The Nineteenth Byte

DLosc

15:14

@Wezl Shrugging cat-person?

Wezl

ya

DLosc

I approve >(^_^)<

Wezl

CMC: Change your profile picture to a cat for a week

DLosc

Do tigers count?

user

@Wezl My new Piet-based language that conveniently happens to interpret my current pfp as a cat program: 0

Wezl

15:23

yes, tigers count

user

Do cat programs?

Wezl

yes, sometimes

user

Who's Art?

Wezl

>:|

pxeger

@Wezl esolangs.org/wiki/But_Is_It_Art%3F

damn, sneaky edit ninja

Dude coinheringaahing

15:45

Anyone know any good software/websites/whatever for creating images of binary trees?

pxeger

Yes

Dude coinheringaahing

Ah good :P

pxeger

lmfao

but I don't unfortunately

Dude coinheringaahing

Damn, I got bamboozled :(

pxeger

no, you misphrased your question :þ

DLosc

15:47

@Dudecoinheringaahing Way back in the day, I used Graphviz for making pictures of parse trees. I guess it was pretty good.

Dude coinheringaahing

Downloading new software? The lengths I go to make a challenge easy to understand :P

pxeger

I hate my brain so much

Dude coinheringaahing

sus

pxeger

it looks like that silicate-propellant character, inside itself, and simultaneously, a misshapen penis

and yet it is literally 3 ellipses and 5 arrows

pattern recognition and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race

Dude coinheringaahing

the human race has been a disaster for the human race

DLosc

15:52

@pxeger Coyote agrees with you!

pxeger

@DLosc sounds like something the Ministry of Love would say

the current starboard will make almost no sense to an outsider

5

whoever starred that, why‽ It's just made the starboard easier to understand!

Wezl

CMQ: should saving a text file be an undoable action?

Adám

@Wezl Undoing would what? Restore the previous state of the file? Delete it if it wasn't there before?

Aaron Miller

@pxeger the current starboard will make almost no sense ~~to an outsider~~

FTFY

in ＴｈｅＭｏｓｔＣｕｒｓｅｄＲｏｏｍ, 2 mins ago, by Aaron Miller

First draft of the (currently non-functioning) interpreter: https://amiller42.github.io/Cursed-Language

pxeger

@Wezl it's extrinsically modifiable state, so that doesn't sound like a good idea

Dude coinheringaahing

16:05

@AaronMiller Did you learn web design in 2005 and haven't looked at a website since? :P

2

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing I'm guessing that's the idea

Dude coinheringaahing

Wait, you're telling me that a cursed programming language is supposed to have a cursed interpreter? :P

Aaron Miller

@Dudecoinheringaahing Who said I know anything about website design? :p

The images came from here, which is probably the best bootstrap theme I've ever seen.

user

@pxeger ???

Aaron Miller

Enter some stuff in the codebox. Make sure to put in more lines than can fit, and see what happens.

Dude coinheringaahing

16:11

..black on black, with spell check?

Is there such thing as too cursed? :P

user

Nice, it overflows

@Dudecoinheringaahing Impossible

Aaron Miller

@Dudecoinheringaahing Lol, the black on black was an accident, I forgot I have dark mode on, so it looks white on black for me

Dude coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller You should make the color of the code randomly change, but only the code outside of the black box :P

Aaron Miller

+1

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing Dark mode is good for the eyes

Dude coinheringaahing

16:15

Oh, and the font should jarring switch between Comic Sans and a serif font at random letters :P

Similar to Times New Bastard

user

Why not have a different font for each letter?

Dude coinheringaahing

Font consistency, even when that font is Comic Sans, is too vanilla :P

pxeger

@user look carefully at the picture

Dude coinheringaahing

@user It has an oval in the middle of a shape, it's an amogus

user

Oh lol

Aaron Miller

16:18

@Dudecoinheringaahing W𝐨𝐰 𝐭𝐡𝐢s 𝐟𝐨𝐧𝐭 i𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 g𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬t 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐈 𝐡𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫 𝐬e𝐞𝐧 𝐢𝐧 m𝐲 𝐥𝐢𝐟𝐞. 𝐈𝐭'𝐬 a𝐛𝐬𝐨𝐥𝐮𝐭e𝐥𝐲 𝐢𝐧𝐜r𝐞𝐝𝐢𝐛𝐥𝐞.

user

16:32

Argh, wrong room

@Dudecoinheringaahing Can you move these to the cursed language room?

DLosc

@AaronMiller Amazing

Dude coinheringaahing

@user → 4 messages moved to ＴｈｅＭｏｓｔＣｕｒｓｅｄＲｏｏｍ status-completed

Aaron Miller

I made the buttons animated, and they're so much more cursed than I thought they'd be

Dude coinheringaahing

I gave up trying to get any tree software/programs, so I'm doing it by hand with shapes and text boxes in Powerpoint :P

pxeger

@Dudecoinheringaahing PowerPoint is unironically my go-to graphic design software

Dude coinheringaahing

16:36

I use it far more than I should to manipulate images :P

pxeger

e.g. the ATO logo (masterpiece of craftsmanship that it is) was made with it

@Dudecoinheringaahing but do you use excel and only excel as a calculator?

Dude coinheringaahing

No, I use google as a calculator

Redwolf Programs

Hmm, not sure if my java is abstract enough. I should abstract away my abstractions and use JS instead.

pxeger

@RedwolfPrograms nah, you should program in Ant

user

If you're not using ten packages and at least one class named FactoryConsumerProducerSupplierBuilder, are you even writing Java? :P

pxeger

16:38

(no joke, the first programming language I tried to make used XML)

user

@pxeger Gradle gang rise up!

pxeger

@user sbt >>>

user

^

Didn't think anyone else here used sbt lol

Dude coinheringaahing

@user If you don't have a HelloWorldFactoryBuilderFactory package, which contains a FactoryClassFactoryFactoryBuilderFactory class, your Java is basically Jelly

user

And at that point you might as well just go use Jelly itself

Dude coinheringaahing

16:41

Jelly would probably be more readable :P

user

._.

pxeger

In just a week of actively using exedraj's Vyxal documentation, I've started to put awful jokes into serious documentation...

user

Link?

pxeger

proprietary sorry

user

3 hours ago, by Redwolf Programs

We must immediately quarantine you, the Lyxalitis infection has gone too far

pxeger

16:43

> However, [project], in its eternal quest for ultimate [genre] supremacy, does things differently...

^ a real sentence I nearly committed to (what could have ended up in) production

user

Nothing wrong with a couple jokes here or there even in serious stuff

Aaron Miller

@pxeger You say that like it's a bad thing.

pxeger

@user I don't think this would have been at all appropriate

user

idk, documentation is a lot easier to digest for e when it's humorous/humourous and not dry

Dude coinheringaahing

@pxeger If you have any links in your docs, you need to do the "hidden rickroll": [examp](actual link)[l](rickroll)[e text](actual link). exam p le text

Redwolf Programs

16:47

TNB likes to be mean to JS, but compared to its namesake it's the most wonderful language ever

Dude coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms We like to be mean to most languages tbh :P

user

Oh come on ddg

pxeger

put #.jpg at the end of the url

user

Ah, thanks

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms Ehh... that's putting it too strongly. :P Though I do know which one I'd rather use.

user

16:49

Java isn't a bad language at all once you get to know it. In contrast, JS seems like an okay language until you try to do anything

Redwolf Programs

Other way around imo

pxeger

@user I'd almost say it's the other way round actually

user

JS is great for scripting, but I'd never use it on anything bigger than the smallest of projects

@RedwolfPrograms How so?

Aaron Miller

@user Define "smallest"

Redwolf Programs

JS has a lot of very obvious issues, but once you learn the right way to do stuff it's pretty nice

user

16:50

@AaronMiller Anything beyond three files

DLosc

@Wezl Begun, the week of cat has. (I assume my chat picture will update in a few minutes.)

Redwolf Programs

So far, everything I've learned about Java makes me dislike it more :p

DLosc

@user [am currently working on a project with four JavaScript files]

pxeger

@user when you hear about JavaScript, all you hear is the weak typing stuff, but if you write your code well so that everything is basically type-safe it's not a problem

Aaron Miller

Hmm... lexer.js, parser.js, interpreter.js I guess we're good to keep working on Ｃｕｒｓｅｄ then!

Redwolf Programs

16:52

@user Multi-file JS projects are one of its biggest issues

user

idk about you, but I learned JS before Java, wrote lots of spaghetti code, and loved it then. When I had to learn Java, it was like writing with my left hand - static typing sucked. In time, though, I came to see JS for the ugly mess it was and Java for the huge but somewhat clean language it was

@AaronMiller Wait they're JS?

Aww, I thought we were going to use TS

Aaron Miller

We are

It compiles to JS, so I skipped ahead

user

@pxeger It's not just that, the lack of static typing is also a problem. Linters can only do so much

DLosc

Now, I will say that using JS for anything that's not meant to run in a web browser is not my speed. Sorry, Node fans.

user

@AaronMiller bruh

Redwolf Programs

16:54

@user Quite a few languages aren't statically typed

user

I've found myself passing arrays or integers instead of strings many times before because there wasn't a compiler to yell at me (and the linter couldn't tell because I was throwing it into an object that got sent into a template)

Redwolf Programs

That's not a flaw, it's a design choice

Just use TS if you need static typing

user

Static typing is a necessity imho if you're going to have a robust application

pxeger

@user > When I had to learn Java, it was like writing with my left hand - static typing sucked.

static typing still kinda sucks

user

I'm a righty

@pxeger Not really

Now I'm about 1.1 times more sure that everything won't crash and burn

Redwolf Programs

16:55

I never really have problems relating to type honestly

user

And I know this isn't a language feature per se, but IntelliJ is absolutely amazing

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms The thing that bothers me currently is that the typeof an array is "object". :/ I'd really like to be able to use typeof to distinguish arrays from other objects. Oh well.

Redwolf Programs

Array.isArray ftw

pxeger

@user static typing doesn't have to suck - except I'm yet to see a statically-typed language that is both good at inferring types and practical in all other ways

user

Haskell? Rust?

Redwolf Programs

16:56

typeof is a horrible mess though, I hardly use it for anything. If I need it, I'll make a wrapper than properly handles null/arrays/other stuff

Wezl

@DLosc great! which of these cats is better? (or is the website not accessible?)

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms As in, if (Array.isArray(argument))?

user

@pxeger I'd say Scala but it's single pass and doesn't support types for recursive methods (even if it's possible to infer them)

DLosc

@Wezl The one with circles for eyes.

pxeger

@user I don't consider Haskell practical because of its batshit IO rules (IMO lazy languages seem like a good idea but they really aren't) and excessive mathematical jargon

user

16:57

What about Elm?

pxeger

and Rust's type inference isn't good enough for me

DLosc

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT :P

5

pxeger

@user never tried it actually, but isn't it tightly coupled to writing web UIs? (and therefore not useful for anything else)

Redwolf Programs

@DLosc Yes (sometimes I just make a typeof wrapper than includes that check and returns "array")

user

@pxeger Yeah

Wezl

16:58

@DLosc thanks, now which one after reloading?

pxeger

@RedwolfPrograms and checks for the typeof null === "object" issue, presumably?

DLosc

@Wezl Yes

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger Yeah (why'd you wrap null in (), btw?)

user

@pxeger Do you have an example of the kind of type inference you want? I've never worked on much "real life" code, so can't think of anything too bad about Java or Scala's type inference, basic as they are

Neil

@Adám One to hold the giraffe and the other to fill the bathtub with brightly colored machine tools.

pxeger

16:59

@RedwolfPrograms I was thinking too hard about sizeof in C

even though they're totally unrelated lol

DLosc

@RedwolfPrograms It took me a long time to realize typeof was an operator and not a function. In Python, type is a function.

Wezl

@DLosc ? does reloading give two cats, one with square and one with round linejoins?

pxeger

@Neil is your internet speed measured in nibbles per heat-death-of-the-universe? I feel like you exclusively reply to 1-day+-old messages

user

It's funnier that way

DLosc

@Wezl I guess so--I didn't see a difference until you pointed it out. ;) I don't have a preference, though it looks like some of the corners on the non-rounded picture are still rounded?

Redwolf Programs

17:02

@pxeger They have an internet speed of 1 mbps, where the "m" is "milli" :p

Wezl

@DLosc yeah, that's because the head is made of two separate lines which means the linecap instead of linejoin takes effect

ig I'll do stroke-linejoin="round" for consistency

pxeger

@Wezl I prefer the round ones

Neil

@pxeger My Internet speed was effectively zero for several days, so I'm still catching up

pxeger

ah ok lol

Redwolf Programs

Math.abs = (x) => Math.sqrt(Math.pow(x, 2))

Neil

17:08

@AaronMiller [last but one line] Practise, practise, practise!

Dude coinheringaahing

Ok, so we still haven't decided on a time for LYAL. Current suggestions are 0/12 UTC, 6/18 UTC or 0/8/16 UTC

Wezl

tmw code formatting makes something that would normally be easy but that is hard because you're writing xml by hand for no good reason, easier

DLosc

@Dudecoinheringaahing 0 UTC works for me most days. 16 & 18 UTC work for me some Saturdays. 12 UTC would be a stretch but might work on weekends.

@Wezl That's... good? I think? I need some syntax highlighting for your English. :P

Wezl

@Wezl and you silently pat yourself on the back because you know that noone's ever going to read your xml but your good practice miraculously survives

@DLosc I'm glad I only had to write it

Wezl

17:31

@Wezl now I hope stackexchange will wait a week before dying out

Dude coinheringaahing

What's the most idiomatic way to test if something is a float in Haskell? i mod 1 == 0?

Wezl

lol when do you have to tell if something is a float in a strongly typed language

DLosc

@Wezl

(tm)(w ((code formatting) makes (something (that ((would [normally] be) easy)) but (that (is hard (because (you('re writing) xml (by hand) (for (no (good reason)))))))) easier))

Dude coinheringaahing

@Wezl When I'm doing division between integers :P

pxeger

17:48

@Dudecoinheringaahing depending on the day, some of 8/12/18/16 UTC would work (and 6 UTC would work on weekends during summer)

but honestly I think it's better if the teacher schedules each event indivdually

Interesting, everything on the starboard is either by me or starred by me

nvm, I'll make an actual meta post

DLosc

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing You'd know it's a float at compile-time, I guess

pxeger

@user ~~but without adding type annotations or whatever~~ nvm, this is "idiomatic" not golf

@Dudecoinheringaahing using either an algebraic type data Number = Float Float | Int Int and pattern matching, or with explicit specialisations of a function

user

""idiomatic""?

@pxeger Probably something like data Number = Float Float | Integer Integer | ...

Wezl

^^^

Dude coinheringaahing

18:05

I just looked it up and found a SO answer :P

Cause apparently, Haskell's mod doesn't work on floats :/

user

Yeah, it only works on Integrals

mod' should do the job

pxeger

~~time to petition add a typeof function to Prelude~~

New Posts

0

Q: What's the deal with these two "tips for creating a golfing language" questions?

We currently have two questions asking for tips about golfing languages: Tips for making a golfing language (posted in 2017) is closed for lack of focus, with +10/-3 and no answers Tips for Creating/Maintaining a Golfing Language (posted in 2020) is open and much better received, with +37/0 and...

Dude coinheringaahing

@user Imagine not using i == fromInteger (round i)

user

Imagine not using isInt x n = (round $ 10^(fromIntegral n)*(x-(fromIntegral $ round x)))==0

Redwolf Programs

18:33

Problem: Climate change is making global temperatures increase
Problem: Nuclear war would cause a massive decrease in global temperatures

Solution: I think we all know what to do

Dude coinheringaahing

Futurama beat you to the punch years ago :P

DLosc

Yes, for some definition of "soul."
Infinitely many.
Depends whether the guards keep getting paid.
No, but it might be warm-blooded.
Leg.
The supposition is about aardedvarks while the question is about aardvarks, so I'm gonna say the supposition doesn't matter and the answer is "Aardvarks aren't cannibals."
The Lincoln Tunnel.
https://youtu.be/dvdrCPr3gDQ?t=66

user

Problem: Overpopulation is causing pollution
Problem: There is a shortage of food due to overpopulation

Solution: I think we all know what to do

AviFS

@pxeger Confirmed ; )

It's sad to feel an outsider...

ngn

@RedwolfPrograms @user make a new programming language?

DLosc

18:41

@AviFS When I first come into the Nineteenth Byte, I often click several of the starred comments to see what the context was. Sometimes it still doesn't make sense. [shrug]

AviFS

@Dudecoinheringaahing Lmao, this interpreter is too good

@DLosc It's definitely a struggle.

What happened to my ol' friend Snoopy?

(gtg)

DLosc

3 hours ago, by Wezl

CMC: Change your profile picture to a cat for a week

Redwolf Programs

I won't change it to a cat, but I'll change mine to a cat paw :p

AviFS

@DLosc Phew! Deep breathing exercises It's just a week Avi, it's just a week Avi, it's just a week Avi...

Dude coinheringaahing

@DLosc Didn't y'all hear? It's CGCC catboy/catgirl week :P

12

user

18:46

No.
23 (determined experimentally).
Yes, he left very specific instructions to his parakeet.
Mine isn't, at least. No hair or milk, and it lays eggs.
Vibranium.
Mine ate just one, itself. (btw, got any spare aardedvarks?)
Dragon.
It's very hard to steer, takes years of practice to master it. Can't trust any ordinary pirate to ride it properly, now, can I?

AviFS

Everything will be back to normal Avi, everything will be okay Avi

2

user

Wait what

Dude coinheringaahing

Is there a gender-neutral form of catboy/catgirl?

user

I want everything to be everything, not "okay Avi"

@Dudecoinheringaahing cat

Dude coinheringaahing

@user ...no :P

DLosc

18:47

@Dudecoinheringaahing catyoungperson

user

idk maybe catperson should do fine

Apparently catboys/catgirls do not appreciate being called furries

Dude coinheringaahing

That's cause they aren't

user

> Covered with, wearing, or trimmed with fur.

Cat ears have fur

DLosc

The gender-neutral form is particularly appropriate when discussing my new (temporary (probably)) profile pic, since I am male but the character is female.

Dude coinheringaahing

I think catboy/catgirl works best. Catperson sounds weird

user

18:50

But I can refer to the pfp (separately) as a catgirl and just you as a catboy, right?

AviFS

@user Sorry user, we don't do simply 'okay' around here

Dude coinheringaahing

@AviFS Yeah, K is the LOTM, so we do oK

user

groans

AviFS

lmao

DLosc

@user Yup >^_^<

AviFS

18:51

@Dudecoinheringaahing We're waiting on the cat pfp

user

I wish English had only gender-neutral nouns and pronouns and it was acceptable to substitute boy/girl/man/woman with "person"

@AviFS Dude's a dog person, it'd be treacherous to have a cat pfp

Dude coinheringaahing

I might have a picture of my cat lying around I can use, hang on :P

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing Stay pure, don't become a catgirl! Remember, dogs are superior and cats are evil!

Dude coinheringaahing

> become a catgirl

AviFS

@Dudecoinheringaahing Speaking of changes which threaten TNB's very existence, when do we get our old buddy 'caird' back?

DLosc

18:52

@user The egg-laying isn't a knock-down argument, but the lack of milk probably is.

Dude coinheringaahing

..yes. "become". Implying I'm not already :P

user

@Dudecoinheringaahing You know what I mean

Don't change your pfps to cats

DLosc

@user Rawr >:(

hyper-neutrino

regarding the two tips for making languages, I think we should just reclose the old one as a dupe since even with low visibility it takes me like 5 seconds to do it and i don't think there's any downside

Dude coinheringaahing

@AviFS Hang on, let me check

hyper-neutrino

18:53

should be sept 3rd right?

user

@DLosc You used to be a dogboy, DLosc, you've betrayed all dogkind

Okay, that sounds weird

Doggirl sounds even weirder

@hyper-neutrino +1

Redwolf Programs

I made my pfp a cat's paw, not sure if it's good or not

I haven't seen it at proper zoom :p

user

Thought it was a wolf

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Yep, at 2:41

Redwolf Programs

@user Just changed it

user

18:55

Ah

AviFS

@Dudecoinheringaahing What, why & how?

Dude coinheringaahing

@AviFS You can only change your username every 30 days

AviFS

That's a disappointingly logical reason.

hyper-neutrino

unless someone really wants it to be something else earlier; then i'll usually do it, since it takes me as little effort as the user themselves to edit their profile

Dude coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Aww, I wanted to use my hammer :P

Redwolf Programs

18:57

@hyper-neutrino Can you profile refresh me(ow)?

DLosc

@user Cats can be both evil and superior. >:)

Dude coinheringaahing

@DLosc owo

hyper-neutrino

@RedwolfPrograms nothing changed I don't think?

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms The colors look great. I like it a lot!

hyper-neutrino

your profile picture just looks paler with some pink in the middle; did you change something after that again

Redwolf Programs

18:58

Oh, it might've already been visible then

AviFS

Not exactly a redwolf any more, though...

hyper-neutrino

i already refreshed it earlier lol

Redwolf Programs

I was saving this for when I promised I'd change my name to "browncat programs"

AviFS

How about brinkwolf?

brown+pink = Brinkwolf

Redwolf Programs

Actually I might as well become browncat programs for a little while

AviFS

18:59

Alternatively, Pownwolf

DLosc

Next up: Change your profile picture to a thylacine

Redwolf Programs

Okay, changed my name

Dude coinheringaahing

@AviFS That may be mispronounced in an unfortunate way

AviFS

Or perhaps Brownkwolf : p

Redwolf Programs

Apr 8 at 0:36, by Redwolf Programs

Still considering becoming Browncat Programs for a few months

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