is

Even so, downvoting is totally a dick move, it doesn't reward the effort. Even if you think it should be golfed, fair enough, but don't downvote, that's just mean

caird coinheringaahing

Downvoting is absolutely not a dick move (granted, I'm biased but still)

If tjjfvi included a golfed version, I'd remove my downvote. I'm simply expressing my displeasure that the answer makes no effort to meet the scoring criteria

rak1507

Can you not look past that and appreciate the effort that went into it?

caird coinheringaahing

As weird as it is to say for such an answer, without a golfed version, it's not a serious contender (by the site's definition of such) in my book

@rak1507 I do appreciate the effort that went into it

user

I wouldn't downvote, but it's not something personal, and I don't see anything wrong with it

@tjjfvi Please consider a minimal golf, at least, whenever you have the time. You can probably temporarily delete your answer until then

caird coinheringaahing

I think it's an incredible piece of coding, and clearly took a lot of hard work. If I were on any other site that was just about showing off code, I'd upvote/bounty/whatever to reward that effort. But here, we require some basic golfing effort. That's the absolute baseline, and it's not difficult to achieve

user

00:25

^ It's like a Stack Overflow answer with an ingenious wall of code that solves the OP's problem but doesn't explain how it's supposed to be used or what the OP is doing wrong in any way

caird coinheringaahing

Also, I hate the fact that downvoting is seen as a dick move

hyper-neutrino

speaking of which let me add "the vote button tooltips" to the list of things i want to be able to edit per-site

caird coinheringaahing

Moving away from this answer, because I think I've made it clear what I think, downvoting an post is meant to express that there is something you dislike about it. Often, that's something temporary that, when fixed, will result in you removing your downvote. But, ultimately, a downvote isn't a "dick move", it's saying "I think this post can be better, and I'd like to express that through a vote"

user

I think one thing all SE sites need is for people to be told every time the first few times they're downvoted: "This isn't anything personal, it just means you might need to improve your answer if it's salvageable"

Bubbler

This is a whole lot of re-exports... and if this works without name collisions, it looks trivial to collect all definitions into one file and apply some trivial golfs from there

tjjfvi

00:30

I'm working on a golfed answer now.

user

👌

caird coinheringaahing

+1

tjjfvi

IMO not golfing it was completely reasonable, but I am not going to argue that position.

user

In a code golf challenge, you need to at least make some effort towards golfing it

tjjfvi

> I am not going to argue that position

user

00:31

Right, sorry

caird coinheringaahing

I think it's settled now, no need to start arguing again :)

user

I like arguing too much, remind me too shut up when I do it :P

caird coinheringaahing

@user Same here :P

New Posts

0

Q: Simplify K projections

Background K functions have a feature called projection, which is essentially partial application of values to a function. The syntax for projections is a natural extension of the regular function call syntax: f[1;2;3] / call a ternary function f with three arguments 1, 2, 3 f[1;2;] / the ...

hyper-neutrino

proposal for the pinned CMP - we can create a "mod office" (or just smokey) room first and add the bot there so we can see how things turn out and decide to move it here if we want, and that way we get to try the proposed alternative without any risk / committment (since we can remove it anytime and TNB remainds unaffected, or just ignore it). thoughts?

since it seems not many people actually want it in TNB itself but a few people are still somewhat interested. or if we decide to not, i think we can unpin the message

Bubbler

00:36

Sounds good to me

caird coinheringaahing

I think if we had/have a mod office, then it'd make sense. Don't think it's worth having a separate room just for smokey (cause that's basically just CHQ)

But, do we want/need a mod office?

hyper-neutrino

i don't think so... y'all can always find all of us here anyway, lol.

i mean, how many people even care, really? you could just sign up to have smokey ping you in CHQ when it detects something on CGCC, lol. then we don't need to do anything

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, it was a suggestion of an idea, rather than a "I'd really like this, what do you think" :P

Bubbler

Might make sense if the mods have problems browsing TNB due to accumulated pings (like, you ping multiple mods for something, one of them handles it, and then the rest have a useless ping to be cleared which they need to read the transcript to dismiss)

And we have (relatively frequent) room access request

user

@Bubbler This is a problem on mobile (idk if mods do modding on their phones tho)

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Binary integer subtraction a - b with 0 < b < a using string processing logic [code-golf] [subtraction] [integer] [string]

hyper-neutrino

01:14

@user i don't because i get like 0 of my mod powers

Bubbler

lol

tjjfvi

@caird @user @unrelated @bubbler I've added a golfed version for 14717 bytes.

caird coinheringaahing

I count 14716 bytes :P

Reversed my downvote into an upvote :)

tjjfvi

Whoops, included a newline

Thanks :)

Sandbox Posts

01:42

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

I'm a big fan of silly challenges, but I'm afraid we're going to have to get serious. It's time to get rid of the lols. Or rather, the 101s, which look quite a bit like lols. Task: Take an integer as input. You'll make this number serious by removing the 101s from the number's binary representati...

lyxal

@SandboxPosts this is so sad

Alexa play despacito

Browncat Programs

I'm not sure if it's too trivial to post or not

It's actually not in the OEIS, which might make it slightly more interesting maybe?

lyxal

@lyxal now playing Despacito but it isn't actually the version with lyrics

Browncat Programs

Trying to think if there's something I could have answers do with the lols that is more interesting than just discarding them

Maybe changing them to olos repeatedly until there's no lols left?

E.g., 101101010011011 would become 010010010010101, which would become 010010010001010, which finally becomes 010010010000100

lyxal

@BrowncatPrograms wouldn't it be 101101010011011 -> 010011?

oh right

changing to 010

Browncat Programs

01:50

Or maybe just 0 could work

Since that could create more lols

lyxal

@BrowncatPrograms that's arguably even more boring in some languages

Browncat Programs

@BrowncatPrograms E.g., 11011 would become 101, then 0

Not sure if this challenge could be interesting or not

lyxal

The infinite replace idea isn't interesting

languages like 05AB1E and Vyxal have infinite replace built-ins

@BrowncatPrograms bvS∑`101`\0¢

@BrowncatPrograms bvS∑`101``010`¢

tjjfvi

Maybe: If there are any 101s, remove the first 101 and add 101 (5) to the number, repeat

lyxal

@BrowncatPrograms b"101""010":

@BrowncatPrograms b"101"'0:

see, currently, it isn't that interesting

caird coinheringaahing

01:55

I think b5B'0: would work?

lyxal

yeah it does

caird coinheringaahing

No, it doesn't :/

lyxal

5b does

caird coinheringaahing

Right

@cairdcoinheringaahing The witches clog it up because they die so slowly, but managed to implement it successfully in a proper survival world :P

tjjfvi

@tjjfvi I guess it'd have to be 1 or something, otherwise 101 loops endlessly

Browncat Programs

01:58

"The witches clog it up because they die so slowly" is a great sentence without context

tjjfvi

Or the input could be guaranteed to never reduce to 101

Or: find the closest number to the input number that doesn't contain any 101s

caird coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Fricking potions of healing restore just enough that my wither roses take ages to kill one of them

Tried magma blocks before realising witches have fire res potions

lyxal

CMQ: There once was a golfing language (stack based I think) and it used overloads for commands. In it's README.md (or some markdown documentation), it made a comparison to 05AB1E, saying something like "you don't need the ceiling of a letter nor the uppercase of a number". What language is it? I can't remember what it was.

okay nvm I found it

SOGL

> You'll never need to uppercase a number and take the ceiling of a string, will you?

that's the quote I was thinking of lol

anyhow, ignore the CMQ then

I just wanted to know what language it was so I could potentially borrow it's overloads

Browncat Programs

02:21

@BrowncatPrograms Example:

It's better than the owl hunting down my family but still...

lyxal

Wow redwolf jump back into spanish with zari

don't leave zari hanging like that bro

pVC aecidiospore adduced

04:14

@lyxal even me

Niko

05:09

ae hi ppls

emanresu A

In the online homework thing I have, sin 2t = sin(2) * t. "It's not a bug, it's a feature" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Razetime

yo homework golfing?!

3

pVC aecidiospore adduced

05:44

i left vsocde and now my extension has >500 installs

pVC aecidiospore adduced

05:56

regex101.com/r/vDoSkt/1

^ how do i make that so it doesnt prepend spaces if the letter is in front of a letter say K

so Kh -> ` Kh `

and kh -> ` k h `

a...anyone?

Bubbler

Should it be a single regex? Also, are you really intending to use " \1 " (prepend and append a space for each matched char, so you get two spaces between two matched chars)?

emanresu A

Just write a parser

pVC aecidiospore adduced

06:15

@emanresuA why?

@Bubbler yes

@emanresuA i am using regex to simply

also power went he=e

emanresu A

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Trust me - if you have to think about how to do something with regex, you shouldn't do it with regex.

Bubbler

Maybe this?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@emanresuA oof ok

i wont do it this way then

emanresu A

Since this is for 51AC8, you may as well incorporate it into your parser.

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Bubbler bruh its that simple

@emanresuA whats 51AC8?

emanresu A

06:21

Oops, Dinoux

Razetime

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced the best stack language

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Razetime ^_^

i changed its name

@Razetime and it doesnt have support for strings

cause its not necessary

Razetime

yeah strings really are useless

emanresu A

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced ಠ_ಠ

@Razetime Wdym?

Razetime

you read that right

emanresu A

06:24

How would you express the lowercase alphabet, for example, then?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@emanresuA wht?

@emanresuA use its ascii value

emanresu A

True...

pVC aecidiospore adduced

Tt Pop and: Print top as character(s), print top

@emanresuA to swap the case xor it with 32

emanresu A

But having a new datatype allows for string-specific overloads, such as regex stuff.

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@emanresuA regex?

Razetime

06:27

stax has regex and it doesn't have dedicated strings

pVC aecidiospore adduced

you can use a numerical regex

emanresu A

How would regex work on something like [-1,35,3e+143]?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Razetime Conclusion: Strings are useless.

@emanresuA use dofferent regex syntax

so 32 matches a space

emanresu A

How do you compress strings?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

and [32, -2] matches one or more spaces

emanresu A

06:31

I give up

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@emanresuA heh, use a numerical compression algorithm

get a substring => get the subarray

Strings are useless.

38 mins ago, 35 minutes total – 47 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by pVC aecidiospore adduced

in Dinoux Room, 16 secs ago, by pVC aecidiospore adduced

now i must make a list of features to steal from other langs

emanresu A

Good luck!

Having said that, we're a team of at least 6, and the rewrite's still not going to get done for another month or two.

@Bubbler Why'd you change your location?

I don't believe it! Someone actually gained reputation on windowsphone in the last month!

Bubbler

wut

emanresu A

And in the last year, 16 whole votes have been cast!

Actions have been taken by someone other than Commumity!

Bubbler

06:47

Btw I'm digging into Combinatory Conundrum for some reason and I feel like it might be possible to beat AndersK after four years

emanresu A

The review queues have been accessed for the first time in weeks!

~100 users have joined in the last month or so!

(most of them spammers, but still...)

pVC aecidiospore adduced

^ i am very serious about ~~stealing~~ borrowing commands from other langs

hyper-neutrino

a) wait what there are real users on windows phone? :o
b) i see the moderation team is still active

pVC aecidiospore adduced

emanresu A

Has Rowland Shaw done anything?

hyper-neutrino

06:59

well they must've in order to get elected

ok but if you mean recently, not since almost a year ago (in fact just 4 days short of a year ago)

in terms of public activity, at least

pVC aecidiospore adduced

07:11

@emanresuA i found this

pVC aecidiospore adduced

07:24

@dzaima does your version of APL pretty print arrays?

Bubbler

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Only for vectors and matrices

pVC aecidiospore adduced

thats only for 2d?

Bubbler

Yes

pVC aecidiospore adduced

oh

i wanted to know how numpy pretty prints its arrays

Bubbler

I think I explained that before

pVC aecidiospore adduced

07:32

yes

emanresu A

The beginning of Vyxal

pVC aecidiospore adduced

but i wanted to see the actual code

@emanresuA did you press next a lot?

emanresu A

No, I just returned to the beginning of time, and went from there.

Bubbler

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Actual code is somewhere in this gigantic file :P

pVC aecidiospore adduced

thx

here?

and there a decorator on top and a _array2string which does the actual work

ok nvm there is like a billion functions and function calls

dzaima

07:44

fwiw, dzaima/BQN has some formatting for high-rank arrays
https://dzaima.github.io/paste/#05Za9jtNAEMd7P8VfoqTxftvSlbzICUF7UkBIdMaRUhxInIhPiQQdXAUddIfEA/AWfhLGdjZrb7xZnxNokFbyZHdm1pn5zXgAiLr4Jeq763p1myd19b6u3gzXmnaXKRg4PRtZQELtZA2DrJM3B5YfE1j/3R3sMd3C0vaa1YcDfVrfxzajR@0rjr57YD9@1Hlc0r@mf9CKzS8bhm7laDY6eadPkYHeK8CGqlsczcZAn6KH3OnbcHZLodno64/EOLAfP0oCZ7Tuw6E@ctRL9931BSOB0x3v2kwX7fpmBU@@SerVujWoq9J/ko9PPd2fAflLMmJ7Zh9VT/dHQN4Ood8XV8aOYD8F8okK6yaWo7VA7xVmPloUB6Vha8G6XaKrB@bKJQPLwdMB8bYk9maMgwkw6cqE/HJwMTCzleHMFJgGM85MgitwHakX62BzBOQpCnTB50gubt@eqlB9Tc6Ssqk55QY8A3cdSWgIA@F6klSQGtIMc5pCMAjXGUUOmU…

Bubbler

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Kinda yeah, but I mean if your arrays are only numeric and do not contain circular references, it's much much simpler than that

pVC aecidiospore adduced

> do not contain circular references

you mean l.append(l)?

Bubbler

Something like that, yes

emanresu A

Circular references are pain

Especially when you try to flatten them

pVC aecidiospore adduced

> next_width = curr_width - len(']')

Bubbler

07:47

It should be as easy as your first homework for recursive functions

pVC aecidiospore adduced

why can it just do ... - 1?

Bubbler

To clearly show what the 1 actually means

dzaima

oh huh apparently i had bothered to handle reference cycles

pVC aecidiospore adduced

08:07

@Bubbler if so, i am currently breaking my head trying to make it

1 2
 3 4

^ i get an extra indent

Bubbler

Code?

Razetime

are you trying to do numpy style formatting?

or APL style

pVC aecidiospore adduced

apl style

wait a second

def astr(array):
    if not isinstance(array, list):
        return repr(array)

    s = ''

    spaces = ' ' * max([len(astr(a)) for a in array])

    i = 0
    for e in array:
        s += astr(e) + spaces
        i += 1
    s += '\n'

    return s

print(astr([
    [1, 2],
    [3, 4]]))

Bubbler

I don't see why you decided to add spaces after astr(e)

and why that many spaces

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Bubbler padding after numbers

Bubbler

08:17

Also, do you really fully understand APL style?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Bubbler n..no

^ that is for multi dimension?

Bubbler

And do you want to align columns or not?

pVC aecidiospore adduced

yes

ok i understand; my code is weird

Bubbler

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Yes, separate by one empty line to separate matrices (2d arrays), two empty lines between 3d arrays, etc

1. go through all 1d arrays in your input, keeping track of the width of each column, and format each 1d array accordingly to get an array of strings. Also calculate the number of dimensions of your array
2. recurse through your new array with "current dimension" as a 2nd arg, adding that many newlines between items

Razetime

why is i being updated and never used

pVC aecidiospore adduced

08:27

@Razetime lemme remove that

^ thats the new output

Razetime

a) use a pastebin for your code

pVC aecidiospore adduced

here

^ with that code

@Razetime ok

Bubbler

A minor opinion: anyone trying to write something serious should go through uni-level algorithms course first (or alternatively, reach purple on codeforces)

Razetime

you can assign d=depth(array) in the args

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Razetime oh you can do that?

Bubbler

08:30

No, it doesn't work in Python

pVC aecidiospore adduced

nope

Razetime

oh, well

Bubbler

You need to write a second function that passes the initial arg value

Razetime

is depth a builtin

how are you getting that

pVC aecidiospore adduced

here is updated code

@Razetime its all here

Bubbler

08:32

That...kinda adds newlines but you're still using spaces wrong

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Bubbler yes i know; now how do i do the spaces thing

i take the len of the largest item and then?

Razetime

you need to left justify the numbers in max(len(nums))

or right

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@dzaima pls add python support to paste

@Razetime how do i right justify

Razetime

that you'll have to fidn out

pVC aecidiospore adduced

let me clean up some code

Bubbler

08:38

s.rjust(width) but you should calculate the width

pVC aecidiospore adduced

here is the new result

so yeah the indentation and extra newlines should be resolved

and i think thats it

Bubbler

Quick full solution

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Bubbler very coool thx

Razetime

pygamer there are many problems

you should still learn from fixing them

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@Razetime ok then i will find them and try to fix them

Bubbler

08:51

Basically you need to split your function into three functions: one that computes column widths, another that recursively joins by newlines, and the third that calls the other two

Razetime

base case is a depth 1 array, not a scalar, which helps a bunch

pVC aecidiospore adduced

well this function for [1,2,[3,4]] gives:

1 2 [3, 4]

which is fine

i will see later if i can remove commas from it.

Bubbler

09:11

... If you allow non-uniform arrays then APL-style formatting gets 10x harder

@pVCaecidiosporeadduced Might as well suggest to use K-style formatting (which is one of the most simplistic formatting of arrays)

emanresu A

@lyxal You might like shelfbrain.com

lyxal

09:43

@emanresuA I see your shelf brain and raise you a thisworddoesnotexist.com

emanresu A

09:54

Not available as a book, though.

pxeger

10:27

> noun.
> douche l'endroit
> douche l·'·en·droit
>
> a songwriter's song, especially a man's song, that contains or contains a combination of rhyming beats and baroque lyrics
> "some of our main tracks have a rather douche l'endroit style, with two guitar-driven keys juxtaposed like guitar bass"

literally French for "shower the place"

> baroque lyrics

hmm

emanresu A

10:46

CIC: Create a string that, when hashed with SHA256 and base36'd, contains the string 'never gonna give you up'.

pxeger

What does I stand for?

emanresu A

Impossible

pxeger

Prove it.

emanresu A

(For the next few decades, at least.)

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@emanresuA experiment

emanresu A

10:58

Is that valid?

It's kinda sussy

and I said base36

Neil

11:17

No spaces in base 36...

emanresu A

Oh true

I'll accept nevergonnagiveyouup then.

dzaima

11:40

stupid thing

2

emanresu A

Ok, I was wrong.

dzaima

if it wasn't clear, i didn't do anything magical

emanresu A

@dzaima Oh, is it something to do with the alphabet field?

dzaima

it's pretty much all the alphabet field :)

emanresu A

Lol

dzaima

11:44

all i had to do was find a hash with 19 consecutive unique characters

Codidact Posts

New Posts - Challenges - Code Golf: Collatz conjecture; Count the tries to reach $1$

posted on September 14, 2021 by Mark Giraffe

This challenge is currently under beta release. If given enough positivity, it will remain here and stand as a fully released challenge. Otherwise, it will be deleted and put back ...

Aaron Miller

13:20

@WheatWizard Is this explaination still a work in progress?

Wheat Wizard

13:42

@AaronMiller Yes.

Aaron Miller

is there an ETA?

Wheat Wizard

Yes

Aaron Miller

:D

CMQ: Common monsters in RPGs, JRPGs, Tabletop RPGs, etc., e.g. Slimes, Dragons, etc.

pVC aecidiospore adduced

@AaronMiller dragoons

goons (enemies) and dragons

Browncat Programs

Dragoon is a word

Aaron Miller

13:46

Dragoon

Dragoons originally were a class of mounted infantry, who used horses for mobility, but dismounted to fight on foot. From the early 17th century onward, dragoons were increasingly also employed as conventional cavalry and trained for combat with swords and firearms from horseback. While their use goes back to the late 16th century, dragoon regiments were established in most European armies during the 17th and early 18th centuries; they provided greater mobility than regular infantry but were far less expensive than cavalry. The name reputedly derives from a type of firearm, called a dragon, which...

Browncat Programs

^

Aaron Miller

^

pVC aecidiospore adduced

OOF

Wheat Wizard

@AaronMiller rusałka

Draugr

Acid Gull

Rich Metal Beast

Anush

CMC make functionally equivalent golfed python code bpa.st/XLGA

Aaron Miller

15:02

Which is more useful: Overwriting the top of the stack with the second value in the stack, or overwriting the second value in the stack with the top of the stack?

caird coinheringaahing

Isn't the first just "pop; duplicate"?

Aaron Miller

yes, but this command is taking the place of the duplicate command.

pVC aecidiospore adduced

second is copy to a registor; pop stack; push registor twice

@AaronMiller second is longer soo idk

Aaron Miller

@AaronMiller You can't just duplicate physical objects, you have to transmute one into another, but I'm not sure which value should be transmuted into which value.

Browncat Programs

TBH those both sound useless

Oh if there's no duplicate command, the first

pVC aecidiospore adduced

15:13

@BrowncatPrograms yes one is a 2 function thing

Aaron Miller

@BrowncatPrograms Yeah you're probably right, cause that would let you just push a zero or something and then transmute it into the value you want

pVC aecidiospore adduced

CMQ: what functions should i vectorise for a stack based language??

like basic arithmetic

is vectorised modulo actually useful?

i have generic vectorise functions

hyper-neutrino

I want to unpin this soon so - mod office and put smokey there, or do nothing? I don't really care about whether or not we have a mod office; it might avoid having mod pings all the way up the transcript for us to handle but i don't really mind anyway; not sure about ww and joking

caird coinheringaahing

15:35

I don't mind either way. I think the main point should be, do we need a mod office, and again, I can see pros and cons

I know, not a helpful answer :P

pxeger

I think we should have one, and if it turns out that noone uses it and everything ends up still in TNB or whatever, we can just switch back and there's no loss

user41805

16:31

@cairdcoinheringaahing this was an interesting discussion. what conclusions can we take away from this? voting is bad for a golfing site?

caird coinheringaahing

I don't think it's especially interesting. There are two main points that I took away from that discussion: all answers on this site should make some effort to meet the winning criteria, rather than just being a place to demonstrate code; and that downvoting is overly vilified here, and that people feel obligated to an explanation for every downvote on their posts

Neither of those are especially new or hot takes

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing there is a certain kind of challenge for which this absolutist behaviour does absolutely no good. Ungolfed answer to Fizz Buzz? Sure, downvote and flag. This question? If I'm honest, downvoting a working answer to that type of question is just ridiculous

> all answers on this site should make some effort to meet the winning criteria, rather than just being a place to demonstrate code

user41805

well you're right that it's the same discussions all over again. i guess i really like talking about how se sucks for ppcg and we need a better place.

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger If I'm honest, probably the only thing I hate about this site is how vilified downvoting is. Downvoting should never be considered ridiculous. You may not agree with the reasons behind why the user cast their vote that way, but they're absolutely free to do so, and criticising people for downvoting for legitimate reasons is just being overly concerned about some number on a website

pxeger

Why all? I understand we don't want to encourage questions that are "just solve this code problem" and nothing else, because we're Code Golf, but for these few unanswered big questions, an implicit community consensus is typically reached that the scoring criterion is no longer important

caird coinheringaahing

16:47

Because it doesn't take much effort to meet a scoring criteria, and bey requiring it in all cases, we avoid people saying "Well, this answer wasn't golfed, so why does mine have to be?"

Seriously, removing whitespace and using single letter variable names is essentially no effort, and it's enough. If you can't be bothered to put in that final bit of effort, why should I upvote your answer, regardless of how impressive it is?

user41805

@pxeger an example, tetris in gol, which you could say wasn't really golfed, because the participants had a greater goal in mind than just tetris

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing Maybe it is "just being overly concerned about some number on a website", but my immediate reaction to the fact you [would?] have downvoted it is "wow, that's a bit mean", not because "big number make happy chemical", but much more importantly: downvoting, as a tool for criticism, heavily lacks nuance, and equating your responses to "this answer lacks a trivial piece of effort that I want it to have put in" and "this answer is offensive", and everything in between, is ridiculous.

caird coinheringaahing

Which is why I explained my downvote here in chat

pxeger

@cairdcoinheringaahing because overall, considered as the sum of its parts, its impact on the site is a net positive

When you suggest an obvious golfing improvement to a new user, you don't downvote just because the answer was imperfect

caird coinheringaahing

No, but I do downvote answers by new users that don't show any effort to golf their answer

There's a huge difference between missing a golf and outright saying in your answer "I know that it's a code-golf challenge, but I'm just going to ignore that"

pxeger

16:56

@cairdcoinheringaahing the typical answer by a new user is never such an interesting one as that one. If the Totally Cubular answer was posted by a new user, I think you shouldn't downvote it, because its value comes from the fact it was done at all

caird coinheringaahing

If it was posted by a new user, I'd leave a comment letting them know that answers here should make a basic effort to golf. If they then didn't fix that later on, I'd downvote. tjjfvi already knows that, so I skipped that comment

pxeger

Whereas most actual posts where new users don't golf their answers are not very interesting even when golfed: they often also don't add anything to the other answers

@cairdcoinheringaahing on such a complex answer as this, it only makes me dislike it more because it obscures the main part I care about: reading the code

caird coinheringaahing

@user41805 Unfortunately, and as much as we hate it, the HNQ is our lifeblood. Without it, on a separate site, we'd never have the same amount of activity

Aaron Miller

I'm not exactly sure where I stand on this topic, but I will say that my Vim BF and GoL answers were initially completely ungolfed, as I initially did them just for the fun of doing them, and then later golfed them.

(not that anybody noticed that they were ungolfed (for obvious reasons (Vim answers are hard to read (especially when they're really long (like mine are)))))

caird coinheringaahing

> "wow, that's a bit mean"

Ugh. I could go into an entire rant about how annoying that thinking is, but I suspect no one really wants to read that

pVC aecidiospore adduced

17:12

@AaronMiller englisp?

Aaron Miller

indeed (because parentheses are fun (at least I think so (you might not agree, though)))

Browncat Programs

CMQ: Favorite way of handling EOF in BF?

I personally like -1, how about y'all?

caird coinheringaahing

Program terminates at EOF :P

Browncat Programs

No change also seems like it could be fine, haven't used it much though

Baby_Boy

@AaronMiller yes (they are fun!(me too(I do agree(do you want to keep adding?))))

pxeger

17:29

@cairdcoinheringaahing can you at least see that it is hard not to have that emotional reaction

caird coinheringaahing

@pxeger Idk, I've never taken a downvote to be mean, more that something in my post isn't good / needs to improve. What annoys me is when people downvote and don't bother explaining why (which is why I try to always explain my downvotes)

Aaron Miller

^

Newly Featured Posts

17:50

23

Q: Totally Cubular

Create a program or function to unjumble a 9x9x9 cube of digits by rotating individual 3x3 cubes within it. This is similar to (but, I suspect, a bit harder than) my Flippin' Squares question. Input Input will be a 9x9x9 cube. I'm not going to be as strict over the input as I was last time, 3d...

code-golf 3d rubiks-cube

Strings are useless.

Transcript for