The Nineteenth Byte

13:15

Interesting that Worldbuilding's Sandbox has had a total of 312 questions posted from it. If we did their directory answer thing, it'd grow crazy large

exedraj

@BrowncatPrograms so it was you at the store that time

Dude coinheringaahing

I think that of all the SE sites that use Sandboxes, that might be the largest after us

exedraj

Instead of being productive tonight like I wanted to, I watched a playthrough of superliminal, even though I've already watched markiplier play it last year

Wonderful

PyGamer0

13:31

anyone heard of tpt

the powder toy

exedraj

Aw I thought you meant the Australian wealth management company: tptwealth.com.au :p

Guess you won't be committing tax evasion with me then :( :p

PyGamer0

oof

exedraj

I mean, you can if you want

@PyGamer0 Would you like to commit tax fraud with me? :p

PyGamer0

@exedraj no lol

exedraj

Sad.

PyGamer0

13:35

would anyone like to commit tax rod?

Browncat Programs

I would like to tax rods

Let's say $0.01 per rod, $0.02 for fancier ones

exedraj

@BrowncatPrograms okay Mr irs agent

user

Okay I'm gonna unignore y'all, I can't bear to be alone

pxeger

lol

exedraj

If a green cucumber doesn't have to pay taxes, why should i?

Browncat Programs

13:38

What the browncat programs didn't realize was that it was 1904, but the federal income tax wasn't established until 1913

pxeger

@exedraj why don't you turn yourself into a pickle to avoid tax?

exedraj

A Message to the IRS...

►

See

He just slams the door in the face of the irs

user

@user That might've been a mistake lol

TNB's incoherent as always

exedraj

Hey I'm only slightly incoherent tonight

pxeger

@user whl;aisudghpaiuwghaerp;iugbaerip;uhiuhaeliugaeliugraliugaer;igre;iugare;

exedraj

13:41

@user this is one of my better nights so leave me alone

user

@pxeger asfdjoiwe iaj;efhispdfausdf;ajiowe fiwaeuaef

exedraj

Fine then

user

@exedraj I shall respect your wishes

exedraj

I'll go sleep if y'all ain't commit tax evasion with me

o/

user

I'd commit tax evasion but I don't have an income :P

o/

pxeger

13:42

\o

exedraj

@user I mean neither do I

Browncat Programs

@user Neither do I wink wink (looks around for IRS agents)

exedraj

But see y'all

user

@AaronMiller Seconded

Dude coinheringaahing

9

Q: Tips for golfing in The Powder Toy

Have fun with this one, The Powder Toy is a interesting challenge for golf, especially with filt logic. The thing that makes TPT a challenge is the many many many many ways to approach a problem: Should I use Cellular Automaton rules, SWCH logic, Filt logic, subframe filt logic, and/or wall logi...

user

13:45

@BrowncatPrograms That's a good idea, although it's not too readable for humans, which is what I was going for (should've mentioned that in the CMC)

I'm just training classifiers (LogisticRegression, SVC, RandomForest) (they all have distinct names) and trying to store their results

Adám

13:58

Presenting: The Julia language bar.

3

hyper-neutrino

@emanresuA no particular reason

i changed my pfp because apparently "pixel art" is one of the sides in the pfp war now and so since i don't want to side with anyone i abandoned my pixel lambda pfp lol

Browncat Programs

Is there still a pfp war?

user

I hope not

Dude coinheringaahing

I hope not

hyper-neutrino

no

Browncat Programs

14:01

Good

user

I unignored y'all now, so I don't have any protection against c*ts

Dude coinheringaahing

I plan on changing my pfp back when I go back to caird tho, so y'all can enjoy the picture of my cat for another couple of weeks :P

hyper-neutrino

also i forgot new posts isn't a feed so i was wondering which mod 11'd its profile picture lol

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino ngl, I thought you did it until I remembered the Redwolf has the login details :P

hyper-neutrino

as for why specifically は, again no real reason i just think it looks nice and also it's what my username starts with

Bubbler

14:08

Haipaaaaa-

user

???

hyper-neutrino

ハイパーニュートリノ is how it's written IIRC

Unrelated String

@Adám I literally just got out of the first session of a class using Julia

@hyper-neutrino yeah that should be right

hyper-neutrino

just looked it up on jisho and hyper is ハイパー and neutrino is ニュートリノ (or 中性微子【ちゅうせいびし】apparently, lol) so that should be right

i like how は looks more than ハ tho :p

user

ハ looks like someone hanging upside down, は looks like a headless person holding a staff

hyper-neutrino

14:16

...interesting

user

That's what the psychologist said about me the other day too!

5

:P

Browncat Programs

@Dudecoinheringaahing So I'm The Redwolf now, huh? :p

Dude coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms ~~I meant "that"~~ Yes, do you see any other Redwolfs? :P

I can word good today

hyper-neutrino

wolf → wolfs

hmmmm

Browncat Programs

The plural of my name is redwolfs program :p

Like "surgeons general"

pxeger

14:24

redswolf programss

Dude coinheringaahing

The plural of "Redwolf" is definitely "Redwolfs". "Redwolves" is the plural of "Redwolve"

Browncat Programs

"To redwolve"

pxeger

The world doesn't redwolve around you, y'know

2

hyper-neutrino

that looks almost like an owo-ified version of "to revolve"

Dude coinheringaahing

CMC: Define "to redwolve" :P

hyper-neutrino

14:25

when one says "vyxal bad"

Dude coinheringaahing

I thought that was me. Redwolf complains about vyxal's flag usage :P

to redwolve: to express frustration at flags

Browncat Programs

A redwolf redwolves, but redwolfs redwolve

hyper-neutrino

14:38

just found this java code (yes this is in prod; it's in a file from work)

List<UserEntity> findTop500ByEmailContainsIgnoreCaseOrNameContainsIgnoreCaseOrGivenNameContainsIgnoreCaseOrFamilyNameContainsIgnoreCaseOrderByLastSeenDesc(String email, String name, String givenName, String familyName)

3

user

Did they accidentally move the method summary into the method name lol

hyper-neutrino

i mean i get it's because that's how the spring JPA thing works so you don't have to write the SQL query yourself but bruh

@user spring framework automatically turns that into a database query for you but you have to name it a specific way :p

user

Oh, that's weird

It can't use annotations?

Unrelated String

may as well just use a different language at that point

user

^

hyper-neutrino

14:41

may as well use a different language at any point lmao

Unrelated String

true

pxeger

lol

Browncat Programs

If you're gonna use Java, might as well make it worse

pxeger

also true

user

@hyper-neutrino Yes, y'all should use Scala!

hyper-neutrino

14:42

like this structure usually makes sense for example another method in the same function is findByEmailIgnoreCase(String email) but for more complex things it is quickly very ridiculous :p

user

If it uses reflection, can't it use annotations or something else rather than method names?

hyper-neutrino

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Unrelated String

learned some kotlin over the weekend because what better way to procrastinate on writing important emails and it's cool how java it is without having so many java problems

user

I love the contracts and smart casting

Scala is better than Kotlin in many ways but it lacks that

Unrelated String

smart casting definitely felt overly magical the first time i saw it but it's grown on me

hyper-neutrino

14:45

kotlin good bc you can have spaces in variable names

user

bruh

Browncat Programs

In reasonable languages we call those "underscores" :p

user

Scala literally lets you name methods !_bleh$_&#^#_$

hyper-neutrino

hmmm

Dude coinheringaahing

Imagine needing variables :P

user

14:46

This post made by SKI gang

Adám

@user Only ASCII‽

user

I think it lets you use Unicode

Adám

@hyper-neutrino How about zwsp?

user

@Adám Actually, it only allows certain Unicode characters directly. However, you can use backticks to put basically anything inside (except backticks themselves)

Browncat Programs

See that's really cursed imo

Why would you ever need something other than [a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_]*

user

14:58

Yeah, no one bothers abusing it

@BrowncatPrograms idk, maybe you're not an English speaker and prefer Chinese/French/whatever names or something

pxeger

@BrowncatPrograms for reserved words

user

That too, yeah

Browncat Programs

@user Those could be included too I guess

But...#!~@&$^*@&$^&# is never going to be a good variable name

user

It's not

But <*> would, as would :: or +: or ++ (all real method names)

Adám

$#!+ would be a nice variable though.

Browncat Programs

15:00

None of those seem like good names

user

Why not?

Browncat Programs

Unless operator overloading and variable names use the same identifier rules

user

There's no real operator overloading in Scala

Dude coinheringaahing

ngl, can't say I've ever wanted variables to have non-alphanumeric characters in them

Browncat Programs

^

Other than underscores ofc

user

15:01

They're not meant for variables anyway

Dude coinheringaahing

Except for preceding them with a dedicated symbol (e.g. $)

@BrowncatPrograms Personally, I can live with underscores, but I can understand people liking them

user

They're meant for methods so you can define operators like > or >> or /

No sane person names variables !!!!!!!!!!! anyway

Browncat Programs

Does scala have a different way of calling them other than xyz.+:(abc)

Unrelated String

haskell letting you put single quotes in identifiers for use as a prime symbol is nice

user

@BrowncatPrograms Yes, xyz +: abc

Browncat Programs

15:03

Oh, well that's reasonable then

Unrelated String

nice

Browncat Programs

Although I'd say a different syntax would be way better

user

There's almost always alphanumeric alternatives (append in this case)

@BrowncatPrograms (no one uses that syntax for operators btw, it's downright ugly)

@user (in fact, Scala 3 has deprecated such infix operators without an alternative alphanumeric name)

Unrelated String

lol

user

@BrowncatPrograms Do you really want mybigint.plus(myarray.append(foo.concatenate(bar)))?

(okay that example makes no sense but you know what I mean)

Browncat Programs

15:05

No, I think it should use a separate syntax for defining operator-like things

user

Why?

pxeger

@BrowncatPrograms oh like Haskell?

infixr/l?

Browncat Programs

@user No ugly backticks, and separation of clearly separate goals

Dude coinheringaahing

Personally I like the ability to just do infix op precedence (like Haskell I believe)

user

@BrowncatPrograms wdym, there's no backticks necessary when defining or using them

Unrelated String

15:06

yeah being able to define fixity and precedence is big in making custom operators worth having

Dude coinheringaahing

And I've never really been a fan of tying builtins to types

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing That's nice but also probably hell when you try to remember the precedence of each op though

Dude coinheringaahing

@user Then simplify your code, jeez :P

Unrelated String

@user you define it to make sense for what you use it for

Dude coinheringaahing

If you're trying to decipher 1+5%3$8?0<2!6 by remembering precedence, you're doing it wrong :P

user

15:08

@UnrelatedString Fair enough

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing e.g. bitwise operators should require parens IMO

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing If you're writing that code, you're doing it wrong :P

Unrelated String

i feel like non-shift bitwise operators should have multiplication-like precedence

Dude coinheringaahing

@Dudecoinheringaahing CMC: Does this do anything meaningful in your language of chocie? :P

pxeger

@user that's the point I think lol

Dude coinheringaahing

15:09

Outputs 126 in Jelly

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing K has entered the chat

Unrelated String

and then shift operators should have... higher precedence? i always forget which way precedence goes

pxeger

@UnrelatedString I can't even remember which way round high and low precedence mean

loose and tight make more sense to me

Unrelated String

yeah

Dude coinheringaahing

@Dudecoinheringaahing And why it outputs 126 is so bad :P

Unrelated String

15:11

i think looser = lower?

hyper-neutrino

higher precedence = it is calculated first = it binds more tightly

Unrelated String

yeah

in terms of parsing that makes sense but then you can also think of things which bind less tightly as governing larger swathes of an expression

Dude coinheringaahing

It's print((1 + (if {8} then {5} else {1%3})) > 0); print(2!); print(6) :P

Unrelated String

so it's super easy to get mixed up

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger is that not 4 ellipses

pxeger

15:13

yes lol

hyper-neutrino

well done :p

PyGamer0

in Vyxal, 48 secs ago, by PyGamer0

also i am JoKing's sock

Dude coinheringaahing

@PyGamer0 Nah, I don't believe you, you're joking :P

Unrelated String

i keep leaving this tab open forgetting what pfp i have

hyper-neutrino

several times while i had my catperson pfp(s) last night i got confused by my absence from the user list :p this pfp is similar enough to my lambda pfp that i can recognize it

Unrelated String

15:24

lol

user

I can't get it out of my head now that hyper is a headless old man with a walking stick or something

Unrelated String

yeah it's actually super easy to recognize as being in the same spirit

dark border, dark symbol, white background

hyper-neutrino

@user well, i'll take suggestions for a different character :p

Unrelated String

wait is that diacritic actually called a dakuon

i've always heard dakuten

hyper-neutrino

wait wot

i've always heard dakuten as well

Unrelated String

15:27

what is that pdf on then

user

What about that pa thing?

Unrelated String

handakuten

user

It looks like a headful old man with a staff

hyper-neutrino

> The following table summarizes the phonetic shifts indicated by the dakuten and handakuten. Literally, syllables with dakuten are "muddy sounds" (濁音, dakuon), while those without are "clear sounds" (清音, seion). However, the handakuten (lit. "half-muddy mark") does not follow this pattern.

(from wikipedia)

Unrelated String

ah

so the dakuten indicates dakuon

hyper-neutrino

15:28

yep :p

Unrelated String

also

@hyper-neutrino ゐ

the obsolete wi hiragana

hyper-neutrino

huh, don't think i've ever seen that before

Unrelated String

it probably doesn't exist outside of historical texts

Browncat Programs

15:44

I've gone to CS class twice and I'm already more than 10% of the way done with the year's assignments :p

Unrelated String

lol

Browncat Programs

And they still haven't taught us about if/else, loops, functions, classes, or any of that useless stuff

pxeger

16:04

@BrowncatPrograms are you using nothing but goto?

(and don't worry, they won't teach you about classes; they're a PhD-level concept)

Browncat Programs

No, I'm using no control flow at all. That's too a d v a n c e d

pxeger

I remember doing my whole class's assignments in one line each (and this was Python which isn't always too easy to put in one line)

Browncat Programs

This has so many obviously invalid deleted answers lol

user

16:20

So many interpreted languages

Adám

Do you get a 404 from abrudz.github.io/tasks?

pxeger

no

Aaron Miller

no

Adám

Ugh, cacheing, I guess.

Thanks.

How do I get around the cache‽

Browncat Programs

Fun fact: The number 255 appears more often in JS answers than 256

Adám

16:28

That's to be expected.

pxeger

because it's used as a bitmask?

Adám

probably 15 more than 16 too, and 127 more than 128.

Browncat Programs

Weirdly, numbers like 61, 33, 29, or 97 appear more often than either

Dude coinheringaahing

97 is A in ascii

Browncat Programs

(list)

@Dudecoinheringaahing Isn't it lowercase a?

Dude coinheringaahing

16:30

One of them :P

user

@Adám Use a private window maybe?

Dude coinheringaahing

61 is A, right?

user

Or F5

@Dudecoinheringaahing 65, right?

pxeger

yes 65

Dude coinheringaahing

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

user

16:31

Yeah

pxeger

man ascii > all websites

Browncat Programs

Man ASCII is way more masculine than UTF-8

Dude coinheringaahing

@pxeger I just guess random numbers and do print(chr(x)) :P

hyper-neutrino

local programmer has never heard of ord /s

pxeger

lambda c:[c==chr(x)for x in range(256)][0]

Dude coinheringaahing

16:34

@hyper-neutrino That's too efficient :P

CMC: Implement BogoSearch. Given an integer and a list, find the index of the integer in the list (it will always be in the list) by randomly choosing an index and seeing if that's the integer :P

Browncat Programs

@Adám 16 and 128 are both more common

Aaron Miller

256rC``j

Browncat Programs

@Dudecoinheringaahing Better way to do it: Bogosort by distance to the integer, then take the last item :p

Dude coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Can you even bogosort by a key? :P

Browncat Programs

Why not?

Dude coinheringaahing

16:37

I suppose you change the check to issorted(list, key)

Browncat Programs

Also, imagine not calling it a comparator :p

Aaron Miller

When I need to find the ord of a character X, I just do \XC

Dude coinheringaahing

A key and a comparator (cmp) are different things :P

Browncat Programs

Wait what

Dude coinheringaahing

cmp compares two items to determine their order (what I think JS's sort does), a key maps each item to a value, and that value is used to sort the item (what Python's sorted does)

hyper-neutrino

16:39

from random import*;f=lambda a,x:i if a[(i:=randint(1,len(a))-1)]==x else f(a,x)

Browncat Programs

Ohhh

Yeah that makes sense

A key can easily be made into a comparator though, comparator = (a, b) => key(a) - key(b)

hyper-neutrino

yeah. not vice versa tho

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino if x==a[(i:=randint(1,len(a))-1)]else saves a byte

hyper-neutrino

python has functools.key_to_cmp which uses some rather cursed methods

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing github.com/python/cpython/blob/3.9/Lib/functools.py#L206

Browncat Programs

16:40

@hyper-neutrino Just sort the array with the comparator and take the indices :p

pxeger

you can convert between them easily ^

@hyper-neutrino ninja'd dammit

hyper-neutrino

from random import*;f=lambda a,x:f(a,x)if x-a[(i:=randint(1,len(a))-1)]else i

should work

Adám

@Dudecoinheringaahing APL: {⍺=⍵⊃⍨i←?≢⍵:i⋄⍺∇⍵}

pxeger

CMC: valid Python code containing the most unique symbol characters in a row (e.g. -~-x is 2) (no strings or comments allowed)

Dude coinheringaahing

What's a "symbol character"?

Razetime

16:45

just need to copypaste a random symbolic python answer

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing !"#$%&'()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\]^`{|}~

except since no comments, not "#'

and ?$ are never valid Python

Browncat Programs

Is there any intuitive reason Jelly's parsing/chaining rules work the way they do?

hyper-neutrino

by valid do you just mean syntactically valid

like can i do 2@3 even though that's not gonna work

Dude coinheringaahing

Does it have to be completely error free, or just syntaxically valid ninja'd

Browncat Programs

@BrowncatPrograms Or do you just memorize what all the different patterns (like dyad-dyad-nilad) do?

Dude coinheringaahing

16:47

@BrowncatPrograms They're modelled heavily on mathematical notation and what is golfiest

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing completely error-free (but setup code to make it not error is allowed)

also I ~~forgot~~ have decided _ should count as a symbol character

hyper-neutrino

oh that will definitely help

does ` do anything lol

pxeger

not in Py3

Browncat Programs

How does Jelly determine the arity of the main link? E.g., would 1++2 be monadic or dyadic?

pxeger

but you can use Py2 instead if you want

hyper-neutrino

16:48

depends on the arity it's called with

Dude coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms Sort of. Some of them, such as +,_ being (x + y) , (x _ y) intuitively makes sense for me, as do stuff like dyad,nilad (how else would you interpret it?). Others, you have to remember

pxeger

@BrowncatPrograms depends on the number of inputs given

hyper-neutrino

the main/last link's arity is just the number of arguments (capped at 2)

Browncat Programs

Oh huh

Dude coinheringaahing

@BrowncatPrograms That would always be monadic (given an argument), but normally it depends on whether its passed 0/1/2 arguments

Browncat Programs

16:49

That's interesting

Aaron Miller

@pxeger ''!='"!=$%&()*+,-./:;<=>?@[\]^`{|}~'

hyper-neutrino

its behavior does change depending on arity tho

> no strings

Aaron Miller

oh

pxeger

well you can have strings, but the characters in them don't count

hyper-neutrino

bruh

Aaron Miller

16:50

what about the string delimiters?

e.g. an empty string

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino No? 1++2 will always be (1+w)+2, or (1+l)+2, where w is the monadic argument, and l is the left argument

Try it online!

hyper-neutrino

well if it's niladic then it's ++2 called on 1 :p

Dude coinheringaahing

@pxeger 15: `()<{_}>[]!=+~-5` (Python 2)

16: a;`()<{_}>[]!=+~-5`

hyper-neutrino

python 3, 16: (*{~+-_,})[:]!=. (surrounding code: f(*{~+-_,})[:]!=..., setup code: tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/7/X1lBUUlZRVVNXUNTS1tHV0/…)

Dude coinheringaahing

Requires a and _ to be defined (as anything) before

Can we have whitespace in the middle @pxeger?

pxeger

16:57

@Dudecoinheringaahing hmm yes but I think that should be a different category

@Dudecoinheringaahing you can put ... in the ()

Dude coinheringaahing

Not in Py 2

Ellipsis doesn't exist

pxeger

really?

TIL

Dude coinheringaahing

Try it online!

I think I have 18, but I think I can get 19 :P

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